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09-11-2018, 07:18 AM | #1 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
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Mostly countries like Phillipines, Indonesia, France and here Brazil broadcast these shows in the 80's and 90's however, could had a audience for japanese tokusatsu in America as well ?
Last edited by Sevenlima; 09-12-2018 at 12:41 PM.. |
09-11-2018, 08:12 AM | #2 |
Bat Hero
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 296
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On television, likely not. Though I'm not sure. Hasn't there been attempts for a Toku-based television channel here in the United States? I forget.
Nevertheless, isn't the "established" fanbase we have here already torrenting and direct downloading enough? |
09-11-2018, 07:55 PM | #3 |
天心の英雄たち
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Maryland
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it makes me feel like a cheesy hipster to say it, but I like that it's not a huge and popular thing. It oddly makes it more special that way.
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09-11-2018, 08:02 PM | #4 |
Tokusatsu Hero
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Maryland
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We did have Toku air in Hawaii and the west coast in the 70s and 80s before. Android Kikaider is a huge icon for people in Hawaii in their 40s-60s that watched it back in the day. So an audience for Japanese effect shows in America is not possible. I feel like it is too late now since we have Streaming for these shows now with CR and Amazon Prime.
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09-11-2018, 08:07 PM | #5 |
天心の英雄たち
Join Date: Oct 2017
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Americans (imo) are really spoiled by big budgets and big effects too. I know a few people I've tried to get to watch this stuff all just think it looks cheap.
They don't appreciate plot and story and characters they just want stuff to look expensive. I have managed to get a couple to start their own Toku journey though and some are watching Godzillas and Kamen Rider. I got a bunch of people to watch Akibaranger but.....Malshina is so sexy she sort of sells the show. 100% everyone who watched it started and stayed watching it for Malshina and only after a bunch of episodes realized they were really enjoying the show and not just Malshina. Malshina = sexy gateway drug to Toku. Hahahaha |
09-12-2018, 01:27 AM | #6 |
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Quote:
Americans (imo) are really spoiled by big budgets and big effects too. I know a few people I've tried to get to watch this stuff all just think it looks cheap.
They don't appreciate plot and story and characters they just want stuff to look expensive. I have managed to get a couple to start their own Toku journey though and some are watching Godzillas and Kamen Rider. Anyways, I think toku has too niche of an appeal for the US these days. In the 60s and 70s we had stuff like the old Batman series and Star Trek, so these shows fit in right alongside them. That isn't really the case anymore. Power Rangers nostalgia also plays a huge part. People see something remotely like this and just assume it's Power Rangers. It doesn't help that Power Rangers hasn't been the best lately. Maybe Hasbro can change that? Still, overall, I'm with KaijuUltraFan on this one: I don't mind that it's pretty obscure.
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09-12-2018, 06:42 AM | #7 |
天心の英雄たち
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Ok fine, "in my experience" they didn't care about plot and story because they couldn't get past the shows looking cheap. That's exactly what two of them said, the shows look cheap. And the way they use and move the cameras is too different from what they're used to.
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09-12-2018, 02:35 PM | #8 |
Tokusatsu Hero
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Quote:
Not to sound like a dick, but I would say that the bolded part is a pretty poor claim to make. Just because somebody doesn't want to watch a Japanese kids show with cheesy effects that's focused on selling toys doesn't mean they can't appreciate good stories. In fact...if I want a truly great story, I'm not going to search for it in toku. I'll watch Breaking Bad or something like that.
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She/Her Last edited by Guyver Spawn; 09-12-2018 at 07:27 PM.. |
09-12-2018, 05:10 PM | #9 |
Omnipresent Historian
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Quote:
Not to sound like a dick, but I would say that the bolded part is a pretty poor claim to make. Just because somebody doesn't want to watch a Japanese kids show with cheesy effects that's focused on selling toys doesn't mean they can't appreciate good stories. In fact...if I want a truly great story, I'm not going to search for it in toku. I'll watch Breaking Bad or something like that.
Anyways, I think toku has too niche of an appeal for the US these days. In the 60s and 70s we had stuff like the old Batman series and Star Trek, so these shows fit in right alongside them. That isn't really the case anymore. Power Rangers nostalgia also plays a huge part. People see something remotely like this and just assume it's Power Rangers. It doesn't help that Power Rangers hasn't been the best lately. Maybe Hasbro can change that? Still, overall, I'm with KaijuUltraFan on this one: I don't mind that it's pretty obscure. There is a lot of toku that in artistic nuance it is on par with breaking bad or other deep shows, but a lot of what denies "American general audiences" from giving it a fair shake is the effects and costumes. (I'd argue much of Toku is actually better than breaking bad.) Looking at Ryuki with Zolda's story of a Lawyer that's dying. Or much of what's in various series scattered, and you can see that there are some full depth points about seriousness or gravity, or anything else any other show has. But the one typical average response upon seeing costuming, even something as dark as say "Garo", is that it's "Power rangers sh-t". And then refuse to give it a fair shake. Look at something like the complexity of Ultraman Nexus, and it's the same. Now granted this was also the typical audience responses of the last 18 years or so, the world stage has been loosening up more and getting more open to potential incrementally and attempting to focus on story and artistic techniques which Japan has put into series from day 1. But when you look at American TV in particular. It's not "great story" american audiences are after, it's shock value and edgelord material(why something like Amazons tests better with Americans too). Breaking Bad is an interesting show, but to say it's superior to all of toku by remarks like "to sell toys to kids", is really dismissive of both Toku as an art form, cultural staple, and the depth it goes to in material too. While also ignoring that while Breaking Bad is an engrossing watch, it is literally built on the premise of being an "edgelord" show. Same really to Dexter, and the growth of that side of the industry that does things like American Gothic, and Scifi's splatterhouse/grindhouse show approaches. While a good chunk of Toku is made to sell toys, it's not as simple as "it's for kids". I'd even argue that some shows are more relatable in toku if you can look past the metaphor. Hibiki is an interesting one in this regard because of the focus being on the kid trying to find his place in life and where he wants to go or what he wants to become and how they used the musical overlay in chunks of it to carry the focus on sound and harmony pushing an element of finding harmony in yourself and in the larger world. Faiz is similar with it's early adoption of digital dating, and those stories associated to loss and bullying or abuse. The body language uses in Faiz too, when given the power to save others. Or Blade and the entire concept of found family with Chalice, or the sacrifices a new friends makes to protect that found family from being split up. The list can go on and on across nearly all toku, but the same dismissive attitude you displayed is what hinders it in America. "It's for kids to sell toys to them." And instead, citing something that's literally about a guy with cancer making meth to make money as what's a good show. Both are good in their own ways. But it's not that Americans want deep or smart shows. They'll say they do, but really if it makes them think, it's an instant turn off. American media thrives for the most part because it plays to the basest instincts and aspects, sometimes directors and writers can subvert that, but it's sustained on a heavy layer of cliches, predictability, and a mix of edginess to be edgy to get people's attention. American TV is more turn you brain off and enjoy the ride. While Toku has that too, nearly 99% of it all has deeper meanings. American TV/Movies are kind of funny in that regard. The truly great ones barely get noticed though may win awards, while the schlock or formulaic pandering, sometimes with some little nuance to play into the actual arts, get the most praise. Like if you brought up "Handmaid's tale" I'd agree that's a superior depth and complexity to a story with the message trying to be conveyed. But Breaking Bad, or Dexter, or even films like "Now You See Me"(though that movie does have some great story technique usage and artistic nuance!), are really more pandering and formulaic. Using their techniques to sell their edginess or make you think you've seen something new that's really a rehash of other material. And were literally designed to pander to American ignorance and power fantasies. (Though again, "Now You See Me" is more Robin hood/Leverage, but that's still a power fantasy of wish fulfillment to right wrongs. And the ending is a film technique usage that sells the entire thing as a work of film/cinema as opposed to a fluff movie.) So it's really not as simple as "One's to sell toys to kids" and the other's to be a "good/deep show." More Toku itself is quite deep and robust in what it presents, and that's what's made so many great ones. Including so much that we saw during the 2005-2014 toku boom of shows and material that range from things like Akihabara@Deep, Sh15uya, Cutie Honey the Live, Mirrorman Reflex, and more. Akihabara@deep in particular was a series way ahead of its time. Same as much of what's been in other toku was too. Ryukendo was a proverbial "Deadpool" tokusatsu before mocking the superhero tropes became trendy thanks to Deadpool. And the list goes on and on of these "children's shows" pioneering things for story before American media was willing to even do something like "Breaking Bad", and much of it carrying similar baseline concepts. A large chunk of american audiences have essentially an "imagination" problem, lack of seeing details, and there's more to it than that. But that's what makes Toku thrive in Japan and why its material is more open minded. In scifi terms and areas, much of toku really isn't all that different than Ironman. Something "Akihabara@Deep" itself toyed with and mocked in an "evil tony stark" kind of way about geek culture. Or for that matter, something Zi-O itself is revisiting as a concept about the path of power corruption as a cautionary tale, but a subverted cautionary tale that mixes in other elements of pre-destiny, and choices and more as the show develops. Even Kiva has quite some depth when you look into the quest of self of Wataru and how it's juxtaposed against his father from the past scenes, as well as the overall message of what a real monster is and other subtones than that. There are more examples, of this, but pleasing american audiences is relatively simple as much as they say they want "complex" or "deep" material, they really don't. American material is built more on facets of ego. But again, that's been changing, slowly. Larger areas of audiences are getting more open minded to some media types as they look past the outside and see what's in it more. It's an incremental process. So an larger world stage for Toku is possible, but it's a matter of finding the right outlets, and the right new material to subvert expectations to break those perceptions too. Because once that happens on the mainstream front, then the floodgates can be opened on the material american audiences have been denying themselves from looking at. Last edited by Librarian; 09-12-2018 at 05:25 PM.. |
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