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07-03-2023, 07:15 PM | #631 |
Warrior of Delusions!
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Wait, you dont know either?
Posts: 5,826
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Quote:
Still, it's a little surprising to me how almost universal the dislike for Revice seems to be? I came into this fandom through Ghost; specifically because watching Ghost was driving me insane. But for as much anger as Ghost engendered, there was honestly a lot of positivity and fun? I came away from that experience with an appreciation for both the show itself, and the way other fans enjoyed the show. I don't feel like that's as much the case for Revice? Or maybe the extra two years of distance Ghost had when I started posting about in 2019 really was the difference maker...
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07-03-2023, 08:55 PM | #632 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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KAMEN RIDER REVICE HYPER-BATTLE VIDEO: SAY HELLO TO THE SECONDARY RIDER!
I love how nerdy this thing got. Revice was a show that was ostensibly about the 50-year history of Kamen Rider, but got way less visibly celebratory as the series went on. The early form changes are all History Of Kamen Rider (well, Heisei Rider, mostly), but once we get to Barid Rex, we’re pretty much just doing suits that accentuate and elaborate on Revice’s themes and aesthetic. There’s for sure still elements at play that pay homage to the whole franchise – Androzani’s been doing a heroic job detailing them all – but they’re not really the focal point of the story. Revice grew out of that phase, for better or worse. So it’s nice to have one last little goof-off HBV special for the anniversary season, where the Igarashi Extended Family spends ten minutes bickering over which of them, if any, is the season’s Secondary. That is possibly the most specifically nerdy Kamen Rider discussion for a special to ever take part in, and it’s one that everybody in the fandom has fallen prey to at least once. (The biggest offender is probably Blade, but I can imagine that the topic came up occasionally in Geats discussion.) We all have this vocabulary we’ve cobbled together to help organize our thoughts on Kamen Rider, and it sometimes makes us miss the forest for the trees. Trying to decide if Daiji or Kagerou or Hiromi or Vice is the Secondary is maybe a square peg in a round hole. It’s not how these shows are probably made anymore, and the distinction doesn’t affect the story being told. It’s nerd trivia, and it’s not really talking about art. But, shit, I love indulging in trivia on occasion, so I was super into the baffling logic and surprising evasions of this episode’s dip in the Nerd Waters. The eventual reveal of Ikki being the Secondary to Genta’s Primary is deliciously absurd while still being logical, and god bless Ikki for trying not to seem absolutely crushed by the consensus of the group. I’d maybe’ve clarified that Evil is an antagonist Rider, and Live is his Secondary, but everything else was spot on and probably a real debate that happened on Japanese Twitter. Beyond that, this thing had the usual gigantic pile of bizarre details I come to HBVs for: The alternate Ikki, Daiji, Sakura, Hiromi, and Vice are, respectively, a Fenix officer, a three-year old, an anaconda, a monk, and a rice cooker; the main villain is werewolf who has already turned 80% of his world into puppies; and the actual editor of TV-Kun shows up to tell Ikki that Revice can’t be the Secondary because they’ve got magazines to sell. I don’t know that this one ended up saying anything about Secondary Riders, nor was it maybe aiming to. I think they just wanted to have a stupid, circular argument about arbitrary designations, and that’s it. REVICE IS FOR THE FANS! Note: I was not planning on doing the second HBV tonight, but then I found out that my copies – and, I guess, all copies – of the Revice Anime and first TTFC stage show weren’t subbed. Sorry! Maybe someday someone’ll get around to subbing them, and I can come back and talk about them!
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07-03-2023, 10:07 PM | #633 |
Filthy SU/FE Trash
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 572
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Quote:
In my mind, and from what I?ve discerned, some of the big problems with Revice were:
The three fan favourites (Hiromi, Kagerou and Genta) were gone for long stretches of the series. A lot of focus was given to characters who were controversial (Sakura, Akaishi) or downright maligned (Hikaru, Giff). In general, I think the show suffers from having too many characters to adequately focus on in a TV show. ) |
07-04-2023, 02:14 AM | #634 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 320
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I think the reason that Revice is potentially more disliked is because it was liked a lot early on. People were excited and got invested. Then it burned a lot of people. Getting something soured is far worse for most than never getting into it.
Probably the reason people often are surprisingly mad at Wizard for looking super cool and then being a show focused on MotW Plots. Just to a far lesser extent.
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07-04-2023, 02:27 AM | #635 |
Filthy SU/FE Trash
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 572
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Same like Ghost even when I first watched it was bad like I thought the villains sucked but it's just roll your eyes (I ACTUALLY THINK THIS SHOW IS AT POINTS WORSE THAN GHOST)
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07-04-2023, 02:45 AM | #636 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 2,551
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Okay, about the second HBV.
This is written by the same guy who did Birth of Chimera, and as I said in my review of that, he definitely feels more in his element with this kind of plotting. Especially the fact that parodies Nigou’s Christmas episode, with Tamaki’s actor playing the role of Col. Zol. Which was basically the joke I went with this time. (Note: This takes place in the alternate universe with no secondaries) Ikki: It’s Ikki’s… Stamp Navi! Alright everyone, thanks for cheering me on in my battles with the Deadmans. Make sure to use antibacterial wipes when cleaning up dust for better results*. Today’s Vistamp is this one. Gold Spino! Gold Up! Oh! Me! Say! Showtime! Kamen Rider! Yeah, gonna do it now! Gonna do it now! A Golden Shine, A Connected Will! Go on! Gold Spino! George: This Vistamp harnesses the power of the Nigou Spirit to counter the unique chemistry of Col. Julio’s Ookami Deadman form. Just like this guy. Lockseed: Nigou! Ichimonji: Henshin! George: Kamen Rider Nigou, Hayato Ichimonji. Shocker’s second attempt to create a Hopper Man, he was saved by Rider Ichigou and subsequently became his successor. After defeating Shocker’s Col. Zol, he left for Europe, returning to aid his fellow Riders during future times of crisis. Ikki: But unfortunately, I wasn’t able to make use of Ichimonji-san’s power, as the sole Rider battling the Deadmans. George: It’s okay. After I gave it to your alternate self, he was able to defeat Col. Julio with ease. And I was inspired. I’ve created a Rider System for my own use, combining the powers of all 10 of your forms. Suddenly, the screen behind them buzzes, before the image of Olteca dressed in a white tuxedo with a Dracula cape, sat on a red throne appears. Ikki: Dr. Olteca! Olteca: Hear this, Kamen Rider. I congratulate you on the demise of Col. Julio. However, myself and Ambassador Aguilera will be coming at you with more ferocity than before. We’ll be calling upon our strongest cultists from Europe** to come and challenge you. And soon, our glorious Hellish Deadmans Army will reign supreme. (Video ends) Ikki: In that case, I’d better head to Europe and stop their operations there. (He puts his hands on George’s shoulder) Can I trust you to protect Japan and my family in my absence?*** George: You can count on me, Rider Revi. I’ll be protecting Japan starting from the next instalment (turns towards the screen) Until next time, we’ll see you then****. And there’s a few specifically Showa gags in this skit. * This line from Ikki parodies how episode of Skyrider would end with the hero thanking the viewer for apwatching and then giving a lesson vaguely related to the next episode. ** In the older shows, the villains would often explain that the stronger members they called on came from branches in foreign countries. *** A reference to how when a new Rider appeared, the old ones would go overseas to fight the villain’s foreign branches, leaving the new kid in charge of protecting Tokyo. **** The closing line is taken from the English dub of Ultraman Z, which was my way of indicating this is an alternate universe. And as for there being Secondary discourse concerning Revice. Put simply,during a group watch of this, I commented “Meanwhile, the real secodnary humbly watches as her compatriots engage in this madness”. |
07-04-2023, 10:49 AM | #637 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
And thanks for the fun skit!
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Currently working on: Go-Busters is next! Archive of previous shows on KamenRiderDie.com! |
07-04-2023, 10:57 AM | #638 |
I have a problematic type
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,420
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My view on Revice’s secondary is that narratively it’s Sakura, merch-wise it’s Daiji.
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07-04-2023, 06:00 PM | #639 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,481
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Here's a take
Ikki is the primary Sakura is the secondary But! Hiiromi isnt thw 4thiary, but Daiji's secondary Note: I've not watched revice.
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07-04-2023, 07:18 PM | #640 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,290
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Right now, right this minute, I don’t particularly care about the minutiae of this series, or the steps along the way that were failures. What I got in the end was a lovely, thrilling story of how self-care and self-analysis are as heroic as anything, and how the only way to earn forgiveness is to start by forgiving ourselves.
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This was a series that mostly annoyed me in its attempts at epic superhero storytelling, but consistently floored me in its thoughtful and passionate defense of the totality of human experience. As a celebration of a franchise that’s spent 50 years arguing for the need to make the darker aspects of ourselves into something that can empower us to do good, I can’t think of a better standard-bearer than Revice. The ways that relationships became less about assigning blame than about allowing for redemption; how accepting yourself in all your complexity was inevitably the last, most crucial step towards a happier tomorrow; the hard battle of acknowledging your flaws and then seeing them as strengths. It’s a show that loves people, even if it didn’t always know how best to convey that love through a year-long weekly superhero TV show.
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And it’s a shame that it was frequently ill-prepared for those tokusatsu demands, because the core dynamic of this show is one of my absolute favorites. The Igarashi family is one of the best ideas in 50 years of Kamen Rider, and that’s no hyperbole. After dozens of found families and grim loners and All Dads Are Dead, here we are with a happy, functional family. Sure, they’re tested. Sure, they squabble and leave in a huff and sometimes pull guns on each other. But this show starts with a happy family, and ends with a happy family. No one dies. No one runs away. It’s a show that remembered its greatest weapon whenever things got too weird or maudlin or Giff, and Genta said it best: the Igarashi family can do it all.
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I don’t really know how to make this post make sense to the people who hated Revice. I get it, is I guess the olive branch I can extend. Any criticism you have about the plot, the pacing, even the characterization – I understand where you’re coming from. The story is, overall, not a strength. The non-Igarashi elements of the show mostly come off as placeholders; Better Military Organization And Villains TBD. It’s a series where the story is maybe indefensible. But for me, it’s also a series where the characters are unparalleled.
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The characters on this show transcended their trappings to make a terrific series, and it’s all because the conflicts were never about monsters and organizations and henchmen and whatever. It’s not a show where the machinations of adversaries were the driving force, and I get why that’s a let down for some folks. I would certainly prefer it if a show was both intelligently plotted and thematically rich! (See: Geats.) But the way every great story from this show was internally generated, either figuratively (Ikki vs Daiji, Kagerou vs everyone, Vail vs everyone) or literally (Vail vs Genta, Daiji vs Kagerou) was what kept me invested in this series. The conflicts were never about defeating a foe, they were always – ALWAYS – about trying to find a way to forgive ourselves for the things we hate about ourselves, and learn to see those things as victories instead of failures. Giff and Fenix are forgettable bullshit; Genta welcoming Vail back into the family after all of its rage and violence is something I will always remember.
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