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03-15-2016, 08:42 AM | #21 |
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Lexington, Ky
Posts: 16,328
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Quote:
I wasn't looking for a defense and I stand by what I said. As pretty as the power animals were, most of their transformations were uninspired. The cubes are far more creative in their transformations, period.
I guess we have differing opinions on creativity. The cubes do far more in that they take the same shape and make multiple animals. It's not close in my opinion. I believe the only reason people say different is because they just don't like the 8 bit aesthetic. That's fine if you prefer the heavily detailed, more realistic style, but difference in style doesn't denote difference in quality or engineering. The build is quality, and the engineering is really smart. Everything being cubes and making laughably passable animals is not an example of creativity. Look at how hard those animal designs are compromised & stretched to make them fit into these cubes. Please look at this objectively because to me I've laid out fact, you've laid out personal opinion. You like the "style" of these things and that's fine. The 8-bit aesthetic looks fine, it translates better to the show than the toys though. And you can enjoy a toy as much as you want, but at the end of the day it simply is not correct to say that these toys are more complex, or creative, or involved, or more highly engineered, or whatever phrase you want to use, than Power Animals. That is not the case. You are not looking at this with an open mind. Dismissing the fact that Power Animals simply are better quality toys. Seriously at an engineering level there is nothing about Cubes that surpasses them at this point. The line could improve, but generaly Gaoranger was sort of the peak of the Heisei era in terms of both TV ratings & toy engineering. Now is it fair to compare a modern toy to one form 15 years ago? Not always. In many cases production & engineering is quite different over a period of time that large. If you were arguing that the Cubes should be given a break based on how different the demographic & base for sentai are now, and the way toy sales have shaped the line to make it more simplistic, then I would understand. But by not acknowledging how much more simplistic these toys are compared to their predecessors, it just borders on outright ignorance of fact.
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03-15-2016, 01:33 PM | #22 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 244
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I read your post and I simply disagree with it. I have also acknowledged on multiple occasions how simple they are. I'm not ignorant to, nor have I dismissed anything. As you said yourself outside of the "heavy hitters" the power animals are also very simple in their personal transformations. That's a fact, not just my opinion as you stated.
This was never about anything other than the creativity of the cube animals and the different ways they transform from the same cube shape. They are more creative in that regard, and are well engineered in that regard. I've never made it more than that. |
03-15-2016, 04:21 PM | #23 |
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 606
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They're not exactly the most amazing mech out there, but they look fun and I like some of the ideas behind them. If I can still get them for a reasonable price later this year I might actually import them. That said, I might just wait for the eventual BoA versions when Zyuoger is adaptaded into a PR series. Since they are more simplistic, I'm kinda hoping BoA finds a way to just ad Zordbuilder into the existing sculpts, rather than coming up with their own, somehow simplified, versions for the US market.
They're definitely not for everyone, but I like them.
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03-16-2016, 01:27 PM | #24 |
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 599
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Quote:
It has absolutely nothing to do with style or design or the aesthetic. If you're saying that you clearly didn't read my post. These are simplistic toys. I have no understanding of how you can say Power Animals are uninspired when the Cube Animals literally are just blocks stacked on top of one another to create a larger mecha. That's uninspired. That's the definition of uninspired. They do nothing. Their transformations to animal form require 2-4 steps at best. I own every single release from Gaoranger and they're all more complex than that at least. Shark, Deer, Giraffe, the arm modules may not have far to go to become arms, but they already have more moving parts by far than any of the 4 cube animals I've handled at this point. And those are just the bottom of the barrel most simplistic of the Power Animals. There's literally no comparison at all to the heavy hitters like Gorilla, Bison, & Rhino.
Everything being cubes and making laughably passable animals is not an example of creativity. Look at how hard those animal designs are compromised & stretched to make them fit into these cubes. Please look at this objectively because to me I've laid out fact, you've laid out personal opinion. You like the "style" of these things and that's fine. The 8-bit aesthetic looks fine, it translates better to the show than the toys though. And you can enjoy a toy as much as you want, but at the end of the day it simply is not correct to say that these toys are more complex, or creative, or involved, or more highly engineered, or whatever phrase you want to use, than Power Animals. That is not the case. You are not looking at this with an open mind. Dismissing the fact that Power Animals simply are better quality toys. Seriously at an engineering level there is nothing about Cubes that surpasses them at this point. The line could improve, but generaly Gaoranger was sort of the peak of the Heisei era in terms of both TV ratings & toy engineering. Now is it fair to compare a modern toy to one form 15 years ago? Not always. In many cases production & engineering is quite different over a period of time that large. If you were arguing that the Cubes should be given a break based on how different the demographic & base for sentai are now, and the way toy sales have shaped the line to make it more simplistic, then I would understand. But by not acknowledging how much more simplistic these toys are compared to their predecessors, it just borders on outright ignorance of fact.
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03-16-2016, 01:58 PM | #25 |
Kawaii 5-0
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Cardiff, United Kingdom
Posts: 12,851
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It's more like if rather than when at the moment to be honest, given the recent skipping of every other series. Toy-wise so far this show has just as little going for it as Go-Busters and ToQger, far less in the latter's case.
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03-17-2016, 12:02 AM | #26 |
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 606
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Toy-wise so far this show has just as little going for it as Go-Busters and ToQger, far less in the latter's case.
Honestly, I think the only thing this series is lacking is a card/key/battery/engine/star sorta collectable gimmick. Though for all we know next year's Sentai will also be lacking such a gimmick as well, so that might ultimately not be a factor when choosing the next series to adapt after making Ninja Steel. We'll just have to wait and see. Though if Ninja Steel sticks to the two season format, we could be waiting almost two years to find out, lol
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03-18-2016, 11:22 PM | #27 |
Ut maneat vobiscum in vir
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 32
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Quote:
I read your post and I simply disagree with it. I have also acknowledged on multiple occasions how simple they are. I'm not ignorant to, nor have I dismissed anything. As you said yourself outside of the "heavy hitters" the power animals are also very simple in their personal transformations. That's a fact, not just my opinion as you stated.
This was never about anything other than the creativity of the cube animals and the different ways they transform from the same cube shape. They are more creative in that regard, and are well engineered in that regard. I've never made it more than that. Downplay the Power Animals all you want. The fact remains that as a package they provided a better combined mode experience. And hey, I could understand your complaint about the gallery comparing the two sets if you were coming from the perspective of "these two sets are trying to do two different things," but you're not taking that approach. You're claiming that the Zyuoger set is superior to the Power Animal set. Which is false. It's not a matter of personal taste re:aesthetics. The Zyuoger set is a set of simplified spring loaded auto flip figures you literally stack on top of each other. If you still dig them? Ok. Cool. Just don't try to make them something they're not. |
03-18-2016, 11:39 PM | #28 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,934
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Quote:
There's nothing creative about stacking three cubes on top of each other and calling it a combined mech form.
Downplay the Power Animals all you want. The fact remains that as a package they provided a better combined mode experience. And hey, I could understand your complaint about the gallery comparing the two sets if you were coming from the perspective of "these two sets are trying to do two different things," but you're not taking that approach. You're claiming that the Zyuoger set is superior to the Power Animal set. Which is false. It's not a matter of personal taste re:aesthetics. The Zyuoger set is a set of simplified spring loaded auto flip figures you literally stack on top of each other. If you still dig them? Ok. Cool. Just don't try to make them something they're not. All he is arguing is about the specific Cube Animals being well engineered and creative in their individual transformations. Which is not something he is wrong about. He also never said anything about the cubes being unequivocally better than the power animals. His exact words were: Which is kind of exactly the "these two sets are trying to do two different things" approach you say he should be taking. In this case, it seems he is arguing that their strengths are that the power animals have a stronger focus on aesthetics while the cubes generally have more involved transformations. Which, again: not actually incorrect. |
03-19-2016, 11:12 AM | #29 |
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Lexington, Ky
Posts: 16,328
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Quote:
You're either deliberately or inadvertently missing the point he's making, but either way you're misrepresenting what's actually being said. He has not said anything about ZyuohKing as the mecha being better than GaoKing, or said that the way the animals come together is more creative. He didn't even imply that. You can't make a counterargument for something that has not actually been argued in the first place.
All he is arguing is about the specific Cube Animals being well engineered and creative in their individual transformations. Which is not something he is wrong about. He also never said anything about the cubes being unequivocally better than the power animals. His exact words were: Which is kind of exactly the "these two sets are trying to do two different things" approach you say he should be taking. In this case, it seems he is arguing that their strengths are that the power animals have a stronger focus on aesthetics while the cubes generally have more involved transformations. Which, again: not actually incorrect. Quote:
The cubes are far more creative in their transformations, period.
Taken as individuals or as whole mecha, there's sort of no comparison. Which again brings us back to why I did the comparison photos in the first place, to show just how far standards of engineering have fallen in the 15 years since our last animal themed anniversary series. I understand I have a huge bias for Gaoranger already, but looking at this objectively, they really just are better engineered and more complex toys. That seems pretty clear to me. Arguing otherwise, as I stated earlier in this thread, ignores fact. Like what you want to like but don't make the case for something that just isn't factually correct. That'd be like arguing VHS is better than Blu-Ray because of it's simplicity & charm rather than taking into account the technological shortcomings of the format. From an engineering standpoint one is clearly much weaker, which in this analogy is clearly the Cube Animals.
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03-19-2016, 11:54 AM | #30 |
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 606
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Not to get myself involved in argument, but "better engineered" and "more creative" aren't the same thing. One is about complexity and facts and the other is about art style and opinions.
I, oddly enough, would agree with both. The cube animals are more creative, while the power animals are better engineered. The cube animals have a cool art style to them that they accomplish very well while being simplistic, while the power animals have a level of complexity that they accomplish very well while having a more simplistic style to them. Honestly, comparing the two sets isn't fair to either in this case, imho, as they're both attempting rather different things here.
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