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08-24-2018, 12:44 AM | #1 |
Junior Member
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How many of you beside being toku fans are also fan of Kung fu or Wuxia fan? For those of you that don't know what Wuxia is, how many of you watch Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon or any Shaw Bros kung fu film?
That video above is from Shaw Bros's 1981 film, Sword Stained with Royal Blood (which in turned was based on a book by a very famous Wuxia author, Jin Yong) I know some people that have compared Toku to Wuxia because of the fantasy martial art fighting like in the case of Super Inframan from Shaw Bros. But is it really fair to compare this fight scene from Zyuranger: to let say this fight scene from the 2006 TV drama from China, Return of the Condor Heroes: Yeah, Wuxia and Toku do share a lot in common when it comes to costume fighter, and fantasy martial arts. Would any toku fan considered these fight scene from Wuxia TV drama from China as toku also, like these: So what do you think, do Toku and Wuxia be considered under the same umbrella term when it comes to fantasy martial arts? |
08-24-2018, 01:34 AM | #2 |
Stronger Than You
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It's all toku, as toku is merely just the use of special effects.
Most people just use toku as a catch all for henshin heroes and kaiju series.
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08-24-2018, 08:47 AM | #3 |
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Quote:
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08-24-2018, 11:43 AM | #4 |
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I feel like Toku is movies and shows only made in Japan. I can name several movies from Japan that don't have Kaiju or Superheroes that are Toku. I feel like Dairanger and Yamato Takeru (Orochi, the Eight-Headed Dragon) are the closest thing to Japanese Wuxia Toku.
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08-24-2018, 12:22 PM | #5 |
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I would like to politely reply no.
The reason I disagree is because I think Wu Xia is its own unique genre with heavy emphasis on stunning martial arts choreography, tropes, and narratives primarily set in China than special effects. They can still have special effects as much as they want, but that is not the prime focus of that genre. Tokusatsu on the other hand is best described I think as a special effects-heavy live action film/TV media genre rooted in the aspects and methods of Japanese special effects film production. And I think limiting to Japan-only is wrong because despite not being from Japan stuff like France Five, Battle Strike Team: Giant Saver series, Legend Hero are toku technically just to name a few. It would be like saying chow mein and zarusoba are the same thing because they are categorized under noodles, when really they are not considering their origins and the way they are prepped, served, and eaten.
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Last edited by Sunred; 08-24-2018 at 12:52 PM.. |
08-24-2018, 01:25 PM | #6 |
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Quote:
Quote:
I would like to politely reply no.
The reason I disagree is because I think Wu Xia is its own unique genre with heavy emphasis on stunning martial arts choreography, tropes, and narratives primarily set in China than special effects. They can still have special effects as much as they want, but that is not the prime focus of that genre. Tokusatsu on the other hand is best described I think as a special effects-heavy live action film/TV media genre rooted in the aspects and methods of Japanese special effects film production. And I think limiting to Japan-only is wrong because despite not being from Japan stuff like France Five, Battle Strike Team: Giant Saver series, Legend Hero are toku technically just to name a few. It would be like saying chow mein and zarusoba are the same thing because they are categorized under noodles, when really they are not considering their origins and the way they are prepped, served, and eaten. You know what that Japanese film from Toho reminds me of: Zu Warriors from the Magic Mountain from 1983: When I watched both of them, it's hard to tell if I should labeled them as either Wuxia or Toku because of the supernatural element and emphasis on martial arts. I understand the narrative and trope can be different. But my point is that there are time when Wuxia borderline to Toku territory, and the definition can get blurred like take this 1990 Wuxia drama from HK, The Gods and Demons of Zu Mountain: This wuxia had a "sentai"-like element in this show, and the antagonist in this series is similar to the villain you would see in Super Sentai/Kamen Rider. So this is why some wuxia shows and some toku do sometime blur their definition. So when Wuxia start borderlining to Toku. That's where the definition of toku and wuxia get blurred because they both use martial arts and special effect along with supernatural or fantasy element. I don't care if it's from Japan or China, if you're creating a toku-Wuxia hybrid show, then should it be called Toku, Wuxia, or both? Dairanger is probably the only Super Sentai which I would labeled as Wuxia like Guyver Spawn mentioned. But at the same time, The Gods and Demons of Zu Mountain is a Sentai-inspired wuxia show. So this is where the definition of Wuxia and toku gets blurred. |
08-24-2018, 07:36 PM | #7 |
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Yeah, these probably I would categorize as Wu Xia with Tokusatsu elements. Yamato Takeru I probably would not categorize as Wu Xia but specifically Japanese fantasy with Tokusatsu elements. Cause Wu Xia to me is more aligned with heroics of Chinese martial artists/heroes set primarily in China.
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Last edited by Sunred; 08-24-2018 at 07:42 PM.. |
08-26-2018, 04:49 PM | #8 |
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Quote:
Yeah, these probably I would categorize as Wu Xia with Tokusatsu elements. Yamato Takeru I probably would not categorize as Wu Xia but specifically Japanese fantasy with Tokusatsu elements. Cause Wu Xia to me is more aligned with heroics of Chinese martial artists/heroes set primarily in China.
This one used a lot of similar special effect found in toku shows (ie: suitmation used for monsters, special lighting to portray power charge). Although like you, I would considered that show as wuxia with toku element. But in my opinion, I still think the definition of wuxia and toku get blurred. Believe me, I do watch a lot of toku shows, but I also grew up watching a lot of Wuxia TV dramas and from my experience, they look a lot alike and that's how I end up with my thought about toku and wuxia definition getting blurred. Wuxia although is exclusive to Chinese, other countries have started to make their own wuxia like the Matrix for example. Also here is South Korea doing a wuxia film: So Wuxia is no longer exclusive to to Chinese now that South Korea has done one (and they may do it in the future). |
04-30-2020, 10:18 AM | #9 |
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I know it's been 2 years since I written my last post. But it looks like I'm not the only one that have asked the question if wuxia should be considered being put in the tokusatsu category. That category has been revisited again (along with some fantasy K-drama and C-drama), and now with some obscure shows from Taiwan, Hong Kong being uploaded, this would make people debate if wuxia should be classify under tokusatsu category, take the 1991's Zu Mountain Saga, a series from Hong Kong:
Yeah, this show has a lot of toku-like special effect. Even the show's storyline may remind you of Super Sentai, even has "Sentai" like element like good vs evil. the good guys in the show are a team like a sentai squad despite they have no henshin morph. They all had special weapons. Even the villains look like something out of sentai/power rangers, as a matter of fact, you might think you're watching a Super Sentai show from Hong Kong yet it's different and unique from Sentai. Zu Mountain Saga doesn't have a monster of the week, the story is more complex, and episodes are connected and has a arc, no stand-alone episodes like Sentai or any Japanese toku. See this is where the question is raised when you watch the first episode, should a wuxia show like Zu Mountain Saga be given a tokusatsu classification because of the Super Sentai element and toku style special effect found in the show? If this was given was a toku classification, what about other fantasy wuxia like Ice Fantasy? Is Ice Fantasy now a tokusatsu? |
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