What did you think?

Hmm why do you say so?

Hmm, there is a point there I guess. I guess we need better writers.

So you prefer Venom and Zod to say, Goblin and Luthor?

I never said Joker had similar ability to Batman, though it's always nice when he can hold his own in things like hand-to-hand combat. For me I don't think sharing anything with the hero is necessarily important. All villains are foils to their heroes, and some just demonstrate that by deconstructing the hero (like Bane) while some don't.

I get what you mean about Joker's calculative nature, but I don't think it negates his chaos. His plans are still random and chaotic and sadistically so, but as a normal human he'll need plans to carry them out. Only a supernatural being, like say, Discord, can be truly random because only they can defy the laws of physics to be that way. The Joker is bound by the physical rules of his universe, so he still has some limits and still needs his plans.

There are some attempts at making the Joker more supernatural or unknowable but I don't know how effective that would be.

Ah, that's because your criteria is different. It's true that Bane is pretty much Batman's counterpart in all those things you mentioned. Using those criteria, Zod is Superman's counterpart, and Venom is Spider-man's. And that's why those villains are so well-loved, too, and often considered archenemies to the heroes they oppose.

But personally, I like the Joker because he represents a thematic counterpart to Batman. He is the chaos to Batman's order and while Batman is methodical and calculative, the Joker (seems at least) is random and bizarre. Batman with all his tools is foiled by the Joker with his small bag of tricks. Batman is dark and shadowy, yet good while Joker is bright and colorful, yet evil.

And I think above all is how Joker gets to Batman to the point that their fight is very personal. Joker is not just some guy who fell into a tub of acid. It's like saying Bane is just some guy with steroid powers.

Hmm would you feel it would be as bad if it was a completely original character and not Bane?

Interesting view on Batman's nemesis being Bane. I always saw Joker in that role because Joker is Batman's psychological and thematic counterpart, but Bane is definitely his counterpart in skills, physical ability and intelligence.

Ah I see what you mean about Rises. It's like a massive sense of wasted opportunity with Bane, because it looked like they got his character right only to destroy it at the end.

Have you seen the new episode?

New avatar I see, you Celestia loving dude.

Yay! Still none over here thank goodness!