And heart as well. Even though everything about TOS was tackier, it still somehow felt more real. Star Trek's universe grew bigger and bigger with each series but yet somehow managed to be feel increasingly more artificial and hollow.
The original 60s Star Trek run was the only Star Trek run I truly love, I grew up through pretty much all of Star Trek on and off but I dunno, there is just something about Kirk's crew and adventures that I enjoyed in a way I just didn't with any other.
Me too man, I really want to rewatch all of them. I have to say though, even with my fondness for the new Abrams movies I still rank Wrath of Khan as the best Star Trek movie of all time.
In general, I didn't like the TNG movies much but First Contact was great. Which era is your favorite (including all the TV shows)?
(: And honestly I've not see many of the movies in years, I should probably watch them all again to be honest, I really wanna watch the original series again as well as I have it all on DVD.
Good observation about Spock, I didn't think of that at first.
Well, I guess we won't convince each other, but I did enjoy the debate. I thought it went really well. Out of curiosity, how would you rank the Star Trek movies?
I personally felt Spock and Kirk's relationship deserved way more screen time. And of course emphasising the crew is important but making Kirk redundant isn't. Sulu threatened Harrison, cluing him into the missiles that triggered his surrender. I'd still rather a Captain right all the time, than wrong all the time like Into Darkness Kirk was.
To be fair to you mate the plot was unnecessarily convoluted and playing largely in the background a lot of the film was lost on me in the middle, I had the general ideas but after the 100000000th twist in the background I wasn't really sure what anyone's motivations or purposes were any more. So I'll take your word that stuff would have changed or something if Marcus had died.
True but also when Spock was in command he completely destroyed the Dreadnought, took out Harrison and saved Kirk's life in one fell swoop. Kirk's crew was dying under him while he wasn't achieving anything.
I don't know, but I felt a great camaraderie between Spock and Kirk. It's just the way they interacted, the language they used. They felt like strangers (because they were) fighting together on the Narada in 2009, but here I felt, at least, they were genuinely close.
Also, having the rest of the crew, especially Spock, play a big part in the thinking, logic and decision making is a staple of Star Trek movies. Spock found out what V'ger wanted in TMP. He figured out a plan to defeat Khan and saved the Enterprise in Khan. He found out all about the whales as well as figured out time-travel in Voyage Home. He shot "God" in Final Frontier. He figured out Chang's plan from Valeris. Besides, how can you give Sulu a higher percent than Kirk? What did Sulu do?
Finally, Spock was a terrible captain in the first Trek movie. Maybe it's just the nature of captains to need to be corrected by their subordinates. One thing I disliked about Picard is how he was almost always right.
Kirk stopping Harrison in the beginning was not meaningless, Harrison wanted to exact revenge there and then on Marcus and remove him from the picture. After which he would most likely go to Jupiter to command the Dreadnought and cause chaos in the Federation. The Federation would never have discovered the existence of the Dreadnought or the military developments of Sector 31. Marcus just made that attack into an excuse to manipulate the Enterprise crew, he had not anticipated getting nearly killed. Thus it was not meaningless as it would have meant total victory for Harrison.
The majority of the casualties were when the Enterprise was under Spock's command, not Kirk's so if we're to blame anyone, shouldn't Spock be at fault? Of course I'm not saying it is, but I don't think Kirk should shoulder the blame here. Plus, if he did not care for his crew he would not have readily sacrificed his life.
Did you see how many people died on his ship? And in the cities? Under Kirk's command. At some points Kirk and Scotty are just having a nice chat while bodies are smashing into the walls around them. I'm guessing this is a Red Shirt meme joke but it did nothing to reinforce the suggestion that Kirk was looking after a family, Harrison went to greater lengths to save and avenge his crew than Kirk did his own.
Spock and Kirk's relationship was poorly handled as well, we saw practically nothing of their friendship, about the only thing we saw on screen was them butting heads, so the ridiculous Wrath of Khan reference at the end was laughable.
I really wish Abrams had explored their relationship more considering how crucial it was to the original series but even the most important parts of Trek get put on the back burner in favour of more explosions.