No Vampires Remain in Romania: Why Kamen Rider Kiva is bad, a discussion.
 

When we say so and so soiled the bed to describe something as faltering in quality, never has such been truer when describing 2008's Kamen Rider Kiva. In truth, this one should have an easy sell for me, a Kamen Rider show about vampires—and yet at every opportunity, the show seems to waste its positional, frittering it away on storylines that dissolve into repetition and nonsense.

The show begins with a novel enough premise, telling two stories, the first set in 2008, the year in which the show was released, where we are introduced to shut-in violin prodigy, Kurenai Wataru, an orphan who has inherited the great ancestral powers of Kiva, a relic of the vampiric Fangire race. Being the child of a human father and a Fangire mother, Wataru is introduced to us as damaged goods, having reached adolescence with no real understanding of his parents, and being cared for mostly by a 15-year-old neighbour, Shizuka, played by Koike Rina, who also appeared as Sailor Luna in Kobayashi Yasuko's Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon live-action adaptation. As part of his duties as Kiva, Wataru has taken it upon himself to protect the innocent against marauding Fangire, a course of action that soon introduces him to the members of the Subarashiki Aozora no Kai, an organisation of bounty hunters and Fangire specialists who each have their own tangled history with what the Kiva armour represents.

The show's second story is set in 1986, in which violin virtuoso and Wataru's father, Kurenai Otoya attempts to woo Aozora agent, Aso Yuri, much to the chagrin of actual werewolf, Jiro, and his companions, Ramon, styled after the Creature from the Black Lagoon, and Riki, styled after Frankenstein's monster, each of whom are the last survivors of their races, and have a particular ax to grind with the Fangire for the wholesale genocide of their races. Yuri also is consumed with guilt over her own mother's death during the development of the IXA system—a suit of armour that is passed around between various members during the show ala the suits in Inoue's comparative work, 555, yet still essentially functions as the "second Rider"—whilst Megumi, her daughter in 2008, has equal feelings of guilt and loss regarding her death. Keep this last one in mind as we're going to be coming back to it.

In both segments, the characters, for the most part, are initially interesting and engaging, with the 1986 narrative being the more well-rounded of the two. If there are criticisms to make of characterisation, then I would say that, to begin with, Otoya is flighty and unlikeable, whilst Wataru is a wet blanket who, when not in armour, mopes around letting a 15-year-old girl manage his affairs. Early on we are introduced to the differences in father and son, however, throughout the story, it is Otoya that changes, that grows, and becomes complex, whilst Wataru is the same indecisive, bashful introvert throughout, only taking charge of the situation when pretending to have gone evil so as to protect his step-brother. We'll come back to that too.

Of note in these earlier arcs are the characters of Yuri and Megumi, who are wonderful portrayed by Takahashi Yu and Yanagisawa Nana respectively. It's rare for a Kamen Rider to ruminate so heavily on the relationship between mothers and daughters, and I really appreciated the time that went into exploring the characters and feelings of both these women, and the way in which they contrasted with one another. During the episodes in which we learnt that Yuri's mother was the originator of the IXA armour and that she had died during an encounter with the Fangire, I thought a lot about Episode #13 of Evangelion and the story told there. One of the driving motivations for Megumi during her early story is the need to prove herself good enough to use the IXA armour that meant so much to her mother and that was developed by her grandmother, only to have the opportunity snatched away from her, as her employer selects erratic bounty hunter, Nago Keisuke to use it. Nago, we are told, has a particular grudge against Kiva that is rooted in events from 22 years ago, but once he befriends Wataru, he soon develops a sense of camaraderie with the young man, and despite briefly travelling into the past and meeting not only Otoya and Yuri but also Wataru's mother—although he is unaware at first—we never learn what it was that turned him against Kiva all those years ago, nor do we even see a glimpse of the boy he was in 1986. This is the beginning of several plot-points that Inoue fails to answer throughout the course of the series

For all this rich detail in the opening episodes, it is sadly not long before Kiva loses its way. Early on, the 1986 segments of the story stop feeling like 1986. In the first few episodes there was a lot of consideration taken in regards to wardrobe and the mention of pop culture—my particular favourite moment being a discussion of Yamamoto Susan Kumiko, a popular member of '80s idol group, Onyanko Club—but very soon, after maybe ten episodes or so, 1986 begins to feel a lot like 2008. At its best, the show fosters a sense of connexion between the two eras in which it is set, and yet as the series goes on, it begins to feel more and more like Inoue has no real idea how to tie this two narratives together in a way that does not feel contrived.

A common gimmick in the early episodes is for a Fangire to attack in 1986 and escape being destroyed, and to then resurface later, only to be confronted by Wataru as Kiva. This becomes incredibly tense when, in 2008, Megumi identifies the monster-of-the-week as Rook, a member of the Fangire court's ruling Checkmate Four, a knock-off version of the Lucky Clover from 555, and also the person responsible for the death of her mother. This new information makes everything that happens within the 1986 narrative seem all the more tense, until, eventually, it peters out. Rook threatens the security of the characters for only a moment until we realise that there is no danger because Yuri cannot die as Megumi has not been born, and so he keeps being defeated and coming back, whilst, seemingly worried that we are not taking him seriously, Megumi keeps recalling flashbacks of her mother lifting her up from her pram in what is inferred to be mere moments before her death.

In the end, however, the series never bothers to address Yuri's death. That's right. The whole series wraps up without ever showing the moment in which Yuri faces Rook once more and dies protecting her daughter. It is a massive insult to both the characters and the viewer, and it is to the detriment of the entire series that the narrative does not do these characters justice. Instead, we reach the midway point, and we are introduced to Wararu's childhood friend, Taiga, who also turns out to be his half-brother, who also turns out to the new Fangire King, and their shared loved interest, a waitress named Mio, who finds out she has been selected to be the new Fangire Queene.

The love triangle between Taiga, Wataru, and Mio is tedious. I am also what you might consider an introvert, and I don't know if you're ever witnessed two introverts trying to begin a relationship, but it does not make for good television; the plot bounces back and forth between the two of them misunderstanding one another and failing to get their act together, and Taiga—who is a character no one asked for in the series—brooding over the differences between Fangire and humans, and plotting a war that brings him into sharp contrast with Wataru, until, in the midst of a confrontation between the two half-brothers, Mio dies. The rest of the series is spent in tit-for-tat wrist slapping between these two characters, Wataru in his Kiva armour, and Taiga in his, ah, Sagark armour. I had to look that last one up, and I still don't know what the connexion is. Kiva is obviously themed upon a vampire bat, and if I put aside my dislike of the way in which the Heisei era plays fast and loose with the rule of basing the central Rider on an insect theme, then I feel that at least Kiva is relevant to the context of this show; it's about vampires, right? A bat-themed Rider makes sense. But, Sagark? I think he's a UFO? Maybe? Instead of a little bat that talks to him and becomes his henshin device, Sagark has, like, a flying saucer that gibbers nonsense like a R2-D2 toy I had as a child when the batteries needed replacing.

Like much of Inoue's work, the show falters when it comes to introducing a third Rider, almost as if he has not made provisions for the appearance of such in the story, despite the fact that he must know that he would be asked to include one, as this has been the pattern with the toys made for such a show for a very long time. In 555, the use of the Delta armour never felt as if it was as well thought out as other inclusions in the show, here also, Inoue doesn't really know what to do, and so we end up with a Fangire King who never shows his true form, but keeps jabbing a long stick into a UFO to transform into a sort of white and blue version of the Kiva armour.

What the last half of the show does give us, however, is Maya, my favourite character by a mile. By now, I suspect you are rolling your eyes, because of course, with my well-documented love of Yodonna in Kiramager, a character like Maya would be my favourite. Portrayed by Kagami Saki, Maya is Wataru's mother, and the love triangle we see develop between her, an Otoya haunted by her presence, and a heartbroken Yuri, is everything that the relationship between Taiga, Wataru, and Mio isn't, almost as if Inoue poured all of his complex and tender feelings into the depiction of the Fangire Queene's fall from grace and her romance with Otoya, and had nothing left when it came to writing the 2008 relationships.

The cardinal role, as it turns out, is that Fangires must not mate with humans, and the role of the Queene is that of executioner when any such Fangire transgresses this law; seeing Maya wrestle with her feelings, seeing her genuine love for Otoya expressed, seeing Yuri's hurt as she discovers the betrayal is beautiful, and wonderful, and a reminder that given enough time even a monkey will produce Shakespeare. I wish so much that someone had forced Inoue to do a second pass on these scripts, that the focus on this relationship had been heightened, and the other material excised, but I suspect I am at odds with many in charge at Toei during its production in regards to this issue, as I can imagine that what was being requested was the opposite of what I am asking for here.

Despite how much I might care for this character, however, she is not immune from Inoue's poor lack of plotting. Later in the series, she is revealed to be alive still in 2008, living in a forest, wearing an eyepatch. It is never explained why she has an eyepatch as nothing in the 1986 demonstrates her losing her eye, and even in later flashbacks, where she abandons Wataru and tells him he has to live alone in his father's old house, she is in possession of both eyes. Also, in 2008 and 1986, she is played by the same actress, having not aged at all, which, fine, she's the vampire queene, but it becomes increasingly surreal as, despite having been absent for 22 years, people keep turning up at her cave, mostly Wataru and Taiga, to wail at her and scream "Mother!" over and over again at an actress their own age.

Drawing to an end, the show becomes more and more about Taiga and Wataru's spat. Over and over again, they are interrupted by marauding Fangire, and they join forces to kill them, then resume hitting each other until, at the very last, they become friends again. I feel that Kiva needs a big chart to help viewers keep track of the familial relationships, but their feud is ended by the intercession of Shima, the head of the Aozora organisation. Take a deep breath, because this is how we get to that revelation: Shima is the head of Aozora in 1986 and 2008 and he hates all Fangire because Maya asked him to raise Taiga so she could go and raise Wataru and then sit in a cave, but Taiga became an adolescent and lashed out at Shima because he hated authority, and now he hates all humans, and Shima was then turned into a Fangire which made him hate himself, and he challenged Taiga, and Taiga killed him, only he didn't, he "cured" him of being a Fangire, which implies that they are not actual a race but a condition of humanity, but it doesn't matter because everyone thinks he is dead until he suddenly shows up with a sniper rifle and berates everyone for being rubbish at their jobs. And now, exhale.

Over and over again, what Kiva represents is a series of wasted opportunities. The characters are so well thought out in their initial appearances, and you would have thought that the simple idea of an organisation that fights vampires would be hard to get wrong, but, well, Inoue found a way. Endlessly, Kiva labours the point and wastes time developing subplots that go nowhere, all at the expense of major points of the narrative that remain unresolved long after the series concludes. The series has some wonderful characters and a wonderful cast, but it never fails to utilise them in a way that provides any sense of closure. Also, whoever decided to dress up a young boy in a sailor suit and ask him to portray a 127-year-old merman posing as a human was a genius, and I would like to shake their hand.

The film, King of the Castle in the Demon World, which appeared mid-way through the series and broke from continuity as was the tradition of most tokusatsu films at the time, added to its large cast with cameos from popular gravure idol and actress, Anzu Sayuri, and, ah, Gal Sone, who was famous for winning eating contests and being a member of the tsunku produced fever dream that was the short-lived idol unit, Gyaruru. I fell asleep during this film, which was just as well as I was spared the disappointment until later of discovering that the film's antagonist was not "Kamen Rider Baphomet" as I had hoped from the horned visage on the cover, but just some dude.

It should have been easy to make a show like Kiva work. Apparently, it wasn't.

Man, I feel like the guy who waits at the front of the line long before tickets are on sale when it comes to these threads.

Personally, I’m someone who considers Kiva my favourite series. Mostly because the parts it doesn’t focus on ar e parts I don’t feel need that much focus. Plus, compared to most shows, it doesn’t feel particularly like it’s selling toys constantly. The appearance of new power ups feels semi-realistic (as much as it can in a show about stained glass vampires) and I feel Wataru and Otonaru actually do have something of a clearly visible arc with a marked end, compared to most toku characters, where some development seems barely visible.

And also, I watched Den-O afterwards and found it significantly weaker. Repetitive music, power ups feeling tacked on and unnecessary, character traits being glossed over… basically everything Kiva made a game effort with (in my eyes)

... wait, huh?

The Arms Monsters don't really exist for any other reason than to be alternate forms for Kiva (aside from Jiro unfortunately being a character in the 86 portion), multiple things like the Shodooran and the smaller castle fangire thing and Ixa's car exist purely to sell toys and just leave a second later with no explanation, and Tatsulot is one of the most blatant examples of Inoue's not caring about powerups or explaining them that it gives Kaixa throwing the Accel Timer a run for its money.

I won't act like there aren't good elements in how it handles toys -- their being allowed to use Ixa Save in the way they did in the 86 portion is pretty great, and Saga and Dark Kiva aren't too egregious. But compared to its contemporaries, pretty much everything around it (Kabuto, Den-O, Decade and W) handled toys in a much better consistent way with the only comparable standouts being the Zect Mizer and W's gadget animal things.



I don't really want to comment much on this thread because Kiva is the only toku show I actively hate, but I do understand what people see in it and I don't want to ruin anyone's fun by constantly ragging on it outwith the context of a review. But just from an objective standpoint this comment makes me scratch my head.

I should apologise for being so mean to your favourite show in that case. When I liked it, I really liked it, especially the 1986 side of the story and the arc between Otoya and Maya, but when I disliked it, I really disliked it—I disliked it to the point of frothing at the television whilst screaming, "It's great that DCDcame out after this, right, so you could HAVE A DO OVER." *ahem*

Agreed though, I do think the pacing of the toys/power ups was pretty good, and I found IXA a really interesting suit/design. I wasn't so much a fan of Sagark and the Dark Kiva kit-bash, but, I understand why they're in the show.

I did really want to like it, for what's it worth. I just felt disappointed by its lack of closure.

A thread for ragging on Kiva? I love ragging on Kiva!

I'll echo most of your complaints, dreamcastegirl. Kiva is a show that has some good ideas on paper that it rarely, if ever effectively realized in action. My two biggest issues with the show are as follows:

Wataru is just plain awful. People rag on Ryotaro all the time for being a wimp, but I think he's by far the more heroic protagonist. Wataru is aggravatingly passive. He almost never takes initiative, only leaps into action when the violin on the wall tells him to, and then spends the rest of his time moping, bathing, and moping while bathing. The only time he really seems to be working on his own impetus is late in the series when he decides to erase himself from time because his girlfriend died. I sometimes think of him as being kind of like Shouichi, in that both of them only go off into battle when their Kamen Rider sense starts tingling, but Shouichi has a more complex relationship with his abilities and actually does stuff when he's not in the suit. I am also an introvert, so I can relate on the surface to Wataru's passive nature. I am also not the main hero of an action tokusatsu because I am not temperamentally suited for it, which is Wataru's big mistake.

The other thing that kills the show for me is that it seems to be deathly allergic to the concept of explanation. There is so much stuff that happens on this show for no apparent reason. Some of these are merch related - there's a baby Castle Doran because there's a toy of it, I will grant you that much. There is so much in the plot that never gets a reasonable explanation, though. Yuri and Maya, definitely massive examples of that. Where the hell did Tatsulot come from? Why is he living inside the walls of Castle Doran? Why did he suddenly break out when Wataru had a temper tantrum? None of this is ever covered. Even smaller plots, like why is Wataru channeling Otoya for an episode - never explained. It's really frustrating to watch the show because there are so many times when it just throws shit at you and expects you to roll with it like it all makes sense.

(Ironically, that's part of why I liked the Kiva arc of Zi-O. The whole Kamen Rider Ginga thing was a perfect homage to Kiva being unexplained gibberish. Also, manhole cover serial killer is my favorite original character on the entire show. That woman knows what her bit is and she is 100% committed to it.)

Finally, let me add one more thing because you glossed over him in your post and that's not fair to the character. Kengo is absolutely fucking terrible, not just once but in two separate, equally awful flavors.

This is exactly it, couldn't have said it better! I mean regardless of whether or not you like Takeru Sato it would at least be something if people admitted Ryotaro is not a great protagonist! At least Wataru I did kind of relate to and like a bit more when I was a teenager whereas Ryotaro was just pathetic with that big deal the first episode made about his ''bad luck'', letting random dudes beat him up in some episodes...I just think if you're going to have a go at Kiva at least don't then in comparison overrate Den-O,Decade and W(which all 3 went in the wrong direction to at least some degree for me!) when obviously usually if someone goes on and on about something, it's not all that.

This! This is exactly what I should have called this thread!

Gosh, I didn't even know where to start with him! I agree with everything you said. Like at first, I was, like, it's okay, he's just a bit character, whatever, they'e in a band, but then he came back as, like, a military wunderkind, and had Nago crying in his wake every scene, and I was bewildered, I just absolutely failed to understand what was happening, and why it was happening.

*sobs and hits the table* I just wanted to watch a show about grasshopper-men hitting vampires, you know?

Only stuff I liked about Kiva:
The final battle in the last episode
IXA-cise, that blue 753(Nago-san) t-shirt
All the ending themes(Supernova especially)
Them suits
Kido and Shima's neverending battle of "who has the lowest body fat"
When Otoya supposedly possessed Wataru in that one episode

... man. I knew this day would come.

Time for me to defend the only Tokusatsu show in existence I despise!

I definitely have my grievances with Wataru -- I'd go as far as to label him my least favourite Rider protagonist, in fact. But I think he is the greatest positive the show has to offer (which I guess shows you exactly how low my opinion of Kiva is). He certainly could have stood to have had a more fluid progression, absolutely; where he slowly starts to take charge in a clearer way than it all getting stuffed at the end, but looking at him as a static character he is fairly interesting and cute in his own way. Despite having Ryotarou just last season he still stands out as having a unique, distinct personality amongst main riders and his shtick of not leaving the house can be fun! I definitely found myself relating to him a little as I was somewhat like him when I was younger, and frankly it's just great to have someone nice on the cast. This is hardly a deep dive on his psych, here -- I just think he's kinda neat, especially when contrasted with Kiva's fighting style!


Good!

...

Okay, okay, that's a little much; it's not great. A lot of things like Tatsulot I would have appreciated slightly more of a reaction to from the characters than Kivat going "you're hanging out with us in the bath now? ugh, you're so annoying and young", and he's certainly not a character that really meant something to anything. Again, he's very Accel Timer. But other stuff I'm actually fine with! I like a show that doesn't care too much for explaining things and just letting them play out as an Experience, throwing logic to the wall to be about the emotions and characterisation that flow forth. I mean, I am one of those people that likes Zi-O, you know? The only times it matters to me is when, well, emotions and characterisation don't result. Man, Tatsulot kinda sucks. Man, most of these characters got nothing. Man... it's hard to say nice things about Kiva for long.


Mostly agree with this, but with the addition: Kengo when he was introduced was the brightest spot in the season for me. I'm kinda drawn to these types of goofy, optimistic characters admittedly -- you show me a kid in a rock band who's supposed to be tough but is actually wide-eyed and dorky and says things like "Kiva rocks!" and I'm falling in love, dunno what to tell you! It's kinda something that helped keep me going with this show - when Kengo came into the scene he just instantly completed a cute little group with Wataru and the girl he always hangs out with (I don't know which one they're all interchangeable and terrible because Inoue doesn't know how to write women) to form a nice group dynamic that kept me coming back. Kengo just felt like he completed Wataru and was guiding him on through his characterisation! Someone who genuinely liked him for who he was, who admired him even, who didn't truly judge him for his personality; and was outgoing and loud enough to make it look like Wataru might just come out of his shell. It was great!

...

And then, they... yeah, they done that with him? I wouldn't so opposed to this shift in characterisation, but, how do I put it... it felt like Inoue was speedrunning Takumi and Kiba from 555 but without what truly made them special and interesting. Like if he just wanted to boast he could do this star-crossed lovers thing again where a whole bunch of drama gets in the way and there's a big fall in their relationship that leads to all sorts of stuff. But it just ends up being really really annoying! Nothing positive results from it in the slightest and Wataru hasn't grown enough by the time it happens for any real impact to be felt from his losing his best friend other than "well, he lost his best friend, that fucking sucks". Inoue, for all the shit I give him, is a man that is very good at nailing drama that threads the needle between frustrating and interesting so it's wild to me that he dropped the ball so hard here.



Though I guess it's weird for me talking about Kiva because my frustrations with it tend to be the opposite of why everyone else hates it? I like Wataru, I like things being unexplained, I don't care too much for how well the plot is structured as long as the emotions and characterisation is there. How did Fish put it? "I don't give a sh*t about the Orphnoch plot"? I'm probably placebo effecting a swear in there to replicate the very strong emotion that came across in his 555 rewatch wrap-up post but that's how it is with me. All of which is to say, uh, I've seen recently that some fans have made a supercut of the Otoya 1986 sections. Made because they love Kiva but feel like 1986 is the best part of the show and that the 2008 sections are the parts that hold it back. I bring this up because I feel the opposite. I'm not going to fully go into why because it goes places I really don't want to discuss, but the 1986 portions of Kiva are the most dreadful, draining, joyless experience I have ever, ever had with Kamen Rider, with Tokusatsu as a whole, with just about any piece of media. I recognise of course that the show literally wouldn't work, wouldn't function without having both halves of the one whole here; each story is important to and informs aspects of the other. But if the Otoya sections of Kiva didn't exist? If it was just Wataru in 2008? I wouldn't go as far as to say I'd like it, but it would maybe be on the level of something like 555 or Ex-Aid to me; something I don't feel very strongly about don't fully regret watching. This is where I'm coming from -- I'm someone who actually doesn't mind a lot of Kiva's modern day stories but cannot stand a single thing about the 80s sections. So I am starting to wonder if this separates me from other people here who don't like Kiva.

One thing I will say about it on a structural level, though? I said it's important that both stories exist to inform and parallel the other, right? ... well, it's a shame then that Kiva kinda sucks at doing that. I can point to one example I like -- the introduction of Rook, where in the modern day sections he's this amnesiac big dumb puppy who Wataru and co are trying to help; but in the 80s section is a devastating monster of mass destruction. It's a fantastic parallel that raises the tension: you know there's going to be a point in the modern day where things snap and everything goes wrong and you're on the edge of your seat terrified for when it's going to happen. That's fantastic! That's great storytelling! I can't recall a single other time in Kiva where this gimmick was used even remotely as effectively! Other episodes have each story parallel each other, sure; but never in a truly interesting way where it actually feels like they're important to each other and aren't just telling two separate narratives that happen to be in the same 25-minute block. Otoya's section isn't just aggravating in its own right, it most of the time feels pointless and a waste of time when he's just doing his own thing while Wataru meanders about his own plot aimlessly alluding to his father. It's a frustrating set of circumstances and one that made Kiva so so hard to watch.


I really hope that didn't get too heated, but I've stored up a lot of these feelings on Kiva for a while. Seeing this thread come into existence, and then see a lot of criticisms be different from my own... it flared something up in me, what can I say! It's at least interesting to compare to the Ryuki thread when I actually agree this time on disliking the show (don't get used to that -- the only other Toku things I truly dislike are Gaim, Drive and the latter thirds of Hibiki and Zero-One). Between these two threads I guess I'm setting myself up to reply to any Rider criticism topic you make!

Personally I find that the first and last acts of Kiva are pretty solid, but the middle act is a rough sit. In other words, sort of the usual when it comes to Inoue's' shows and me(only in different order).

Super deep insight, I know.

Oh, please don't apologise! I love reading your posts because they're always so detailed and thoughtful, so even when I feel as if we're not on the same page about something—like with the '80s sections of this show—I really appreciate you taking the time to articulate your thoughts and discuss the matter! This is why I'm here... well, this, and the fact that my cat just doesn't respond when I talk to her about these shows, so I'm glad to finally meet people who will talk to me, lol. It's almost like I'm a violin making boy with a bad haircut waiting to discover the meaning of friendship. :p

I absolutely agree with you about the way in which the two halves of the stories inform one another. I am one of those people who could broadly live without the 2008 segments, but I know that deep down this is not what I want, because the relation and reaction between the halves of the tales are what kept me watching it even when I doubted myself—if anything, I wanted more interaction between these two stories.

I know I'm always super incendiary when I post these long form re-watch posts, and I think it would probably have been easier if I had maintained my old toku blog back in the day to dump all these on, but I really cherish getting to talk with you about this stuff, so thank you for being so patient with me even though I'm relatively new-ish on the forums (this time around). As with Ryuki, re-watching this makes me want to watch the DCD and Zi-o arcs again, because I feel I might get a bit more out of them this time.

But fret not! Next on my re-watch list is a Showa show, and you know I'm going to give my favourite era a free pass, so imagine me from hereon in as Misato from Evangelion with a beer in my hands, crowing about how this is the "good stuff."

Unfortunately... unless it's Amazon or Black, I'll have nothing to say! I really haven't dipped into any other Showa season than those and it's a dishonour upon my name. It's the one era of this franchise's shows I haven't truly dug into and I seriously need to!

I'm signing you up for Showa Marathon Summer Camp as we speak. :p

Would it at least console you to know that I'm currently watching Ultra Q and after which I intend to simultaneously watch the original Ultraman and Goranger? :p

I have nothing substantial to add other than the fact that Nago was my favaorite character in the show. And he's my 2nd favoarite Secondary Rider as a whole. (Maybe bumping him down to 3rd if were including Ichijou)

You are just the best, you know that?

(Also, my exact words were "I was never watching Faiz because I cared if the Orphenochs would be defeated", if that matters at all.)

I'm not passionate enough about Kiva to really contribute here, but I have a huge soft spot for it for a lot of different reasons. (I'll probably be repeating all this to Die in a few months, by the way.)

Like, just to give you all an idea of weirdly personal they get, one of my fondest memories of it is actually just getting cold feet when going to download it, both because of its reputation, and because it was one of the last two Heisei shows I had yet to watch at the time (during Gaim), and instead going to watch the entirety of its Super Hero Time contemporary Engine Sentai Go-Onger on a total whim instead. I do not regret that decision one bit!

But it's not really because I ended up disliking Kiva or anything; Go-Onger is just awesome. Kiva is... it's what I consider the objective worst Heisei Rider show because of all the undeniably weird, aggravating quirks of its writing. I'm not sure how much it'd hold up if I went back to it, but I had a ton of fun with it, all the same.

It's my favorite Rider show to make affectionate jabs at, but the emphasis there is on affectionate. There were plenty of genuinely good episodes in there, and I especially remember it having some of the funniest comedy bits I'd ever seen in Rider. Another one of those fondest memories, for example, that I can still picture vividly, is Wataru getting dragged around by Megumi in the first episode, refusing to say a word, only feeling the need to speak up to let out a gentle chigaimasu~ when she jokingly suggests he must just be so stunned by her beauty that he's speechless. Like, it's kind of a stock gag on Megumi's end, I know, but the execution of the gag, the timing, just how weird Wataru is, covering his mouth and everything, and how that's his first ever word to her, it was a riot. And there were so many bits like that throughout the show. Not for nothing is 753 one of the most memorable things to come out of it.

Kiva is a series where I think you either need to be very into what it's doing from the outset to really have it click with you (I really respect people who unironically say Kiva is their #1 Rider show), or you can just have a really high tolerance for nonsense (yo!), and roll with everything it throws at you. It's not a show I'm in any rush to defend, per se, but I'll always try and stick up for it where I can. And Wataru is a very sweet boy; leave him alone! :D

I don't always mind when a show doesn't answer every question, but there's a version of it that respects the audience to figure things out on their own and a lazy version that just doesn't feel like putting in the effort to do any world building. Kiva is generally the latter.

It did its own monster verse or vampire story like twilight fan fiction. Looking at gimmick and aesthetic, you'll expect more dracula references, but inoue took it to his own inner child level.

I think Kiva is at least in my top 2-5 rider shows although admittedly Black and Kabuto are pretty hard to beat too, it's just always seemed to be a bit of a bandwagony thing to hate Kiva, when people used compare it to Twilight when I doubt the writers have even heard of it in Japan etc but at least the discussion on this forum is a bit more balanced and nuanced than I have seen in some terrible later 2000s/earlier 2010s year lol

Oh, Ultra Q is great! I'm a heretic, as I much prefer Q to the mainline Ultra franchise. It is one hundred per cent my type of thing. I want to rewatch this now too! And the mid-00s reboot with my Nao-chan in it.

I can't promise to leave Britn-ah, Wataru alone—as if to underline how horrible I am, I actually do prefer the little boy Wataru from DCD—but your post really made me clutch my chest, and go, "awwww!" Especially this bit here, this is so lovely, and it made me think of all the times I've got excited downloading one of those shows, and it really, really moved me to read this.

Shut up. I'm not crying, you're crying.

I mean hey, sometimes you just want The Twilight Zone but with some kaiju!

Hahaha, absolutely! (>_>)

Even as someone who generally enjoyed Kiva, I'm inclined to agree with most of the complaints. I prefer 1986 since it has Otoya, who is always entertaining, and Yuri, who I consider the true heroine due to my indifference to Megumi. However, 2008 is necessary since it has Kiva, the show's namesake, and I think Wataru is a decent protagonist.

His actor, Seto Koji, is one of the few who are also singers (Supernova FTW!) like Sato Kenta who sung the Turboranger and Zyuranger OPs and Miyauchi Hiroshi who sung the OP to his own show, Kamen Rider V3.

The 1986 plot sets up the events and the drama, all the intriguing stuff, while the 2008 plot is the climax that resolves it, often in the first half with a bad*ss finisher announced by "Wake Up!" until Takaiwa gets a new suit that isn't painful to wear. The format is okay. Looking forward to Reiwa Rider #12 in 2030/2031, so we can see how Masao resolves the Neo-Fangire problem!

Fun fact: In 2012, Treyarch would attempt a similar format with father and son protagonists in Call Of Duty Black Ops 2.

Regarding the love triangles, they're a part of Kiva but they're a part of every show written by Inoue. I prefer that he writes them rather than some guy like Sanjo who just tacks them on without much thought. All my favorite comedic and dramatic love triangles are written by Inoue, such as Jirou-Yuri-Otoya-Maya from Kiva, Kusaka-Mari-Kaido-Yuka-Keitarou-Kiba from Faiz and Gai-Kaori-Ryu-Rie from Jetman, where the characters are handled with care to make sure they don't act any differently from how they would usually. Inoue may falter on plot sometimes but I praise his ability to write consistent characters.

Jirou's behavior towards Yuri reminds me a lot of Kusaka's behavior to Mari, except Jirou is more assertive. I like Jirou's obsession with drinking only the best coffee. Just remind him never to drink at nascita. That's an unsatisfied customer Evolt won't be able to handle.

I actually like Saga, which is why it annoyed me that after Taiga becomes Dark Kiva, Saga disappears, with no explanation for where that cute little Sagarc even goes. Poor guy! I loathe to say anything bad about Faiz, my favorite season, but I cannot deny that Delta's debut was overhyped and Mihara is meh personified. The Tertiary Riders had potential that were never unlocked. I guess every writer has flaws, even Inoue.

The show appeals to goth culture, so Maya's eyepatch might just be a fashion statement. That's always been my headcanon anyway.

Seriously, what happened to her shoes though?

Manhole Kiva is one of my favorite things about Zi-O (next to "IWAE!", of course) due to how ridiculous and humorous it is and the memes that followed it of photoshopping manholes over circular objects. Letting Inoue write the Kiva arc was pure genius!

:thumb:

"You don't understand, Wataru. All the other girls in caves are wearing them."

Hahhaa, you're so right.

*sigh*

I can't think of this too much because then I get bummed out, as I really liked Maya as a character. I think she got quite a good deal in terms of characterisation/screen time compared to other characters in the series, so I can't complain too much, yet at the same time I wish there had been just a tiny bit more care and attention to detail when addressing her narrative.