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02-16-2021, 10:46 PM | #1 |
Comin' up OOOs!
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: A place where imports are impossible to find, NY
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So I've been keeping up with Saber by watching weekly with a friend and while I'm enjoying what I can of it I can't help but notice that head writer Takuro Fukuda has been having the same sort of problems as he did with Ghost's overall writing and plot: It feels like his story can't support the average Kamen Rider series run time. And I found that kind of fascinating since the issues Saber currently has are also very similar to Ghost's.
Now I defend Ghost constantly and still do. I think it gets way too much hate as a series and is overall a good series, but nowhere near as good as most of its predecessors or almost all of its successors. I feel Saber's gonna be in that same category. Reason being is that when watching it weekly, the series feels slow or like its spinning its wheels while if you watch it in chunks, the story flows better. I watched Ghost weekly, fell off for weeks on end then went back to catch up and enjoyed myself more by watching 2 or 3 episodes at a time. Saber's storytelling so far feels like it's gonna be better to watch near its end where you can binge it in portions, too. There's also Fukuda's apparent habit of writing what feels like an endgame plot only 10-13 episodes into the series run. By around episode 12 Ghost found all the eyecons, got a wish, the apparent main antagonist was defeated and...now we've got like 35 episodes left. So we get things like the Ganmeisers, Another Makoto, Takeru dying for real though two or three more times, etc. Saber? Same thing! By episode 13 we've got beams of light in the sky, wonder books opening up portals all over the place, our antagonists getting close to their goal, a showdown between Calibur and Saber aaand...35 episodes left still. So now we've got a conflict between Touma and the other Logos Riders that feels like it's been, what a surprise, spinning its wheels too much in terms of progression. Characters don't simply talk to one another, question motives that deserve questioning, devolve into what feels one-dimensional versions of who they are (REN...), repeating the same conflict over and over and while it finally feels like it's slowly starting to actually progress with Slash's side-swap and all, it's still a very notable problem I've been having with things since we ended Calibur's arc. I can't help but feel like Fukuda's storytelling excels best in short-form mini-series length works or even single episodes rather than long-form, year-long plot threads since his ideas don't seem to be able to stretch that far. I don't think he's a bad writer at all, but I think Toei puts him on projects that are longer than his skills can deal with. This whole thing was just an interesting thought. Especially when comparing Saber's current place to where Ghost's was around the same time. The similarities become super apparent.
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02-16-2021, 11:01 PM | #2 |
Reiei
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 3,691
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This is very true. Fukuda has worked on Sin Specter, and the Drive movie and those I believe were well-received and they were only about and hour and a half in terms of length.
Personally, I don't see Saber falling in the same pit as Ghost. As long as Fukuda doesn't leave along with all the material for it. I'd see something like Blade where it got progressively good or maybe Wizard where it's just okay. Writing for a 50-episode length story is a very big challenge for many writers, and I guess only a handful are really capable of writing that long. Especially when you've been in this genre or franchise for so long. You'll run out of steam, eventually. I'm gonna go on a tangent and reiterate this opinion I have and say that Kamen Rider needs fresh blood. Shogo Muto and Gen Urobuchi were very welcoming guests to work on Kamen Rider. Regardless of what you feel about their shows, Build and Gaim have become one of Kamen Rider's most successful series. The only thing I think holding Toei back is they probably think they don't want ""outsiders"" to meddle with their golden goose Kamen Rider, but it should've been an incentive for them to bring in new talent with what Build and Gaim did. This is one thing I want to see with Rider, but I feel it won't happen for a while since next year's rider would be definitely coinciding with the 50th anniversary and we'll most likely have Ohmori and/or Inoue to work on the show. |
02-16-2021, 11:03 PM | #3 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,481
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I mean I want to point out that this happened in Ex-aid as well (also maybe Zero One and Build, but I’ve yet to watch those) the plot with Dan Kurato wrapped up at the half way mark then a bait and switch was pulled with the bugsters being swapped out for Dan senior.
I feel like the difference is the future plots are intro’d earlier in the other shows then ghost or saber? I don’t know what do y’all think?
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02-16-2021, 11:04 PM | #4 |
Stronger Than You
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: nyet
Posts: 25,326
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This is the identical issue I had with Ghost. While I disagree on it's quality, I did find it infinitely more watchable when I could sit and watch it in chunks at a time. While watching weekly, I just lost interest due to the seemingly erratic pacing, which is the same thing I did with Saber after episode 9 or 10 (Didn't even know they were written by the same guy. Jeez...)
I feel Fukuda's main goal is to make a series feel bigger than it is, and he aims to accomplish that by creating 3 or so story arcs that the cast has to go through, with varying levels of connectivity between them.
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02-16-2021, 11:10 PM | #5 |
Alias: ZeroEnchiladas
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,576
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These are some good points.
But I also feel like, there has to be some blame with Bandai's gungho method with the toys this season. Like this particular first quarter has been bloated with a lot of stuff. And I feel like what would have helped Fukuda is if the toys and stuff that had to be showcased, were spaced out a lot more. Because as it stands, with the tools given to you, you could probably stretch out Rider and Form and Book debuts out further than just the first 15 episodes. Like, the toys themselves just have this really good setup in terms of like, what shows up where, who gets what, and how those clash against each other and make a pretty big story out of those. The issue, is that they are all packed into the first 15 episodes, and can end up being a detriment as a result. |
02-16-2021, 11:13 PM | #6 |
Comin' up OOOs!
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: A place where imports are impossible to find, NY
Posts: 2,431
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Quote:
I mean I want to point out that this happened in Ex-aid as well (also maybe Zero One and Build, but I’ve yet to watch those) the plot with Dan Kurato wrapped up at the half way mark then a bait and switch was pulled with the bugsters being swapped out for Dan senior.
I feel like the difference is the future plots are intro’d earlier in the other shows then ghost or saber? I don’t know what do y’all think?
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02-16-2021, 11:28 PM | #7 |
Ex-Weather Three leader
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,527
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Would y'all agree, based on the obervations so far, that perhaps Fukuda would be more suited to season-based shows. I think he doesn't suck but perhaps just not utilized correctly as a writer. Or maybe have a co-writer that can help him manage his narrative pacing/length problem.
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02-17-2021, 12:26 AM | #8 |
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Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: World of Ataru
Posts: 857
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Fukada does have two co-writers there Keiichi Hasegawa and Nobohiro Mouri who both have also wrriten chunks for both Ghost and Saber.
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02-17-2021, 01:25 AM | #9 |
Fangirl-Type Humagear
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 703
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To me it seems like a lot of recent Rider seasons have had a big "endgame-worthy" event somewhere between a quarter and a third of the way in. It might have started with Ghost (although it might have also been in Drive or Gaim and I'm just not remembering) and collecting all the Eyecons, but it's been a pretty steady pattern since then:
Ex-Aid had the defeat of Kuroto Dan, who while it's true was never shown as the only threat, neither the Bugsters nor Masamune took the "main villain" role until he was dealt with. It actually reminds me a lot of the situation in Saber: the evil Rider gets defeated first, then for a while the monster generals are the main villains until the new human villain is revealed. Build had one "mini-endgame" with the defeat of Faust, then another with the representative battle between Touto and Hokuto, and then another with the representative battle between Touto and Seito. The reason I count those as mini-endgames instead of just plot points is that everything before each one had been building up to a showdown with that specific villain group, and once the heroes won, a new villain took the stage. I haven't seen Zi-O, but I'll bet it has things like this too. And Zero-One had Horobi's defeat and Jin's resulting all-out attack, leading to the debut of Shining Assault Hopper and Jin's first death. I'll bet there are other examples of this in earlier Heisei shows, but I haven't seen enough of them to be sure. My point is, the early endgame thing might have been started by Fukuda but it's hardly unique to him.
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02-17-2021, 03:02 AM | #10 |
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ZI-O is probably the show the furthest from it. 15 and 16 do deal with an end of the world level threat but it never gets punched in the face. It's something far more personal and mostly as a backdrop to accelerate some character arcs. And the show continues on with the same main bad guys and only adds one additional minor antagonist to the mix.
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