Beginning the steps - Passing on mass market domestic toys for Japanese toys
 

Yep. Since last year I have been steadily leaning towards Japanese toys and not buying as much domestic stuff. The US Market, while the companies make strides towards collectors(which I think is due in part, to video games), is still dominated by a society which generally thinks toys are for young-uns, and by the almighty colossus called Walmart.

...whereas in Japan the primary target is the collector. With a declining birth rate, and what is perceived as expendable income, Japanese companies cater to the older Japanese fan. What do we share in common with our Japanese brothers? A love for kick ass toys. High levels of detail. The heroes of our childhood modernized.

So I've cherry picked with Marvel Universe, even moreso with Star Wars/Clone Wars, cut back on DCUC, and started saving up more for Japanese goods. For TF's I made a move towards getting FansProject stuff, and more recently, Striker Optimus Prime.

I remember the excitement I had tracking down, and posting news for that thing. Even moreso when it was finally revealed with official images.

Choosing better colors for injection molding, select paint apps, use of diecast metal, impressive engineering, all these factors please me. All of those aspects are what factor into a Japanese collector toy. Whereas in the US the name of the game is cost cutting unless you're NECA or Sideshow.

By the end of this year, my collection will be smaller but better. More Japanese robits. How about you guys? You guys find yourself ditching domestic more now, in lieu of toys from the rising sun?

I think the problem is that there are no innovation for US toys, I mean, look at the action figures, many toys still follows the same joint system, albeit some slight variations, but now check out what the Figuarts have been doing, the US toys just seem... primitive.

Yeah this should definitely get a repost when we go live. I have to agree that US toy standards are becoming pathetic though. Figuarts are the main reason I've almost completely given up on DCUC and DC Direct. Its pathetic what passes for a "collectors line" here compared to a retail line in Japan.

I've pretty much been doing the same thing myself. I find myself less interested in the mass market domestic toys. The Transformers line I feel has nothing to offer me. Even the really good stuff that came out recently: Generations and Reveal The Shield, I just got kind of bored with. I still pick up the occasional Joe figure, and MAYBE a Minimate here or there, but overall I get more enjoyment from getting some really nice (and higher priced) import releases. Pretty much all I really focus on domestically is Lego.

Maybe it's a quality thing, maybe its more of a fact that I rather have this awesome thing that isn't readily available here. Maybe if there were Figuarts in WalMarts and Targets I would be less interested in them...I dunno. But I definitely feel ya here Shin, and it get's a bit confusing because as a collector who likes a lot of different properties, it's very hard to focus, and very difficult to figure out where you would be happiest fitting in.

Very very good point man. It's kind of like...comparing Toynami's Robotech toys to Yamato's Macross toys...

The Figuarts are deceptive in a good way, and I think in a way it hurts them at TRU. For e,xample, the average child or parent doesn't realize just how much engineering went into Shinken Red compared to the Power Rangers Samurai Red figure by Bandai America. I mean vertical hinge joints for the hips in ADDITION to ball hips and thigh swivels? Small amounts of diecast for stability on some figures? Pectoral articulation? I dunno seems like with the average fan/buyer, everything is dictated by size, but in reality, toy costs have to take into account how many tools need to be cut, and the more smaller pieces there are, the higher the tools cost. For example the 4" samurai ranger has substantially less parts than a SH Figuarts. The SH Figuarts torso alone probably has more parts than the 4" figure mold!

Then compare Retrofire Dekarobo to SRC Dekarobo and there's simply no comparison. The latter is much more detailed and intricate, but to the naked eye the average buyer probably thinks it should cost the same as the Retrofire(based on size) without realizing just how much more it costs to produce the SRC.

I think what appeals to us is the engineering and quality involved. For example you mentioned Lego. I very vasually have collected Lego since 06 and something I've noticed is a cponstant push to progress the engineering for better models. For example, Lego is now on its 3rd take on a mini-figure compatible X-Wing and the newest one looks like it could smoke the previous one, and definitely outdoes the original. It's that stride that Lego has, which many manufacturers seem to lack. Megablocks doesn't seem to have the innovation Lego does.

Seems like most US manufacturers stick to what works and innovate slowly. How long did it take to get double jointed elbows and knees into 4H sculpted figures for Mattel? Years. Playmates and Bandai America are behind the times. Jazwares scored hot licenses but put out subpar product. Seems like the name of the game is to do "just enough".

Whereas in Japan, where the market of older collectors is the primary target, it's as if toymaking is an art form. Recently I've been underwhelmed by the Yamato 1/60 VF-17S but saw better pics by the likes of Gamutoys and others, and hot damn....if posed right under good lighting that mold looks chunky and beautiful, and it's HUGE!

I think the overseas market in Asia, is a haven for collectors toys. No way in hell would a company here ever think Project BM figures would have a chance in hell at TRU. Yet in Japan, there's even a store coming for HOT TOYS' products!

At the end of the day I'm just getting "what I pay for" moreso from imported items than domestic. Could be just me but it seems that the innovation here for the most part is stagnant.

I love the two Figuarts I have so far (Original Kamen Rider and Gokai Red), but the line might be a little too expensive for my blood.

As far as importing... I have my ups and downs on it. I remember that when Galaxy Force started, I was all about importing it... but my desire to pay more for slightly better paint apps waned pretty fast. I was all about SoC for a time, but the big ticket stuff was too expensive, and I worry about the stability of the toys over time (my Leopardon's posing arms are essentially ruined from holding up his sword and shield... I'm worried that Battle Fever Robo's neck will be next... I worry about the structural integrity of my Xabungle, etc.)... altho the new, less expensive line is intriguing to me.

So, I dunno. I find myself buying older stuff these days and am less worried about getting the newest stuff from here or Japan.

I totally agree with you guys. I've purchased a few toys domestically in the last year and I was utterly disappointed with most of them. These toys (with the exception of the Prime stuff) honestly feel like cheap knock-offs when compared to the stuff I've imported over the last year; even when stacked next to a model kit. Also looking at cost; it's kinda like comparing everything else to Apple products. The stuff we import is much more expensive than anything else, but it much better than anything else. Catch my point? Anyways, I'll be importing exclusively (with the exception of a few Prime Figures) until March, when I'll have to stop because of college stuffs.

I've joked about "retiring" from Transformers and TFW2005 simply because I have the same mindset and belief as all of you do - domestic mass market toys are just not that intuitive anymore. The innovation is gone ... the better product (in quality, design, look) is coming from overseas.

I've purchased no Transformers since I bought Generations Wheeljack/Thundercracker/Warpath ... and I have no desire to. SH Figuarts on the other hand ... my wallet hates me, but I'm enjoying it way too much. They are really hitting their mark where on the domestic side, everything is falling short.

Time to sell some mass market domestic toys on eBay!

Razerwire and Sentai Tamashii know of my plans to Order66 many of my Armada and Energon figures. Purge for funds to buy moar Japanese toys!

Anyone notice just how far behind US companies are? I mean the average Japanese hobby figure lacks visible joints. Even Revoltech has gotten good at hiding their Revolver joints. Most figures don't have visible pins. Then you see a Mattel or Hasbro 6" comic figure, and while decent, let's face it, the joints are visible everywhere, and 10 years from now if they do a better job of hiding them, some reviewer will point out that they're advancing. Yet in reality, they're behind the times.

A more rather visual comparison is the average Tamashii Nations "Arts" figure compared to Bandai America"s 6" and 8" Thundercats lines. If Tamashii made SH Figuarts Thundercats, they might not feel as sturdy but aesthetically, they'd PWN Bandai America.

The best thing going for US action figures is price. Dollar to yen ratio is ASS right now and might get worse. Meanwhile the price for figures in the US, though it may increase, is still manageable.

I agree with all your sentiments about Japanese versus American toys, but my reasons may differ slightly.

Articulation and accessories are not as appealing for me. I'm not really good at posing and I often worry about losing accessories. Instead, I want my toys to be durable, solid and most importantly, playable. I'm not so sure I can explain it right. For example, attractive as the SRC Sentai bots are, I still prefer the DX figures because of transformation, ratcheting joints and stability. Limited articulation? I don't mind as there are less joints to worry about wearing out. I also enjoy fancy but non-intrusive electronics and gimmicks. I guess you can say I like my toys to be more...toy-like.

In the past, Transformers has largely fulfilled this role. Excellent engineering with decent production values at killer prices made them very attractive. However in recent times, I have been more often disappointed with Transformers than pleased. Figures with loose joints right out of the package, cheap and brittle plastic and transformations that don't lock in tight, Transformers had become steadily boring, which troubled me greatly.

I used to justify my Transformers purchases by saying that they were cheap, which was true. But when I looked at my filled shelves of figures I barely play with or look at, I start to wonder if it was worth it even if they were cheap. I wanted to buy less, but I wanted more substantial toys. In the end, I realized that Super Sentai DX toys currently fulfill this role. As for Transformers, I'll discriminate more, even at their cheap prices.

I guess it's important to note that Lego is not American, but Danish and serves a larger international market. As such, they are not quite as reliant on cutting costs, which may be why Lego is so expensive.

I'm in the same boat. I now only purchase occasional Transformers and shitloads of Japan imports. There's just so much out there that it's pointless to waste time and money hunting for subpar toys around town. Figuarts, Monster Arts, SRC, Robot Damashii, D-arts, SIC, etc all have so much to offer in terms of showing off what a toy can actually do.

I've collected a bit of just about everything domestic too. DCUC, Marvel Universe, MotUC, Neca, Marvel Legends, and even an occaisional Minimate. I can't understand anymore how someone will adamantly sit back and claim Mattel to be the kings of the toy world, when something like a Figuart is sitting RIGHT THERE! (but the MotuC fanboy rant is something for another time)

I'll never drop Transformers though, I may start cherry picking a bit more as time passes, but they're what got me back into toy collecting, so after all this time I'd feel bad kicking them to the curb.

With that in mind, who wants to buy some DCUC and MU ;)

edit: oh and Glyos, can't forget the wonderful Glyos

This. I never buy TF's anymore. I hardly ever buy ANY figure these days,as the average cost is 10 bucks for a not great 3 3/4 figure.

For me it was a big distraction. I blew so much money on GI Joe, Marvel Legends, DC Universe and Transformers which could have went to anime and toku toys, especially when the Yen was so weak. When the Transformer movies came out I took a look at my room and made the decision this wasn't me. So it all went up for sale. A decision I've never regretted.

My collection that I have now is exactly what I want. It's smaller, but it's truer to myself. I can't apologize for being an otaku. It's what I am. Call me a weaboo, poser, or whatever. I'm too old to lie to myself or give a shit what other people think.

Best answer!

QFT . I need to do some serious searching and purging of my Transformers and DCUC/DC Direct collection to refocus on the things I love most. I've definitely paired my collecting down to balance my three main collecting habits to even numbers. But when im honest with my self Toku is the passion I grew up on. Power Rangers came out when I was 4. As much I like saying I was raised on Beast Wars its even more accurate to say that im a child of the American Toku era. I could give up my Transformers easily and miss them but not need them. Now that I've finally reacquired the Toku toys of my childhood I don't think I could part with them again. And now that Figuarts has become my personal standard for 6" scale figures I can easily let go of my DC figures.

Well, going by sheer numbers, I'm primarily a Transformers collector. But you have to take into account that I'm not at the age where I can get a constant, steady income which is enough to frequently spend $35 on a single toy, no matter how great it is. So the only reason I haven't sold off most of my other figures and started collecting solely Toku toys is because that option isn't quite yet available to me. But I'm getting there.

The last Transformer I bought was DOTM Megatron, before that it was ROTF Lockdown. Ever since I bought Revoltech Gurren Lagann (which was probably the turning point in my collection) my interest in Western toys has gone down while importing has skyrocketed. I could blame UK distribution (I probably would have bought some Generations toys had I actually SEEN the ones I wanted here) but truth me told I just don't enjoy them like I used to. I'll always be a Transformers fan, but the days of me collecting the toys are pretty much over.

Japanese toys on the other hand, one thing always seems to lead to another. I started off with Revoltech, then moved on to Figma and now I've finally landed in the Figuarts camp (where I'll be staying for the foreseeable future). All three lines give me much more quality for my money in terms of sculpt, articulation and accessories.

I know it's weird discussing Transformers here rather than on TFW, but I thought that what I wanted to ask was more appropriate for this particular topic.

Are Takara toys better than Hasbro toys quality wise? The only Takara toys I've gotten are Beast Wars, and those, while good, haven't reached Bandai-level of plastic quality. I was just wondering if Takara follows the rule of "Japanese toys are of higher quality due to less cost-cutting".

I don't think that's necessary true, most of the manufactures produces the toys for both US and Japanese side, but the Japanese ones might feel better simply because of the extra paint apps, or it's all in your head because you paid more :D

id much rather buy a Japanese toy than american. they get all the good shit over there be it packaging wise or far superior paint apps

case in point during Ryukis run Bandai made these
http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/o.../Ryuki/001.png
instead of just bringing those here for Dragon Knight we instead got these
http://www.toysnjoys.com/kamenriderd...agonknight.jpg

it was one helluva step backwards too as the R&Ms had a ton more articulation than the DK figures ever had but were quite a few years older. it really does suck that manufacturers here are so concentrated on the kinds more than collectors everything is dumned down so badly here

Well the thing with Takara, they include stuff that TRU and Hasbro and the like wouldn't care about, like the silver platter and brainwave machine for MP Grimlock. That kind of stuff, while small, is a big move to me for collectors. So bravo Takara.

Also, in addition to more paint apps, the plastic they mold their toys in is more catered towards us. Check out voyager 1st edition TF Prime Optimus compared to the Hasbro version. Both look good but the Takara version is excellent.

I agree and WOW...yeah man those DK figures were bad. I wanted good figures because Ryuki has bad ass designs, but yuck, I remember seeing the DK figures in store and wondering WTF happened.

Then I found out just recently, that Tamashii made some SIC figures in GI Joe scale, the Kiwami Tamashii series, WTF!? Stuff like that, in smaller scale..I mean damn...they've got all the bases covered AND it's an affordable line! Now I haven't handled a Kiwami Tamashii figure but I imagine the quality is high.

Recently I was walking through the stores to check out the new Star Wars stuff, and the price increased, meanwhile the mainline is just a bunch of repackaged repaints with minimal articulation. Some of the prices are absurd for the vehicles. Bringing back old prequel figures from years back is a bad move, kids aren't stupid.

I dunno I guess at some point when you're younger, while you're still a child, there are decisions which pave the way for toys in the future. If toys aren't meant to be I guess you ditch them as they are and move onto games. However if you were like me, and started craving more articulation, the path towards becoming a collector starts.

I remember the Toy Biz Spiderman animated series figures. In fact I still have mine. I was like "oh man they gave Venom some elbow joints, kick ass!". Then came, in 1995, the super articulated Spiderman figure. I remember buying it, I think at KB Toys, and that figure, changed it all.

It's worth noting however, that while that seemed advanced at the time, for the US, Japan already had them beat. Look at the 8" ZyuRanger figures which were brought over for MMPR. Those had way more articulation than anything we had, and those were created in the early 90's.

These days the stuff we want is more expensive, but I find that you get more of what you want, and save money in the long run, by pre-ordering collector items. Reserves what you want and gives you time to save for it.

So today I decided to buy, after a long time, a Hasbro Transformer. This was the Voyager Powerizer Prime, seen here (Amazon picture):

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/635...jwblaa1500.jpg

First of all, make no mistake, this is a great figure. Amazing engineering, an very intuitive transformation, with a great design. Some weird design choices, such as the translucent arms, but I'm pleased.

Then I realized that it was hard to get the hood of the vehicle mode to stay together. The connector is a simple friction port, which won't hold well. Wondering if there was something I didn't do right, I looked all over the figure.

Turns out, it was not my fault but another QC problem. One of the pin joints is jutting out at a slight angle, possibly either from poor assembly or low quality plastic. Unfortunately this joint is one of the more crucial joints so having it off-center makes the whole transformation misaligned.

This is greatly frustrating because it's something that could have easily been avoided with greater quality control. It's also very frustrating because this is not the first time this exact same issue has happened to me on a Transformers figure.

And worst of all, more concrete design choices would have worked around this issue! Instead of having a straight friction-based connector port, why not use one of these?

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/6653/connectore.jpg

(Image from CollectionDX)

That would have snapped the hood together even when misaligned.

Or if that's not possible, why not have more connectors instead of just one measly one? For instance, as can be seen in the following picture, the front grill could have loads of connectors to keep the hood together, but there are no functional ones in the actual toy.

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/9...j9ilaa1500.jpg

It's really tiny bits of cost-cutting measures like this that ruin an otherwise fantastic design. I still love the figure, and after lots of fiddling the hood stays together. Yet, all this hassle could simply have been avoided in one way or another. A toy shouldn't need this much fiddling to work!

I guess a few years ago I wouldn't have been so irritated with these issues as I am now. However, Transformers prices are rising, and I have not bought a single Transformer in many years that did not have a QC problem right out of the package (and I am not kidding!). I see myself bothering less and less with the toy aisle in superstores in the future.

Wow, that sucks. I haven't had too much trouble with QC on my TF's. If I do, it's never anything I can't fix. I completely agree with you about the small cost cutting choices they make though.

Bumping this thread because I found myself at a crossroads. I simply have too much stuff and I started looking more at stuff I regretted buying, like "WTF why did I buy this, this sucks!". Then I took a trip to the stores and looked and didn't buy much. It only reinforced my stance on going more towards importing rather than buying domestic. In addition, in recent months I got back into plamo and now want to build MG Figurerise. A few years back, I started to make simple customs and have taken baby steps since. It invigorates my creative side.

Some of the newer domestic stuff just isn't doing it for me. I thought "hey, I'll get that super poseable Amazing Spiderman from the Amazing Spiderman 4" movie line". Bad decision. Figure comes off looking too thin, legs are too long, sculpt was killed for articulation.

Saw Clone Wars, most of it looks cheap, and Hasbro is charging higher all around for Star Wars. However with Star Wars, I understand inflation and all that, but it seems like we are paying more for CHEAPER product. For Spiderman I will just stick with the 6" figures whenever those come out.

For GI Joe, some figures were gimped, I got the Ghost HAWK II, decent but good lord looks like a ninja turtle jet. The 1st Rock figure in the line has a bum right hand for some weird gun attachment contraption.

I got some Thundercats figures but the line looks DEAD. Shame too because the cartoon kicks ass and is one of the best cartoons on in the US.

Then I look at stuff in Japan that I know will cost a pretty penny but will be worth it. I mean I got my 1/60 VF-17S by Yamato a few weeks back and that thing is glorious.

A lot of my money tends to swing towards Japan anyways. The Big three that I collect are:

Gundam Model kits
Kamen Rider/Sentai S.H.Figuarts
Transformers

And the latter is only IF I can find them locally too, but here in Canada, we get the waves a month or so after the states. Very rarely will I delve into any US toy line.

I honestly gave up on collecting Transformers just so I could get Toku Stuff. So far, loving it ^_^

I've also given up on Transformers (except for the new Generations line, looks awesome and totally my style). I bought one Transformers Prime figure (Wheeljack) and regretted it. He looks like an ape with swords. Arms way too big. Can't move worth a shit. And then I pick up my SH Figuarts Gokai Yellow and fall in love with Bandai's SH Figuarts all over again, browse Ebay, and try really hard not to buy Kamen Rider Knight, Kamen Rider Ryuki, Kamen Rider Ouja, Gokai Silver (but I do need him), or worse, drop the $130 for a Gokai Pink.

RIP Transformers. You still take up a majority of my storage unit.

Strange, I thought Wheeljack was one of the best Prime figures. Mine had pretty good quality control too. Perhaps it's a difference in taste? I like the ape arms on Wheeljack.

I dig some of Generations but am crossing fingers FOCtimus Prime is FOCking mis-transformed because all of the official images of him make him look very awkward. Right now the WFC Prime looks a lot better.

I have a good number of Prime RiD and something I noticed was that it took the current design team, a while to get in the groove. For example, I find voyager Megatron to be highly overrated with not only a hollow torso but a terrible upper body connection, and I do wonder why we got new figures of the same characters when the First Editions were already tooled?

It only makes Eric Siebenaler's absence felt even more.

His First Edition TF's for the most part, are superior to their RiD counterparts with exceptions being possibly Arcee and the Vehicon. Compare Prime RiD Prime to the FE and the differences are glaring. I am amazed at how much Siebenaler got right, I mean presumably the RiD was designed later, but shouldn't it be more accurate if that's the case? It's weird. Seems like Hasbro wanted the RiD to focus more on an accurate transformation while Siebenaler intended the FE to look like the CGI model even if it utilized cheats. Hell I don't mind the cheats, FE Prime looks amazing! Hopefully Haskaromy brings it back out.

SH Figuarts is awesome and innovative. Could be expensive sure, but if you were to take apart a SH Figuarts figure and a Marvel Legends figure for example, the Figuarts will more than likely have more small parts and of different material hence the higher production cost. Hell some Figuarts use diecast...that's impressive.

That's awesome that you got Gokai Yellow Kickback, I want her too, and I must add, Ryuki is awesome looking. Haven't taken it out of the package but damn it looks good. Going to get Wing Knight eventually too.

Man, with the recent ToyFair reveals, I'm more tempted than ever to return to buying Transformers. Yet just a cursory look at the Feedback and Toy Discussion sections of TFW have revealed that Hasbro plastic quality, production values and quality control are still rather poor. Figures are still made of cheap, poor plastic, there are still lots of loose joints and overall toys apparently still feel rather flimsy.

It sucks because there are some really cool Transformers coming soon, and I'm really tempted to buy a few of them. I'm just so wary because I don't want to be disappointed.

At least in our Bandai of Japan DX toys, it's just an issue of aesthetic preferences. You either like or don't like a design. In Transformers (and many other modern Western figures), a good design isn't enough to buy a toy because you never know when cheap production values screws up what could be a great toy.

I'm still looking forward to that lovely Metroplex though. :D Here's hoping they use plastic that's at least as durable as Super Sentai's DX mecha.

What do you guys think?