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04-29-2020, 11:52 AM | #611 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Yeah speaking of that I'm not sure this was brought back when Scissors was in the show. But during Zi-O run they ran 2 polls to select 5 Riders/Forms to make into DX Ridewatches(the gimmicl of Zi-O) that haven't been made yet.(So in total 10 would be made) And it was insane literally every form and Rider was fair game so long as it wasn't one they had been made yet, (unfortunatly no Showa alloowed cuz Zi-O was celebrating Heisei )or wasn't in the show or movies you can vote for it. Guess what Scissors made it to the 10 and got made. And it was amazing
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04-29-2020, 11:57 AM | #612 |
Warrior of Delusions!
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Wait, you dont know either?
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Although Scissors did get that Ridewatch made purely by meme power alone, so that might count for something.
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04-29-2020, 03:28 PM | #613 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,290
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One of my biggest problems with Yui's story is how little agency she has in it. It's mostly people (Shinji, Ren, Shiro, Auntie, Tezuka) deciding things for her, discussing her fate amongst themselves. It's a great moment for the show to finally consider what Yui wants in a serious, actionable way.
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That is a very impassioned defense of the series. I think it's awesome that you feel so strongly about what they've put out.
Like, and this is something I'll talk about at greater length when the series is over, maybe, but the weird inconsistencies and vagaries, that's something someone decided to put in this story! If it's a bad solution to a problem, but any other solution would be worse, maybe write a different problem? But it's ok if you're gonna talk about this on a greater length after the series is over, because I thought you'll leave the series for good after finishing it. I'd like to see the presumed other choices, because I'm also confused myself about the other takes based on the show's hopeless premise. And sometimes this discussion about different takes they wish can significantly diverge from the series' setting (even ignoring pre-established something there) which IMO would turn into different series. Quote:
I guess? It feels like it's less about choosing life or death to me, and more about Yui gaining control over her existence. To not be a pawn or a prize, but to decide her own fate. Even if that fate is to disappear, at least she got to decide it. Ren has a typically Ren outlook of Alive Or Dead, like those are the only two ways of describing a human being, but Shinji's looking for more nuance, the sense of a life being about happiness and purpose. I don't know, it felt more introspective to me.
A̶n̶d̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶i̶r̶s̶t̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶c̶e̶ ̶S̶h̶i̶n̶j̶i̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶a̶g̶r̶e̶e̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶Y̶u̶i̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶,̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶b̶o̶t̶h̶ ̶w̶a̶n̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶R̶i̶d̶e̶r̶ ̶W̶a̶r̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶e̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶t̶e̶c̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶n̶o̶c̶e̶n̶t̶s̶,̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶a̶c̶t̶ ̶b̶e̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶l̶y̶ ̶a̶ ̶d̶e̶f̶i̶n̶i̶t̶e̶ ̶w̶a̶y̶.̶ And he does in ep. 49, though also for Shiro being unhappy. Quote:
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There’s a funereal feel to this episode, a pall over the proceedings. Mostly in silence, Shinji and Ren have barely begun to process Yui’s death before Shiro declares that the Rider Battles will continue. And then, it’s just, oh. There’s no end to this. It’s just misery until we die. There are no options, no one can be saved.
Well, anyway, this scene is meant to tease the real way to stop the Mirror Monsters threatening humans, brought by Yui at the time of her disintegration, about the pictures. What differentiates Yui's performance here, compared to when she was "on the verge of tears" before? Also regarding "just misery until we die", nope, Shiro went under complete breakdown now, Yui disintegrates before her birthday, means he thinks she can still be saved, but he has completely lost it as the time left for her birthday is very short now, losing the echo on his voice. Probably intentionally made as it's "unconvincing" as he has gone insane. Shiro talking about there are no times left at the end of the episode? The time is exactly Yui's birthday at 19th Jan, the last day for his chance. Quote:
(Also, so, is the amount of Riders necessary for the final battle as handwaved as the rest of this premise? We’re consistently told that Riders Can’t Quit, that they have to fight until there’s one left, but, like, it doesn’t matter that Asakura and Kitaoka aren’t fighting? Kitaoka got to bail last episode, “withdraw”, like that was ever an option offered to literally any other character, but Asakura? He would definitely want to fight! He has not conceded! Just, why even have rules if Shiro’s just making them all up.)
The wish is created from the lives of 12 Kamen Riders (yeah, like collecting all the Dragon Balls, or in KR Ghost; collecting Eyecons, here you collect the lives of 12 Riders for the wish). That is why the Rider War exists, and why Shiro needs the other 12 people to fight and die. Everything that Shirou creates - all of the powers and magical abilities - is a phantom that only exists in (or in connection to) the Mirror World. To create a true "wish", he needs 12 people to die as Kamen Riders. Quote:
It’s more of that as the episode progresses. Kitaoka’s out of the hospital, but clearly without much time left. Asakura is going to be killed by the police at dawn. And Shinji’s at Ore Journal, confessing his secrets and adrift in confusion. Nothing he does seems to matter, and he doesn’t know what he should even fight for at this point.
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Other than that, how strong are the individual Raydragoons (the name of the monsters)? Seems like what they got is numbers (of course humans are still powerless to it), where even critically injured Shinji still wins the fight with them. Oh, no, not just that. Right after they stabbed Shinji, he easily swats away the monsters from him. He can't pose anymore for his base Ryuki Final Vent... just instantly kick. Quote:
And, it's a small thing in the episode, but I love that Reiko figured everything out herself. Mirror World, Shiro, Kamen Riders... she just figured it out. No one had to tell her. She just spent a year chasing down leads, interviewing subjects, having occasional eye injuries, and doing research. That's it. And she got it all.
Last edited by DreadBringer; 04-29-2020 at 04:09 PM.. |
04-29-2020, 11:31 PM | #614 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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An actionable way that will singlehandedly end Ryuki. This happens at the end of Ryuki, but if the truth is known much earlier she would likely also do this, and only repeated attempts of this if it fails, but overall it'll be very easy for her to die this way quickly ending the series.
Like, and maybe this is going to come down to Agree To Disagree, I'm not really arguing the internal logic of some of the show. (at least, not this part right this second.) I'm arguing that I found it creatively unfulfilling. Quote:
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I'd like to see the presumed other choices, because I'm also confused myself about the other takes based on the show's hopeless premise. And sometimes this discussion about different takes they wish can significantly diverge from the series' setting (even ignoring pre-established something there) which IMO would turn into different series.
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Their parents are simply horrible people (which is harshly.. realistic), what do you expect from abusive parents? They are obviously going to leave them to die, if they are cold and uncaring enough to lock them up in the attic permanently, and Shiro's pleas (about Yui being sick and dying)? Just ignored and lock them again, likely because they thought it was just their whining daughter and snivelling son going on again.
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Also why there are Mirror version of Kanzaki siblings? Because Yui and Shiro also draw themselves... like them drawing the monsters. Mirror version of Yui and Shiro exists the same way as all the Mirror/Contract Monsters do, and like humans in Mirror World, Mirror World humans also can only exist for so long in real world which is why she'll die at age 20.
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Also, I just felt for her then. A death scene's tough, especially a special effect-y death scene like hers. It's tough to get to that primal emotion, and I thought the actor really delivered. Super subjective, but I thought the performance was aces. Quote:
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And do you forget that Kitaoka is... incurable without winning the war? Kitaoka will also soon die, and like Toujou, Riders don't need to die via Rider battles, or them dying in Rider forms. Shiro only wants those Riders to die, and Kitaoka will also soon get that fate.
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OK, probably I have to explain the wish, the best one I can find, from the TVTropes page, and the reason why Shiro really wants the Riders to die (also, "Riders Can't Quit" is only to make sure any Riders that fight in his game dies, either by getting killed by other Riders or eaten by Contract Monsters)
The wish is created from the lives of 12 Kamen Riders (yeah, like collecting all the Dragon Balls, or in KR Ghost; collecting Eyecons, here you collect the lives of 12 Riders for the wish). That is why the Rider War exists, and why Shiro needs the other 12 people to fight and die. Everything that Shirou creates - all of the powers and magical abilities - is a phantom that only exists in (or in connection to) the Mirror World. To create a true "wish", he needs 12 people to die as Kamen Riders. Quote:
Other than that, how strong are the individual Raydragoons (the name of the monsters)? Seems like what they got is numbers (of course humans are still powerless to it), where even critically injured Shinji still wins the fight with them. Oh, no, not just that. Right after they stabbed Shinji, he easily swats away the monsters from him. He can't pose anymore for his base Ryuki Final Vent... just instantly kick.
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04-29-2020, 11:59 PM | #615 |
take me to space
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,406
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Now that we're so close to the end, I must ask you, Die... Which Rider would you most want to transform into? I purely mean when it comes to their suit, weapons and monster, not anything about their actual lives. (Imagine becoming Ouja and needing to drink eggs out of a glass.) Odin not counted but I assumed you wouldn't pick him anyway.
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04-30-2020, 12:12 AM | #616 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Now that we're so close to the end, I must ask you, Die... Which Rider would you most want to transform into? I purely mean when it comes to their suit, weapons and monster, not anything about their actual lives. (Imagine becoming Ouja and needing to drink eggs out of a glass.) Odin not counted but I assumed you wouldn't pick him anyway.
I hate... basically everything about Ryuki Survive? I hate that he's got a gun, which takes the Charges Into Action character of Shinji and makes him a long-range combatant. I hate the whiskers on his helmet that become antenna. I hate the gigantic shoulders. I find it an enormous downgrade from the basic Ryuki suit. And I love that suit! I can't believe Medieval Plugsuit was an aesthetic that someone came up with, and I can't believe it works so well. The red base suit is vibrant, the silver chestplate and helmet make it seem resilient and powerful, and the card slot on the forearm defines him as a fighter, a brawler. It's a great design. That all said, my favorite Final Vent is probably Zolda's. Dude's contract monster is a Gundam, who launches a thousand missiles at his target. Is there anything cooler than that? If there is, it's probably not a manta ray. Sorry, Tezuka and Asakura!
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04-30-2020, 12:22 AM | #617 |
take me to space
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,406
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For me, the worst part about Ryuki Survive is how his 'sword' is gripped, I can't stop thinking about how awkward it is for his wrist to swing it around. The best part however, is how his dragon turns into what might be my favourite bike in all of Kamen Rider.
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04-30-2020, 12:27 AM | #618 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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I mean, it's hard to argue with turning a Contract Monster into a bike. Both Survives do it, and Alternative does it at one point. It's incredibly cool. I'll be honest, I still think I like Knight's Survive bike better. I think it's Knight's cape? Capes on bikes are totally impractical, which makes them awesome. It's like one better than a scarf, which is the minimum required neck attire for a motorcyclist.
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04-30-2020, 02:26 AM | #619 |
Ex-Weather Three leader
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Posts: 10,501
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04-30-2020, 06:07 AM | #620 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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Ryuki Survive I'm split on... but Dragranzer is genuinely one of the coolest designs I've ever seen. Of anything. It's just this huge mechanical dragon with bike parts and it owns that aesthetic; every time I see a picture of the SHF I adore it!
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