Kamen Rider Zeztz Case #22- "REVENGE" Discussion
 

Baku questions his role in CODE as the Disaster Nightmare appears in the real world.

I genuinely thought everyone was going to be permanently asleep, but no, they woke up! To witness the living nightmare the world was about to become!

I love how Fujimi is like ALL IN on finally meeting other people from CODE...who also conveniently have their own entrance into Baku's base. Because there's no time to waste: AVOID THE NIGHTMARE SCENARIO!

(Also 5's shirt is...everything).

Baku will waste Nightmare Kaijin, but taking a human life? That might be a stretch too far for him, even if NOX has gone off the deep end. But that might be what's expected of a true agent, for the sake of the world.

So was there some kind of shared dream of the children in Baku/Kureha's generation? Something about Baku that made him tailor-made to be able to wield Zeztz? They haven't really dived that deep into what Zeztz even is, but apparently it is something unique that only Baku can use.

You know it's serious when Nem finally uses Baku's real name.

It's definitely not normal for a baby to dream of a desolate landscape with the crying moans of dead people...

Is that Baku's true Nightmare? The Zeztz Nightmare?

I notice the Lady didn't actually say she found CODE's base. I don't think she and NOX really have the same goals at this point.

Well, bad news...the Disaster Nightmare is unleashing a wide terrorist attack on the city. The good news is the electric dinosaur nightmares that everyone can see probably means people will start actually taking Fujimi seriously!

I appreciate how much out-of-suit action we got between NOX and 5. We even got their finishers out-of-suit!

Kureha did her level best but she was facing off against a Nightmare that is literally every natural disaster at once, she didn't stand a chance. But she still risked her life to protect a fellow agent, even at the cost of her life. And 5, for his part, cared about his fellow agent.

It's still surreal for me that NOX has a real gun that he uses alongside his "toy" gun.

Dang, Nasuka having a complete breakdown at Kureha's death. Baku too, from his doubts about CODE preventing him from collaborating and not being there to save them...feeling responsibility for their death...and that it was all because he was sympathetic to Odakka.

NOX can talk about bad dreams, nightmares, the evil of CODE all he wants...but Baku has finally embraced his Nightmare. He's now embraced inflicting a Bad Dream on someone he feels deserves. He's embraced nothing but his rage and anger. And in doing so has transformed his Driver and unlocked something to PULVERIZE his enemies. Zeztz Catastrom.

Also NOX really did not see this coming...but the Lady seems amused?

Zeztz Catastrom isn't fast or efficient, but it makes up for it in being able to no-sell everything Nox throws at him and having enough strength that he doesn't even need to connect with Nox to knock him back. "I'll break you."

Next week: Baku embracing being 7? Nasuka raging out at 3? Zeztz Catastrom vs the Disaster Nightmare? Lady and Minami? Wow.

I think this is an episode of ZEZTZ I wouldn't have cared for if I still thought about ZEZTZ the way I did for most of last year, but I guess I really have adjusted to this show's whole rhythm, because I kinda loved this one?

And you know, it's difficult to properly quantify that, in terms that would be understood by anyone who's in that position I was. This is another episode where a lot of things happen -- concepts are introduced, concepts are moved forward, but almost none of those concepts are resolved. There's a fundamental ZEZTZ-ness to this episode in that way. The show will tell you a whole lot, but it puts most of the burden of making sense of it on the viewer. (For example, even though I still don't know what this all means, I'm happy the episode seemingly validates my assumption that a lot of the abstract stuff in the first episode will turn out to be more than random, given stuff like Baku's arm melting the same way as when the Gun Nightmare was taunting him.)

Why I think that honestly works great here, and why I've started to believe it maybe does work in general for this series, is that the confusion a viewer is liable to feel about the details is directly reflected in Baku's whole journey, and that does have the effect of making him easier to identify with. There's no obvious right path for him to follow that we can see, the same way he can't see it either. Instead, this episode piles on the pressure, forcing his hand and ultimately leaving him dealing with the consequences of his actions in a way that's probably better than continuing to do nothing at all... but it doesn't seem very good, either, does it? He once again faces down the fears deep in his subconscious mind to gain new power, but the thing that gets him there seems like a broken Baku retreating into his identity as a mere number, which would mean he's also avoiding those inconvenient truths again. Yet another contradiction.

So yeah, I can't exactly say how all these ideas will ultimately feed into the larger narrative yet (and I mean, this *is* technically only the first half of an episode block), but I really like all those ideas, and I really like the way it's all presented. Especially NOX's brutal executions with a realistic handgun, which seems like the kind of thing you'd have to really fight the censors about nowadays to even do indirectly like that! The show held off on doing more action in the real world for a long time, and I definitely think they made this episode feel appropriately huge in its stakes to go with that.

Wow, 4-parter. I'm digging this direction so far!

So, is this the first time we seen NOX with an actual gun?

I love this episode, but that definitely caught my attention. On top of that, he executed both Agents 5 (I believe anyways) and 6. But that was what caught my eye: Instead of using the large gun-sword combo, he chose to shoot them with an actual gun, and we the audience technically didn't actually see the shot. Just heard the noise and saw the outcome. I find that particularly interesting, but I may be overthinking that.

I have more thoughts, but they are a jumble mess right now.

We saw him with the real gun at the end of episode 15 after he wakes up and is found by Fujimi & Nasuka.

I'm very curious about what direction Nox's character arc is going in. Really invested in that, I also find it to be a breath of fresh air to have an openly antagonist Secondary Rider, I feel like it's been a while since we've had that (and I don't mean "oh, they but heads for an arc or two and then they're friends, or they're both good guys but they don't see eye to eye").

This could always change later of course, but for now 22 episodes in it's neat.

...You know, when I was watching Kamen Rider Geats, there was a moment where the show tried to do something dramatic, only miss the mark for me by such a large margin that I realized the experience was just never going to come together for me. This is that episode for me. Let's just say the killing of characters the viewer barely knows for drama (deaths I doubt will even stick) accidentally crossed the line into comedy for me, not to mention some of the other baffling elements like Baku recalling something from when he was a baby. Fujimi and Nasuka continue to be the saving grace of the show for me, good performances from them.

Honestly, I think I'm about done posting weekly, I've said my piece many times by now. I'll still be watching, but will probably only chime in if I have something new to say.

I really got the impression it was a set-up and NOX faked their deaths.

if Kureha is really for reals dead, what a waste. but i imagine its a fake out.

Appreciate that, because I completely forgot.

I don't think either actor for 5 and 6 got flowers, for what it's worth.

With secret agent type fiction, there is usually a double-agent. A person seeming to be a traitor ends up getting close enough to the main antagonist. But they also can end up losing themselves.

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm going off ADHD memory, but when he was deactivated by CODE, didn't NOX end up trapped in the dream realm?

Really shows how the difference between Baku and Seven is bigger than just aura and skills. When Seven received the mission to "eliminate the enemy", he accepted it. While he was willing to eliminate Nox as a last resort, he used logic to get around it by redefining enemy to mean Shadow Nightmare, making Nox a victim to be saved. Furthermore, when it seemed like he was trapped in the dream world, he didn't do nothing. He confronted his thunder nightmare and moved forward to confront Nox. Seven has his morals, but he doesn't dwell on them to no end, he keeps his head in the present.

Faiz had a memorable development where Takumi retired from fighting, as he couldn't handle the guilt of taking lives. And what brought him back to fighting was the revelation that innocent people die when he does nothing. The path of a Kamen Rider is lonely and unpleasant, but it is also necessary. Inaction is the worst sin of all, when you have the power to protect.

And that's what we're seeing with Baku here. The thing preventing him from truly becoming Seven isn't the fact that he can't speak fluent English, defuse bombs and flirt with girls, but rather his hesitation to act in an unpleasant scenario. Five even gave him the morally simple mission of eliminating the Demon King Nightmare, yet Baku couldn't even stomach being complicit in Nox's elimination. So, he does nothing and Six dies. He realizes too late that the world needs Seven, right now. "I am Seven. I am Seven. I am Seven.", he says, but he arrives to find Five dead as well, with Nox blaming CODE for putting them in front of his gun.

This is where "Seven" finally locks in and confronts his Catastrophe Gore Nightmare, whose name is so edgy that you know its power is going to be strong. "If this is the power of bad dreams, then I'm going to make your bad dream come true." is such a cold and awesome line. Sparing Nox had made everything worse, so he's not making that mistake this time.

Nasuka grieving for Kureha/Six while Fujimi comforts her was a strong emotional scene with a great performance by their actors. Fujimi calls out Baku for his failure as an agent and promptly learns the complication of CODE targeting his friend Odaka. It'll be interesting to see if he can accept this now that his friend is guilty of killing his friend's friend. Fujimi's like a specific type of viewer perspective for those who choose to have faith in Nox, defending him based on vague implications of good intent. However, I believe he has gone too far this time and I hope Fujimi will find the courage to admit that.

This arc is such a sudden escalation for the plot of Zeztz and I'm excited to see how it resolves!

How would you know? That's not exactly a testable hypothesis.

Shooting undisguised humans with a launcher would turn them in to red smudges, so the handgun is the PG-rated option.

Nox was trapped since Shadow Nightmare wouldn't let him wake up.

I think also that facing the full weight of how his actions indirectly lead to the death of real people, his own moral choices of prioritizing Nox/Odakka, and his Superhero Spy Fantasy kind of falling apart around him basically drove him to retreat into the only thing that could still keep him together: Being CODE 07.

So, two minor things about the subs this week I feel like griping about:

- As good as "I'll break you" sounds, if the English title for the next episode is translating kowasu as "destroy", I'm surprised they didn't go with that? It probably doesn't matter at all, but I have noticed Shout seems to be paying special attention to stay consistent with things the show translates for them, like how nakama was always rendered as "comrade(s)" in 18/19, or how kokoro is... *almost* always "mind"! Lady says "soul" here, but the whole point I'm making is about how certain words mean particular things to this show, and it's pretty obvious that even in Japanese, she's using it differently than usual. Actually, I guess this is less me complaining, and more me praising Shout for being on the ball about this stuff?

- That being said, NOX's reaction to seeing Catastrom is ~maybe~ supposed to be less of a "what is that?" and more just a "is that...?" Like, the tone of the delivery sounds more like a surprised recognition of some kind than confusion to me, and it's not like he's ever cared what costume ZEZTZ is wearing before. Of course, it's a NOX line, so even if I'm right about this, I might be waiting a while to find out. :lol

With this show, I don't think it's overthinking at all to pay close attention what specifically we do or do not see... but, in this specific case, we can see that Five clearly reacts to Six getting shot as if it at least looked like exactly what it sounded like. So even if there is something deeper there the show hasn't told us yet, I do think the choice to avoid showing it on-screen probably is simply an artistic choice that may or may not also have to been an effort to avoid angry phone calls from concerned parents.

For what it's worth, the whole point is that he doesn't actually remember it, per se? Obviously there's a certain amount of fantasy magic stuff going on with that plot point to justify it too, but those scenes in Baku's head were actually the most exciting thing in the episode for me. I think with the show's focus on people's subconscious minds, introducing the idea of something traumatic leaving a powerful impression at a young age despite not really leaving a memory sounds like a good way to explore something that does connect to reality in a thematically compelling way, despite also involving some kind of literal scary demon monster who gives Baku new toys. Just kinda sounds like Kamen Rider to me?

On the other hand, Fujimi is also the guy who exists to illustrate the fallacy of prematurely leaping to conclusions when you don't actually have all the information you need. Heck, even just in this one, his assertion to Minami about Baku being a full-fledged agent is well-meaning but flawed.

With NOX, the audience and Baku have both seen contradictory sides to him, but asking the question "which set of facts should we disregard?" presumes it's right to disregard a fact. The real question is "what as of yet overlooked or unknown truth will reconcile those facts into a single larger picture?" After all those Dreamer stories where Baku can only save the day by considering things from new perspectives, it's tough to imagine willful ignorance of any kind as a positive step forward in his journey as a hero.

Is it really the world that needs Seven, or just CODE's world? If choosing to spare NOX then had unforeseen negative consequences, how are we to say destroying him now will be any different? They say knowledge is power, and I don't think the thing that allows Baku to truly start turning the show's larger conflicts around is going to be available as a role-play toy from Bandai.

I feel like I know the exact reason why they made that choice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lkhbD9vkfc

My takeaway was that he had absolutely no idea what Catastrom was and that's why he didn't expect to see it. Like how he didn't expect Zeztz to be able to no-sell his attacks like that, because he clearly didn't expect it to be that absurdly strong and durable.
I think the big question is whether CODE had injected that Nightmare into Baku to make him Zeztz. Or maybe that Nightmare is why he had to be Zeztz?

True, he only felt alive as an agent in dreams, but now that he has to seriously be one in the real world, during a real crisis, it becomes a nightmare instead.

Now that you mention it, I recall hearing Seven saying something about his kokoro/shin/heart when I watched Episode 1 RAW, but when I rewatched it with official subs, I saw "I know my own mind" and forgot what he actually said. Well I guess now I'm mad at the subs as well, there's a very big difference between knowing your heart and knowing your mind!

I mean, the world in general does need Seven to take care of the Demon King Nightmare. Knowledge is power, sure, but is power worth risking the lives of innocents and comrades? Even if Nox is likely to be spared once more, there has to be a better outcome than letting him continue to go around trying to destroy the world to spite CODE. As long as Baku/Seven does something, instead of the nothing that got his friends killed, then hopefully it will turn out okay.

Entirely possible! But NOX also has a habit of saying things that sound vague but turn out to have very specific meaning, so given that he said back in 17 about Baku

"That persistence of yours will someday lead you to disaster."

...it also kinda sounds an awful lot like he very much expected something like this to happen eventually, as someone who definitely knows things about Baku that Baku himself has yet to fully figure out? Which would then account for him talking about Baku being a "product of bad dreams" at the very end here, and probably go a ways towards explaining the deeper motives behind stuff like trying to get Baku to give up being ZEZTZ entirely back in 13.

I think I was actually disappointed with that translation watching the first episode as well? I think I've mentioned before how much that dialogue in particular really got me excited to be watching this show, and I felt it sort of lacked the same punch the way it was rendered in English?

But I do get it now. Obviously the specific issue is that a big concept in this show is the Mind's Doors, which we've since heard Zero say in English, so it's evidently the explicit preference of the show's staff, but I think the justification goes beyond that. The nuance of the word "mind" conveys a broader emphasis on thought, as a whole, rather than strictly feelings, and I will admit that's much more true to how the show generally uses the word.

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I don't think inaction was the right answer either, but the climax to this one absolutely felt to me like Baku running off half-cocked in a manner that's going to bite him, even if it's a necessary first step towards that eventual real solution.