Maybe this subversion is part of what makes Toph so refreshing? :)

You just described the plot of almost every romantic comedy ever made.

Let me guess: you think she's a preachy crybaby who can't resist giving overemotional speeches about hope all the time?

No. I just didn't like her o.o

Does anyone seriously believe Azula is 14 years old? Girl looks 14 about as much Daniel Radcliffe looked 14 in Goblet of Fire.

She's 14? she always looked 18 to me.

… I even quoted her in my guess.

Wait, she was 14?!
I thought she was 18 :lol

Essentially, yeah. I hate that slap slap kiss kiss BS.

That's probable, actually.

No wonder why I think romcoms are the worst movie genre ever.

Yeah, Ty Lee is more "14 years old" than Azula. At least in that her design has less sharp angles and she's a bubbly "care free, except for that one thing that's eating at their young teenage mind that they never talk about" character. In Ty Lee's case, her "matching set" sisters.

Maybe all the characters are canonically 2 years younger than they look.

Yeah, it's so weird. Not only does Azula look too mature for a 14 year old, her brilliant mind and machinations are far too advanced. Her IQ must be through the roof!

Ty Lee's 14 too, but she looks too...mature for a 14 year old. :rolleyes

The appearance of a character doesn't always have to reflect their age in a fantasy world. You know Aragorn from Lord of the Rings? He's eighty.

Except it presents the problem that too many an anime have of having characters designed with the bodies of a 25 year old when they're only canonically 14.

Or 10...

Yeah, but Aragorn has the in-universe explanation of Dúnedain blood so that makes him longer-lived than most humans.

Well it's not a big nitpick I guess. Just a bit weird. :lol

It's not like Azula's age breaks the show or anything.
She just doesn't look like a 14 year old :lol

I wouldn't even say she looks 18 :lol

The weirdest thing for me is that not only does she not look 14, she is far too intellectually mature for a 14 year old. Same with Mai.

Korra's 17. Does she look 17?

I never got the thing with Avatar or Korra, it just felt like a 4kids anime only it hadn't been butchered by a terrible company...it was meant to be that way.

It's just a good show. Season 1 is a lot more episodic, but it's all very good, with each Bending style matching a real world martial art.

Yeah, more than we can say for that monstrosity of a movie.

Oh lord. I didn't even finish that movie...

I felt it was much too ambitious for a children's cartoon and most of it fell extremely flat. Especially Korra which tried to be a lot more dark and mature.

Avatar: The Last Airbender was a good blend of dark and fun. Korra I admit sometimes is a bit too tense, but I liked their ambition.

I think you need to elaborate more on what "fell extremely flat". It's quite a sweeping statement.

Just...all of it. Due to the extreme limitations on children's broadcasting in the US you have to make pretty huge changes to your show to tell your story, without the limitations feeling obvious and holding the show back.

Avatar and Korra just wanted to tell a straight shounen style anime story and ran head first into every brick wall that American Censorship put in front of them.

Which is, why I said, it felt like a 4kids dub of a much better show, rather than an epic original cartoon.

But everything mature they wanted to convey was depicted well enough. I can't think of any moments that would have benefited from laxer censorship, anything more than portrayed and it'll feel a bit gratuitous.

Could you describe some of these examples?

Not really in any great detail I gave up on Avatar years ago when I was lead in by the hype and found an extremely poor mans anime for my trouble.

I tried again with Korra when everyone jumped on the hype train again, but once again I just couldn't get into it. It was a very adult story, about like politics, racism, radicalism, love, family and anarchy and so on but so compressed and processed to comply with a child audience that it had no real stakes or tension or any real reason to watch it.

I will admit that Korra had some impressive action sequences, with some stunning animation. But dramatic execution style sequences don't mean much if all is really happen is your getting your forehead tapped and losing your powers.

"All of it" is quite the broad statement.

I'd honestly give it another chance, most especially considering it blows most anime out of the water by virtue of not being shit.

Season 1 of Avatar is episodic, but it improves in story and pacing with season 2.

Korra did suffer a bit from having too few episodes to tell its story. They originally thought they had to fit everything in 13 episodes, so there wasn't enough room. Hopefully future Korra episodes get to play about with it more.

I may be wrong, but I think you were misled by the hype. Avatar is one of the greatest examples of Western Animation, in my opinion, but it is still Western Animation. It was never meant to be a solely adult story any more than Justice League, Batman TAS, Young Justice, or any number of cartoons that similarly aim higher than the usual stuff. It is meant ultimately to entertain children.

Just like how Kamen Rider fans should stop promoting Kamen Rider as an adult TV show, Avatar fans would do well to stop the anime comparisons. It may share aesthetic similarities with anime, but it is definitely not anime in tone or feel.

While I think he has already made up his mind on liking the show, I must agree that "all of it" is really a broad statement. Too sweeping.

Yeah but DC animation gets away with hell of a lot more than Avatar has. DC animation allows characters to die, allows characters to get hurt, allows consequence, adult themes, romance. I'd say they were adult stories and did their best to avoid the censorship walls. Something I feel Avatar never achieved, and Korra did better, but still missed the mark.

I'm not gonna force him to rewatch it if he doesn't like it.

I just feel it's curious to drop the series at a shallow level.

But so has Avatar! All those themes you listed are present even in the original show and very clearly so in Korra!

This is why I find this so baffling, Avatar is equivalent to Justice League (for example) in terms of the mature themes they tackle and the content they allow. If you'd argue DC shows are just as bad as Avatar then fine, but to elevate one...

Being present isn't the same as being realised. Avatar would imply something while JLU (for example) would actually do it on screen.

It doesn't affect the narrative or story just because one show silhouettes or fade to black X character dies.

You need to be more specific. You mentioned:

All the deaths in JLU were implied or at least muted. When characters get hurt, they don't go further than the stock Western Animation bruise or cut.

In terms of consequences, adult themes and romance, it'll have to be debated individually, but having watched all episodes of both series, I really don't see where JLU "does something" that Avatar would be too afraid to do.

It does alter investment though. I don't need gritty dark shit all the time, I actually dislike it most of the time, but when I'm watching a show and I know a character I care about can get hurt...or can actually die...I'm watching the battle on the edge of my seat with a wet flannel as I'm sweating so bad. It's intense and thrilling and so enjoyable to watch.

That is a big reason why I've been watching an anime called Shingeki No Kyojin, the show isn't that great, but it's unrelenting in its action and you never know what will happen next. Just don't get attached to anyone.

When I'm watching a show where I know the worst that is gonna happen is he's gonna need a new shirt afterwards, I find it very hard to care. There was one point, where Aang got shot right through his chest, and for me the series peaked there because it was the first, and only time, when shit truly got real.

Off the top of my head - Batman Beyond. Terry becomes Batman to avenge his fathers murder, after Powers creates a chemical weapon which kills people and his Dad got to close. Not implied. Real. The death of his Dad and his Mother's battle to hold everything together was a central aspect to the series.

Until they started to mess around with how Terry was...but you get my point. It happened.

I can understand that.
I just don't feel a story can be told well when it's a "Who's gonna die next!?!" style of writing, because characters are introduced later on who can perform the same tasks as X character who died and turn into poor expies of said character *Cough*Near*Cough*Mello*CoughCough* and just don't have the same allure or charm as who we got invested in earlier.

While I do understand that it's hard to feel explicit tension when a main character is put into a dangerous situation because being genre savvy makes it difficult, the same is true of almost any series, where it's either a torn shirt and a bit of red jam on their face or making death cheap.

Katara's mother's murder happened. It was a huge part of Katara's backstory and motivation.

Oh if the whole crux and novelty is gonna be 'who is gonna die next' then I don't appreciate it either. But I like my shows to have actual cause and effect and consequence something that Avatar rarely had.

And really? I remember nothing about Katara at all, I only made it through the first two seasons and I felt I had given the show enough of my time to impress me and it hadn't yet.

I agree, when Anyone can Die is abused it cheapens the story. That was actually very well put, Matrix.

Also, Iroh's son's death practically formed his personality. As did Zuko's mother's disappearance (not a death, but for all intents and purposes is).

But once again 'practically' and 'for all intents and purposes' is different than it actually happening in the story and narrative. That is why I didn't appreciate Avatar and found it very kid friendly, whereas I found stuff like JLU, BTAS and Beyond much more catered for an adult (or at least much older) audience.

Really? I felt Season 2 had tons of consequencies to the actions of the characters.
Eh. Not every show is for everyone.

Well, Iroh's son's death was a wartime casualty, so while it does shape his character, I wasn't inclined to include it because it happened so long ago.

And people died in JLU and BTAS (Outside of Bruce's parents)?
I can only remember Devil Ray, and his death was silhouetted out.