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12-26-2019, 08:45 PM | #171 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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Quote:
It definitely doesn't help that these last 15 episodes or so are subbed by what looks like a different team. (MCS? Is that a thing? The font's different, anyway.) It feels a lot more truncated, with less descriptive language and more blunt statements. I'm having to intuit a bit more than normal, and it obviously is not going super great.
I don't know these details off the top of my head, so somebody more in the know correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the original versions might've even been straight up "scrubs" of some bootleg subtitles, meaning they would've been translating a fundamentally poor translation into English with minimal if any understanding of the original Japanese dialogue, which would explain a lot of the extremely baffling mistakes. Mika never said anything about Ichijou not needing a laughing face! I don't even know what that means!
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12-26-2019, 10:53 PM | #172 |
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Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 182
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When I watched Kuuga it was MCS' original subs, and they were better than nothing but not on the level of something like TVN. Plus no subtitles for the Grongi language, which made it kind of hard to get into their side of the story.
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12-28-2019, 09:37 PM | #173 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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MASKED RIDER KUUGA EPISODE 46.5
Hey, it's a late-in-the-series clip show! Not much to talk about from it, what with it being 90% things I've already seen and thought about and talked about, but I'm glad I ended up watching it. (Well, I fast-forwarded through the clips, but you get my point.) The new 10% wasn't some revelation or anything. It was mostly weird costume changes and people eating/demanding food. But all of it was happening around New Year's, which is, uh, now, so it felt appropriate to be watching it. If you've got a copy on hand, it may be worth buzzing through. Celebrate New Year's with Godai and remember the happy times of 2000: kicking monsters until they explode and generally failing the people of Tokyo!
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12-28-2019, 10:42 PM | #174 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
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MASKED RIDER KUUGA EPISODES 47 - 49
This is it! The finale (more or less) of Masked Rider Kuuga! Forty-six episodes all leading up to this climactic struggle! So much to-- Okay, I want to talk about Jack Kirby. Have I brought Kirby up before when it comes to Kamen Rider? I feel like I have, but I don't know where it would've been. Anyway, I was thinking about Kirby a lot as I was watching this final Kuuga story. Kirby is... well, he's the King of Comics. If there were a Mount Rushmore for American comics creators, he'd be on it. He created or co-created some of the biggest characters in superhero comics, but he also reinvented the way people drew comics. His style was a revelation in the 1960s, becoming the de facto Marvel Style. Generations of artists have grown up on his style of art, incorporating it into their own, and in turn inspiring the next generation. He's ubiquitous, infused in the DNA of comics. But that can make it difficult for modern fans to appreciate his contributions. Looking at his art in 2019, it's like a rougher version of any Marvel comic on the stands. The things he was doing that were innovative are now expected. He created a language that everyone now speaks fluently. That's... honestly, that's how I ended up feeling about Kuuga. It's primordial. It's not a Kamen Rider story with magic, or a Kamen Rider story in a high school, or a Kamen Rider story in a hospital. It's, for better or worse, just a Kamen Rider story. It is the archetypal Kamen Rider story. There's things I can squint at and say that it's about, mostly from discussions characters have in the finale. The need to defend, rather than harm. Selflessness over selfishness. The dangers of endless escalation. The importance of fighting for something. I don't know how much I saw those themes play out regularly through the series, but they're likely there. It's just, those themes are the themes of nearly every Kamen Rider series. They are the backbone of Kamen Rider as a franchise. They're easy to miss because it's, like, the background noise of Kamen Rider. The almost imperceptible hum of Protect Smiles and Promote Justice. So when a show is entirely about that background hum, it's tough for me to get into. Intellectually, I know that this was where that hum originated, loud and clear and vibrant, but as someone who's experienced so many shows that smothered that hum in bigger ideas, better effects, twists and turns and subversions of expectations, it's tough to get much out of the default. But that's just me, and that's my baggage. As a show, as a finale, I think this was Kuuga at its... most Kuuga. I don't mean that as some dig. It's just, this was a story that was sort of everything about Kuuga to me: good, bad, fun, grim, weird, predictable. It was the best of Kuuga, it was the Jean of Kuuga. It gets off to a great start, really. Apocalyptic imagery. Civilians in flames, Kuuga in pieces, a serene Daguva relishing in the chaos. It's, honestly, a lot of what works best for me in this finale, a suggestion of terror. I don't need to see Daguva killing thousands of people. I've mentioned it before, but the body count on this show frequently dips into the absurd, a mountain of corpses that render any victory pyrrhic. Showing me one quick flash of an unstoppable, bloodthirsty foe, then letting that hang over an episode of pensive heroes, that's perfect. Following that massacre up with over a full episode of The Last Day Of Yusuke Godai, again, great. I really appreciated the way the show drilled into all of Godai's relationships, making that the primary story being told. It's not a story about if Godai's going to defeat Daguva. I mean, of course he is. It's about the journey these characters have been on, the hopes they've placed in Godai, the feeling that, while the end of the world may not actually be near, the end of this show is. It's a shame the show ended without landing the Grongi story, though. It ends, I guess. Ichijou shoots Rose Grongi to death, after not getting much in the way of answers. Godai beats Daguva to death. The final Grongi battles are just more grim, more portentous, more gory versions of what we've seen before. There's no real explanation as to what this was all for, nothing that provides more details than that I guess the Grongi show up every so often, fight each and/or Kuuga, destruction? It's nice that they kept it mysterious for so much of the series, but I really could've used something more from Rose Grongi than some vague We're Not So Different, You And I thing. And Daguva, I don't know. He's not even a character to me. He's a threat, a terrifying Final Boss, but he's not a character. It's a testament to these episodes, and how genuinely great they are, that I gave even one shit about Daguva. He looks cool, he's shot well, but there's nothing to him. He's someone I felt nothing about once Kuuga beats him. Just, okay. That part of the story is over now. I guess we're going to do an epilogue. And, man, I really liked the epilogue. (I know there's an Episode 50 thing, but I'll watch that tomorrow or maybe later tonight.) It's super smart. It's got a clever symmetry to the start of this final story, the way the beginning is all sad people saying goodbye and fearing for the future, and the end is all happy people (bittersweet, but happy people) looking forward to a better tomorrow. It's clever. It's a great structure to this story, using the Daguva fight not as some climax, but as a fulcrum. It allows every character another scene, another way of commenting on what Godai meant to them and to the story. In the same way Daguva is more terrifying in implication, Godai is more heroic for his absence. That's the best part of this ending to me, the thing that really nailed the emotional core of the season. Keeping Godai offscreen until the very end, having him go someplace new but still work to protect people's smiles, like, yes. He needs to go show these kids how to smile. Sure, every other Kamen Rider may be trying to protect smiles, but smiling? That's Godai's original skill. This was a really solid finale. It didn't drastically change my journey with the show, for good or ill, but it solidified what it felt like watching this series. It was grim, it was spare, it wasn't so much about the monsters and henshins as it was about people trying to find something to cling to in times of tragedy. It was about doing your best and trusting in others to do their best. This wasn't my favorite Kamen Rider show, but I can see why this series got people excited about making more Kamen Rider shows. It's a formula and a set of themes that are endlessly mutable in the specifics, but immutable in their core. I'm glad I got a chance to experience it.
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12-28-2019, 11:15 PM | #175 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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MASKED RIDER KUUGA “EPISODE 50” AND WRAP-UP
I love this sort of shit. Some of my favorite Kamen Rider stuff is all of the weird-ass, non-canon Net Movies for Fourze and Wizard. Weirdo things like cop show parodies and quiz shows and all of that. It’s warm and charming. So, yeah, this total goof was right up my alley, and a nice little palette cleanser after the dark, emotional final episodes of Kuuga. Some great gags, like Ichijou and Godai walking away because Minori’s slow-motion was too damn slow, and Ichijou’s actor falling down while descending a hill and laughing through the rest of the take. Sure, there are a few in-jokes I’m sure I didn’t get, but I’ll never turn down a lark like this. Very fun thing to end on. And, yeah! This is the end of “Kamen Rider Die watches Masked Rider Kuuga”! Thanks so much for letting me do this! I know this is a show a lot of people love, and while it maybe didn’t work as well for me as did for some of you, I really enjoyed getting to watch it and talk about it here. I hope you don’t think I was unfair to it. Now is 100% the time for you to tell me what I missed, and why you love it. I’ve said it other places, but I do enjoy getting to hear why art that didn’t work for me works for others. Tell me why you love Kuuga. I can take it! I’ll be here to respond to anything anyone wants to say about Kuuga, but otherwise, it’s another small break from Kamen Rider watching for Kamen Rider Die. I’ll poke around the boards for sure, but I need a couple weeks of space to recharge the ol’ Amadam. (Also, I got real backed up on some Netflix stuff, so I need to clear those out of the queue. Also also, I’m going to see if I can make a go of it with this Star Wars Jedi game. It’s… it’s not looking great!) The current plan is to be back on the boards in mid-January for a trip through Agito. It’s another new one for me, so hopefully that’ll be fun. Thanks again for reading and responding! You are protecting my smile!
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12-29-2019, 09:04 AM | #176 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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Quote:
Quote:
Let's talk about Steve Ditko. Ditko was a lot less prolific than Kirby, and yet the most iconic of his work is every bit as influential. His run on Spider-Man is truly the stuff of legend. He created one of the most enduring characters in pop culture, the hero who quickly became the face of Marvel Comics. Everyone who has ever drawn a Spider-Man comic since is paying tribute to him in some way. And yet, Ditko's style simply is also totally inimitable. His dynamic sense and his eye for the weird are products of his own unique imagination. This is obvious simply from looking at Spider-Man's design. A mysterious, lanky figure with his face completely covered by a mask went completely against the common idea of what a hero looks like. It was a look unlike any other, and no matter how many people since then try to play in that sandbox, none of them will ever quite be the same. They can add more lines, more detail, and bring their unique imagination to the table, often creating things that are great in their own right, but there's always one inescapable truth. Only Steve Ditko could be Steve Ditko. That's how I see Kuuga, compared to Rider shows both before it, and after. It acts as a foundation for the shows that have come since, to be sure, but it isn't something that can simply be "topped". It was a show that did a lot of very bold things that few other shows would ever dare to try. Those final episodes in particular are especially reflective of that. Yuusuke's final showdown with Daguva is by far my favorite ending boss fight in the whole franchise. Kuuga was often unconcerned with being as theatrical as your typical hero show, and that scene takes it all the way. It's not triumphant or satisfying. It's two men beating each other to death. It's unpleasant, it's not fun, and I respect the hell out of Kuuga for going that far. Very, very few series besides Kuuga would have the nerve to show their main hero crying as they lay the smackdown on the ultimate evil. Perhaps even fewer would then go on to have a final episode with no hero action whatsoever. Kuuga, I've always felt, is a show that had something very special to say. I wish I had watched it more recently so I could do a better job describing it, but even as my memories of how exactly everything played out fade, I won't ever forget how strongly Kuuga portrayed the idea that, as cool as it sounds, being the guy who fights monsters isn't something to be glorified. It's a burden to be taken on, and a heavy one. Without rewatching the show, I can't tell you how much that comes across throughout, but it definitely comes together perfectly at the end, with that final episode in particular making it abundantly clear that the biggest influence Yuusuke had on the people around him was simply being Yuusuke. So needless to say, I like Kuuga a lot, and if I'm being totally honest, it was something of a surreal experience seeing how difficult it was for you to get into. It was also a really valuable experience, too though, because Kuuga has always been a series I have a hard time seeing how anyone could not love, and I think you did a great job as usual explaining why you felt the way you did. I almost wonder if the light in which you see it will change when you have the shows right after to compare it to, but either way, I'm really looking forward to seeing you talk about Agito.
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12-29-2019, 11:17 AM | #177 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
Quote:
That's how I see Kuuga, compared to Rider shows both before it, and after. It acts as a foundation for the shows that have come since, to be sure, but it isn't something that can simply be "topped". It was a show that did a lot of very bold things that few other shows would ever dare to try. Those final episodes in particular are especially reflective of that. Yuusuke's final showdown with Daguva is by far my favorite ending boss fight in the whole franchise. Kuuga was often unconcerned with being as theatrical as your typical hero show, and that scene takes it all the way. It's not triumphant or satisfying. It's two men beating each other to death. It's unpleasant, it's not fun, and I respect the hell out of Kuuga for going that far. Very, very few series besides Kuuga would have the nerve to show their main hero crying as they lay the smackdown on the ultimate evil. Perhaps even fewer would then go on to have a final episode with no hero action whatsoever.
Kuuga, I've always felt, is a show that had something very special to say. I wish I had watched it more recently so I could do a better job describing it, but even as my memories of how exactly everything played out fade, I won't ever forget how strongly Kuuga portrayed the idea that, as cool as it sounds, being the guy who fights monsters isn't something to be glorified. It's a burden to be taken on, and a heavy one. Without rewatching the show, I can't tell you how much that comes across throughout, but it definitely comes together perfectly at the end, with that final episode in particular making it abundantly clear that the biggest influence Yuusuke had on the people around him was simply being Yuusuke. I mean, there is a lot of people talking about the emotional and physical toll being Kuuga is taking on Godai. Many, many scenes of non-Yusuke characters talking about how he's giving up so much to defend them, how he runs the risk of losing his happiness to become more powerful... All of those scenes are in the show and attest to the theme of You Guys Maybe Being A Kamen Rider Sort-Of Sucks Real Bad. But, honestly, I'm not sure anyone told Joe Odagiri? The character of Yusuke is one where, it's a lot of "tell, don't show" for me. He's such a fun, upbeat character, always trying his best and seeing the bright side, protecting smiles, it's a little difficult to square that with how we're constantly told in the final episodes that he is maybe one more fight from losing everything about him that people love and becoming an unstoppable warrior of darkness. Like, he rarely seems that concerned about it? There's a way to read that as him tamping down his fears to not worry his friends and family, but besides maybe one two-parter, we don't really see the potential stakes to Kuuga's growing power. Not to compare this to another show, but it'd be like if the Hazard Trigger were introduced in Build, and Sento used it to defeat a villain without quite losing control, then used the Trigger without any problems for eight episodes, and on the ninth one we got a scene of Banjou and Sawa talking about how dangerous it is for Sento to use the Trigger and how worried everyone watching the show should be for him. That... no. That is not how you convey stakes! And, without giving this paragraph the time it deserves (I really gotta get to work!), I wonder if that's maybe why I'm more down on this series than you were. In the overall, I think Kuuga told its story well. It's just, in the minutiae, I think it had some problems properly dramatizing its themes. There's weird tonal things, the ways a dark story would lead into a light story without really referencing the shift, the ways characters would drop out then reappear as though everyone was waiting for them, the ways scenes didn't feel built to tell a story but to hit a quota... I don't know. I wonder if this is a show that's less fun to watch than to have watched. Quote:
So needless to say, I like Kuuga a lot, and if I'm being totally honest, it was something of a surreal experience seeing how difficult it was for you to get into. It was also a really valuable experience, too though, because Kuuga has always been a series I have a hard time seeing how anyone could not love, and I think you did a great job as usual explaining why you felt the way you did. I almost wonder if the light in which you see it will change when you have the shows right after to compare it to, but either way, I'm really looking forward to seeing you talk about Agito.
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12-29-2019, 03:03 PM | #178 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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More Godai thoughts!
Godai, to me, is maybe the best thing about Kuuga and the worst thing about Kuuga. He's the best because he's bright and fun and cares so much about helping people. He's dedicated to fighting monsters, but he's equally dedicated to entertaining children, letting kids know it's okay to feel sad sometimes, honoring his mentors, lifting up his teammates, and just generally being a good person. He's this beautiful Heisei butterfly, struggling to emerge from the rest of the show's grim, brutal, Showa cocoon. He's sometimes the worst, though, because that Showa cocoon is, like, every other thing in the show but Godai. Ichijou and the Task Force are grim sentinels of justice, desperate to hold back the tides of darkness. Every slight victory is built on the backs of dozens, hundreds, thousands of less-fortunate victims. Godai, I don't know, he mostly seems like he doesn't belong in this show. He's pointing the way to a better future, a more fun Kamen Rider that balances the darkness with hope. But, like, that future isn't in this show. His goofy optimism and upbeat belief in the unstoppable force of good, sometimes I wonder if the show would work better without it, just wallow in the darkness and terror. I got weird feelings about this show!
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12-29-2019, 09:14 PM | #179 |
take me to space
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,406
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Please do not leave your windows open for strangers.
Anyhow, I'm in the same boat of liking Kuuga but I like better the ways the franchise built on what it started. Kuuga's definitely a unique beast in of itself and I wouldn't mind if another series followed it in certain stylistic choices or story beats. I personally also saw the themes about how gaining more and greater power is actually a burden and curse the first time I watched the show, buuuut I also thought the show didn't successfully convey or carry that theme as well as it could have. I know there's such a thing as reading between the lines, but there were times I felt like I had to fill in the lines myself (especially like how Daguva first appearing to Kuuga happened off-screen!?!) I appreciate it, though it'll always be a strange in-between of the Showa era of shows and before the more modern style I know today. I consider Agito to be the real start of the kind of Rider I know today, so I look forward to you getting to that! |
12-29-2019, 09:45 PM | #180 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: World of Ataru
Posts: 857
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Kuuga imo is 1 of my favorite rider shows and it all goes back to the intent of the producer. Producer Shigenori Takatera convinced Joe Odagiri to play the role Godai that he wanted Kuuga to “destroy the image that Kamen Rider had until then”. For context Toei believed at the time that Rider was a relic of the past that the kids of the new milenium just wouldn't get with Kamen Rider it had been away from television for 11 years. Takatera wanted Kuuga to be a show that not only show Rider still being relevent but also to bring those older fans something new for the new milenium.
If I were to give a analogy there a old run down house(Showa) vacant for 11 years, and there these construction workers(Kuuga) coming in to clear away debries for the architects(Agito) to create and build new foundation for a new house(the rest of Heisei). I hope that makes sense. Your right as fan that got into the newer rider shows that it a little jarring for everything that you expect from rider to be frustratingly new and slow but it in this simplistic way of storytelling that I fell in love. Altough I feel Agito maybe more to your speed as it imo has more of Heisei Tropes that were innovated here. But it written by Toshiki Inoue and generally you don't seem to be all that fond of his work.LOL |
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