|
Community Links |
Members List |
Search Forums |
Advanced Search |
Go to Page... |
|
Thread Tools |
05-20-2020, 07:35 PM | #241 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
|
Please publish this as a book. Kindle, epub, pdf, whatever. I'll buy one first thing. This thread is too smart to get buried in a forum, lost to the ages. Profoundly insightful work.
Thank you so much for doing all this! Kuuga was... not my bag. I'm not sure if it's the sort of thing that improves on later viewings? There's a lot of stuff that got talked about here that... there's a way that knowing the whole picture makes it easier to see how all of the pieces fit. Knowing what kind of story it is makes watching it easier, better, and I feel like I couldn't get on that wavelength as I watched it for the first time. Or, I don't know. Maybe just wasn't for me! Anyway, hell of a job. I hope you had fun doing it!
__________________
Currently working on: Go-Busters is next! Archive of previous shows on KamenRiderDie.com! |
05-20-2020, 07:53 PM | #242 |
Some guy. I'm alright.
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,417
|
Total sidenote, I was listening to this as I read those last couple posts, and felt it was extraordinarily fitting.
Anyway Fish, I gotta say, your passion really shined through this entire thread. Even with my god awful attention span, I found myself easily being to read through all of your posts no problem. And they even helped reinforce and remind me as to why I love Kuuga as a show so much. For me personally, Kuuga is a show that I owe alot to. If not for it, I actually would've never even gotten into Kamen Rider or a larger selection of Japanese Toku as a whole. Before it, all I ever watched were the American side of things, and in terms of Kamen Rider the only ones I'd seen were Saban's Masked Rider and Kamen Rider Dragon Knight, neither of which I liked very much. As such, my view on Kamen Rider had been pretty soured. But, a friend who'd been a fan of KR long before I convinced me to give the series one final chance; And by sheer random chance I just kinda chose Kuuga as the show to watch. And holy HELL was it a lucky payoff. Never before had I seen a Toku show like this--hell-a show like this period. Kuuga destroyed my expectations in literally every way. The story, the style, the music, the direction, the gore, the effects, the characters, and most importantly, the atmosphere, were all things I never expected out of a show like this. And every episode had me totally drawn in. And in alot of ways it reminded me of another of my all time favorite shows: Android Kikaider: The Animation. Perhaps if I somehow am ever able to find my own voice I'll make a thread on that someday. Regardless, no other Rider show has ever managed to match up, and it's definitely one of my all time favorites. As for the episodes themselves, you said just about everything I could've said and more. But one thing I definitely want to touch on is that final battle. I've heard alot of mixed opinions on it over the years, but, and I hate saying this, I really do, but the people who complain about it not being some bombastic clash of titans are totally missing the entire point of it. There's many reasons both Daguva and Yusuke are reduced down to their human states here. And one of those is showing and calling into question the state of each characters morals and humanity. Even as he's being beaten to death, all Daguva can do is laugh, enjoying every second of it. And Yusuke? Well, I dunno if anyone will agree with me, but that look on his face wasn't just because he hated having to resort to such an ugly way of ending all of this, but because he outright pitied and felt sorry for Daguva and the type of person he had become. Hell, Yusuke was literally ending someone else's' smile during that entire confrontation, something I imagine he never thought he'd have to do. It's not the most flashy battle in anything by any means, but it's the most emotionally powerful one in Kuuga, and one of the most emotionally driven moments in any show I've seen to date. If the show had ended right there, I still would've said it was a great finale, but then the next episode came and made everything even better. Hell, damn near perfect. So, that's about all I have to say, I think. Reliving the show and discussing it all with you was alot of great fun! Now someone please do an OOO thread so I can gush there too, lol. Last edited by DreamSword; 06-03-2020 at 09:50 PM.. |
05-20-2020, 08:17 PM | #243 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
|
... wow, this is really the end of the thread.
Like okay, not over over; we're all gonna chip in our thoughts and one day, some lovely day in 2041 we'll be talking about the Super Secret video; but in terms of recapping the series it's finished. And that's actually kind of getting me slightly emotional. I wasn't really watching along exactly; especially since I'd watched it very recently it would feel weird to for me personally, but... obviously while a visual medium can't be replaced like this, this has felt like a rewatch to me; in that it's gotten me to think a lot more about certain scenes and words and actions and has allowed me to get a lot more meaning out of this series even though it was hardly lacking on substance for me to begin with. I mean, hell, it's my third favourite Toku; it'd be pretty worrying if I didn't think highly of it before this! All that to say, damn, this is just a thread on the internet but you got me feeling things. I can only give this my best whirl. When I saw Episode 47's opening, I was deeply confused. I could have sworn I missed an episode with everything that was happening and had to double check my numbers and how many times I'd clicked 'next', but, nope -- this is how we were opening. It's maybe a bit obvious to call it subversive, but I wanna say right away that that's really what makes Amazing Mighty work to me -- the hero's gone and gotten a new upgrade, and the very next episode, it's stomped underfoot effortlessly and never seen again. That sort of throw to your expectations; that kind of disregard for the traditional rules; that mixed in with the sheer sensory overload of everything going on at the start of Decision... it's fantastic. And what's really fantastic to me is how it only really dawned on me while I was watching the rest of the episode -- the constant rain brings dread, sure, but that slow realisation I had of what exactly happened just doubled down on it. I wasn't even watching a premonition of what was to come; I slowly began to realise that I was watching the kindest man in the world putting up a brave front and smiling to everyone knowing fully well that he was marching off to die; whether physically or spiritually. And it's wonderful to see everyone again -- even Kanzaki's back, Yusuke's mentor and teacher who tells him how proud he is of who he's become; and yet... there's this overwhelming sense of dread. I've yet to see anything like these two episodes. And then Episode 48, Kuuga... it really goes and hits me with that red-eyed Ultimate. Godai turning around after transforming, slowly revealing the colour in his eyes; Ichijou's slow realisation and what I can only read as a glimmer of hope in his expression... this post is getting very gushy very quickly, but it's all I can do. I've got a slightly different reading, if I might. Reading into Kuuga as being a deeply opposite entity to Yusuke; to being this awful, violent, terrible warrior... I mean, yeah, that's hard to dispute. It is Yusuke at his worst. It is the worst things about him that he uses with a heavy heart. ... but it's also his. I'm a bit soft and mushy on this sort of thing, and I admit, I'm very quick to read into a Rider or Sentai form as that character's own power. I always like that. But Yusuke's just spent the whole series being called "#4". A very clinical definition by the police, a very detached term, and one that makes him no different to the monsters he's fighting. (And since I have nowhere else to really say it, maaaaybe a clever little nod to how the only numbered Riders in Showa were 1, 2 and 3?) Even his allies continue to call him that well after they get to know him personally and are directly working with him. Even when he's not called #4, ancient texts refer to him as a 'fearsome warrior'. But that's not what Yusuke calls it. He calls it Kuuga. It's a very... I don't want to say childish thing to do, but it's definitely something that's got a lot more energy to it, a bit more playfulness. Or rather, it's a Superhero name. And I don't want to say Yusuke sees himself as a superhero or someone that swoops in to save the day or even someone that's proud to fight, because I think that goes against the core tenets of his character. Rather, I think he's very optimistic and very driven. He's determined to turn this power into a positive in any way he can; he refuses even at Kuuga's worst points to see it as the ultimate darkness. He refuses to give in to the idea that it's inherently a terrible thing -- he's going to go against everything that's been said and make Kuuga a beacon of hope that shines through the darkness. And then we see Ultimate Form has red eyes. DreamSword went into a very good speech about how Amazing Mighty's bright red eyes symbolise the light of Yusuke shining through the darkness of Kuuga; never giving up and never giving into his worst emotions. And that's exactly what I see in the Ultimate Form he takes up here -- yes, of course, immediately after he has an ugly, awful, bloody, teary brawl with Daguva. Yes, he has to use terrible, demonic power. Yes, he has to kill. But he's refusing to do more than that. Kuuga, in the real world, had become a hero and a source of hope and kindness to so many children in Japan. An effect that I still see today -- I'm not sure if anyone on this forum knows him, but there's this guy called KTJ-Taka that runs a shop for Toku toys. He also does quite a few youtube videos, and in one of the more recent ones I've seen; he talks a fair bit about how Kuuga was his first series, and how much he loved it and how new it was. And now he's grown up and it's made him so happy, he went out of his way to make a store specifically to sell Toku items to people outside of Japan who want them but have trouble getting them. And I just think... I don't know. I think that, like how Kuuga had become something so positive in the real world; I think Yusuke always strived to make it something positive himself. Maybe that's just me. I think that's a good enough lead-in to say that this last episode, that last scene where it plays the ending while Yusuke's walking through a beach on his travels, entertaining the kids as he goes? I kinda started crying. I think this is where I knew, where I really knew and realised; this was a series I'd loved. It done everything so perfectly, so wonderfully, so beautifully... and I'd fallen in love. Every relationship; every bit of trust; every struggle to put kindness above violence; I don't think I can quite put it into words. Kuuga was a beautiful series and an absolute must-watch in my eyes. I have a hard time expressing how much it meant to me, but it's so, so, so uplifting in everything it does. And one way I know it was so important to me? ... this is gonna sound beyond corny, but ever since I watched Kuuga, I've been finding myself doing thumbs ups so much more whenever I can. Maybe more than the show itself (133 feels very low; sure you didn't miss any?), maybe a bit too much, but... I think just that little bit of positivity always helps. I've hinted towards it a lot in this thread, but Kuuga to me is about trust in those you care about -- you'll always be there for them, you're always there to support them and lend an ear when you need to, and you'll always protect them. But beyond that, you'll trust them in what they want to do and what their path is. And I think that little bit of affirmation, that little Thumbs Up, it encapsulates all of that. I think that's everything. Thank you for making this thread, and thank you for being so open and so thoughtful about how you feel about Kuuga. It's been a joy going along with you for the ride, and I've gotten out just about everything I wanted to say on it. This has been fantastic Now I just need to theorycraft that post on how the TryChaser's colour scheme transformation is relevant to telling us something about Yusuke's character
__________________
Last edited by Kurona; 05-20-2020 at 08:25 PM.. |
05-20-2020, 09:52 PM | #244 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
|
Thank you all so much for the usual kind and generous responses! I'll get right to those in a second, but first, some random thoughts I had a little too late to fit in that I need to get out before I forget:
- Holy crap how cool is it that episode 48, arguably the darkest episode of the series, ended up having the highest thumbs up count I mean really - On the whole discussion of the significance of Kuuga's eyes, it's probably worth noting Daguva's are black. - And on that subject, I had the revelation that the whole Linto prophecy about the fearsome warrior doesn't actually refer to a specific fearsome warrior? Daguva's holy spring is as dry as they come, in both episode 1 AND 39, his appearance is accompanied by literal lightning, and he summons an endless rain that blocks out all daylight. The "holy spring" bit might be the only metaphorical part of that entire thing, and that's awesome. - Also, Die is gonna love this one, but my one word description of Kuuga? You know what else is pretty healthy? Eating your vegetables. Quote:
Just another quote that really stuck with me for some reason. Quote:
Thank you so much for doing all this! Kuuga was... not my bag. I'm not sure if it's the sort of thing that improves on later viewings? There's a lot of stuff that got talked about here that... there's a way that knowing the whole picture makes it easier to see how all of the pieces fit. Knowing what kind of story it is makes watching it easier, better, and I feel like I couldn't get on that wavelength as I watched it for the first time. Or, I don't know. Maybe just wasn't for me!
Quote:
And Yusuke? Well, I dunno if anyone will agree with me, but that look on his face wasn't just because he hated having to resort to such an ugly way of ending all of this, but because he outright pitied and felt sorry for Daguva and the type of person he had become. Hell, Yusuke was literally ending someone else's' smile during that entire confrontation, something I imagine he never thought he'd have to do.
Quote:
Quote:
When I saw Episode 47's opening, I was deeply confused. I could have sworn I missed an episode with everything that was happening and had to double check my numbers and how many times I'd clicked 'next', but, nope -- this is how we were opening.
Quote:
He's determined to turn this power into a positive in any way he can; he refuses even at Kuuga's worst points to see it as the ultimate darkness. He refuses to give in to the idea that it's inherently a terrible thing -- he's going to go against everything that's been said and make Kuuga a beacon of hope that shines through the darkness.
Quote:
I'm not sure if anyone on this forum knows him, but there's this guy called KTJ-Taka that runs a shop for Toku toys. He also does quite a few youtube videos, and in one of the more recent ones I've seen; he talks a fair bit about how Kuuga was his first series, and how much he loved it and how new it was. And now he's grown up and it's made him so happy, he went out of his way to make a store specifically to sell Toku items to people outside of Japan who want them but have trouble getting them.
Thank you for bringing this up! Quote:
And one way I know it was so important to me? ... this is gonna sound beyond corny, but ever since I watched Kuuga, I've been finding myself doing thumbs ups so much more whenever I can.
Quote:
Quote:
133 feels very low; sure you didn't miss any?
__________________
|
05-20-2020, 10:00 PM | #245 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
|
Quote:
Mods, please delete thread.
__________________
Currently working on: Go-Busters is next! Archive of previous shows on KamenRiderDie.com! |
05-20-2020, 10:02 PM | #246 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,290
|
Didn't think I will do this here, but can you answer to some of my replies and question above? (If you can't ok, just want to clarify) Really invested into the Gadoru part, before going into the best portrayal of final form in the franchise ever.
|
05-21-2020, 12:46 AM | #247 |
take me to space
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,406
|
Kuuga is actually really cool... I am pretty sure I caught on to the themes and such when I first watched the show sometime in 2013 or whenever it was, but it was only much later with the hindsight of so many series after it that I think I really appreciate it not just as a show but as a vision.
The people working on this show absolutely wanted to create a story that was important and meaningful above all else, setting out to be something special before a product, and they put a lot of care into that craft which I have to admire and respect even if some choices didn't resonate with me. I don't want to sound like some kind of hipster by implying present-day Kamen Rider doesn't have plenty of pathos still though, and I honestly wouldn't trade away all the in-your-face merchandising. I guess maybe my recent issues with Zero-One are making me wistful towards shows with stronger core themes and a desire to maximise it's potential. Alright, Fish Sandwich, what this thread really needs is you revealing and showing off how much Kuuga merch you've collected. I'll be disappointed if you don't own at least three different figures. |
05-21-2020, 06:59 AM | #248 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 2,551
|
Well, since you’re at the end, I think I’ll do what I did on kissasian at the end of my watch and share my thoughts for the whole show. In fact, I’ll just quote my post from there.
Quote:
Have to say, I’ve never really gelled with this series. Yusuke just isn’t my type of main character and the plot was incredibly hard to follow. I probably wouldn’t rewatch this.
Last edited by Androzani84; 05-21-2020 at 07:03 AM.. |
05-21-2020, 08:15 AM | #249 |
Some guy. I'm alright.
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,417
|
Quote:
Thank you so much for doing all this! Kuuga was... not my bag. I'm not sure if it's the sort of thing that improves on later viewings? There's a lot of stuff that got talked about here that... there's a way that knowing the whole picture makes it easier to see how all of the pieces fit. Knowing what kind of story it is makes watching it easier, better, and I feel like I couldn't get on that wavelength as I watched it for the first time. Or, I don't know. Maybe just wasn't for me!
Been slowly rewatching via the Shout Factory subs, and yeah, Fish wasn't exaggerating; It's a HUGE improvement. It's definitely better a second time around if only due to the improved script alone. Quote:
DreamSword went into a very good speech about how Amazing Mighty's bright red eyes symbolise the light of Yusuke shining through the darkness of Kuuga; never giving up and never giving into his worst emotions. And that's exactly what I see in the Ultimate Form he takes up here -- yes, of course, immediately after he has an ugly, awful, bloody, teary brawl with Daguva. Yes, he has to use terrible, demonic power. Yes, he has to kill. But he's refusing to do more than that.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurona
Kuuga, in the real world, had become a hero and a source of hope and kindness to so many children in Japan. An effect that I still see today -- I'm not sure if anyone on this forum knows him, but there's this guy called KTJ-Taka that runs a shop for Toku toys. He also does quite a few youtube videos, and in one of the more recent ones I've seen; he talks a fair bit about how Kuuga was his first series, and how much he loved it and how new it was. And now he's grown up and it's made him so happy, he went out of his way to make a store specifically to sell Toku items to people outside of Japan who want them but have trouble getting them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich
I'm actually going to take the liberty of just putting that video right here, because it's only four minutes, and very relevant to the topic at hand. Why listen to me tell you about how Japanese kids in 2000 were struck by how fresh and different Kuuga was, and how much their dads who watched Rider growing up thought it was cool, when you can hear it first-hand?
Thank you for bringing this up! I support this. And if you somehow don't have any, well, that can be fixed once Quarantine is over~ |
05-21-2020, 09:54 AM | #250 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 104
|
I'll always have fond memories of watching Kuuga as a kid (goddamn, it's actually 18 years ago) who didn't even begin to notice all the cool symbolic stuff mentioned here, but had a super fun ride nonetheless. There's something of a 'you just had to be there' feeling at the time, when Kamen Rider finally returns, was really cool and popular, and was totally different and awesome shit back then. When I rewatched Kuuga as an adult about couple of years ago, I may not had the same amount of fun and exhilaration anymore, but at the same time I also gained newfound appreciation for its many idiosyncrasies.
This thread would be an awesome companion piece for my next rewatch with the new and improved sub. Great job to everyone involved |
|
TokuNation News & Rumors |
ToyRise RyuKenDo |
Alternative Cut of "Day Of The Dumpster" Released |
Shodo SUPER Kyoryuger Teaser |
Figuarts/Seihou GRIDMAN |
SH Figuarts BoonBoomger Red |
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:49 AM.
|