Kamen Rider Zi-O Episode 4- "No Continue 2016!" Discussion
 

Sougo has met the Genius Gamer M, who is actually medical intern Emu Hojo. However, Emu has no memories of being a Kamen Rider! Meanwhile, Another Rider Ex-Aid is still on the loose...

All I can comment on for now is what I saw on twitter and OH MY GOD FOURZE WHY DID THEY DO THIS TO YOU YOU GOODEST BOY

Link not working.

I'm glad the first two-parter wasn't a sign of the overall quality of the show because I quite enjoyed the Ex-Aid 2 parter:

Episode 03 had a much more natural pace to it, and we got to see more of Sougo's regular life and how Tsukuyomi and Geiz impact it (in a very funny montage). Aside from that we get some nice character moments that slightly flesh out the characters. It was a good episode to slow things down, and the breadcrumbs for the actual Ex-Aid tribute was well set-up.

Now episode 04 was actually a very good tribute episode. It didn't mess with Ex-Aid's continuity badly, and we even got direct placement in the timeline with the reuse of footage from the actual season (it was nice to see Brave again, even if it was through stock footage). Hiro and Emu acted very much in-character, and they represented the themes and visual identity of the show very accurately. Unlike the Build arc, I actually felt like I was taken back to the year the original show took place. Using the same filming locations really helped with that.

The fight was great. I don't particularly like the design of Ex-Aid armour but I love that it mixed Zi-O's own motif in with the original Ex-Aid effects (the "HIT" and "CRITICAL FINISHER" images appearing in katakana). I also think it's cute that Sougo has his own take on the original Rider's catchphrase and finisher, much to the original's dismay. The way he broke the fourth wall during the Critical Time Break and used the split-screen slide as a literal projectile was absolutely hilarious.

Overall I really liked this episode. It did Ex-Aid justice while also moving its own story forward. Even the CGI robot fight looked pretty good this time around. Some of the explanations from the 0.5 episodes that people complained should have been in the show proper are actually being mentioned so I hope that is satisfying people. And nice Gentaro tease at the end there. It's just a shame the actor probably won't be in the next arc. Which also seems kind of weird. It looks primarily to be a Fourze tribute, so I really wonder what the Faiz portion will entail.

4.5 was great, basically telling us that the only difference between the A (Proper Timeline Rider's) and B (Post Zi-O timeline mess-up) versions of the character are that they aren't Rider's, and their personalities will stay the same. They show that off quite humorously with Hiro saying his signature line.

Hopefully the show keeps going up in quality from here!

Content of the episode isn't super duper memorable but what they did is cool. Especially the arrival of Geiz during Ex-Aid Ep2.

This episode isn't bad but not good either. Tokiwa Sougo's actor's acting is pretty bad I can't stand him. The Ex-Aid armor design was so bad. I don't know if I will keep watching this show.

Again, I don't like that " I wanna be a king".

And what the heck? Why is Faiz in a Fourze Episode? ( that means that they skip Drive and Ghost or what?...)

I really like Tsukuyomi and Geiz...though....

Nothing too bad to say about the episode, I like Zi-o's own twist on the Ex-Aid finisher x)

Some actors have schedule you know.
It's either you follow the series in reverse time and don't get the actors to return if it doesn't match their schedule or the opposite.

This episode "was" their Ghost tribute. Captain Ghost got more action here than he ever did in his own series!

In actual reviewing, this was a pretty good episode, that managed to remind me of Ex-Aid in more than just "we got the actors back, woop". The medical drama tone, Emu's refusal to let anyone suffer, including the 'villains', Sougo proving himself to his more abrasive allies. Heck, even the good old rooftop came back. Maybe it's just because I'm learning to roll with the more loose time travel rules, maybe it's because I'm a sucker for the eternal game, but this one was a good one. Plus, Ex-Aid Zi-O's finisher is a thing of beauty.

There's only one way this could have been better - Dan Kuroto.

1 page. People are really not warming up yet. This episode is a real tribute to ex aid. Build was more of a multi appearance cameo that revolves around introducing the new cast and its toy. I hate they retcon the merge and the ending tie in even thought build promo for repaint movie merch did the same itself.

I like the villains are not just mindless monster and the link between the motw creation contract is directly related to ex aid. Also, the main hero seems way too competent and treat this like a game despite he does have a sense of justice like all riders nowadays. he does feel somewhat remorseful, but he doesnt really ask a lot of questions himself. yeah schedule conflict with actors along with toy releases. I guess they need to do this episode first, so the they can release the toy that was in the episode first. However, some actors grown out of toku with some openly talk about bad experiences on set, lengthy hours, and paid, but its a good training experience along with exposure to better opportunities for fame later on. Build is contracted for the movies, so I guess they want to save some budget for the upcoming movies. 555 actors returned before and I guess he's free and he doesn't seem to be receiving much gig, so he return, but in a fourze episode unless they want to make them recurring "mentor" like characters. A lot of question about future zio and time jackers that revolves around the original riders still doesn't make sense and I doubt it will be explain clearly.

Hey everyone, guess what time it is!

https://i.imgur.com/flyXefe.jpg

Time for me to take back what I said about the CG not being awful. I must've been confused after the first episode because Build's effects were even worse, but these two guys clunking around here didn't look any better than WizarDragon, and that was like 6 years ago.

The episode itself was great though! The first episode of Zi-O to feel more or less like a normal episode, and much better for it.

The main trio's characters are more or less fully established now, and Sougo especially is starting to shape up into something actually kind of interesting. We even get to see hints of him becoming more than just some loser high school kid someday, between him getting his brain in top gear to solve the big mystery, and his overall genuine heroic attitude throughout the episode.

Emu was utilized extremely well, and while it probably helps that Kento Shimoyama has experience writing him from Go-Rider, his character actually gets to shine through, which is hopefully a sign that Sento and Ryuuga's underwhelming appearances were indeed just down to those episodes having to do all the setup for the show.

If someone who hasn't watched Ex-Aid saw this (and there are definitely people out there in that position), they'd actually get a decent idea of what made Emu such a cool dude. I especially loved how as Ex-Aid he's consistently shown to beat the crap out of everyone. You really get the feeling that he could've easily trounced all the monsters himself if his powers weren't taken away from him. I was kind of expecting him to do some speechifying about changing fate or making people smile or something, but even without that, this episode does exactly what a guest spot like this ought to. Remind everybody why the old guy is cool without stealing the new guy's thunder.

As for more minor things, the gag with the finisher this time got me WAY harder than the already pretty funny one for the Build Armor, if only because the idea that those split-screens were physical objects is something that would've never occurred to me. That was super inspired. I also liked Geiz showing up to a place on a bike. Which is as minor as a minor point can get, but after countless episodes of Kamen Rider where characters need to get to a place in a hurry only to show up on foot, that made me unbelievably happy.

Although for all this praise I gave this episode, it's clear next week is going to be jumping through some hoops to give us a Fourze-themed episode with a pinch of Faiz. Or maybe just a Faiz-themed episode in Fourze's setting? I have absolutely no clue until it airs, but hopefully it pulls off whatever it's trying.

I wouldn't exactly say they retconned it yet, it was implied it still happend somehow. Sougo trying to enter Nascita's lab in 2018 and getting an actual fridge was meant to imply that it was after the merge. It makes no sense but whatever all of Zi-O will be retconned by the end probably.

I liked the episode, it's obvious they just used the Build arc to set everything up and we'll see our favorite (gay) couple in a better light next year when the Blu-ray of Heisei Gens Forever comes out.

I like Ex-Aid so it was nice seeing Emu be Emu again, the time travel mechanic still annoys me but I can look past it knowing that it's just a show and it'll most likely all be fixed by the end, if not by that point I can get annoyed.

Yeah this two-parter seemed a lot better to me, not bad, not great, but definitely more solid than the Build two-parter. Random things I noticed this ep:

- The Captain Ghost cameo made me realize that kids are now gonna have to go back to the old Ghost Change toyline to get certain figures if they want to recreate certain scenes like the mech fight in this episode, or Geiz's Ghost Armor debut that him summoning the hoodies to fight Zi-O. A+ marketing Toei, I'm legitimately impressed you were able to think of that.

- Another Ex-Aid being aware of what he's doing seems to imply the another riders regain sentience some time after a year, since Another Build was still acting on his base instincts from 2017 to 2018.

- Hora being able to stop Geiz and Zi-O while pausing time while Wool didn't either means she's currently stronger than him, or Wool was intentionally letting the two move in frozen time when he meet them in episode 2.

- Zi-O's Ex-Aid Armor hit effects are in Katakana, which is a nice touch.

- I love the Overtime translation for Geiz's axe: "Oh no! An Axe!"

Loved it so far. Glad to see it starting to fill in gaps more and explaining bits like the saving people stuff.

Also interesting to see how the Faiz phone acts like a time phone to call across the time stream. Also interesting to see how there's more than one. Guessing Sougo will get one later, or the origin of them at some point.

Also curious was the ride watch holder. Have a feeling that'll come back up later as more ride watches are added to it. Really has a kind of battery feel to it, so that makes me curious what'll happen as it's powered up more, or how it's integrated later into a Time Majin maybe.

Liked the 4.5 too and how it explained the A.M./B.M. stuff.

Looks like the explaining the Kaijin drives is there, the victims are indeed tied to them in some manner. Another Build was after athletes, another Ex-aid was after Donors. Loved Wool's Time Majin too, it was very Ryuki, mixed with Wizard, and liked the Pirate Ship motif too, very referential of Gokai but also makes sense with the time jackers in how they act like Time Pirates attempting to steal time.

Overall, really loving how the show is developing out.

They didn't retcon anything really. The show itself was erased. Sort of a retcon, but really it's more that in Zi-O's world, Rider histories are changed. The fridge thing was more because Sento's lab is gone now. When his timeline was erased, so was everything associated to it for now. That'll likely come back up later. At some point the riders will need to be restored, because it may have further reaching impacts than they realize yet. But the boundaries of "parallel worlds" isn't an issue with the time travel and is being ignored. So we should likely expect similar for Gaim and Wizard too, same to Faiz and other pre-Decade shows. That's part of the 4th wall break to the show. In Zi-O all rider shows happened in this merged timeline.

So Build's show, and Build's side media is still active to itself. Zi-O is kind of like Decade in that way. It's more 'another world'/parallel world version, but is done through time travel in this united timeline world where all rider shows are connected. So all of what happened in Build still happened, is still part of Build's world/new World. Is still capable of extended specials. But in Zi-O, as of Build's episode, his timeline is erased. To each show is their own continuity, and to each movie goes that as counted towards usually. But it's essentially still rule 3, "Don't overthink it. Enjoy the ride(r)."

So before jumping to conclusions, best to see how the series plays out first. Like this episode explained much of the questions from episode 2 about motivations as well. So later episodes will likely expand the scope, ramifications and push the story forward more as more is revealed, and other issues from their time travel start to show up. Because so far, each rider is losing their rider presence in the year they started. So that means they never defeated their respective big bads either. Though for most, there is the question if their big bad would still be created if their 'show' was erased. So let's wait and see how it plays out. We're only on episode 4 now, lots of twists and turns to come.

Wool's Time Majin is just Captain Ghost from Ghost, it's got more screentime here then it did in the show it came from.

His name is Uhr though.
Wool sounds stupid as f*ck.

Geiz from the future has Ghost watch. Uhr from the future has Captain Ghost

Takeru died again, didn't he

It's what he does best goddammit. Also I'd make a big post like the other episodes but I forgot to do that and don't feel like watching the episode again. Episode was cool though, sets a higher standard for the Another Riders

We can only hope.

I liked the episode, but at this point it still feels like I’m here more for the old show cameos than I am for Sougo’s story. I’m hoping that will change as we go on and he starts getting more defined. I don’t dislike him, but he’s just kinda there so far.

Sougo is getting better by each episode IMO. What I'm more concerned about is the way the show is handling the legend Riders. So far, they barely get to do anything as Riders since Another Rider take away their powers and all they can do is watch Zi-O use their power. I hope the show will find away so we actually get to see some team up between Zi-O, Geiz and the legends

Btw, I have a feeling Kusaka and Takumi in the next episode are ghosts. Kusaka is plotting something so comeback to life and Takumi is trying to stop him

If the rider history is deleted then what about the villains they're fighting? I'm sure some might be immune like silly deno and the singular point. It was a much better tribute thus time compare to build. Build was just bad since they're not the focus and was just there for silly cameos. What was the point of including the ride watch in the finale then. I'm not going to talk about the possession, dimension, and movie tie in repaint and rehash that was done in kyuranger the year before. Overalls, build was still a good show with good characters. Zio trio aren't that interesting and the most mature one is the female. Geiz is like a Specter except he's not so bright himself. The main hero just want to have fun and kind of a airhead. Really, the motw just roam for 2 years. are they contracted to evolve in to their own destruction king or not. the next time jacker looks like Zed from toqger. 555 and kaixa are too old to play themselves in 03 unless it's in suits or they have a plan. I'm curious if they're in in 2011 or 2018 and will they bring up the previous appearance from a few years ago. Kaixa like ohja are really just fan favorite, but within their own show despite he's just a minor character compares to kiba's gang and the laundry boy.

As Sougo is currently, he is not bad, but he is not a great main character either like Sentou was.

As long as he does not turn into god damn Ghost, if there is a single main character I truly dislike to watch it is Ghost....

This is the one big sticking point for me, too. There have to be at least a half dozen apocalyptic events that were prevented by the Heisei Riders, so what happened to the villains? If there's no Ex-Aid, why isn't Kamen Rider Chronicle running rampant? If there was no Blade, why isn't the world swarming with roach monsters? I really hope we get an explanation for this at some point.

I think it is similar to King Crimson from Jojo, the result is not changed but the path towards it no longer exists.

As it currently is though the deletion of the rider from time as their power has been taken by someone else in case of Zi-O himself, or replaced in case of the Another Rider kaijin.

Either case seems to completely delete anything that had to do with those riders, including their main villains, though this could always end like Decade did with the villains from other versions of a world joining up in a similar manner.

Hell, with the riders of their timeline removed maybe the villains of these deleted timelines get picked up by Oma-Zi-O.

Because there is going to be a limit to Another Rider kaijins, and I do not think another riders work well enough to be done in a similar method to EX-Aid where it made sense for them to show back up, and it actually worked with the story. after all in order to make them a time jacker has to have a rider available that their kaijin can replace, but currently Zi-O has taken that power for his own, so they have nothing to replace with their kaijin.

I'm still very iffy on the way this series is written.

At the least I can appreciate Decade's use of the previous Rider world's monsters and Rider action.

This one feels..I dunno, instead of a celebration of another decade of Riders, its more concerned with trying to wipe out history.

Of course maybe this is all a build up to a grand reveal that Oma Zi-O is not Sougo, and those statues are the actual Riders who needs to be freed. That would be a nice twist to see Sougo laying the seeds to making that happen without knowing.

It would actually be kinda cool if he ends up actually being the main villain for the show, and the real hero another character.

Though I do not think that will happen.

That said we do have precedent with main riders not being the final hero for their season so who knows.

When Sougo got the Build & Cross-Z watches, Geiz said Build's HISTORY dissapeared, which means not only Sento as a Rider was erased, but everything related to his story. We can assume that in the current timeline, the Pandora Box never came to earth and is still on mars, Kuroto never discovered Bugster virus, etc

I doubt Sougo will be the final villain, but I totally expect him to nearly turn evil at some point and Geiz will fight him

Probably when he gets his last upgrade.

Zi-O has a Zi-O Mech.

This pleases me,... And makes me want the toy

I can't seriously see myself skipping a Kamen Rider series - I watched all of Ghost, and I thought most of that show was terrible - but Zi-O is tempting me. The most basic plot conceits make no sense. How the Another Riders replace the Rider of a time period has, as far as I can tell, nothing to do with time travel. "Here, I'm going to grant you the power of Ex-Aid, which I took from... oh, wait, I didn't take it from anywhere. Nevertheless, Emu can't be Ex-Aid because reasons. Also, there are terrible consequences if you don't do as I ask. Oh, wait. There aren't."

Sougo wanting to be a king is just stupid. He does not live in a context in which becoming a king is something that people do; this is a character trait that belongs on a kindergartner. He doesn't seem to have a discernible motivation beyond that. I can't tell whether the actor is terrible since he's been given so little to work with.

Although it was really nice to see Emu and Hiiro again, they didn't have much to do. Why even have prior Riders appear just to be ineffectual before losing their Rider powers?

So far, Zi-O as a show hasn't taken advantage of the paradoxes they're theoretically creating. If the doctors of the CR aren't around to stop the bugster virus, the city should be overrun by virus-mutated monsters. Most previous Riders stopped some sort of catastrophe or another; if time has been rewritten so main Riders never were, Japan should be monster-infested toast. Kamen Rider Zi-O isn't going back and taking the place of the Riders whose powers he's carrying around.

I'm numb to prior-Rider nostalgia anyway due to various Taisens and the now-annual "new form based on last year's Rider" thing. Decade at least let us get away with enjoying previous Riders' moves and powers. Zi-O has abstracted the power of Kamen Rider Build down to "he's got a drill arm," and Ex-Aid is just hammer-hands. Rather than prompting me to feel nostalgic, it's prompting me to remember how much better the fourth episodes of both Ex-Aid and Build were.

I'm enjoying the .5 episodes a lot, and it's telling that they specifically seem to lampoon the flaws of any given episode's plot.

I really, really want this show to get better. I just don't know how it's going to do so. Sougo needs a discernible personality and motivation. Geiz needs to actually act on his desire to defeat Oma Zi-O instead of making snarky comments; so far, he's neither killing Sougo nor taking a particular interest in trying to keep him alive while ensuring he never becomes Oma Zi-O. The time-travel stuff needs to start having defined, internally-consistent rules.

Ex-Aid and Build were so good; I'm gobsmacked that we could sink so low so fast. The first four episodes of Ninninger were better than this. All I can think is that the toy line has finally risen up and strangled the show's story to death. (It's been threatening to do this for years, but we keep somehow getting shows that are good anyway. Well, except Ghost.)

I imagine I'm asking too much. I'd like to believe a zillion Japanese kids are also dumbfounded by how bad the show is, since a decline in both viewership and toy sales is probably the only reason this show would course-correct. I just watched this today, and I'm honestly offended by how awful the whole thing is.

Two things, 1: Most Kamen Rider shows these days take a while to get interesting. 2: Toys have actually done so well Bandai ended up needing to make more

I am didn't have high expectations to Zi-O series. I also think Zi-O series should be less darker than Build......

I think we're supposed to assume that everything relating to the Rider is erased and nothing led to their existence. Hence why secondaries forget everything even though there's only Another Rider versions of main Riders (e.g. Banjou).

In my opinion the show isn't flying in the face of logic as much as it's simply failing to explain things it could easily explain, but I think it still will be a fun ride, if only for the returning actors and hopefully the main cast's characterization.
But they dropped the ball when they didn't bother to give a common reason for the Riders - why they exist and why the main Riders are the "Main Riders". Some kind of "cosmic plan/destiny" plot is really the only explanation for totally unrelated armored heroes who transform with belts appearing annually and combatting unrelated races of monsters, as well as the main Riders being uniquely important (they could explain that the Main Riders are the most important ones because they're the most heroic, or the most central to the conflict, or something like that).
As it is they're entirely ignoring the pressure on the suspension of disbelief and it's really disappointing when there's so much potential for an interesting plot.

I would like to take this moment to mention that only a little over 3 minutes into the first episode someone immediately points out how odd that is as a motivation.

https://i.imgur.com/VGfrUCx.jpg

So at the very least the show is aware of this problem. Unfortunately it can't change how uninteresting Sougo is right now, but like I said in the thread for episode 3, there's a good chance he's written the way he is for a reason.

Bingo:

https://i.imgur.com/jhw8BLX.jpg

Admittedly there are few storytelling concepts more headache-inducing than time travel, but I think the important thing to note here is that it's not like Skynet is sending Terminators back to assassinate Emu. If they were this episode would've met the quota for wanton cruelty to Emu.

What's happening is that the events that lead to them becoming Riders are gone, and where does every Kamen Rider get their powers? From the same source as the bad guys. Ex-Aid exists because there's a Bugster virus to be vaccinated against. Build only exists if Pandora's Box comes down from Mars with Evolt in tow. If the Riders are gone, so are the monsters that result in their creation. Therefore, no Riders = no catastrophes.

Or at least that's my theory? For all I know the show's already contradicted this idea and I haven't noticed. I have a pretty high tolerance for time travel nonsense given how inherently unrealistic the concept is.

Unfortunately, not all works of fiction can live up to the genius of Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. :p