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02-13-2019, 02:41 AM | #11 |
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 169
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I remember Ryuki has an ending in which Shinji, Ren, and Yui in a room, facing a window in a room in high elevation while watching a horde of flying monster. Is that Episode Final?
If that one is reset by Shiro, then Ryuki's characters really has no powers whatsoever in the end, explaining the absence of Ryuki. But how does Dark Shinji's Ryuga power exists to have his power corrupted into Another Ryuga? And what about the rule of Another Rider can only be destroyed by its real form's power? How does Ryuki able to crossover into those taisen movies anyway? Last edited by zenstrive; 02-13-2019 at 02:46 AM.. |
02-13-2019, 04:28 AM | #12 |
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,301
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Quote:
I remember Ryuki has an ending in which Shinji, Ren, and Yui in a room, facing a window in a room in high elevation while watching a horde of flying monster. Is that Episode Final?
If that one is reset by Shiro, then Ryuki's characters really has no powers whatsoever in the end, explaining the absence of Ryuki. But how does Dark Shinji's Ryuga power exists to have his power corrupted into Another Ryuga? And what about the rule of Another Rider can only be destroyed by its real form's power? How does Ryuki able to crossover into those taisen movies anyway? |
02-14-2019, 07:07 PM | #13 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 260
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Quote:
I remember Ryuki has an ending in which Shinji, Ren, and Yui in a room, facing a window in a room in high elevation while watching a horde of flying monster. Is that Episode Final?
If that one is reset by Shiro, then Ryuki's characters really has no powers whatsoever in the end, explaining the absence of Ryuki. But how does Dark Shinji's Ryuga power exists to have his power corrupted into Another Ryuga? And what about the rule of Another Rider can only be destroyed by its real form's power? Quote:
How does Ryuki able to crossover into those taisen movies anyway?
Last edited by NeonZ; 02-14-2019 at 07:11 PM.. |
02-15-2019, 06:18 AM | #14 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 169
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If rule is still consistent, then Another Ryuga's watch need to be created by taking Ryuga' power, erase Ryuga's power from existence. But the way Another Ryuga's watch was created feels like Heure just make it out of thin air, since officially Ryuga doesn't exist in canon continuity that got erased by Ren's victory wish.
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02-15-2019, 06:22 AM | #15 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: A Cave
Posts: 2,115
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Soooo Zi-O uses a sword with his face on it, making it his mini Zi-O. I feel like there is a good dick joke to be made here but I can not figure one out.
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02-15-2019, 02:35 PM | #16 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: France
Posts: 294
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It's just ep.20 and characters still getting OP abilities one after another. White Woz has his reality bending book and now Sougo has time rewind and forecast of opponent moves. Ok ,there's the "cool" factor but what now ? Geiz get the 3 future riders watches and go back in time to stole Zi-O powers or do something crazy ?
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02-15-2019, 06:34 PM | #17 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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Hey everyone, guess what time it is?
Time for the strongest episode of Zi-O since episode 15. I freakin' loved this whole two-parter. Everything about it was just great. I mentioned I had a problem with the Quiz episodes right before this because the writing was thinner than I expect from Zi-O, and while that probably doesn't make sense to anyone who doesn't like this show as much as I do, these episodes are the perfect example of the opposite of that. Ordinarily I feel Zi-O is great about making the most of its runtime and making sure every scene accomplishes something, and that's exactly the case for this arc. There's just a ton going on here, and for the most part it's actually really well thought out. Shinji is only in like four scenes, but by the end here he's had his own little character arc, taught Sougo something important, AND had a reunion that's guaranteed to make anyone who loves Ryuki smile. Not to mention the way they handled Ryuki's somewhat convoluted continuity. Shimoyama is in full-on Go-Rider mode here, clearly acknowledging the events of Ryuki's finale by having Woz explicitly mention Shinji not remembering being a Rider, which seems like business as usual until you remember there is no Another Ryuki, so clearly that's not the reason why. The decision to use Ryuga instead was kind of a stroke of genius in terms of how much it spices the story up, and while I'll admit you can probably poke some holes in all of this if you want to, I'd just ask you to remember how low the standard for tributes to past Riders used to be even just five years ago before you do so. The actual main cast here was great as well. I somewhat inexplicably love Geiz, but these episodes showcase the big reason why. He's just blatantly way more of a hero than Sougo is and for all his shortcomings as a character, that twist on the typical formula is really fun. Note how Sougo expresses confusion as to why Geiz would be upset at himself for merely thinking about doing something bad. He's already doing the thing Sougo takes the entire episode to figure out. Speaking of which, I also adore the idea of using the Mirror World to do a plot where Sougo has to reflect on himself. It's a clever way to make use of Ryuki's gimmicks, and flows effortlessly into the debut of Zi-O II, a form so awesome I can't believe I thought it looked ugly when we first saw catalog scans of it. Now I can't stop thinking of ways it rocks. The addition of gold to the color scheme and the longer watch bands bringing things closer to Oma Zi-O. The sweet, doubled-up transformation, or just the simple fact that the fight scene we got here was awesome, and massively improved by the use of the same insert song from back in episode 16, which, after the way Ex-Aid and Build just kind of threw out all their insert songs shortly after they were first used, it's nice to see one getting used as a proper motif. This post is probably a bit more rambling than I'd like but I honestly just enjoyed the episode that much. So much I actually immediately went back and watched both parts of this arc together after finishing this one the first time. The only "complaint" I can think of is that the bar for form debuts in this show is probably set too high now.
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02-15-2019, 09:04 PM | #18 |
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 194
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I really love a lot of the ideas and presentation they have going on in this episode/arc. I love the acknowledgement that Ryuki doesn't exist when all is said and done and the whole idea of Mirror Sougo/the way the Mirror World is used. It makes me want to know a lot more about the Mirror World, honestly, since in Ryuki it was never really explained and was mainly just implied to exist from mysterious imagination power, or perhaps kids somehow tapping into it when no one else knows it exists. I had the impression that the Mirror World doesn't exist outside of what causes it to exist in Ryuki and the idea that it does exist on its own and is just the mirror of the real world with the opposites of ourselves dwelling inside is really cool. Given that Mirror Shinji in another timeline transformed into Ryuga, I kinda wish we got Dark Zi-O, with some proper repainting and a more interesting name, rather than just Zi-O flipped in editing (which is still cool but, you know, Ryuga). Also kinda makes me wish Ryuga's V-Buckle and Drag-Visor were mirrored in the original movie.
I fucking love Zi-O II and it's one of the most badass designs in the franchise, both on its own and as a power-up. I love the transformation, jingle, and all the implications it has - it's the power of Oma Zi-O Sougo created/finished by "accepting" the darkness within him. Who knows what Sougo will do with it next? But, uhh... when Mirror Sougo tried to grill Sougo on how he's really capable of terrible things, he kinda came up empty-handed. He says Sougo asked Geiz to explain his plan to kill Ryuga and get himself killed in the process, and that Sougo wants to use Geiz's self-sacrifice as an excuse to become Oma Zi-O. But those things really have nothing to do with each other. Geiz was going to do it regardless of if Sougo asked him to and Oma Zi-O still stands as a "possible inevitability" (how's that for an oxymoron?). It also wasn't Sougo's fault that Woz gave him the first half of the Zi-O Ridewatch II. We've had 21 episodes already to fit in nasty tricks and mind games Sougo could have played to demonstrate that he's not only capable of but willing to do bad things, more so than other Riders (almost every main Rider has been manipulative at some point. A smaller subset of them have been huge assholes at some point, too, if not all the time). I've always been puzzled by Sougo's presentation and writing as a character, with his explicitly dumb and childish desire to be a king and the huge gap between his super-nice, heroic kid personality and his evil-incarnate future self. I've crossed my fingers that the show had a trick up its sleeve to justify the odd aspects of Sougo, but it seems to just think it did and it fell flat where it mattered in terms of Sougo as a character. From the get-go, Sougo has not been written properly to be a character who goes from a heroic warrior to a truly evil king. He's been written to be a strange, nice kid with some mysteries surrounding him involving time travel and potential liars and manipulators. The show never convinced me that he would really want to be a king, regardless of his single strange dream, and it still hasn't convinced me that he's capable of becoming a selfish, evil overlord of death and destruction who has delusions of being heroic. And while I really like this arc and how it builds into Zi-O II, I think the fact that the show is so confident you believe Sougo wants to be a king and that he is capable of being truly evil is a bad sign. I think it would have created a lot of opportunities to fix this if they actually explained any of the Rider gear. And the weird, roundabout mechanism of giving one to the original Rider in their debut year and then getting it back in 2018 doesn't count. We have no idea where the Blank Watches come from, no idea where the Ziku-Driver comes from (neither the origin of it or where the copies come from), no idea why or how Geiz got his own personal transformation Ridewatch, no idea where the Beyondriver came from, and it seems the way the Miridewatches are created is whatever the writer feels like at the moment since White Woz has a handwaving device. We really do not know anything about how or why the Riders and their gear exist and that's honestly a giant hole in the plot. The franchise doesn't have a high standard for good lore behind and explanation for the toys, but come on. They're pretty much the entire source of conflict in the show here, and we don't even know where they come from. Did someone create the Driver and choose Sougo to use it and become Zi-O? Is Oma Zi-O responsible for all of it and it's a paradoxical origin? That might be very cool and interesting if they explore the implications of it and don't just leave it as a footnote, but I'm sure it would be the latter. And if that's the case, where does the Beyondriver come from? Does the "winner" of Oma's Day just get the power to poof up Rider gear? There's so much potential for awesome explanations for the gear and we just don't know anything about it. Every new form widens the gap in the show's story and Zi-O II isn't an exception, as cool as it is. Zi-O II is said to be the power of Oma Zi-O, so why isn't it just Oma Zi-O? Did Oma Zi-O look like this as an intermediary form (in which case when, why, and how does the gold Driver come in)? Does it not look like Oma Zi-O because Sougo is taking the good path instead of the evil one? In that case, Oma Zi-O's future has assuredly been erased or altered, but Zi-O has already proven itself to be a show that doesn't account for paradoxes such as how Geiz and Tsukuyomi should have been affected by the butterfly effect. The first half of the Zi-O II watch seems to have come from the same void as the Ziku-Driver, but the second half was created when Sougo accepted the dark within him. How does that work? Did Oma Zi-O have to do that in his original timeline and ascension? It seems to fit with the nebulous "taking/containing essence/power" way Legend Rider Ridewatches are created, but we don't have any groundwork for why any of that is in the first place. It also fits with the idea that each Rider's power comes directly from the person who transforms into the Rider, which I love and think is a really cool idea, but it hasn't been addressed at all by the show and 22 episodes in I doubt it ever will. We'll see how Geiz Revive, Zi-O Trinity, and Grand Zi-O go, I guess. And Woz Ginga, which hopefully won't just be the same as any other Woz form but extra strong for some reason. But it sucks after Build so thoroughly explained and justified every little device and trinket in the show and its movies.
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Last edited by Diamondmatter; 02-15-2019 at 09:21 PM.. |
02-15-2019, 09:31 PM | #19 |
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I feel you Diamondmatter. I like this show, but I totally expect that we are either never getting an answer to any of those questions, or we'll get some really weak or terrible explanations very late as throwaway lines.
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02-15-2019, 10:18 PM | #20 |
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Brisbane,Australia
Posts: 349
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I think with Zi-O II not looking like Oma Zi-O could be the fact that Sougo has yet to obtain and use all the Ridewatches of the 19 Heisei Riders. When he meets Oma Zi-O, the latter has three Ridewatches that Sougo did not come into possession yet at that time (Kuuga, Kiva, Ryuki) and it was mentioned that Geiz stole the Ghost and Drive Ridewatches from him (Sougo gets the Ghost Ridewatch in the present day in the 2nd Ghost episode).
So at this moment, he has the time manipulation powers of Oma Zi-O but not all of his power.
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