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06-12-2020, 07:12 AM | #631 |
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Oh? Surprised no one talked about one of my absolute favorite parts of the episode: Kaixa's phone ringing while being attached to the belt. That juxtaposition between the mundane and the fantastical. That's exactly what this show is all about.
Last edited by Actar; 06-12-2020 at 07:19 AM.. |
06-12-2020, 08:34 AM | #632 |
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I mean, you did ask about why Takumi's the chosen one, the one that can be Faiz, while Mari and Keitaro can't. This is the answer. Though for the others you mentioned like Kusaka, you aren't that wrong either. And you saying the protagonist should have standard protagonist strength that Keitaro lacks? It's all clear now! Takkun's an Orphnoch! Which gives him some strength even in human form to knock off some Orphnochs before!
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It helps that it’s not like the show was killing time before this reveal. Not in general for the series (well, the last couple episodes weren’t my favorites), and not for this episode. There was a lot I would’ve normally written about this episode, before the last couple minutes played.
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Honestly, no, it doesn't matter that much to me if it's a huge mystery that the main character doesn't have a stake in. If it's just a couple episodes, fine. An arc, okay. But a series-long mystery that's only viscerally important to supporting cast members? No, not for me.
The fact that some of the Ryusei School kids that show up to visit Mari in the hospital are brand-new is hilarious to me. Where are they coming from? Why did they show up for this, but none of the other tense situations? Is it a roster that they're moving down? Do they have on-days and off-days, and this was the on-day for Mihara and the other three? I don't get that group's structure at all. Actually I was more intrigued by his capabilities as a monster, because it's so unknown to me, like he's not playable in the PS2 game. Honestly he has more unique abilities like the blue energy, the sting tongue, and rose projectiles.
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06-12-2020, 10:13 AM | #633 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 182
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After years of people turning their noses up at Faiz, it is a real joy to read so many positive thoughts and feelings about one of my favorite Rider shows. I hope the eventual Kabuto and Kiva threads get this kind of love.
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06-12-2020, 11:56 AM | #634 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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I'm so happy the Orphenoch has blown your mind the way it should! I don't actually remember what at all my own reaction to this was, I may have already known the twist beforehand? It is a really good twist though, that adds a juicy layer of context to previous scenes.
So while all that is happening, I want to mention how I absolutely do remember some of my feelings regarding that Delta stuff. First of all, Kitazaki just throwing away the belt is certainly unexpected, but like, why though. I was just getting used to Delta as this really menacing villain and then 'nah'. At the same time, I was also in the same boat as you as when those two Ryusei people came to visit Mari in the hospital, I also didn't know whether they had shown up before or if they were new, so I kinda didn't bother registering them in my mind. That's why when one of them started talking about he didn't want any part of this, I was just like 'good for you, bye'. But then it turns out that's an actual character arc the show was playing out, and I was seriously baffled because with all the other stuff happening in the show, I had no idea why the show kept cutting back to the plight of a random guy whose name I didn't even remember. But then he gets casually handed the Delta Gear and I was like 'wait... Is he just gonna be Delta from now on??? I guess I gotta catch his name now...'. It bordered on surreal to me. If Kitazaki had to arbitrarily throw away the belt, and if it had to find one consistent user instead of just being passed around... I figured it would maybe to go someone on Team Orphenoch, or Keitaro (I'm not even gonna pretend Mari is an option...). Quote:
Takumi being an Orphnoch is -definitely- one of the show's best twists, and I'm so happy it wasn't spoiled for you; these days it's just one of those spoilers that gets thrown out there as basic knowledge among fans even by official media, just like how Blade i̸̛̺̪̞̞̩̗̙̩̝͇̗͖̰̱͖͍͘ͅn̶̯̣̰̠̳̠̩͕̗͇͞F̵̵̢͙͈̖̱͖̼o̵̧̭̲͙͈̮̰͚̳̗̻͈͡R̡͍̖̲̣̥͙̲͚̣͖̺̪̫͢͠ͅM̶̡̦͉̙̳A̛̳̺̗̗͕̙͈͎̮͉̰͔͖t̶̨̛̳̜̘̦͉̭͓͝͞i̸̡̤̯̞̥͜͟O̢͞͏҉̦̝̪̩͉̤̼̲͓̼̘͕̣̱̺̖ͅņ̸̶̛̭͚̗͍̫̹̺̤͍̺͍͖̣͉̥̫͘ ̵͔̬̤̥͇̣́̕͢W̦̻͉̞̺̩̞̜̪͙̯͓͞I̛̗̖̤͉̦̳̝͙͝t̡҉͍̣̫̘̥̳͔̗̠̼͔̤̭̗̫̼̟̳̕h҉̷̛̭̺͖̻̠Ȩ̨͏̛͇͇͉͎̲̜̼͎̜͖̜ļ̸̛͡͏̲̺̭̪̳͓̱D̷̡̡̺̩̙̫̮̖̹͇̘͓̳͉̟̕̕
So I'm really glad you get to just enjoy this as is because I really, really liked it. I guess it's a little harder to appreciate now but "Kamen Rider has been the monster the whole time" is... not exactly new to the franchise, but it wasn't ever done as directly and as obviously as this and especially in such a way that recontextualises it all. It's one of those things about Faiz that I can't deny is great! Still, hey, thanks everybody for letting me discover it on my own! You're all the best! Quote:
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This is part of what I meant. Back in the Showa Era, instead of being an instantly-generated costume, the Rider suit was what they looked like after a surgery to turn them into a monster. The human appearance was the ‘costume’. Here, they make it a more overt-monster, so it stands out. Like a lot of the old-school gang, Kamen Rider Takumi Inui (which by the way, translates as ‘dog’, if you didn’t know) is a modified human who fights for humanity’s freedom against an evil secret organisation, using their own technology.
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Kamen Rider's a real fun franchise! It's awesome to be able to talk about it with others! Good work, everybody!
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06-12-2020, 01:32 PM | #635 |
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Also, now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure that fact never comes up in Takumi's reappearances in Kamen Rider Taisen and the like? Which, if I'm not just forgetting something (it was maybe in Kamen Rider 4?), serious props to Toei for not just defining his entire character by that one big twist.
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06-12-2020, 01:38 PM | #636 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Everybody was very cool about keeping the Takkun: Orphnoch! reveal under wraps. I really appreciate it!
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Also, now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure that fact never comes up in Takumi's reappearances in Kamen Rider Taisen and the like? Which, if I'm not just forgetting something (it was maybe in Kamen Rider 4?), serious props to Toei for not just defining his entire character by that one big twist.
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06-12-2020, 02:21 PM | #637 |
Dai Shogun
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 7,526
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I guess you're ready for this image now?
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06-12-2020, 02:40 PM | #638 |
Standing By
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 2,089
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--1--
If I was a betting man, my money would’ve been on Kusaka as a secret Orphnoch. That idea, of him being an Orphnoch who loathes other Orphnochs, it’s poetic. It feels like it’d be how Kusaka would deal with his turmoil, you know? If I was spreading that money around, I’d probably play the range of the Ryusei School alumni all being secret Orphnochs. Mari, for sure, after last episode. I mean, the first episode of the show has a dead person getting up as an Orphnoch, so why not now? Also, Orphan Daddy is a big ol’ Orphnoch, and we’ve still got no idea what he’s been up to all this time, so maybe he did some secret surgeries to make them all Orphnochs? Or there’s the reunion no one will talk about, maybe they all got turned there? So, yeah, those were my Back Of The Mind guesses. Nothing I was certain of, but definitely things I felt like the story was supporting. Takumi, though. I mean, goddamn. Quote:
--3--
It helps that it’s not like the show was killing time before this reveal. Not in general for the series (well, the last couple episodes weren’t my favorites), and not for this episode. There was a lot I would’ve normally written about this episode, before the last couple minutes played. Stuff about how Takumi’s heroism has a purity that Kusaka’s lacks, based on what each man will do to save a friend. Takumi doesn’t wallow in self-loathing, despite Someone Is Dead Because They Were My Friend being his worst nightmare. He gets his ass kicked by multiple people, but that’s only when he thinks there’s nothing left for Mari but his penance. As soon as an opportunity presents itself, he’s all in. Even when it’s a plan that Kusaka’s like This Almost Definitely Won’t Work, Takumi wants to try it anyway. And, man, Kusaka has a point about it being sort-of a leap, plan-wise, but he doesn’t bail because the plan wouldn’t work. He bails because if the plan does work, he can’t be Kaixa anymore. He tells everyone that Mari means everything to him, but in this one he confronts the reality that he loves being Kaixa, that he wants to destroy Smart Brain, more than he loves Mari. It’s a great way to reassert Takumi’s core heroism at a time where he only wants to be seen as a failure, and to reassert Kusaka’s selfishness when everyone views him as their savior. Or, I could’ve talked about how Mari’s death doesn’t feel that much like a fridging, since it’s not really about vengeance, it’s about grief. It motivates Kusaka and Takumi to try and save her, but that’s around the edges. Most of the episode is about Takumi’s self-hatred and grief, or Kusaka discovering the primacy of his need to be powerful over his need to possess Mari. It succeeds dramatically by treating Mari’s death as a real, sincere thing. Saving her, bringing her back, it’s viewed as nearly impossible. She’s allowed some dignity, rather than immediately becoming some totem of Manly Suffering. Like, her death means something because Mari meant something, not because it empowers someone else. It’s a fine line, maybe, but I thought the show stayed on the right side of it. Remember how Orphenochs have hypersensitivity? Kiba can see further and hear louder. Kaido can detect scents. Takumi is a nekojita and his hands are apparently sensitive to heat as well. It might just be a quirk he's always had though, considering Saya was a human and a nekojita. But it might not! I'm sure Kusaka enjoys being powerful, but he also seemed burdened by that power when he was angrily throwing the Gears out of Side Basshar. It's more like he needs to be Kaixa. He wants to destroy Smart Brain, not help them, even if it means he can't be with Mari. This is another rare moment where he's sympathetic. Mari's death has only fueled his hatred of Smart Brain and his primary goal is no longer to protect Mari. He wants to avenge her. Takumi was desperate. He was determined to bring her back to life no matter what. Kusaka couldn't go through with his plan and that meant he was now the only one who was willing to do it. Until now, he had kept his Orphenoch nature a secret from everybody out of shame, but this time he needed to become the monster once more. It adds a whole new layer of meaning to his interaction with Orphenochs. Like Kiba, Takumi wants to hold on to his humanity but he fears that someday he'll turn bad like Sawada and betray the people he cares about. He sees the sins of his kind as a reflection of himself and what he might become which is why he wants to believe that they can be good. Quote:
--5--
Hard to talk about that other stuff, because Takumi is/was an Orphnoch! That… I feel like I’ve barely talked about anything else in this episode (that was largely good, save for any of the scenes with just the Ryusei kids) because, like, that ending! (I mean, I didn't do more than touch on Yuuji starting to figure out he's been wrong about Takumi, and that's my favorite character pairing!) Takumi’s an Orphnoch! Holy shit!
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06-12-2020, 02:54 PM | #639 |
Master Procrastinator
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 367
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I actually thought they already explained why Kusaka can use the belt. Let's just say that the Faiz and Kaixa belts are only supposed to be usable by Orphanochs, but there may or may not be a loophole. The Delta belt has no such restrictions though.
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06-12-2020, 02:55 PM | #640 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Fantastic.
Along those lines, I spent a minute last night trying to find a screencap of Keitaro saying Takkun Orphnoch. I didn't want to scrub through a crazy amount of episodes (it was bedtime for sure), so I just typed Takkun Orphnoch into Google. Holy shit am I glad I didn't do that before watching Episode 34, since 90% of the image results were of Takumi's Orphnoch form. That... I would not have expected that search to generate a spoiler! Quote:
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I love how last episode you were like "I don't want to talk about cliffhanger" and now you can barely talk about anything except the cliffhanger. I understand though. Mari's death was a major escalation of the plot, but Takumi being an Orphenoch is something else! Nevertheless, I'm glad you were able to find some meaning to Mari's death.
(I'm going to explain this badly.) With a plot concern, the energy is all in How Are They Going To Fix This. It's not so much about the effect it has on the characters, normally. That didn't end up being how the show played it in the follow-up, so there was more to dig into. But in general, those sorts of cliffhangers are something I can only really comment on after they've been resolved. A story concern, it's a lot more interesting to think about or speculate on. Reveals, twists, that sort of thing. The idea of what a development means for the story is more interesting to me than How Will The Hero Survive or whatever. I don't know if that makes any sense! Quote:
Takumi was desperate. He was determined to bring her back to life no matter what. Kusaka couldn't go through with his plan and that meant he was now the only one who was willing to do it. Until now, he had kept his Orphenoch nature a secret from everybody out of shame, but this time he needed to become the monster once more.
It adds a whole new layer of meaning to his interaction with Orphenochs. Like Kiba, Takumi wants to hold on to his humanity but he fears that someday he'll turn bad like Sawada and betray the people he cares about. He sees the sins of his kind as a reflection of himself and what he might become which is why he wants to believe that they can be good.
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