Kamen Rider Gotchard Episode 4- "Antrooper Labyrinth!" Discussion
 

Houtaro encounters the Three Dark Sisters once again when trying to retrieve another Chemie.

As expected, Deepmariner Malgam is completely useless. He's defeated in just 35 seconds. That's pretty much his whole screen time in this episode.

Valvarad's Chemy Riser is different than the Academy's ones. His has a gattling gun barrel. Could it be that his CR is made by a different organization? Or perhaps he modified it himself, given the fact that he's the one who made the Valvarad suit.

Why does Spanner act friendly and casual toward Rinne? Perhaps he has known her (and her family) for a long time. His smile @ 06:58 looks kinda creepy. Could he be the new Kusaka? He also says that he's equal to Minato (and the others, probably referring to other teachers at the Academy), but his Ring has green gem, while Minato's has red gem. I think he's the type of person who often overestimates himself.

Looks like my hypothesis in episode 1 about Kajiki was correct. He could be an outsider who eventually succeed in uncovering the existence of the alchemy world. Also, it turned out that Minato's Neuralyzer spell isn't as powerful as I thought it was. Some people managed to remember their encounter with Gotchard and or the Chemies and spilled it on the internet. The fact that Kajiki mentions (and still remembers) that some information will be immediately purged means that the spell doesn't work uniformly. The same information purged from one or several individuals/sources may still be retained by other individuals/sources. This chaotic information asymmetry will inevitably result in distrust in society. I think this is the most interesting aspect of Gotchard's story so far. Can the writers elaborate on this potential plot? It can result in a very interesting dynamic in the story.

Renge continues to be goofy. I'd like to see how she uses Kamantis for other purposes than capturing new Chemies. I wonder what was Sabimaru's actor's reaction when he found out that he only needed to utter one word in this episode. The synopsis stated that Sabimaru also likes Chemies. He'll probably switch his personality from an awkward, asocial nerd to a talkative nerd when Chemies come into topic.

Houtarou keeps transforming using 2 matched RCC's. Hasn't he ever wondered what would happen if he attempts to transform using 2 mismatched RCC's? I'm interested in seeing how the writers elaborate that.

VenoMariner form looks ugly. Both the shapes and the colors are ugly. Well, what more can I expect? The synopsis stated that there are 101 RCC's, so it means that there are at least 50(!) forms. No one can keep their creative juice flowing smoothly 50 times in a row. Even Build, which I consider the Rider with highest number of blatantly unnecessary forms, only had 30(!) Best Match forms, and 75-85% of them were ugly. So, I can expect Gotchard to have more ugly forms than Build did. Quality will always beat quantity. At least, the AntWrestler form that will debut in the next episode looks much better.

Lachesis looks strangely weak and incompetent in this episode. She looked more powerful in human form in previous episodes. It could be that physical strength isn't her forte, but mental/psychological manipulation is. Clotho is the muscle of the group, and she'll be the focus in the next episode.

The fact that Lachesis knows that Rinne is Fuga's daughter probably means that Fuga and the Sisters' boss were once allies. It looks like they've already known each other. They were probably working together to use alchemy to change the world, albeit to two different directions. I don't think Fuga was a random outsider who incidentally stumbled upon a sophisticated, newly developed tool and decided to steal it to realize his own ideals. Fuga's motivation was probably like Sennin/Edith's from KR Ghost.

From the attitude of several characters like Fuga or Spanner, it looks like the Gotchardriver is a whole different tool compared to other common alchemical tools or weapons like Valvarusher. I have a hypothesis that the Gotchardriver is a tool created by the Sisters' big boss, who is also the ruler of Ouroboros.

Houtarou's dad's face is still intentionally obscured. It starts to smell like a red-herring to me. LOL.

Getting more about Fuga.

Guess the story actually addressed that Rinne is cold to Hotaro (albeit no longer condescending as in ep. 1, even to his cooking at the end), with Hotaro asking her it. Later Lachesis revealed that Fuga is apparently murdered. Previously there are some saying that Rinne's acting is stiff, but it can be perhaps just her type of personality (which as said here, also addressed that she's cold), but perhaps it'd be true in her reaction of hearing her father's death of being more of regular confusion (other than shutting down, with Hotaro dragging her along as usual), despite Lachesis gloating over her despair, albeit later she does shed tears.

Her father's teachings was to put rules above anything, while he himself breaks it. Growing up she now claims that she has no purpose to live unlike Hotaro, and she just performs alchemy for duty. Though performing her duty would benefit others, she does lose sight, with her child self claiming that her goal is the Kamen Rider sensibility of making everyone smile. Rules aren't be all end all of anything, so this'd be a case of child misblaming the parent, being lawful can block goodness (I prefer good) in making everyone smile. Maybe like the Chemies itself. The type to snap out of her funk by re-remembering her original purpose, saying she likes seeing her father smile.

It's lucky for Hotaro to accept Renge's deal this time as, they're only borrowing Kamantis and they'd return it later, so Hotaro gets 2 more Chemies without paying. Hotaro's empathy wins him over again here when he pretends to give up his Gotchardriver to Lachesis, only for the Chemy he befriended (and traded), Energyl to attack her and foil her plan. Hotaro's cooking actually fails here as it's not Rinne's taste....

Not unlike Submarine Malgam (but in less creepy way).... Spanner apparently has an interest to Rinne as well, her being his soft spot and the only one he's courteous at. At the end, so alchemy has its limits as Rinne showed, thus reducing it being broken and all solving, requiring Spanner to let Hotaro borrow Madwheel to free themselves.

Spanner's feelings for Rinne are probably the same reason why Deepmariner Malgam got so thoroughly beaten by Valvarad. I've compared Spanner to several Secondary Riders already, but yeah, the way he acts two-faced in his interactions with Houtarou and Rinne is a lot like Kusaka. While we don't see much of him in this episode, he definitely seems like a show-off who wants others to think he's bad*ss. Maybe "Kurogane Spanner" is a name he gave himself to stand out more.

Personally, I like VenoMariner and I wouldn't mind seeing the green and pink combo used more often. Regarding the 50 forms, some of those are presumably using Ride Chemy Cards outside the group of 101, since it's currently unknown how Gotchard can use Level 10s for the standard 8 categories. I will agree with you about Build, but for me, that's due to his asymmetrical design generally not appealing to me, unlike RabbitRabbit. The number of forms was also a problem though, as so many never got used and poor ScorpionGold didn't even make it to canon.

Yeah, if some people think Rinne seems stiff, well, that's in her personality, like you say. Doesn't seem fair for them to complain about her actress for depicting that. But then there are those who also think Houtarou is too hyper, so it's impossible to appease everybody. I think Rinne's reaction to Fuga's apparent death is still pretty tragic, like, she's clearly not the type to become hysterical, but she basically told Houtarou that her life no longer has meaning and that he shouldn't bother saving her, which shows a lot about the lonely despair she feels.

Neutral Good FTW. While those types may not be recognized as "lawful", they still follow their own internal laws as guided by a matured moral compass, rather than the external law created by authority to maintain order. They're willing to do unpleasant things for the sake of good that lawful types are reluctant to do, but they won't do it brazenly like chaotic types either. I think it's the most direct and reliable course towards good that is often seen in Kamen Rider.

I have to say, this show is rather boring so far. I'll give it a few more episodes, but I feel like passing on the whole thing right now.

The formula seems so watered down while every story and character they throw at you is entirely unoriginal. This show is so tiring to me because I feel like I have seen the original already and this is the Netflix-adaption or something.

I don't like a single character so far, the suits and effects are meh, and the story is what it is.

So I am not the only one who feels like this

Kurogane is a common surname, but Spanner? Yeah, ain't buying that. The writers might as well make his fate ends like Kusaka's, who became a Rider out of hubris to test his physical limit, and ended up dying because it turned out each transformation brought him closer to death.

My gut tells me that Houtarou-Rinne-Spanner's dynamic will probably be similar to Takumi-Mari-Kusaka's one, while Renge-Sabimaru's dynamic will be similar to Keitarou-Kaido's typical manzai one.

At first, I thought many of the RCC's only function as power ups/weapons/armor modifiers, like the majority of Drive's Shift Cars or Fourze's Astroswitches. But I was wrong. The existence of the Blank RCC means that the level 10 cards can be used in tandem with the Blank RCC to access a new form, very probably a super form of each category, like Build's Rabbit Tank Sparkle form. Level 10 RCC + Blank/level 0 RCC = 10. It still adheres to the original rule of 10. So, it's actually even worse now, because if level 10 RCC's do work that way, and if there are other RCC's beside the original 101 ones, which I'm 90% sure, then it means that there will be more than 50 forms. Gulp!

So far, I predict there will be:
= (9 ordinary RCC's per category x 10 categories) + (1 level 10 RCC's per category x 10 categories)
= (90 ordinary RCC pairs that grant ordinary forms) + (10 level 10 RCC pairs that grant super forms when each card is fused with the Blank RCC)
= 45 forms + 10 forms
= 55 forms!

If there is one final form for Gotchard, then Gotchard will end up with 56 forms. And that still doesn't include Spanner's Rider forms or the third Rider's (most likely Minato) forms, who'll transform with different driver(s).

Why can't we have small number of base forms with great, thematic, unified designs, like any KR shows before Build? Ghost's 15 base forms look paltry if compared with Build's Best Match forms. Gotchard (and Build) are what happens when Bandai goes completely out of control.

The sheer number of forms a Rider uses also negatively affects his characterization. To me, the more forms a Rider has, up to a point, the less competent he is in my eyes. I'd rather have a clumsy Shinji Kido that can fight and win in just one form for 33 episodes than a genius nerd that changes forms 3 times in just one episode.

I concur. So far, Fuga hasn't shown malicious tendencies. He very likely broke the rules not out of malice, but out of moral duty (and probably desperation as well). I think he was faced with the common moral dilemma of choosing between obeying rules (and or saving small number of people) or disobeying rules (and or saving greater number of people).

His name reads as "black metal spanner", so his surname is either conveniently fitting, or he changed that as well to fit his given name. Who knows?

I think Renge is the Kaido with her attempts at bargaining, while Sabimaru is the Keitarou with his "rotten people allergy". I wonder who'd be the Kiba and Yuka in this comparison.

The Level 10s for astrology and mythology are also known to somehow be a pair, even though they don't add up to 10. So that's at least 46 forms for the group of 101, in addition to 3 forms for power-up cards and the Final Form, increasing the total to 50. If the 10+blank sounds are actually canon, then it's 58, although I'm inclined to believe those are just for merchandise play value since they don't make a face in the Driver and "adding" 0 feels like a cheat.

This is what makes Decade Violent Emotion so intimidating, since he looks similar to the base form but can use all the Attack Rides he wants. Guys like Ryoutarou and Sento (especially as Katsuragi) aren't the most naturally adept fighters, so yeah, they need those form changes/inventions/Imagins to compensate and even then, there's some trial and error for them figuring out what works and what doesn't, like alchemy. Houtarou has strong reflexes and dexterity though, so number of forms isn't inherently reflective of a Rider's talent. In Hibiki's case, his first form change is proof of training hard.

Yeah, like, I can understand why Rinne feels like it's a hypocrisy, which it is, but Fuga's high regard for the rules is probably why he had the conviction to act against them. I think he made a moral judgment based on weighing those rules against what needed to be done and that's probably what he really wanted to teach Rinne. The importance of knowing the limits and where and when it's appropriate to push them. But Rinne was only a kid at the time, so she didn't read the subtext. At least now she realizes that she doesn't truly resent him and wants him to be okay.

Which was what I'm saying back in Die's 555 thread (regarding Yuka). I do think that Hotaro is too hyper though. While you can't appease everybody, it seems that the morally bankrupt + hammy characters would be the most acceptable with almost no haters (they can exist, but it tends to be frowned upon), like Kuroto and Woz, most memeable and quoatable. But yeah, I don't want if they're considered as the only right way to write/act (or behave, for irl people).... which'd sadly have me go through people like Inoue to convey this.

People in fanbase do seem to often view law as the be all end all of good too (and consider law breaking as bad/grey), and seem to think lawful good is the nicest or most empathetic person around, above other good alignment too. By this, the common main Rider character type would be viewed as lawful good by them only because they're nicest (following principles and wanting to fight for justice is seen as lawful). When honestly those main Riders (or those similar to them) would be neutral good as you said. And chaotic is also not necessarily brazenly like you paint them as with it being worse than other good (like those putting law on pedestal), it can be just like if you break the law in things like bypassing bureaucracy or authorization that limits them in doing good (which means, no actual harm, just ignored formality).

The idea of a lawful good Primary Rider sounds kind of like a contradiction, as Ishinomori specifically created Kamen Rider as a hero burdened by their sins. Neutral good examples would likely rather live lawfully, but what they do and what they are brings chaos, which even a cop like Shinnosuke isn't immune to. Chaotic good examples are less likely to care how others feel about them, or may even want them to stay away, like how Takumi is a loner due to his fear of betraying them, but that behavior is also what allows Kusaka to frame him in a poor light. Too much law or chaos can be detrimental.

Congrats on your 1200th post!