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05-12-2018, 08:57 AM | #351 |
本当のクロスセイバー
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Himitsu
Posts: 168
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In Kiwami's defense regarding Amazons, I agree most of his opinions, especially about the overrated part. Don't forget, Amazons S1 aired when Ghost was at it's lowest. Try to lie but you just can't shrugg off the feelings that Amazons was a catharsis when Ghost couldn't execute on so well. So you can feel the big difference on both of them. That's why maybe some people felt like Amazons S2 didn't have the same impact not because just the characters and story but also it aired when Ex-Aid was on their strongest. I might sound a little harsh but you can't easily remove this mindset in our head.
Also, am I the only one here who doesn't like W or Double? For me, Drive is like an upgrade of W in some ways. It's not I dislike Akiko because I still found her entertaining in some places. However, Drive's characters are more all around. I really can't feel the dynamic between Shotaro and Philip, except in some episodes and the finales. It's a bit unfair because I have watched Gaim and Drive first before I watched W so I can't shrugg of the feelings that W would have been better on seralized. Really, the reason I don't really like W was because the two parter really hindraced the story for going linear. I mean when Drive was about 10-ish episodes, there was so much going on. For W? We were focusing too much on the case that the really plot moved so sluggish. When W was around 40-ish episodes, we must still focus on that police for a whole two episodes, dealing with the Old Dopant, dealing with Mick? Even for Drive, they knew when to move the final forward. From 40-ish episodes, you can't say it's fillers anymore but I can't say the same with W. That's why I like Wizard despite all of the hates. It has a rough journey but it has a rather satisfying journey on the finales and the two parter really felt like moving the plot onward. I just want the series to focus on the finales when it must. Also, W's other problems are the villains, except for Wakana and Saeko. Really, we don't get so much fleshed out from Kirihiko and Isaka. They only got a good deal of fights near the end of their time and I felt it should have been pushed earlier (Ehem, for once, we don't need that two parter crazy creepy doll case). I felt like Ryubee was on the loose ends too because he died so abrupt without a proper send out. Sorry if it's become a ramble but I really wonder how people can say W is good and amazing while I still see some loops and holes here and there. I know series like Wizard, Ex-Aid, Drive and Gaim also has their ups and downs but it's surprising that people o errated W so much.
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05-12-2018, 09:15 AM | #352 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: CA
Posts: 2,498
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I have like two episodes of Amazons season 1 left, and I think it's pretty good. I like how it's nice and short, so it doesn't feel drawn out. The themes are good, and there's a lot of really great episodes (the fight in the apartment building and the episodes involving the scrapyard are some of my favorite Rider episodes). The adult elements...well, the episodes in the scrapyard were definitely a lot more mature than normal Rider fare, but some of it seemed like "look how mature we are" edginess.
As does just about any Rider series. I just feel like the beginning of Drive is, at worse, "standard." The "it came after Gaim" argument makes sense though.
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Last edited by EpsilonX; 05-13-2018 at 06:47 PM.. |
05-12-2018, 09:41 PM | #353 |
KNIGHT OF SPADE
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 360
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I have to agree with EpsilonX. I watched Amazons this year and I really enjoy Build so I had no bias going in. The best part of Amazons is easily the pacing, as it doesn't suffer from the pitfalls many series like Drive (which I still love) falls in, a slow start, stretching out filler to fit a full episode or a 2 parter, and having to advertise toys. Yeah, the joke that every episode ended on a cliffhanger is true but I was hooked the whole way, so it worked. The theme of tamed vs. untamed was also interesting, I can't think of a rider series off the top of my head that also has that theme. It was also well-integrated into the story, with Haruka becoming more wild, Extermination Team becoming less wild (they started caring for the Amazons close to them), Jin and Nanaha being wild constants, and the company employees (save the CEO), Misuki (S1), and normal citizens being unwild constants. Balanced ended up being the best option (Haruka post-Extermination Team was the most well off). This is also the only show I've watched that makes a good justification for canabalism (I swear I'm not a cannibal), with the argument that humans should not be exempt from the food chain when other animals are just as compassionate, or even moreso (seen with the constrast with the murderer and the hungry, yet anti-fighting Amazon), which poses an interesting question to the viewers. The characters also have a great deal of memorable moments, the best example being the scene with Mamoru paying extermination team and looking at them through the yen coin or Haruka telling Misuki to not worry about his bruises. Season 1 is also better at handling its edge than Season 2, the excessive blood is only in fight scenes, there aren't any incredibly gruesome scenes of murder (the restaurant one I found was minimal and did a good job at not overdoing it), and there isn't constant attempts at religious symbolism. Also, can we appreciate the plethora of different environments in this show, they're not just in the same quarry, under the same bridge, in the same forest, or outside the same stadium. The fight in the apartment complex was super memorable and cool to watch because of that. Is this show perfect? No, it does have its fair share of extreme edge (CGI blood during fights, dark green filter), but it was enjoyable to watch and has plenty to like.
Last edited by DecadeW Climax; 05-12-2018 at 09:44 PM.. |
05-12-2018, 10:41 PM | #354 |
Tokusatsu Hero
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,223
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I never got the "look how mature we are" edginess vibe when watching Amazons. It didn't felt like they did it just to feel cool or badass like movies or anime like the August Underground movies or Future Diary and Tokyo Ghoul (At least from what I've seen of the anime. Not sure about the manga).
I like Amazons story, themes and characters. I do like that we can have a series for adults and a series for kids & the general audience. Just like how the MCU has the Netflix shows for the adults while the kids and the general audience has the main MCU movies in theaters. I don't mind watching something for a young audience time to time, but I do like having something with more substance too.
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She/Her |
05-13-2018, 07:12 AM | #355 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: CA
Posts: 2,498
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Quote:
I never got the "look how mature we are" edginess vibe when watching Amazons. It didn't felt like they did it just to feel cool or badass like movies or anime like the August Underground movies or Future Diary and Tokyo Ghoul (At least from what I've seen of the anime. Not sure about the manga).
SO many shows do it that I don't even notice anymore lol. But when a show doesn't, it seems kind of boring
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05-13-2018, 12:16 PM | #356 |
Tokusatsu Hero
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,223
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I didn't have any issues with that scene for how over the top it was. It felt like something from a Mortal Kombat game or 80's Italian horror film. The violence in Amazons is pretty over the top. I never felt like it was trying to be hardcore just for the sake of it. The violence and gore in Amazons is not much different than what you see in most R rated horror and action movies if you ask me (The ones that good).
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She/Her Last edited by Guyver Spawn; 05-13-2018 at 03:23 PM.. |
05-13-2018, 05:48 PM | #357 |
I have a problematic type
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,426
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My problem with Amazons season 2 was that I just got bored of it. The show really overestimated how much interest I had in Chihiro and how he wanted to bone the zombie girl. I honestly thought most of the new characters sucked (especially the new hunter captain, who seemed to be doped up on depressants most of the time) and the original cast suffered from having to share screentime with them.
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05-13-2018, 06:14 PM | #358 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,533
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Count me in that minority that loved both seasons for Amazons. Not because of the gore or edginess or mature feel, but because of the kind of story they were trying to tell.
Season 2 was interesting to me in that it's basically a deconstruction of the whole concept of Kamen Rider. Most series, we may get a character who isn't entirely human who's trying desperately to hold onto their humanity, and ultimately, they succeed. Look at any of the Showa Riders, or Faiz, or Chalice. But Chihiro, on the other hand, is totally fucked. He's only just barely holding onto that side of him, but the plot lets it be known that he's basically a ticking time bomb that's ready to go off at any given moment. And he finally does. And even when he tries to come back from it, he's already caused so much death that everyone else deems him too dangerous to be left alive. And that's beautifully tragic. I think where it lost people was simple: the love story bogged down the rest of the season. It's a love story where the literal basis of it is that it's entirely one-sided and that the characters involved have no chemistry together (due to one of them being, you know, dead.). On top of that, Chihiro is given a very flimsy reason for falling in love with her, so the entire thing just feels forced. And that being the main thing that causes him to go berserk just brings down the rest of the story.
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05-13-2018, 06:50 PM | #359 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: CA
Posts: 2,498
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Quote:
I didn't have any issues with that scene for how over the top it was. It felt like something from a Mortal Kombat game or 80's Italian horror film. The violence in Amazons is pretty over the top. I never felt like it was trying to be hardcore just for the sake of it. The violence and gore in Amazons is not much different than what you see in most R rated horror and action movies if you ask me (The ones that good).
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Last edited by EpsilonX; 05-15-2018 at 05:39 AM.. |
05-14-2018, 11:21 AM | #360 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,098
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It's the lack of hope that kills Amazons for me. I don't dislike it, I just don't think it's better than the real Kamen Rider shows, either. Kamen Rider has always been a show where a man is given evil powers and uses them to do good and inspire hope...but Amazons is so mired in despair and blood and darkness and edginess that 'hope' becomes a laughable concept.
Even Rider shows that are almost more flaw than shows...have that hope. Kamen Rider Amazons is an amazing show...but it's not Kamen Rider to me. It's more like Garo - which is also a great show. It tried to be 'Kamen Rider for adults'...but I think it lost the 'Kamen Rider' elements somewhere along the way. Like, it tries - and in some ways it succeeds - like, for instance, with how Jin and Haruka staunchly believe in their own ideals. It's very Knight/Ryuki, Gaim/Baron etc...but with Amazon's tone, you can tell from day one how it will end. Jin and Haruka kill each other. I will legitimately be shocked if the movie doesn't end that way. And yes, Gaim and Blade set up similar endings...but in Blade they both live, and in Gaim only one dies. I'd take Takeru or Haruto over Haruka or Jin any day. Even if Haruka in particular tries to fight for hope, it feels pointless. Amazons feels like 'Hope' is a childish notion in its universe and that's...not Kamen Rider to me. Even Gaim, which is a lot like Amazons in many ways, really feels like there us hope - especially in the last leg. Again, I like Amazons as a stand-alone show...but as a Kamen Rider show, its...a bit of a disappointment. ...I mean, I'm also in the camp that finds Amazon's gore over-the-top and IMTOTALLYADULTANDEDGY...but I find it charming in its hilarity. Like, it's something of a cheesy link to mainstream Kamen Rider. Amazon Omega might not have a five-minute long transformation sound, but he does rip a guys head off, which no less ridiculous XD |
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