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03-12-2021, 11:57 PM | #371 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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Quote:
Let me say this to start these are both very insightful and intelligent posts that not only make me appreciate den-o more, but also Kamen Rider in general more.
But also why did you divide these into two posts? what compelled you to do that? (also expect a lot of bad jokes from me) Dunno! Felt like it? There were really two big things I wanted to talk about: The Deneb/Yuuto partnership (ha ha, I put Deneb first without even thinking about it, hilarious), and the way the episode that was all about how cool Yuuto was became about how much cooler Ryotaro is. Didn't feel right to make one of those the lead and not the other, so I did both! Also, I maybe took a cue from Ryotaro's attitude from the episode and decided to just do what I thought was right, even if it's only to make me feel like I was true to myself. Unlike all the other times, where I rigidly followed the rules and conformed to people's expectations...? (Also also, I love how you can see in these screencaps how little Yuuto cares about how emotionally damaging it is for this guy to recount his story. He just wants to know where the monster is going to strike next! You can cry about your shattered life later, dude!)
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03-13-2021, 12:10 AM | #372 |
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Quote:
Dunno! Felt like it? There were really two big things I wanted to talk about: The Deneb/Yuuto partnership (ha ha, I put Deneb first without even thinking about it, hilarious), and the way the episode that was all about how cool Yuuto was became about how much cooler Ryotaro is. Didn't feel right to make one of those the lead and not the other, so I did both! Also, I maybe took a cue from Ryotaro's attitude from the episode and decided to just do what I thought was right, even if it's only to make me feel like I was true to myself. Unlike all the other times, where I rigidly followed the rules and conformed to people's expectations...? (Also also, I love how you can see in these screencaps how little Yuuto cares about how emotionally damaging it is for this guy to recount his story. He just wants to know where the monster is going to strike next! You can cry about your shattered life later, dude!)
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03-13-2021, 12:13 AM | #373 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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Doing unnecessary things on these threads because it makes me happy is my Lucky Star!
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03-13-2021, 12:19 AM | #374 |
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03-13-2021, 04:08 AM | #375 |
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One thing that sticks with me about Zeronos is the cow nosies his belt makes. Ever since I first heard the belt in D-Video Special: Kamen Rider Yongou, I’ve wondered why his belt had such a bizarre sound effect (it’s certainly doesn’t seem obvious just looking at him).
In terms of the episode plot, this is another one that displays how little the Imagin actually care for being decent in granting their wishes, given how JellyFrieza essentially bullies the guy into saying he’s found the right capsule after little work. Not really sure if I have opinions on that. |
03-13-2021, 04:10 AM | #376 |
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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So Zeronos and Deneb. There are two sets of motifs behind these two, one of them which I will share way later when you get through 20 more so episodes. The other one that I can share right now is that Yuuto/Zeronos and Deneb are based off of the Japanese lore of Ushiwakamaru(pronounced ooh-shi-wakamaru) vs Benkei. It is about how the hulking Benkei tried to take down Ushiwakamaru so that he can be the 1000th opponent he defeated and take his weapon to add to his collection, but Ushiwakamaru nimbly dodged his attacks to the point where Benkei gave up in the end. There is also a children's song about it but seems like the actual incident is still pending on whether it actually went down like that. Think of it as Kraven vs Spidey but Kraven eventually went on to be his humble servant after admitting defeat.
Now this song has historical ties in that it is based off specifically on Yoshitsune and Benkei, two historic figures from the 12th century. Yoshitsune was a commander and Benkei was a warrior monk who went on to serve Yoshitsune, and Yoshitsune had another name he went by when he was younger and that was Ushiwakamaru. In relations to that the reason Zeronos is based off a bull is because the ushi in Ushiwakamaru means bovine. Respectufully Deneb is Benkei, and as Androzani84 pointed out previously he is also based off Karasu Tengu as well. The reason these two are Deneb's motif is because in fictional folklore Benkei is known to have ties with Karasu Tengu in fictional lore such as folklore and myths, etc. Last edited by Sunred; 03-13-2021 at 04:22 AM.. |
03-13-2021, 06:58 AM | #377 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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I'll say this to start! I have to actively restrain myself from starting every thought I have about Den-O with this catchphrase, because Zeronos is my favorite secondary Rider ever! You'll notice in retrospect I even did so when talking about Kiriya for the first time in the Hibiki thread.
(Also: this is kinda the same deal as Asakura being "vexed" where TV-Nihon's clunky translation is something people like me are attached to because of how distinct it is. The phrase is the title of episode 20, so you can see how much the subs you're using having cleaned up that sort of thing.) Anyways, yeah, Yuuto – love that guy! I could make an extremely long list filled with all the reasons why, because they're as numerous and complex as his weirdly thorough design motifs as Zeronos, but, as a quick sampler of some of those reasons: - Zeronos' weirdly thorough design motifs, one of which Sunred just explained to you, the other of which will be more relevant in the next episode, and both of which hold clear thematic significance to Yuuto's character and his relationships with other members of the cast. One of the things I find most endlessly fascinating about Kamen Rider is how hard Toei and PLEX and all them always go on packing as much story and personality as they can into all these aesthetically appealing suits, and Zeronos goes even harder than most. I didn't even know about the Benkei/Ushiwakamaru thing until a few years ago. - Zeronos would turn out to be the final secondary Rider with Makoto Itou as his suit actor, and he consistently turned in a heck of a performance. Zeronos is insanely active, selling you on those boasts of strength by casually flipping over his opponents and swinging around that ridiculously huge sword like it was just a tiny dagger or something. He's so cool. - Naturally the sword itself – the ZeroGasher, in contrast to Ryoutarou's DenGasher – is also a huge favorite of mine. It's a big cool hero sword that turns into a sweet crossbow. What's not to love? - Oh, and speaking of which, the way he contrasts Den-O and Ryoutarou specifically, as characters, is great. It's the typical primary/secondary Rider dynamic, but delivered in a more nuanced way that really goes to show what I love so much about Kobayashi's writing. Ryoutarou and Yuuto are natural opposites with plenty of mutual tension between them, but they aren't really at each other's throats all the time, either. It's a dynamic that brings out a lot more spine from Ryoutarou (I love him quoting the present-day Sakurai at him in 20), while also showing layers to Yuuto by framing his constant antagonism as him simply being extraordinarily bad at making friends. - And, perhaps most importantly of all: These episodes definitely do a great job reminding the viewer that Den-O is still the star in the end, and don't get me wrong, those guys are still great, but Zeronos being added to the mix is where the show really takes off for me, and I'll have yet more effusive things to say about him as you go along.
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03-13-2021, 08:05 AM | #378 |
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Quote:
(Also: this is kinda the same deal as Asakura being "vexed" where TV-Nihon's clunky translation is something people like me are attached to because of how distinct it is. The phrase is the title of episode 20, so you can see how much the subs you're using having cleaned up that sort of thing.)
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03-13-2021, 08:31 AM | #379 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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The specific word choice is. "Vexing" is an oddly highbrow sounding way for Asakura to express his frustration. I think イライラする is a lot more crass than that, and I've honestly never been sure why TV-N handled it the way they did. By comparison, "I'll say this to start" is just the usual problem of being overly literal and direct.
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03-13-2021, 03:49 PM | #380 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
One thing that sticks with me about Zeronos is the cow nosies his belt makes. Ever since I first heard the belt in D-Video Special: Kamen Rider Yongou, I’ve wondered why his belt had such a bizarre sound effect (it’s certainly doesn’t seem obvious just looking at him).
Quote:
In terms of the episode plot, this is another one that displays how little the Imagin actually care for being decent in granting their wishes, given how JellyFrieza essentially bullies the guy into saying he’s found the right capsule after little work. Not really sure if I have opinions on that.
Quote:
So Zeronos and Deneb. There are two sets of motifs behind these two, one of them which I will share way later when you get through 20 more so episodes. The other one that I can share right now is that Yuuto/Zeronos and Deneb are based off of the Japanese lore of Ushiwakamaru(pronounced ooh-shi-wakamaru) vs Benkei. It is about how the hulking Benkei tried to take down Ushiwakamaru so that he can be the 1000th opponent he defeated and take his weapon to add to his collection, but Ushiwakamaru nimbly dodged his attacks to the point where Benkei gave up in the end. There is also a children's song about it but seems like the actual incident is still pending on whether it actually went down like that. Think of it as Kraven vs Spidey but Kraven eventually went on to be his humble servant after admitting defeat.
Now this song has historical ties in that it is based off specifically on Yoshitsune and Benkei, two historic figures from the 12th century. Yoshitsune was a commander and Benkei was a warrior monk who went on to serve Yoshitsune, and Yoshitsune had another name he went by when he was younger and that was Ushiwakamaru. In relations to that the reason Zeronos is based off a bull is because the ushi in Ushiwakamaru means bovine. Respectufully Deneb is Benkei, and as Androzani84 pointed out previously he is also based off Karasu Tengu as well. The reason these two are Deneb's motif is because in fictional folklore Benkei is known to have ties with Karasu Tengu in fictional lore such as folklore and myths, etc. Quote:
Oh, and speaking of which, the way he contrasts Den-O and Ryoutarou specifically, as characters, is great. It's the typical primary/secondary Rider dynamic, but delivered in a more nuanced way that really goes to show what I love so much about Kobayashi's writing. Ryoutarou and Yuuto are natural opposites with plenty of mutual tension between them, but they aren't really at each other's throats all the time, either. It's a dynamic that brings out a lot more spine from Ryoutarou (I love him quoting the present-day Sakurai at him in 20), while also showing layers to Yuuto by framing his constant antagonism as him simply being extraordinarily bad at making friends.
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