The Writing Problem with Drive and Ghost
 

Many people have an issue with Drive and Ghost. Some don't like Drive because it was coming off from Gaim which was more beloved than Drive and first 24 episodes didn't get fans excited until later ones. Some don't like Ghost because so many writing error and some of characters doesn't have unique personality and rushed storyline.

But I will say that it's the writers for these problems, Head-Writers' job are to make a storyline for Toei. That's their job! Riku Sanjo may NOT be world's greatest Tokusatsu show writer but can do a decent job than Takuro Fukuda. I am NOT hating on him. I felt Takuro Fukuda is a wrong writer for a wrong show. No wonder why Ultraman doesn't get a huge attention like Kamen Rider or Super Sentai. Maybe it's not a great idea to have an Ultraman writer being the head-writer of Kamen Rider. Go ask Sanjo, he didn't make Kyoryuger the masterpiece because he make Kyroyuger "Daigo Sentai Kingranger" I guess Sanjo have a thing for Red Ranger or Kyoryuger is run by Kamen Rider people!

is writing the reason of problems with Drive and Ghost?

I think selling us toys for the first 20 episodes is the main problem. No matter the writer they are going to be handicapped by having so many toys and forms to write in at the very beginning.

I got up with Drive after Mach show up. I still didn't like the show because I find the characters dull. I don't think Riku Sanjo is a good writer. The guy wrote W and got lucky. The guy also wrote other stuff that is not Toku such as MD Geist and Digimon: Xros Wars which both sucked.

For Ghost, I find everyone boring and cliche. Specter is the another typical anti-hero badass secondary rider.

Well it was Takuro Fukuda's fault for not making everyone NOT BORING AND CLICHE. I always thought Specter was Chase 2.0 because his anti-hero attitude and wear a leather jacket for NO REASON.

Takuro Fukuda only wrote 2 episode of Ultraman X and have NEVER wrote on Super Sentai or Kamen Rider prior of him being Head-Writer of Ghost

I guess having an Ultraman writer being head writer of Kamen Rider show wasn't a great idea. Even Ganma Superior look like Ultraman to be honest

I remember we had a Ultraman writer work on Kamen Rider before. Ghost just has a bad story and characters. Decade, Ghost and Drive could have been really great with proper writing and proper direction. Shows like W, OOO and Gaim had really good characters, good story telling and had people that knew how to make a solid show.

Ghost is my first Sentai show but I'm absolutely loving it. If this is considered on the lower end of the spectrum then I can't even fathom how good the rest of the shows must be

Actually, Kamen Rider is probably the most mixed bag of series you could ever get. Especially for the Heisei era. For everyone who loves something like Ryuki you have someone on the other side of the fence who hates it.
Honestly, I think the only 3 series that aren't 50/50 on whether you love it or hate it are Double, OOO, and Gaim. While there are some other popular series (Fourze, Den-O, and my personal favorite, Blade, come to mind), they seem to attract their own fair share of detractors a lot more often than the other 3.

Basically, don't take your enjoyment of Ghost then expect the rest of the franchise to be a blossom of amazement :lol

I figured it was something like that. I absolutely loved the initial quest to collect all of the Eyecons and thought it was a perfect way to kick off the series. Meanwhile, tons of people complained about it and said it had a slow start.

I'm just not sure where I should go from here....I was thinking maybe Amazon, then Drive. I just don't really want to watch Drive while I wait for new episodes of Ghost, because I'll most certainly catch up by the time the next episode premiers (I just finished 28). Perhaps I'll watch Drive when Ghost ends to give whatever the next series is a couple of episodes to get going before I start it.

edit: Oh, the guy who plays Javel is in Gekiranger? Maybe I should finally get around to checking that one out...

I'm proud of myself for being able to look him up and instantly recognize which character he played just by looking at his image :lol

Yeah, check out Gekiranger. It's awesome.

How To Fix Kamen Rider
 

2016 is NOT a great year for Kamen Rider. Hold on! I think Amazons is more entertaining than Ghost but not everyone is a fan of Ghost. I bet they prefer watching Zyuohger over Ghost! so I thought let improve Kamen Rider! And i know to do it! If you want Next Kamen Rider to be 10 times better than Ghost and even Drive! LET FIX KAMEN RIDER! We are fixing Kamen Rider!

NUMBER 1: NO REHASH!

Let the last show that doesn't have a generic typical anti-hero secondary rider that wear a leather jacket for no reason? that doesn't have a nonsense comic relief that do a weird face and doesn't a dark rider that look like a MAIN Kamen Rider. To be honest, I thought Gaim was the most unique Kamen Rider show that have a dark tone but Baron was a typical anti-hero who wear a jacket but somehow he was considered to be popular by Toei that they give him a freaking Lemon Arms! After that, Chase and Makoto would become Kaito Clone! If the character was so popular, Don't make the new character act like him! Toei are trying to recreate a magic from beloved Kamen Rider and turn it a cash in! Toei are recycle same stuff! Over and over again! I believed Onari was inspired by Chief Honganji because both of them are nonsense! stop making comic relief look bad! And please save up the money Toei because I don't want a same old Dark Rider that basically look like a Main Rider! I want an evil rider but with different look! I bet Next Kamen Rider's Summer Movie going have a dark rider who look like him

NUMBER 2: PROPER WRITING

The biggest problem with Ghost is the Head Writer doesn't know what to do with Ghost! Get a writer that actually know what he doing with the characters and the story! Don't spent first 24 episodes on nonsense comedy! Add a story element! That's how why Drive didn't do well with audience for First 24 episodes! Don't rushed the story! What is the whole point of rushing the story of you have 48 episodes to write on!

NUMBER 3: MAKE THE MOST ENTERTAINING KAMEN RIDER SHOW!

Some of you guys think Drive and Ghost was boring to watch. For me, I thought Wizard was the MOST BORING KAMEN RIDER SHOW EVER! It so boring that I actually skipped some of their episodes! I want Next Kamen Rider show to be THE MOST ENTERTAINING SHOW OF ALL-TIME! I was entertaining by DEN-O and Gaim! Okay I sound like if I want next one to be more comedy :o

NUMBER 4: MAKE THE SECONDARY RIDER UNIQUE!

Everyone are so tired of seeing a same old generic rival that act like badass and wear a leather jacket for no reason, I know why they made Chase and Makoto Kaito clone because Kaito was popular among the fans but that doesn't guarantee the success for Next Secondary Rider! I got idea! Make The Next Secondary Rider a clown! :rolleyes

NUMBER 5: NO CONTINUITY ERROR FOR THE MOVIE!

My problem with OOO and Ghost that they make their movie if the movie took place in alternate timeline! OOO team up movie with W have Eiji not having a job despite him already got a job! Don't get me starting on that team up movie with Den-O movie! Summer Movie have Akira still being Birth and Uva being part of the villain group despite Akira already leave to get a surgery and Uva get betray by them! Well OOO team up movie with Fourze is the only OOO movie that doesn't have continuity error. Ghost's Team Up movie with Drive have Saionji and Alain already become Necrom but Saionji was already dead and Alain didn't get Necrom Eyecon yet! I'm so confused by Kamen Rider 1 timeline movie! Stop it Toei! Enough is enough! I am suffered from continuity error! Damn you! :mad:

NUMBER 6: MORE INSERT SONG!

I am so surprised we haven't got insert song from Ghost and why? Is Kishidan the reason of why we haven't got any insert song! I'm disappointed in them! Are they too lazy to do a simple insert song? To be honest Ghost doesn't have any badass song because their theme song is a typical anime song but doesn't reach the badass level. The song from Ghost-Drive team up movie sound like a love song! Toei! You got lot of money and you not giving us an insert song! I campaigned for Next Kamen Rider to have MORE INSERT SONGS!

NUMBER 7: GET THE MOST BEAUTIFUL ACTRESS TO BE THE LEAD HEROINE!

To be honest, I have a massive crush on Kiriko because she just so beautiful! I think (NOT TO BE SEXIST) Akari and Mai are not beautiful and maybe Next Kamen Rider should find a more beautiful actress to be Lead Heroine! Come on! Toei!

What is your way of fixing Kamen Rider?!

My way to fix Kamen Rider is to write the story before you make the toys.

^^^

Applies to Sentai, too.

Making music is not "simple", you know? Nor is it cheap either.

"Is Kishidan the reason of why we haven't got any insert song! I'm disappointed in them! Are they too lazy to do a simple insert song?"

Honestly, I don't think you know how any of this works.

What exactly is an insert song?

Character songs that play during scenes that involves them.

Kouta's Raise Up Your Flag, Tajador's Time Judged All, etc.

I didn't realise people needed a reason to wear clothes.

Normally it's stuff like the musical numbers in Phineas and Ferb or MLP: a song that exists for the plot of the episode to act as musical exposition or a montage.


In Rider, there are Image Songs, which are similar but just act as background music for a particular scene. For example, when Kiva goes Emperor, we hear Supernova in the background. It's lyrics aren't always descriptive of the scene, if ever, but the point is that it's a kickass theme song for the character or current form.

Oh boy, here we go...

I heavily disagree. Ghost may be a sub-par show, but Amazons kicks ass and is a great first start for more online shows to come.

And then there's the Rider 1 movie which most of us haven't seen yet, that one could be pretty cool. Also there will be a new show starting in October.

So don't say that this is not a good year for Kamen Rider, because one it's not over yet and two you're wrong.

Who cares what they wear? Baron, Chase and Specter are completely different characters.

Again: Who cares? Dark Riders who appear in movies are not what's wrong with Kamen Rider. If you don't like them then that's your problem, I'm cool with it as long as the character is interesting.

Nope. That's flat out wrong.

Are you inspired by the chief too?

And no, there's no inspiration involved, it's just a type of character children love, that's about it.

How about having funny and proper writen comic relief characters instead?

Why? Where is your source that tells us that all of this was his idea? You pulled the same shit in the Sentai topic where you randomly started to point out a producer and blamed him for everything that went wrong with the show.

And I'm gonna tell you the same thing I told you back then: That's bullshit.

"Everyone" as in "Me but I use "Everyone" so people think I'm not the only one who thinks this" as usual?

And no, that's not the problem. Generic is yes, but being a badass or wearing leather jackets has nothing to do with the issue.

The problem with most secondary Riders is that they clash with the main Riders for stupid reasons and that they sometimes just aren't very good characters.

Again, your problem. Nothing really wrong with the franchise. If you wanna talk about what's wrong with lots of the movies try the boring inclusion of Shocker, the Taisen movies which recycle the same plots over and over again, or the pointless Sentai cameos.

Maybe the main dude doesn't sing? Or they thought the music wouldn't fit? Anyways, I'm not really bothered by the lack of insert songs.

Yeah no, that is sexist as hell. Akari and Mai are beautiful, but that's not the prime factor you should judge anyways.

You should judge if they are good characters or not. And while Mai was a bit bland, both Kiriko and Akari are awesome. In fact, Akari is one of if not the only character from this show I actually care about. She's a good character and the actress does a good job portraying her.

And you made a lot of shitty stuff up here on what's "wrong" with Kamen Rider but calling out the lead female support character based on her look is just terrible.

That's an all time low, even for your standards, and you post a lot of garbage.

Better comedic relief characters, more interesting characters, less gimmicks and form changes.

Drive is quite boring in first nine episodes, episode 14-17, and episode 23-24.
But Drive become more interesting when the story involve Roidmude 001, Nira, and Gold Drive....

Hmm...Ghost's story not boring in my opinion (especialy about some unaswered question. example: Sennin and Eddith, Takeru's Mother, Makoto's past when he obtain Tutankhamun and Houdini, etc...)

But, I am always felt the form usage in Ghosts (except form usages for Specter, Tutankhamun, and Nobunaga) is not really good and quite boring. The most boring form usage is when Ghost use Grateful Damashii against weaker enemy such as Ganma Commando and Ganma Superior. If Ghost can beat Ganma Ultima why when he use Grateful, he still has difficulty when against Ganma Commando and Ganma Superior?

And some Damashii not yet use Omega Drive (Omega Ulorder for Necrom) finisher in the series. Example: Beethoven, Ryoma, Goemon, and Grimm....

Akari is the most proactive character in the entire show. Every obstacle she comes across she solves without any sort of special power, but by understanding it and coming up with a scientific and practical solution for it. And in a show that's become increasingly reliant on magical BS, it's amazing how relevant the show has managed to keep her.

She isn't just the best character in the show, she's one of the best female characters the franchise has ever come up with (including female riders). It's just a massive shame that Ghost was the show she ended up in.

Leave them how they are because they are two of my favorite Kamen Rider shows ever? Okay moving beyond the bias now. I think both shows could have done a little less on the toy commercial in the beginning but I think both told and are telling great stories overall. Drive should have had some of the story elements like about Shinnosuke's father in the beginning and not had Mashin Chaser go back to being a bad guy after finding out he was Proto-Drive. Still the overall product of Drive and how Ghost is now is pretty good. If we want to get into a show that had writing problems that is Gaim in a nut shell.

Pun intended? :D
However please continue, I'm quite interested to know what you think Gaim's flaws are if you genuinely think Ghost doesn't majorly suffer from any.

I still don't really see what's wrong with Ghost. Maybe since it's my first Heisei Rider series, a lot of elements that are seen as overdone to you guys are fresh and exciting to me? Specter is cool because he's a rival that wears leather FOR NO REASON! The beginning where they're gathering the Eyecons is cool because it reminds me of Dragon Ball's first arc, which is one of my favorite parts of that show. I like all of the characters, even Onari. I REALLY like Alain's development. I'm okay with the form changes because they're used strategically - Oh, I need a gun? Let's bring out Billy the Kid! I like Grateful Damashii and it makes sense to use it frequently, since...well why use weaker forms when you have a more powerful form? The only thing that bothers me sometimes is the inconsistencies with the strengths of the characters. The show has managed to keep me entertained and wanting to watch the next episode immediately. It's actually the fastest I've gone through a toku show because I just can't stop watching it.

By insert songs, do you mean like...when the opening theme plays during climactic fights? I always love when shows do that but the fact that Ghost doesn't isn't an issue for me.

Similar to that- previous series have had other songs, often sung by members of the main cast, to go with certain forms. Ghost seems to be the first where this isn't happening, which is a shame, as some of the songs are really good. Case in point: Ranbu Escalation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYkxN4_-JuU

Pretty much, yeah. I watched Wizard early on so I gave it a lot more credit than it deserved. After watching some more shows I realized how weak Wizard is.

But hey, watching a rather weak show first is not a bad thing. Because the next shows you’ll watch will be even better and you will still enjoy your first watch of Ghost now.

If you like Ghost then stuff like W, OOO and Gaim will blow you away.

Well Ghost seems to be tying back into it's earlier episodes and is building stuff up for later.

What I feel Gaim's flaws were definitely the ending, I feel that Sagara was the true villain and he wasn't played like that. I feel that Kaito becoming evil kind of wrecked his character. They built up a lot for Marika but she never developed into what she could have been. Kouta is the main flaw for me he is so unbalanced like he went out of his way to try and save Micchy but he doesn't go out of his way to try and save Kaito? They both became monsters but only one of them is able to be saved? I also think that Kouta should have destroyed Sagara and stop him from having anyone else play the stupid evolutionary game he makes people play. I mean all the trouble he saw that it caused from both his world and the Invess's why would he let that continue? It even back fires on him in the Gaim/Drive movie. Micchy's go evil and twisted arc I think went on for too long too.

Now I can admit Ghost has had it's flaws like what it did to Makoto back to back in the late teens and early twenties. I mean no Kamen Rider show is flawless but I genuinely enjoyed Drive and love Ghost right now. Though I still worry about Ghost because I loved Gaim for the longest time and then the ending ruined it for me. Though Gaim still has some of my favorite Kamen Riders though so I do say it did some things right.

Maybe Ghost could have also explained some of the things in the beginning like what the heck Captain Ghost is, maybe hinted at the Ganma world earlier but overall I think it's doing a fantastic job.

To be fair it depends on who you are and your tastes. Like I have like 9 more series to watch of Kamen Rider and I think Ghost is one of the best Kamen Rider shows right now. Also for reasons stated in my other post I think Gaim is one of the worst. I am loving Fourze right now but I think Ghost does the message better. Though OOO will continue to be one of my favorites. OOO was my first series and it didn't stop me from watching more. I watched Kiva right after it and still loved the hell out of it. So if you are enjoying Ghost enjoy Ghost. To continue with the Gaim puns each Kamen Rider is like it's own fruit you like some more than others.

Would you mind putting spoiler tags around your post? That's some heavy Gaim spoilers right there.

And I disagree with a good bit of the things you said about Gaim but I don't want to blow this thread out of proportion.

Well I can certainly see your argument some of your points (especially Marika), but there's a couple of things I disagree with.

How you feel is one thing, but he was definitely never the "true" villain nor was he ever meant to be. Gaim is a story about humans first and foremost, more specially about the temptation of ultimate power and how said power corrupts. This is present in almost everything Gen Urobuchi writes - Madoka, Psycho-Pass, Gargantia, Aldnoah.Zero...I could go on. Gaim even had the imagery to enforce it all the more. Sagara/Helheim isn't inherently evil, it simply serves a purpose, its what humans choose to do with the power that causes disaster. Whether its Kaito, Ryouma, Yggdrasil, the Inves (who were also humans once), the result is the same.

His motivations were clear as day from the very first episode. His character never changed.

As I said above, Kaito made his intentions clear right from the very beginning. Yes Micchy went off the deep end, but he was also highly unstable and constantly being manipulated. No-one manipulated Kaito, he used people to his own ends and knew exactly what he wanted.

The guy discarded his humanity for the sake of his cause, that's about as symbolic of being at the point of no return as you can get.

I do agree that the generic rival secondary rider has been getting old for a while now. It also gets boring when they end up becoming friends at the end. With Baron, he became the final villain which was pretty new if you ask me.

I feel like Ghost is a very good show. There are rising stakes, characters going through actual inner conflict, and an interesting world with more depth than we usually get. The first quarter of Ghost is absolutely terrible, but it's like it became an entirely different show after Takeru got his Boost form. The show started pacing itself better, taking things more seriously, the comedy wasn't nearly as intrusive as it could have been. Also, Ghost got rid of one of my biggest pet peeves in the franchise yet again, the strict adherence to two parters even when they are justified by the story.

Drive? Now that's a terrible show. Great underlying idea with the Roimude and their end game, but not absolutely lacking in execution, almost to the extent I felt Wizard lacked execution.

This is as someone who has seen every Kamen Rider series to date, Ghost when it's good is one of the better ones, IMO. Ghost is up there with Gaim and Double as my favorite shows of the post-Decade run.

This means a lot coming from you! Looks like I need to buck up and get serious about Ghost again. I left off at episode 12, and liked it well enough, but its lack of specialness made it hard to get really invested.

I couldn't agree more with your assessment of Drive.

That's what I don't like about shows like Drive. I think it's bad for a show to take forever to be good. It's bad story telling if your show does not get good until 20 or 30 episodes into the story. I think your show should always be good from the very start. First impressions always help because you want to suck your viewers into the world that you created and want to make them check out more as the show goes on. Not every first episode is going to be good or great, but it should be decent enough to have your viewers tune in.

Otherwise, the viewers are wasting their time going up to episode 20 or 35 just to get good. It's like saying "Don't drop Bleach because the show gets so much better at episode 58!!". I don't plan on finishing Drive because I give up on the show after Mach show up. I give the show more than one chance and I still did not like it. Drive is the rider show that I drop since Kiva. Ghost is just as bad with boring villains, boring supporting cast of characters and a boring main rider. I drop Ghost after episode 10 and I don't plan on watching more.

I like Ghost but only because of the plot. Unlike Drive, it started off with a clear goal in mind and it kept to it. The only other series that comes to mind is Gaim but that's miles ahead of Ghost in terms of writing.

However and that's a big however, all the characters in Ghost save for Necrom and Akari are too flat. Takeru is the generic lead, Makoto is his rival, Onari is juvenile screaming comic relief. Kanon, Shibuya and Narita are human furniture.

And the show relies too much on gimmicks. Gaim and Double had the right idea to limit the gimmicks. And they didn't even go on gimmick hunts. Gaim naturally had gimmicks written into the plot while Double started off with nearly all of them in place. Tone down the gimmicks in the next series, Toei. I know you make most of your revenue from the toys but there has to be a limit on how low you would stoop.

And thirdly, the cast is too bloated. Too many characters slow the plot down. If the need of many characters is felt, make sure not to put too many of them in a room together. The less characters there are, the more meaningful dialogue there can be and the more fluidly the plot will flow.

Blade did it better. Gaim was just Ryuki, Faiz, and Blade in a blender together.

The irony of vinish starting a thread about bad writing is glorious


Dude your posting is terrible, like its post in a different language and then run through five different translations before arriving in English


But yeah ghosts writing sucks

Well as I have had this debate like a month or two ago I am always prepared for this. Well I have only seen three and half things by Gen Urobuchi and only ones that I liked the most was Expelled from Paradise and his character from Chaos Dragon was intriguing. If all his stories are about how power corrupts isn't that a little cliché? Thus only helping my argument that Gaim has writing issues lol. See everyone always brings up the temptation aspect with Sagara yet he only gave the power ups to Kouta, because if he gave it to any of the other 3, they would have killed him realizing that he was the mastermind behind it all. Continuing the writing problems they never go into why Sagara did this and if he is neutral than who gave him the power to do this? Also Kaito did change he was starting to work with the others and become this leader. When he got cut stupidly that's when he started to go off the deep end and now I can believe that the Invess power made him go mad; which is fine but leads to why didn't Kouta try and save him them if he was driven mad? Yes Micchy was unstable but if Kouta wasn't an idiot he could tried to save his friend sooner. Continuing that Sagara is the main villain argument if you remove him from the equation the entire show doesn't happen because there is no Invess Forest, there is no Lockseeds, there is no Kamen Rider. Sagara gives the power to the Invess which then leads to the forest. Now see I am not saying Sagara is evil but I am saying he is the villain or main antagonist.

Most people think Breaking Bad's first season sucks, but after that it's one of the best tv shows I've ever seen. Sure, it'd be nice if the first 6 episodes were better (I liked them though) but in some cases it's absolutely worth pushing through the beginning. 6 45-minute episodes that aren't spectacular vs 4 seasons of absolutely amazing episodes.

That's one of the things I really like about Ghost, it has direction in its plot

Once again, maybe this might be because I'm not too familiar with Heisei Riders, but I really enjoyed the eyecon hunt in the first 10 episodes. It felt like early episodes of Dragon Ball, where they went on an adventure collecting things that gave them a wish. Combine that with the main cast solving paranormal cases and you definitely have my attention.

I think he is talking about the cliche anti-hero characters that are common in fiction. They always wear edgy looking things like black leather jackets and have the "I don't care about anyone else besides me" attitude. I feel like we have too many secondary riders that are anti-heroes. More riders similar to Birth would be nice.

You still don't need a reason to wear a leather jacket. It isn't even like Chase and Makoto have remotely similar jackets.

Besides, the show is called Kamen RIDER. It shouldn't seem that unbelievable that multiple characters are going to wear biker jackets, even if riding motorcycles has become something of a foreign concept.