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03-13-2020, 03:20 PM | #21 |
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Just have to say that I’m 13 episodes into this show and so far, I’m NOT enjoying this.
None of the characters are resonating with me at all. Shinji comes off as a very generic guy, REN comes off as an insufferable asshole, ORE Journal strike me as a VERY bad attempt at comic relief (at least Metalder knew to get rid of the bad comic relief when it became clear they weren’t working. Unfortunately, Ore are here for the whole shebang) and I’ll talk about the other characters I have opinions on when they’re introduced. But moving away from my wittering, I think I’ll share this bit of trivia, cribbed from TV Tropes. Quote:
How different Ryuki was when it was new is something that goes over the heads of many because many of its ideas remained in the franchise. Non-insectoid Riders? Only Agito ever changed that. Carrying around a Transformation Trinket in their pockets like it's Super Sentai? That was out of the blue. Highlander-like plot? That's the one part that wasn't touched again until Gaim. Black and Gray Morality was also new to the series. Even the Theme Song being less 'root for the hero' and more 'J-pop song that sorta touches on the series' themes' was new. Today this series is a lot less idiosyncratic because the aforementioned elements stuck, to the point of being quite passé. But when Ryuki was new, it was very much Kamen Rider In Name Only, with nothing but the main duo having the Rider 1 and 2 poses to suggest that it was supposed to be a KR series.
* In fact, the reason The Movie is an alternate ending without going into a full-on Elseworld (like the other KR movies of the decade) or an extra-long episode (like most Toku films) is because they didn't know they were going to get a full season at that point. |
03-13-2020, 03:25 PM | #22 |
take me to space
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,406
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That paragraph from tvtropes is verging on spoilers. EDIT: well, one spoiler anyhow about the nature of the movie.
Last edited by FreshToku; 03-13-2020 at 03:32 PM.. |
03-13-2020, 03:33 PM | #23 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
Just have to say that I’m 13 episodes into this show and so far, I’m NOT enjoying this.
None of the characters are resonating with me at all. Shinji comes off as a very generic guy, REN comes off as an insufferable asshole, ORE Journal strike me as a VERY bad attempt at comic relief (at least Metalder knew to get rid of the bad comic relief when it became clear they weren’t working. Unfortunately, Ore are here for the whole shebang) and I’ll talk about the other characters I have opinions on when they’re introduced. For me, I think there's some interesting shading to the characters that elevates them from stock types. Shinji's role as Kamen Rider Novice is fun to watch, with him getting a little more well-rounded with each episode. Ren, I think the fact that he seems to be a good-natured dismissive asshole is kind of great (like, his rivalry with Shinji seems to almost make him laugh?), and the ORE Journal scenes haven't worn out their welcome with me yet. (Those gags are nowhere near as abysmal and mistimed as the curry shop scenes from Kuuga. That's, like, the low bar any comedy in Kamen Rider has to clear for me to be able to tolerate it.) Sorry that you're having trouble connecting with the characters. Maybe they'll start to work for you soon? Curious how you're enjoying the other parts of the show. To my eye, the fights are lot more dynamic and entertaining than Agito's were. The pacing also seems a little bit more considered, with a decent amount of plot movement already. And, yeah, this show definitely added in a lot of what I consider "modern Kamen Rider". Kuuga was too raw for me to enjoy, and Agito was compelling for how much heart they added to the formula, but Ryuki is very much to my tastes when it comes to Kamen Rider. Thanks for giving your thoughts on it!
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03-13-2020, 06:06 PM | #24 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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I find it somewhat ironic that you call Shinji generic right before quoting that bit from TV Tropes about how easy it is to take how fresh Ryuki was for granted. Like, obviously he's a protagonist who takes a lot of notes from a lot of other protagonists, but up until Ryuki, none of those were from Kamen Rider.
A hero who was a hopeless everyman with a penchant for obnoxious snoring was so out there after an entire era of cool, reliable big brother types, and two shows straight of seemingly perfect saints. I think you can really tell from the way he's portrayed just how much fun the show was having with the chance to play around with the tropes that come with a character like Shjnji, and I think that makes him still stand out fairly well, no matter how ubiquitous his archetype is.
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03-13-2020, 06:42 PM | #25 |
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MASKED RIDER RYUKI EPISODE 4
I wish this episode didn't feel so much like it was ticking things off of a checklist. Like, this is totally the Two Riders Join Forces episode. The beats of it are pretty predictable in a superheroes-fight-but-then-team-up way, and I'm not sure the execution feels unique enough, even this early in its establishment as a Kamen Rider Thing. Shinji and Ren start the episode as rivals, and end the episode as two men who intensely dislike each other but probably won't try to kill each other for a little bit. It's an improvement, for sure. I'll give the show credit, in that it's basically the second ever Rider show to have to team up two Riders, so it shouldn't feel as stock as it does, but it's still got too many weird echoes with Agito. There's a little too much of Shinji coming off as a Shouichi-ish I'm Fighting To Protect People And Don't Understand Personal Boundaries, while Ren's repping hard for Ryo's team of Life Is Pain. Shinji's aggression and suspicion is unique, as is Ren's take-charge way of getting Shinji to quit, but it didn't feel like more than the obligatory team-up to me. It played like Mean Rider and Nice Rider had to find some way to work together, and I felt like I just saw a bunch of that in the second half of Agito. Like, I knew the destination, and the journey didn't feel personal enough. It completely doesn't help that Shinji kind-of comes off like an asshole in this one. He immediately assumes that Ren is trying to kill children, despite only having a contract monster for a minute. And he dismisses the There Are Other Monsters theory with a certainty that feels radically unearned. (He's supremely confident in his brand-new abilities. I'm a little shocked he doesn't activate an Um Actually Vent during a fight!) Worse, he goes to Yui and tells her that the man she's fought with is untrustworthy, according to a man she just met yesterday, and he's stunned that she doesn't just go along with it. There's a... maybe there's an innocence, a forthrightness that the show's trying to imbue Shinji with, some way of contrasting him with the taciturn and withholding Ren, but it feels like the show shoots WAY past that to land on Shinji Knows Best About Everything. It's not a good look! Things end fine, though. The scene with Ren and Shinji is the by-nowadays-standard What Are You Fighting For argument Riders have as, like, their way of saying hello. (They also do the Rider Handshake, aka A Punch In The Face.) Ren's a character that has a mysterious but undoubtedly compelling reason to fight and die (and kill?) as a Kamen Rider, while Shinji's still a bit in that questing phase, defining himself more in the moment with his choices, rather than a larger rock-solid ethos. Previously, he was swayed by Reiko and Yui's desperation to get to the truth of all of the disappearances, to help heal the people left behind. Now, it's Ren reminding Shinji that heroism isn't his exclusively, that you can disagree with people who want the same things as you. They end in a good place, pissing each other off and making Yui question letting these two idiots get close to her. That expression of hers when she realizes this is her life now! Priceless.
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Currently working on: Go-Busters is next! Archive of previous shows on KamenRiderDie.com! Last edited by Kamen Rider Die; 07-13-2023 at 10:42 PM.. |
03-13-2020, 07:03 PM | #26 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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Androzani: Shinji's generic
Fish: Shinji was fresh Die: Shinji is Agito I just love these threads sometimes
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03-13-2020, 07:22 PM | #27 |
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Location: Oregon
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Oh yeah, Shinji was definitely a bit stupid in that episode with being dead certain that Ren was trying to kill kids and refusing to accept other possibilities. Honestly, Shinji's a bit of an idiot overall. Like Ryuga though, he's a well meaning idiot, and he gets better over time. He's like a big dumb puppy
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03-13-2020, 08:04 PM | #28 |
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There’s a little too much of Shinji coming off as a Shouichi-ish I’m Fighting To Protect People And Don’t Understand Personal Boundaries, while Ren’s repping hard for Ryo’s team of Life Is Pain. Shinji’s aggression and suspicion is unique, as is Ren’s take-charge way of getting Shinji to quit, but it didn’t feel like more than the obligatory team-up to me. It played like Mean Rider and Nice Rider had to find some way to work together, and I felt like I just saw a bunch of that in the second half of Agito. Like, I knew the destination, and the journey didn’t feel personal enough.
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It completely doesn’t help that Shinji kind-of comes off like an asshole in this one. He immediately assumes that Ren is trying to kill children, despite only having a contract monster for a minute. And he dismisses the There Are Other Monsters theory with a certainty that feels radically unearned. (He’s supremely confident in his brand-new abilities. I’m a little shocked he doesn’t activate an Um Actually Vent during a fight!) Worse, he goes to Yui and tells her that the man she’s fought with is untrustworthy, according to a man she just met yesterday, and he’s stunned that she doesn’t just go along with it. There’s a… maybe there’s an innocence, a forthrightness that the show’s trying to imbue Shinji with, some way of contrasting him with the taciturn and withholding Ren, but it feels like the show shoots WAY past that to land on Shinji Knows Best About Everything. It’s not a good look!
That feel when....your supposedly most morally upstanding character....gets called out by their misbehaving (though like how I elaborate from my post from yesterday, I also think Yui is also the most morally upstanding too in the series), like Kiriya lecturing Emu in Ex-Aid. So you also think Shinji's an asshole here for accusing Ren, well I'm kinda someone who will do what Shinji does if someone's that much asshole, like thuggish such as Ren. Also so this is what people mean about "balancing" for the trio, when Ren misbehaves, Yui acts, but when Shinji, the people she defended from him before also misbehaves, she also goes for him. No bias, perfectly balanced, as all things should be. I will also bring out our discussion earlier from the Ghost watch thread which also corresponds well to this moment (as why Yui thinks Shinji is more untrustworthy). Ren's goal is more immediate and personal, while Shinji's seemed less so. With Ren, it's clear what he was fighting for and the lengths he'd go to, there was a clarity to his actions and an energy to the performance that really popped in those early days. Shinji was nice for the sake of being nice, but didn't have a clear agenda, which wasn't as easy to understand. First time Shinji and Yui refer to each other by name, where did they learn that, they never introduced themselves to each other. Probably Shinji hearing Ren calls her, and I guess for Yui, when Shinji gave his ORE Journal card to Ren? Also speaking of hearing someone else's name, how did you miss the RON! RON! RON! moment?!! Another case of Shinji Knows Best About Everything, assumes what he hears is right and going along with it. Quote:
Things end fine, though. The scene with Ren and Shinji is the by-nowadays-standard What Are You Fighting For argument Riders have as, like, their way of saying hello. (They also do the Rider Handshake, aka A Punch In The Face.) Ren’s a character that has a mysterious but undoubtedly compelling reason to fight and die (and kill?) as a Kamen Rider, while Shinji’s still a bit in that questing phase, defining himself more in the moment with his choices, rather than a larger rock-solid ethos. Previously, he was swayed by Reiko and Yui’s desperation to get to the truth of all of the disappearances, to help heal the people left behind. Now, it’s Ren reminding Shinji that heroism isn’t his exclusively, that you can disagree with people who want the same things as you. They end in a good place, pissing each other off and making Yui question letting these two idiots get close to her.
Also Yui already kinda did this in previous episode, just not with them both at once. I'm a bit confused, she says the restaurant is closed, but why they can get in and sip tea and/or eat (dunno if Atori has full lunches, the previous episode only gave cookies)? Quote:
Oh yeah, Shinji was definitely a bit stupid in that episode with being dead certain that Ren was trying to kill kids and refusing to accept other possibilities. Honestly, Shinji's a bit of an idiot overall. Like Ryuga though, he's a well meaning idiot, and he gets better over time. He's like a big dumb puppy
Last edited by DreadBringer; 03-13-2020 at 08:14 PM.. |
03-13-2020, 08:07 PM | #29 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Oh yeah, Shinji was definitely a bit stupid in that episode with being dead certain that Ren was trying to kill kids and refusing to accept other possibilities. Honestly, Shinji's a bit of an idiot overall. Like Ryuga though, he's a well meaning idiot, and he gets better over time. He's like a big dumb puppy
Mostly, though, I like the stuff with Ren from that story a lot more. The actor makes so many smart decisions. He could go over the top, make it seem like Ren's going to eviscerate Shinji, but there's just this feeling I get that Ren think's it's hilarious how ill-equipped and out-of-his-depth Shinji is. I can see Ren thinking, "Holy shit, this dude is going to get himself immediately killed, I have got to see this." Like, he's annoyed at Shinji while Shinji is slowly winning him over. That chemistry, the grudging acceptance that Ren feels himself doling out, it's so solid. That shit, it's totally earned. I don't at all believe in Shinji's dumb choices in the episode when it comes to Ren, but I completely believe in Ren's change(-ish) of heart.
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03-13-2020, 08:18 PM | #30 |
I have a problematic type
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Posts: 10,426
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Ren and Shinji are two of the best bros in all of Kamen Rider. Like Sento/Banjou tier.
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