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08-13-2019, 05:18 PM | #31 |
Ex-Weather Three leader
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,527
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Spoken like a true poet.
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08-13-2019, 06:20 PM | #32 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Birth will always be in my top 5 for secondary Riders. My secondary list:
1: Grease 2: Birth 3: Spectre 4: Mach/Chase 5: Baron IXA is also up there somewhere with Beast in the 6-10 of that list, but Birth is without a doubt one of my favorites. Looking forward to what you think after Ghost. Considering Ex-Aid followed after, looking back it's not impossible to consider watching Ghost again, albeit with considerably less judgement from when it was airing. I think Ghost is a lot easier for me to take than it likely was for all of you because I'm (relatively) burning through them. If I had a week to stew over each episode, as opposed to just jumping to the next one, I'd probably be a lot more down on it. Maybe it's worth a rewatch?
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08-13-2019, 07:39 PM | #33 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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There's really no getting around that Ghost just doesn't have that. The scope of its world is ironically a lot more narrow despite having an entire otherworldly society as a major fixture of the setting, and it definitely hurts the believability of a lot of the cast. Especially poor bit players like Shibuya and Narita. In retrospect this is probably a huge reason it doesn't register on any real emotional level with so many people. It's easy to notice you're watching a TV show when you're watching Ghost. Remember though: everything looks crappier up against OOO! And Ghost did have the attention to detail to give the freakin' mailman regular cameos (Until he kinda fell by the wayside...), so it's not all bad. At any rate, I can't disagree on this point so much as say it's not a deal-breaker for me personally. Onari in particular also has an actual motivation for obsessing over Takeru the way he does, so I'm certainly letting him off the hook. Quote:
Emu was a doctor before he got his Driver, and he's a doctor while he's a Kamen Rider, and he's a doctor after his show ends. That part of his character informs his need to be a Kamen Rider. He needs to save people, and he's doing it all day regardless of the Bugster Virus.
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I know you've said before you liked how Haruto was always out on patrol for Phantoms, so is that basically the gist of it here? Just show Takeru looking for trouble every now and then? Quote:
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The only thing that tortures me about Ghost's spin-offs is knowing Over-Time still hasn't subbed the Specter movie.
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08-13-2019, 08:54 PM | #34 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
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Granted, Takeru doesn't actually have a day job, but first of all, being dead will do that to a guy, and second of all, he still does have something that informs his character in that same way you're talking about. Not only does he want to follow in his father's footsteps as a ghost hunter (which, again, I will grant you is not the most realistic occupation to have, but I can't think of a Rider protagonist besides Takeru who has a properly developed relationship with an actual parent, and that was another element of Ghost I've always really enjoyed), but he's also the heir to his family's straight up Buddhist temple, and that clearly has a huge influence on him. We see him meditating and the like frequently throughout the series, and his entire philosophy of life, along with the show's overall themes, is shaped by that in a way that just makes me feel uncomfortable brushing off Takeru's motivations as being generic or half-baked.
Anyway, sorry I inadvertently proved GOOOdwin's law, "As an online Kamen Rider discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving OOO approaches 1."
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08-13-2019, 09:08 PM | #35 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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I mean being fair, Fish is just a massive OOO fan and rewatched it recently. Though, like, can you blame him? It is the best Rider show
I do see what you're getting at though. Takeru does have goals and a life outside his ridering - or, uh, he doesn't have life, but... you get what I mean - but it's just that it's not seen or communicated in an active capacity. As I recall it's mostly his crossover appearances that express this a lot more, even if just in a small sense - Heisei Generations Final shows him looking after the temple in his last scene, while Drive/Ghost deals with his legacy a lot more directly. I must admit I'm struggling to remember a point in the series where, even if he expresses care about this stuff; he's actively pursuing following his father's legacy beyond being a rider and doing temple things. He's kind of shown to be doing something like that in the very beginning by researching the luminaries; ie looking into something his father left behind and he feels is important. But it doesn't feel like we get a lot of those moments in the series afterwards. |
08-13-2019, 09:17 PM | #36 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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Eh, I think this is mostly an issue of semantics, given that Akari starts doing that first thing even as she keeps up the second. It was only really the first few episodes where she acted truly skeptical about everything that was going on. And to her credit, the nature of the Ganma means a lot of the ghosts in Ghost, including Takeru, genuinely aren't spirits in the traditional way someone like Onari would assume they are, so, there's that. Though I do feel the last part almost proves my point -- it ends up that the Ganma actually are something that's a lot more easily comparable to things modern science has discovered, and yet her first reaction was to hit it with "it's not what has already been found out, so it can't be real". And no matter how things eventually turned out, it still remains that that's just... not a good representation of science to me, and it's never challenged in any meaningful way. Still though, semantics -- especially when as I said, I do like how she turned out! She's very helpful and is thankfully allowed to be a lot more fun and do a lot more than stand on the sidelines like how certain other female lead characters are treated by certain other rider shows, and I'd like to see the sort of drive and determination her character had a lot more. |
08-13-2019, 10:33 PM | #37 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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i mean being fair, fish is just a massive ooo fan and rewatched it recently. Though, like, can you blame him? It is the best rider show
I do see what you're getting at though. Takeru does have goals and a life outside his ridering - or, uh, he doesn't have life, but... you get what I mean - but it's just that it's not seen or communicated in an active capacity. As I recall it's mostly his crossover appearances that express this a lot more, even if just in a small sense - Heisei Generations Final shows him looking after the temple in his last scene, while Drive/Ghost deals with his legacy a lot more directly. I must admit I'm struggling to remember a point in the series where, even if he expresses care about this stuff; he's actively pursuing following his father's legacy beyond being a rider and doing temple things. He's kind of shown to be doing something like that in the very beginning by researching the luminaries; ie looking into something his father left behind and he feels is important. But it doesn't feel like we get a lot of those moments in the series afterwards. Also, you made me realize something that maybe explains the way some people can be, like, "Takeru doesn't have goals", while other people can be all "He totally has goals": his goals as a spiritual character are inherently difficult to dramatize. If (if) we're meant to see his adult growth as being connected to his Buddhist beliefs, how the eff do you portray that in a 22-minute television show that's designed to make children ask their parents to buy them toys? That is a high goddamn bar to clear! "I want to make friends" or "I want to be a better doctor", these are easy things to communicate as goals, and easy things to show when a character is more skilled at them. Is Takeru getting 1.5% more enlightened each episode? Is that what he means by wanting to make his life burn bright? His enlightenment? Did... did we just crack this thing wide open?!
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08-15-2019, 11:26 PM | #38 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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KAMEN RIDER GHOST EPISODE 24 / ANIMAL TEENS SUPER-HERO DANCE PROGRAM EPISODE 07
Y'know, not bad. Dopey as hell, but a pretty fun two-episode lark. That tonal whiplash, though! I've only seen a few Sentai episodes, and only as a result of Kamen Rider crossovers, but (and I don't mean this as an insult, I swear): they seem pretty juvenile? Like, Kamen Rider is a show for children, but Sentai seems like a show for children. The main heroes seem way goofier than I'm used to from Rider shows. Like, are they all comedy relief? Is it just heightened from the crossoverness of these types of episodes? I don't know if I'm seeing the normal version of these characters or not. Was this representative of the Animal Teens Super-Hero Dance Program, or not? I sort-of assume it was, because virtually nothing about this episode of Ghost seemed different. I mean, sure, Animal Teen Red shows up for a fight, and there's a Go See The New Movie Featuring Shocker guy, but the rest of it was pretty heavy on the melodrama and arc stuff that the show normally deals in. Which, how the hell would this play for someone who just watches the Sentai programs and checked in with this one episode of Ghost? They spell nothing out for you. Animal Teens, at least that was early enough in the season where they could get away with a monster-of-the-week plot and no arc stuff I could notice. (Again, I don't know these shows, so maybe it's all monster-of-the-week and no arc stuff?) I was able to watch the Animal Teens episode cold and follow the character relationships pretty easily (they are very broadly sketched) and get a whole story. The Ghost episode was just "this guy you don't know gets possessed, this other guy you don't know is being hunted, some other guy got killed last week but he's not really dead, some other other guy is in a dark room and he cares about some other room that isn't working right, TUNE IN NEXT WEEK." I mean, not new-viewer friendly. Weird choice. Still, I had fun. It sucks that the show needed to move Makoto off-screen for a bit, but I'm psyched for more Alain. He's maybe my favorite character on the show right now?
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08-16-2019, 12:23 AM | #39 |
Bat Hero
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 296
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I'm totally going to check that out when I finish the series! I'm always curious about why people love art that doesn't completely work for me. If you don't mind me asking, is there a non-spoiler way you could tell me why you love Ghost? Or is it all in the back-half?
Thanks again for that link! But I guess the simplest way to describe it is... it makes me happy. The cast is amazing. The fights and suits are cool. Especially the final form. The midseason powerup incorporates an idea I'd love to see replicated in later series, but hasn't. The lore is epic. The Ganma are some pretty cool villains; they even have tier levels~ And I personally thought the latter half of the show was pretty awesome. I mean, I binged most of the last 12 episodes in one night, and not not once did I get infuriated. |
08-16-2019, 12:31 AM | #40 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Yeah, I'm just entering the back half right now and it doesn't seem so bad? I definitely like the 2nd quarter more than the first quarter, that's for sure.
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