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06-23-2020, 04:00 PM | #841 |
Standing By
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 2,085
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--1--
Oof. Oooooooffffff. Heavy episode, man. Some real joy, and some real darkness. One of my favorite characters gets an end to their story. One of my other favorite characters struggles with their core defect. Kaido abducts a child I guess? It’s a big episode, for good and for ill, for Team Orphnoch. Quote:
--2--
Hey, let’s talk about Yuuji first. Yuuji’s most heroic quality is his belief in people, both singular and plural. He has friends and family that he’ll fight for, but he’ll also protect total strangers from Orphnochs. Yuuji’s most fatal flaw is that he can’t handle being betrayed. When his compassion is taken advantage of, he’ll straight-up heart-murder someone. So, you can imagine the conflict he feels when it seems like humanity as a whole has betrayed him. Everything he’s been doing for the last year has been to protect humanity, and now he feels like they’re manipulating him, betraying him. Does humanity deserve his help when they’re trying to kill him and his friends? It’s tough to see Yuuji so pitiless, so enraged. (I mean, it’s fun to watch. There’s a really fun almost-single-shot dialogue scene with Takumi and Yuuji in a car that’s a little showy, but still impressive. The way the camera starts on Yuuji’s side and then rotates around the front of the car to end on Takumi answering his phone? Definitely working hard to make that scene pop!) He’s long been the most empathetic, most measured of all the Orphnochs. To see him decide that Orphnoch safety isn’t worth jeopardizing anymore… huge development. The episode doesn’t really get much of a chance to interrogate it, beyond a few characters being unnerved by Yuuji’s new attitude. With Yuuji’s tentative hope that things could improve being assaulted by a ton of snipers, I’m guessing we’ll get to spend a little more time with Angry Yuuji. Quote:
--4--
Hey, let’s talk about Yuka. I mean, it felt like she wasn’t going to make it out of this one. She was so happy. Everything was working out. Dramatically, it all felt like One Last Good Day. And, like, she’s got a date with Keitaro planned? Jesus, was it also her last day before retirement? But it was still a lovely episode for Yuka. She got to have some affection from someone. She spent some time fretting over whether or not she’d ruin Keitaro, before Mari told her to choose happiness instead of misery. And she died like she lived: with someone telling her to just drop dead already. That Kageyama scene! I keep rolling it around in my head. Of all of the last people to see Yuka alive, they made it Kageyama. And she tells Yuka to die, here and now. There’s a clear disappointment to it. Kageyama hoped for so much more from Yuka. Every other young Orphnoch, all of the pretty boys, she’d treat them sweetly, nurture them. With Yuka, she was stern, imperious. She knew that Yuka held back, and it insulted her. She tried to tell her that caring for humanity would get her killed, and it did. So she sees Yuka there, wounded, unable to summon the Orphnoch form that could save her life. And she just watches Yuka. But she changes into an Orphnoch beforehand, and I feel like I know why. I think it’s breaking her heart. I think she saw something in Yuka that she didn’t see in any of those others. She wanted her to succeed in a way she didn’t for any of those others. And this is the end of Yuka’s story. She’ll never be anything more than she already was. She’ll never be the person that Kageyama hoped for, and it’s shameful. It’s a loss for all Orphnochs. I think she’s crying. But, y’know, Yuka isn’t. She’s been through so much, suffered so often, rarely felt accepted. But right at the end, at the very end, she got to live her dream. She was accepted by someone, and she knew she deserved that acceptance. It didn’t last, but dreams rarely do. Saeko having those Kaixabrows is fitting since my hatred for her immediately surpassed my hatred for Kusaka when she killed Yuka. It's the same reaction I always have when a bad guy kills a character I care about. Kudos to Inoue though, he built a very high tower of happiness and then demolished it. He's always breaking my heart like that. At least Yuka got to die happy with a sense of fulfillment. That's the least she deserved after so much suffering in her life. But Keitarou gets left behind and he's going to have to live with the pain of never seeing her again.
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06-23-2020, 04:47 PM | #842 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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I'd really like to support Die's reading of how Yuka... er, died, but the way that sequence emphasizes Kageyama gradually drawing closer and closer, culminating in that almost jump scare style cut where she's suddenly in her Orphenoch form, her face filling most of the frame, definitely gives me the distinct impression she wasn't only watching.
I don't think these two interpretations are all that mutually exclusive though? It's entirely possible whatever final wound Kageyama would've given Yuka, she could've seen it as more of an act of mercy than anything. Her dialogue is angry in tone, but the words themselves speak to somebody who's profoundly disappointed Yuka chose to play out her human life to its inevitable miserable conclusion rather than embracing what she could've been as a top-of-the-food-chain monster who doesn't take anyone's s***. It's hard to say. Kageyama's mind is scary and not something I really want to be all that deep in!
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06-23-2020, 08:16 PM | #843 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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I don't think he's ashamed of being an Orphnoch (what with him objecting taking offense that they need to be made "human" again to be accepted) and more afraid of that darkness in him that he might associate with his Orphnoch side what with both coming to light at the same time in the narrative and that's what he's trying to repress and deny due to it running counter to his true nature. That no matter what he does or says that dark side of him is the correct choice and the sole truth of living as an Orphnoch, that he has to give up his compassion in order to survive. The fact that all of his fears are being played on by this betrayal by Humanity as a whole is tearing him apart and without knowing the truth of Yuka's story in this episode that the guy she likes now is Keitaro the only guy nicer than him.
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What I read in other infos, are that Kageyama killed Yuka. But with the scene actually played out probably it's made more ambiguous. Like others said, Kageyama just watching Yuka died is meant to serve a point where humans (Minami) can be the cruel one. But as the episode played out, it also emphasized the part where Yuka can't henshin (yeah she's not a Rider but that's what she said!), which would serve a point where Yuka cannot defend himself by becoming an Orphnoch from Kageyama's attacks and forced to take it on human form, easier to die. Also the part where Keitaro and Yuka are still sending emails (the one time where phones are used for "unecessary" things) as if it's status quo... they're wasting cellphone credits! (well probably not for Yuka as she's dying). Either way, the vengeance will be coming to the one actually deserved it more next.
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Wow, your take on what happened between Yuka and Saeko is totally different to mine! I doubt Saeko would be so reckless to assume her Orphenoch form just to hide her tears. I'm sure such an act of emotional suppression would make Troy Burrows proud but I'm pretty sure she just killed Yuka. The secret science society reduced her to human and killing humans is part of the job. She may have cared about Yuka's potential and saw herself as a mentor who could nurture it but I doubt she actually cared about Yuka as a person or she would have considered her feelings. Yuka never wanted to hurt anybody, she had a modest desire of living a happy life with the man she fell in love with and Saeko took that away from her.
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I'd really like to support Die's reading of how Yuka... er, died, but the way that sequence emphasizes Kageyama gradually drawing closer and closer, culminating in that almost jump scare style cut where she's suddenly in her Orphenoch form, her face filling most of the frame, definitely gives me the distinct impression she wasn't only watching.
I don't think these two interpretations are all that mutually exclusive though? It's entirely possible whatever final wound Kageyama would've given Yuka, she could've seen it as more of an act of mercy than anything. Her dialogue is angry in tone, but the words themselves speak to somebody who's profoundly disappointed Yuka chose to play out her human life to its inevitable miserable conclusion rather than embracing what she could've been as a top-of-the-food-chain monster who doesn't take anyone's s***. It's hard to say. Kageyama's mind is scary and not something I really want to be all that deep in!
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06-23-2020, 10:45 PM | #844 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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KAMEN RIDER 555 EPISODE 45
--1-- Look, we’ve spent a lot of time in this thread talking about the big emotions behind the recent episodes, how considered and breathtaking some of the character arcs have been, the ways the cinematography and sound design elevate the material, whatever. Let’s finally talk about stuff that matters. HOLY SHIT DID FAIZ JUST USE ACCEL TO PULL OFF FIVE OVERLAPPING CRIMSON SMASHES ON THE BAT COWBOY ORPHNOCH I mean, the balls of that move! Sickshooter (the Bat Cowboy Orphnoch) had been beating on Delta for, I don’t know, an hour? Faiz was outside of town (great cell reception in a secret science cave, though) and had to travel all the way back into the city to join the fight. (Did Rina hate Kusaka so much that he wouldn't be her first call?) But despite Sickshooter having Delta on the ropes for forever, Faiz rolls up, tries out a couple moves, then just humiliates this dude with one of the most amazing displays of force I’ve seen on this show, and that’s in an episode that also sees Kitazaki get his worst whooping to date. It… FIVE OVERLAPPING CRIMSON SMASHES. DID ANYTHING ELSE HAPPEN IN THIS EPISODE? NO! NO, IT DID NOT! POST OVER! --2-- ugh okay fiiiiine This one was very plot-heavy, in ways that I didn’t really love. There’s stuff that felt very focused on cause and effect, and then there was stuff that was like Oh We’ve Only Got Five Episodes Left After This One. Because I am merely a thin layer of skin that envelopes feelings about Kamen Rider, boy did the Keitaro stuff land in this episode for me. It’s tangential to what else is happening in this episode, definitely epilogue material, but it’s more-or-less what I watch this show for. I mean, what do you do if you’re Takumi, watch your friend be miserable because he thinks a girl he liked never cared about him? Or tell him that she got murdered by a cop ambush that you inadvertently led her to? These are awful choices, and I don’t know that I can blame Takumi for keeping the truth from Keitaro. (Incidentally, second Kamen Rider series in a row where someone misses out on a first date due to dying beautifully. I wonder if anyone who gets stood up in these series just assume their date died. Just, like, text if you’re going to be late. Folks are right to worry!) My favorite thing about the storyline is that, while Takumi's our POV for it, and his knowledge of Yuka's fate hangs over him like a cloud, the show never loses sight that it's Keitaro's grief we're supposed to be focusing on. He's the member of Team Faiz that'd be most damaged by Yuka's disappearance, and Takumi shouldn't usurp that role. The show handles Keitaro's arc well, letting him try and shrug it off and focus on the positive, before just breaking into pieces. I mentioned before that it’s tough to watch Yuuji lose his shit, but, like, do not make me watch Keitaro cry. I can’t take it! He is a pure snowflake of optimism and friendship and he isn’t supposed to suffer this way! Bad show! Bad! --3-- Yuuji’s reaction to Yuka’s death is a lot more relevant to the plot, in so much as he goes on a rampage that ends up crushing Minami’s mad science initiative. (I mean, probably not. Minami got a hell of a death scene by laughing at Yuuji’s assumption that the Orphnochs scored a victory over humanity. Probably more to come on that front!) It’s a plot that has some fun beats to it, mostly in how long the show keeps Yuuji hidden. As soon as he deduces that Yuka’s dead, we don’t see him until the last few minutes of the show. There’s a lot of tension in not knowing what Yuuji’s up to, and it’s a strength of the episode. One quick thing I thought was funny, though. For a show that’s got a reputation for miscommunications and teased-out reveals, it’s hilarious that both Takumi and Yuuji immediately figure out that Yuka has died. I’m not saying the show didn’t do the work to get them to make the connections, but it’s real funny to me. Like, now they can put the clues together? Cracked me up. The down side, for me, is that Yuuji’s story seems like it’s going to intertwine with Orphan Daddy’s. --4-- Hey, Orphan Daddy’s back. Between him and whatever is happening with Teruo’s story, that’s where this episode started to lose me. Both of those, plus whatever horrible thing that Minami discovered about Orphnochs… I don’t know, my heart isn’t in it. (Much like Minami’s heart isn’t in him! Too soon?) It’s all the stuff I was complaining about before, where it’s all shit coming in from the outside, while homegrown plots like Keitaro’s grief and Yuuji’s rage get pushed a bit to the edges. This late in the series, I don’t feel a ton of enthusiasm for trying to suss out what weird thing Teruo is, or what shocking thing Minami discovered, or why Orphan Daddy’s returned now and recruited Yuuji. They might be cool stories, maybe, but the way they get brought up in this episode didn’t do it for me. The Teruo storyline, like, what? There’s a sliver of something interesting there, about Kaido, but then it’s all Anti-Orphnoch Lasers or whatever and I kind-of zone out. It ceases to be something that’s telling me anything about Kaido, or (god forbid) Rina and Mihara, and becomes some big Mystery for the show to focus on, like the Ryusei Massacre. That shit is not exactly what I recommend about this show! Same thing with Orphan Daddy. Save a couple moments back in the teens when we got some backstory, and the one episode where he unhelpfully tells Kusaka to just keep fighting and everything’ll work out, this dude is just a question mark in a bandana. I don’t really care about him, because the show hasn’t really given me cause to care about him. They’ve barely even remembered that I’m supposed to be curious about him in the last dozen episodes. He pops up in the Kitazaki fight, but it's all OP Boss stuff and an air of mystery. Nothing to get me emotionally invested, and barely enough to want to see his story developed. Like, there are five remaining main protagonists for this show (six, if you count Kusaka, which I do not) and the time we spend with them in this episode runs parallel to the plot elements like Orphan Daddy, Teruo, and Minami’s Machine. I feel like the show keeps dragging me away from the characters I care about, to sit through scenes focused on currently siloed plots. Like, I’m sure it’ll get more relevant for our cast, but it felt so incongruent this time that I wasn’t loving it. --5-- Real ups and downs in this one. The Keitaro stuff was a home run, the Yuuji stuff (brief though it was) came out strong, and FIVE OVERLAPPING CRIMSON SMASHES is a hall-of-fame idea. The rest of it, all of the Getting Us To The Finale stuff, clunky. Real clunky, and not my favorite look on Faiz. We’ll see if it improves next time!
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06-24-2020, 01:26 AM | #845 |
I have a problematic type
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,409
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Quote:
KAMEN RIDER 555 EPISODE 45
--1-- Look, we’ve spent a lot of time in this thread talking about the big emotions behind the recent episodes, how considered and breathtaking some of the character arcs have been, the ways the cinematography and sound design elevate the material, whatever. Let’s finally talk about stuff that matters. HOLY SHIT DID FAIZ JUST USE ACCEL TO PULL OFF FIVE OVERLAPPING CRIMSON SMASHES ON THE BAT COWBOY ORPHNOCH I mean, the balls of that move! Sickshooter (the Bat Cowboy Orphnoch) had been beating on Delta for, I don’t know, an hour? Faiz was outside of town (great cell reception in a secret science cave, though) and had to travel all the way back into the city to join the fight. (Did Rina hate Kusaka so much that he wouldn't be her first call?) But despite Sickshooter having Delta on the ropes for forever, Faiz rolls up, tries out a couple moves, then just humiliates this dude with one of the most amazing displays of force I’ve seen on this show, and that’s in an episode that also sees Kitazaki get his worst whooping to date. It… FIVE OVERLAPPING CRIMSON SMASHES. DID ANYTHING ELSE HAPPEN IN THIS EPISODE? NO! NO, IT DID NOT! POST OVER! |
06-24-2020, 05:21 AM | #846 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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I just want to say it's really funny how Faiz barely used Axel from when he got it, but now he's got a new super form he suddenly feels the need to use his last one instead. Love it
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06-24-2020, 09:48 AM | #847 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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My hope is that Takumi is kicking himself after this battle, realizing that Do Your Finishing Move Five Times At Once is a pretty goddamn winning strategy, and he only used it once.
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06-24-2020, 12:09 PM | #848 |
King of the Rolex
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Digital World
Posts: 452
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I feel that a lot of Early Heisei shows like to focus on their characters more than their plot and it usually shows final episodes, because it always feels like
Producer: "Crap, we lonly have 10 episodes left we need to really wrap this bad boy up" Head Writer: "I know let's insert these last minute plotpoints so we can have a kickass final boss." Produce: "That's why we hired you." |
06-24-2020, 12:12 PM | #849 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 2,546
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It’s near the end of the year, so it’s their last chance to sell those toys before they’re replaced with the next line, freeing up the show to spend more time on the plot and to feel free to destroy as many of the products as they like.
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06-24-2020, 12:33 PM | #850 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
I feel that a lot of Early Heisei shows like to focus on their characters more than their plot and it usually shows final episodes, because it always feels like
Producer: "Crap, we lonly have 10 episodes left we need to really wrap this bad boy up" Head Writer: "I know let's insert these last minute plotpoints so we can have a kickass final boss." Produce: "That's why we hired you." Easily one of the trickiest things in this franchise is balancing the character development with the long-form plot. When series end up not working, I think that's the easiest thing to point the finger at. That's one of the reasons I'm so critical of plot developments that occur outside the main groups on Faiz. Spending time setting up a whole new conflict inevitably means less time developing the characters. I don't love that trade-off!
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