And here’s my final new character intro of the first half

Eiki (Sharp Demon) is a character that was intended to join the regular cast, to the point the actor who voices him is the guy who reads the next episode titles (Kazuya Nakai). But I think you can guess what happened there.

Anyway, for the next leg of the series, I’ve found my running gag for this thread (believe me, I’ve got ones planned for the next 4). I’m going to do my own song lyrics which vaguely describe the next episode (not to the point of being spoiler filled, since most of the choices are random)

Everything changes, changes
Changin' all the time
Playin' with your mind
Modified or rearranged
Everything has got to change

- Everything Changes, Pokémon 2.B.A Master

There was a point where watching that last episode of Hibiki started to get me a little emotional, and, funnily enough, it wasn't even during the episode itself. No, it was just in the preview, where they made it a point to include Hibiki telling Asumu to run, and this huge wave of... nostalgia, I guess, suddenly hit me before I even realized why – it's the same dialogue Hibiki had in episode 2 the last time he fought a giant spider.

I went into the back half of the two-parter now understanding the gravity of it all. Why the monster is a Tsuchigumo again, and why Hibiki is on a quest to make a new drumstick, exactly as he was at the start of the show. They knew. They straight up knew this would be their final set of episodes to tell the version of Hibiki they wanted to, and that's why, like any good finale, there are loads of callbacks to the beginning of the series. This is, without a doubt in my mind, the final episode of Hibiki. It was such an obvious and conscious decision to have the entire cast in one room at the very end, especially, like everyone walking on-stage at the end of a play or something, that makes it all the more apparent.

So yeah, like Die says, there are lots of fun things to talk about with the action, too. To sum it up, you can really tell Osamu Kaneda was the director, but man that is just not what's going to stick with anybody about these ones.

If you knew nothing about what was to come, I wonder how it would have felt to tune into this episode and the whole thing carrying such a distinct 'finale' feel. It is a really nice and warm set of episodes regardless though, made all the sweeter (or maybe bitter) that this was basically the end for the current production crew.

I would say that Asumu's encounter with the shoplifter happening in flashback was one of the surest sign that the team knew this was going to be their last work, so they wanted to pick up on that thread again. Buuuut it also reminded me of how Kuuga's first battle with Daguva was presented only in brief, blurry flashbacks, so for all I know, it could have actually been a bizarre but conscious decision.

Thanks for the song lyrics! It definitely feels appropriate, based on the Next Episode teaser.

Also, can't believe I didn't notice this until now, but Eiki is the Sharp Demon. Sharp, like a musical note. Amazing.

I meant to bring up all of the earlier call backs (same Douji/Hime, fighting a giant spider in the woods, saving Asumu, broken drumstick, the whole Live Your Life moral) but I got distracted and forgot, so thank you for mentioning them!

Yeah, everything about these two episodes (less the Mister Douji and Miss Hime stuff) says that it's folks who are finishing their statement, for better or worse.

It is like Daguva! Yes! Great point. The way it already happened before the episode starts, the blurry flashbacks, the way the violence seems like a higher level than what we've seen before... yeah, Daguva!

I thought it was pretty humorous how Todoroki thought he was being clever with the Eiki pun until he found out Eiki did it first. Todoroki was so disappointed. It's a shame Eiki is only a minor Oni, he has a really cool suit and his brown color with turquoise accents is unique!

It's also a nice parallel to Shounen losing his spirit after getting beat up by the bully with a vendetta. This unfortunate encounter may not have shaken him so much before but after his many interactions with the Oni and slowly building his confidence around them, it's a long way to fall down and it's easy to feel weak and purposeless after an experience like that. He looks up to the Oni who exterminate Makamou every week but his failure to defend himself against a mere human has increased his self-loathing more than ever. It was only thanks to Hibiki's definitely-not-mentoring that he could salvage from that experience and pick himself up to try again next time. You can't expect to go from zero to hero without failing a lot on the way and Shounen losing a fight doesn't mean he'll lose them all.

Well, good thread, Die. See you for Kabuto! Just kidding. The best may be behind now but there's still a lot to talk about for the rest of the show. It's not all bad, there are some genuinely cool and emotional moments to look forward to. I believe the quality of Hibiki's second half is comparable to Agito's first half.

It was a pretty high level pun, if Eiki was using it, too. Todoroki should be proud!

(Also, speaking of Todoroki and pride, I'm just going to toss in here that I loved that the show had moments where both Hibiki and Zanki tossed towels to their kids when they came in from the rain. That parallel of parenthood, I thought it was subtle and affecting. This show's all little moments, you know?)

I'm pretty sure I liked the first half of Agito (who knows anymore, my memory is nowhere), so that's decent news!

The drumming training, something Asumu finally had in common with Hibiki that he can at least teach (and even whistling is brought up too), and pointed out by Hinaka that he can potentially become Oni by drum training, but this one part dude...
terrible.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...2116/relax.png

BTW, sorry for bugging for this part, but can you reply to the part about, again, my further reply about the Asumu/Hitomi feelings with the show vs audience reaction?

So, yeah, which kind of this part, like the information part (of the threats in this case) that you'd very much appreciate? Like something that doesn't bother you as being mysterious (you can't say it's a bad thing too only because you seemingly not into mystery!). Obviously the colors and cuts is an art of cinematography here... And, for what you say, the monster threat being escalating, it's probably like, the most mainstream trope that happens in an action-driven show, and yeah I know it's done to push the heroes harder and harder and adds more challenges after the previous one is passed. Though just informing, the Makamous really have no identity, the man and woman are literally just refered as "The Man and Woman", and they're the main antagonists of the series for the first half. Black and White Puppets are their "children", black from woman, white from man (how different the monsters are, even the males can breed childrens!).

Oh, the standard "overprotective" parent to forbid. It doesn't need to be explained, probably the parents would think that Oni job is dangerous so they forbid him but still. The show didn't address on it, but this should be given as a lesson for parenting, you can be concerned for your child, but don't let that ruins the child's life instead like giving them issues like this (being haunted, which can be overlooked, issues that aren't about life or death, by parents too). I feel like Tsutomu is being victim here, and that thought doesn't cross you? (that you seem ok with this).

Wow, so Tsutomu is trying to be a lifesaver (not as an Oni, but still). I thought from his looks, as well as like you said, him trying to hit on Hitomi, he'd be a delinquent or something (and he still seems so to me with his questions to Asumu). It seems that he more resembles Zanki in his demeanor. I know that Hibiki talks about how he's going to have apprentice and train them in his own way, and that Asumu is brought up for this one, especially about how he won't be an Oni, but I'd like to see how'd he accomplish this, that sadly we won't get, that this is near episode 30.

I don't know, it seems like an okay way to teach drumming? I've never studied an instrument, so... is this a bad way to learn? I honestly don't know!

I am going to take a pass on that. Sorry!

I really liked how Midori broke down what the Black Puppet and White Puppet specialize in, the sizes of the threats, and then built in some of the seasonal stuff. They weren't necessarily questions I was asking, but it gave a clearer context to what was happening so far.

For sure, it's part of the formula... but I really like that part of the formula? I like that point in the season where the show just shifts up a gear, visibly, intentionally. I like the statement to the audience of Now It's Worse For Our Heroes. It's totally formulaic, and I love it. It's a bias!

I think a lot of depends on the age of the character. If it's someone over 18, then I don't think they should have that much deference to their parents' wishes. They're adults, and they (should hopefully) have the skills and awareness to decide for themselves what kind of life they want to lead.

On the other hand, if I'm the parent to a 15-year old who wants to train to fight spiders the size of houses? You are goddamn right I'm yanking them out of that program. Tsutomu's parents are 100% in the right on this one. Takeshi is... I don't know if they should be allowed to have high school-aged apprentices! That seems astonishingly dangerous and legally actionable!

I mean, even in his first appearance he seemed like an okay kid. Polite, friendly. Him hitting on Hitomi, I mean, why wouldn't he? He met a cute, single girl at a public place, they clearly had chemistry. He wasn't a creep about it or anything. He seemed like a good kid!

KAMEN RIDER HIBIKI 1-29 WRAP-UP

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/...bikiphase1.png

"Won't you sleep with me every night for a week
Won't you just let me pretend this is the love I need"

-Waxahatchee, "Swan Dive"

I honestly don't know if I like Hibiki, or if I just want to like Hibiki.

There's a ton of quality in this series. The characters are phenomenal, with so much depth and dimension. The arcs are real, honest, important. Every actor elevates their part, adding clever notes to make a richer, fuller world. The stories this show chooses to tell are so much more grounded and relatable than anything I've ever seen on a Kamen Rider show. It takes parts and stories that would normally be mortar, the home lives and school troubles and tiny indignities, and makes them bricks.

Except, I fundamentally don't know if they're right to do that. The things this show is great at are things you can watch in a hundred other shows, in genres that more fully support those ideas. If I wanted a warm family dramedy, I'd just go watch a warm family dramedy. I'm watching a superhero show, and the superhero parts of Kamen Rider Hibiki are almost infuriatingly weak.

Like, the formula in place of Camping > Douji And Hime > More Camping > Makamou, it's so goddamn boring at times. Most times, if I'm being honest. More than once I've mentioned how weird it is that the monster plots seem like they distract from the drama, and that honestly shouldn't happen once, let alone on multiple occasions. Compelling monster plots are a necessity in a superhero show, and Kamen Rider Hibiki treats them as perfunctory, as afterthoughts. There's something positive to be said about the ways the show uniquely makes the mythic elements, the superhero elements, mundane. In fact, I've said exactly that! But it substitutes Being Clever As A Concept for Being Fun To Watch, and that's maybe not a great trade.

Kamen Rider Hibiki... it's like going to a steakhouse whose best dish is the chicken. Even if the chicken's great, wouldn't you be better off going to a chicken place? And shouldn't the steakhouse excel at serving steak?

There are moments in the first 29 episodes of Hibiki that I adore, and every single one of them is a non-superhero moment. That's not incredibly out of character for me or anything, I'm usually less dialed into the superhero stuff, but the level to which I feel like this show undercooked the superhero parts... it's not great. It is not a great look.

This is all sounding maybe more negative than I thought it was going to come out. I really connected with the characters, and I enjoyed spending time with them. It's just, I feel like I haven't been watching a Kamen Rider show, you know? The things I want out of a Kamen Rider, it's not saying Henshin or collectibles or motorcycles or anything. Hibiki skipping out on that stuff, I don't think it's a dealbreaker. But there's a specific kind of arc, a specific kind of storytelling, that this show opted out of in the first 29 episodes. It wanted to do something different, and it had a clear vision on how to do that, but the differences made it too little of a Kamen Rider show for me at times.

It's the lack of any spine to the Makamou story, if I had to point to one exclusion that seems especially problematic. I guess there's a little more to it now, in the back 40% of the show, but it's too little, too late. The Makamou are animals, but they feel like natural disasters in the narrative. The Oni that are fighting them, there's no real intricate strategy or anything to the individual stories. Little variations, maybe, different weaknesses or hunting grounds, but the basics are the same. It's simplistic in a way that I thought this franchise had left behind, and it hamstrings any sense of progression that'd give new weight to a stale formula. (I really sound like I hated this show! I didn't think I did, but these are the words I'm typing so maybe!) The monster plots... it's like the Oni are fighting fires. How many different stories can you do about fires getting started? And once the fire needs to be put out, how many versions can you do of it needing to be put out? I know there're shows about firefighters, but I also know I've got zero interest in watching them. And I've got a huge interest in watching Japanese superheroes detonate monsters!

I don't know. This is all coming off real down on the show, and that's maybe not what you'd expect after a generally positive thread so far. (I think?) But as I'm trying to think back on the last month or so, I'm finding myself more and more disappointed in how little entertainment I found in the Oni stuff. The non-Oni stuff, great, front-to-back, with precious few exceptions. The Oni stuff? Largely forgettable.

All of which is to say, you know, not going to suggest that this show maybe didn't need a different take for it. If the current creative team was unable or unwilling to course-correct, maybe it was time to bring on a new one. I might end up missing some of what the first team valued in storytelling, but there's definitely room for improvement.

Alright, I've been waiting for a while to pop and say this, but there goes.

A lot of people, including Die it seems, really did like this first part of the show, but we already know it would change after this.

But some of the people who worked on this first part of Hibiki got a second chance and later made another show called Daimajin Kanon. If you liked Hibiki so far, you should check it out. Both shows share many of the same themes and ideas: an emphasis on music, a young person at a critical part of their emotional development gaining a mentor who is a secret warror that protects humans from monsters, an emphasis on personality and drama over action, etc.

Unlike Hibiki there is was no interference from the higher ups. The show got to run its course and finish as intended. No pressure to conform to the expectations of a long running franchise. No being forced to distract from the stories just you can have the customary fighting scenes.

IMO it's all of the best parts of Hibiki without most of its flaws.

Anyhow, my shameless plug is done. Please return to your regularly schedule discussion.

Good to know! And thanks for the recommendation!

As much as there are parts of this show that I think don't work (the lethargic pace of the monster plots, the lack of a compelling central villain, a formlessness to the stakes), I do wish that the original creative team had been allowed to finish their version of Hibiki. Regardless of what the next team comes up with... yeah, a bummer that the original intention won't be fully known.

I do wonder, had this show been the way it was, but the toys were all cool transforming and beeping devices like the ones in Faiz, maybe everything would have turned out okay for the production team after all? Not that it matters, with the unique direction and story choices that purposefully treat the superhero action as mundane as possibly, mixed with the so-and-so merchandise, I wasn't surprised at all to hear that the show didn't exactly sell well nor did it appeal to the average Rider fan. It's great to see you receiving the show well, though I totally get how it must have been somewhat surreal and even disappointing at parts in how it disregards the typical tokusatsu tropes that is expected.

However, barring all that, it's a real shame that Hibiki wasn't allowed to keep hitting it's own beat. I'd be saying that even if I didn't like the show, since I think it's always great when ambitious or creative visions take precedence over being easy to sell. That just doesn't or can't happen in this franchise anymore. ...Well, I mean, it couldn't happen to too far a degree back in 2005 either since yeah, everyone got fired for this show, but still.

But, oh well. Even if I wish for more variety in style and stories in Kamen Rider, I still stick with it because clearly this formula they have and will continue milking for decades is something that appeals to me.

Have fun with the movie! I hope you specifically watch the Director's Cut which has a slightly longer runtime because it has a few extra scenes here and there.

I can see where you're coming from, Die. I don't have the same take on the show, but I get it. I love that they went for something different here and I actually quite like the action scenes. The giant CGI monster fights are very much limited by 2005 kid's TV show budget CGI, but I still think we get some good action scenes. Of course, at the end of the day I'm here for Hibiki and Asumu's relationship and the warm feelings of being with this cast of characters that I love. I'm fine with the show not having as much focus on the monster fighting because goddamn is this some good steakhouse chicken.

I think one of the biggest tragedies about what happened with Hibiki is that it brought the really experimental part of the early Heisei era to an end. Kabuto is a much more conventional Rider show and after that we got Den-O, which was such a big hit that almost every show that came after it would copy a lot of its elements. We wouldn't get a show that really tried anything radically different again until Gaim. I love so many of the shows that came after this, but I can't help but wonder how things might have been different if Toei were still more willing to experiment with the show.

And I'm glad catwhowalks brought up Daimajin Kanon. It's very much the spiritual sequel to Hibiki and is absolutely delightful in many of the same ways. You also get a lot of catharsis from it, as the core plot is about a young woman who's dealing with depression after a deeply personal creative work gets stolen from her and crassly commercialized.

I'll also join FreshToku in hoping you enjoy the movie. I think it's one of the more fun movies from this era, even if its inspirations are kind of obvious.

In case this was not further explained, here I go. Onis of Takeshi primarily tend to have names where their oni name and real name's first syllables are all the same. For example:
Hibiki > Hitoshi Hidaka
Ibuki > Iori Izumi
Todoriki > Tomizo Todayama
Zanki > Zaomaru Zaitsuhara
Also, Danki > Daisuke Danda

Another fun fact, Hibiki's suit actor and primary "nigo rider" actor during the first batch of Heisei rider shows, has retired some time ago and is now a judo therapist.

Well. I mean.

I get where you're coming from and in the wider picture I get and agree with your overall point (we're never getting something like Kuuga again), but 'conventional' is perhaps the last word I'd use to describe Kabuto :lol


I'm glad you enjoyed it Die, and it's definitely interesting to see your perspective on this. I guess if I was to take your metaphor and say why I like it despite that... maybe it would have been better to go for a Chicken place to begin with, but often I'm not too fond of Chicken places; and the atmosphere and trappings of a steak house are not just what allured me to this one to begin with but also make it a lot more unique. Though it also definitely helps that I like the steak here a fair bit more than you!

I haven't been talking much due to a lot of things happening otherwise and my laptop only coming in this week; and it takes a while for me to get my thoughts down. So maybe expect some Hibiki 1-29 posts on the 30-47 portion, weirdly enough? I promise that's not out of spite of that second half! Promise! Though I'll definitely have some things to say about at least 30 and 47 themselves.

All in all the first half of Hibiki is an experience that I think is super understated in Rider whether it's something one likes or not -- you won't find anything else like it, even moreso than W or Kuuga; and it's a good watch for any Rider fan. Here's hoping you'll join Andro in the ranks of one of the few people who likes the next batch!

Yeah, this is one way to put it. Some people just really like steak! Heck, maybe, hypothetically, you know, let's say your kids are big fans of steak, and are always dragging the family to steakhouses. You don't really see the appeal, but children just seem to eat the stuff up, and it makes them happy. But a steakhouse that also serves some great chicken, that maybe satisfies your more refined tastes better, and going to that particular steakhouse leaves everyone happy.

Except, uh, in this case, the kids think this particular steak is boring and bland...

...and they'd rather go watch Magiranger instead.

Okay I'm maybe not good with metaphors, but my point is that I will always appreciate a show like Hibiki that's clearly trying to be this well-rounded work that holds value to a wide range of people. Dropping the figurative speech for a bit, I've always been obsessed with "steak", and a big part of that is how flexible I feel stories with superheroes or otherwise colorful characters can be. I love seeing them dip their toes into all kinds of genres and using those larger than life elements to complement the narrative in a way less fantastic stories simply aren't capable of. A tale about a teacher questioning the worth of his job carries a lot more impact when the worth turns out to be the hero saving the city from monsters on a weekly basis, yeah?

And, uh, as you can maybe tell from the fact the example I just pulled was from Kuuga, I'm honestly not the best person to stick up for Hibiki. Sometimes there are shows I respect a lot more than I like, and Hibiki is exactly that. Mind you, I'm judging that within the standard of how much I already like Kamen Rider; I absolutely like this show a whole lot! And I certainly have my attachment to it. But while rewatching it was loads of fun, and I think I do have a deeper appreciation for what it was doing now than I used to, there's a simple truth about my feelings towards the show I kept coming back to:

Hibiki just doesn't resonate with me all that much.

...admittedly I might've only been thinking that so often because it makes for a good pun in Japanese. (心に響かないという) But, I don't know, there's like this invisible barrier between me and the show or something. Despite everything, it doesn't stick with me the same way so many other Rider shows do. I have a few theories as to why. The big glaring one is that, as I've mentioned in a few places, finales are keys to me (just look at Blade!), and Hibiki didn't get to have one of those the way it wanted to. For all I know, the best was yet to come, and the "true" version of this show would've been special to me the same way something like Kuuga or Ghost is.

But obviously we'll never quite know, and, yeah, it's both a huge shame and also not hard to see why things went the way they did. I've actually probably got one of the more generous outlooks on the next era of this series (maybe?), though, and while I don't like to say these things upfront, I think there's a more than good chance you won't feel the need to retire the phrase "Inoue forever" when all is said and done. So despite all this doom and gloom, I don't think it's exactly all downhill from here.

That being said, I'll also join in the crowd recommending Daimajin Kanon whenever you have time like half a decade from now. Or just to anyone who liked Hibiki, for that matter. It's a show I only watched recently that I maybe like way less than Hibiki and respect maybe a bit more, but there's such an absurd amount of talent from Takatera's other shows there it might as well be that back half we didn't get. Sahashi still does all the music, some of the directors are the same (no Ishida though), Ooishi and Arakawa were the writers, Makoto Itou was even one of the suit actors... it's a very sincere show with a lot to recommend, and it deserves enough attention I'm just going to leave the opening right here, since it describes the series better than I ever could.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNr515nGHfY

I don't feel like I can really add anything to this outside of what anyone else said, so I'll just go ahead and say that the first half of Hibiki really highlights something that makes Phase 1 Heisei my favorite era of Kamen Rider overall: The willingness to experiment and the drive to make (almost) every show really unique. Granted, I'm only halfway through Showa and like a third through Phase 2 Heisei, but it seems like that era more than the others tried the hardest to have every season stand out from the rest, and it's a shame that the series would lose that once the era closed.

Fair point, but I still feel like it’s tonally a lot closer to shows like Blade or Ryuki than Hibiki ever was (not counting the retool, of course, because I never would).

You guys! Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts on the first phase of Hibiki! (Or, for Switchblade's benefit, the true phase of Hibiki.) Someday I'm going to figure out how to actually be awake when these posts are coming in (what if people who wanted to talk about Hibiki lived in my country or slept at night), but in the meantime, let me have this pleasant afternoon of responding to a page of Hibiki thoughts. It's a fitting tribute to this exiting era!

I think one of the most valuable parts of Hibiki is, maybe, showing how far you can stretch the Kamen Rider formula/franchise? This show's stunningly well-made, but it pushes itself way too far outside the boundaries of what you can get away with on a show designed to sell toys to Japanese children.

Even though I agree with you, and would've preferred the main team got to see their story through, there's only so much I'm going to feel like the creators got robbed. I mean, this was not the first Kamen Rider show of all-time; there's an expectation and a mandate and probably financial benchmarks. If they were either delusional enough to think things were going to magically turn around or stubborn enough to not care... maybe they're lucky they got 29 episodes!

Yeah, I... this show maybe made me appreciate the formula a little more? I'm not sure that's the sort of praise they want, though!

Hmm. The thing is, I've got the Director's Cut in standard def, and the Theatrical Cut in hi-def. I'm not sure which one I'll watch tonight. If anyone else has a take on this, let me know!

Honestly, the budgetary stuff like the CGI... as much as I might rag on it or call it out, it's not even in the Top 20 of problems I might've had with the show. It's janky (one time embarrassingly so), but it's a TV budget from 2005. I can make allowances!

It's more that the fights and action feel so impersonal, so characterless. One of my early-Heisei complaints, coming out of Phase 2, was that there's no chatter with the villains, that they're all growling monsters. Hibiki takes that and says But What If They Were Also Gigantic And Had No Personality. Like, there're the Douji and Hime, but we're usually lucky to get one scene with both of them before they get partially or completely detonated.

For me, I need to feel like a Kamen Rider is fighting someone, not just fighting. I didn't really get that out of Hibiki's action scenes.

Yeah, maybe! As much as this part of Hibiki has made me appreciate some of the guard-rails in the Kamen Rider franchise, it could've been fun if this all got to be a little more unique and unexpected as time went on.

Sound like something I'd really enjoy! I look forward to checking it out in 2025!

It's going to be a fun movie night, I'm guessing!

Very cool! Thanks!

Sure! There's a real element of I Can't Believe You're Trying This And I Can't Believe It's Working that helps add an addictive flavor to Hibiki's early episodes, one that keeps you hooked even when the more traditional parts come up short. If someone was feeling burned out or let down by shows like Blade or Faiz (how dare), I can see where Hibiki would feel like a pleasant alternative.

I look forward to it, even if you'll have to remind me of basically everything that happened in an episode I watched last week. I do not retain this stuff very well.

Even if I unequivocally adored the first part of Hibiki... I mean, Inoue. There's almost no chance I dislike the Inoue part.

...right?

This is maybe coming close to something I was thinking about last night (hi I never stop thinking about Kamen Rider), and that's the fact that Hibiki opted to make the subtext (how does a boy become a man, and how do you raise a child) into text (the Asumu/Hibiki storyline) maybe robbed it of the metaphorical and allegorical tools a Kamen Rider show needs to thrive?

Without Asumu being an early-20s Oni trainee, and without Hibiki being his official mentor, it doesn't leave the show a lot of ways to express an episode's themes in more dynamic, sci-fi superhero ways. It largely just creates two separate piles: Story and Action. It'll rhyme them, a bit, but it's always clear that the Story is happening to and with people, while the action is happening to and with monsters and Oni.

Like, I don't want to tell anyone how to fix a show that went off the air over a decade before I started watching Kamen Rider, but: Zanki and Todoroki. That's the maybe more successful, more superhero-y version of Asumu and Hibiki. That's where you can tell metaphorical stories about the difficulties of growing up, of being a good parent, but doing it within the framework of a Kamen Rider show. Is it as special or unique as the Asumu/Hibiki stuff? Definitely not. Would it've been more fun to watch? Possibly!

Yeah, the formula... Like I've mentioned, Hibiki's lack of it maybe hurt some of its momentum, but it's not like a strict adherence to it saved a bunch of Phase 2 shows. Wizard, man, that is a show that locks into the formula to the exclusion of all else, and it can be a grind. I think it pays off in the ending (your mileage may vary), but it makes for a rough middle section.

Oh, this seems to be about, something you were irked about, that is, Good People Have Bad Shit Happen To Them, where Asumu got beaten up by that shoplifter. But it seems that (with relief, but I still wonder) you accept this story here, that it gives off a theme about perseverance. So what makes you seem to accept this one? Or that this proved what I said before that character growth, and flawed characters getting better can happen without having them cause bad shit all the time for story to express flaws (at worse acting OOC just for the sake of being responsible)? I guess for the first half, the mentoring Hibiki shows is used here, and it's the standard motivational word then. For some reason I dunno, but Hibiki having damaged taiko drum feels cheaper to me, because probably Takeshi didn't really have limit of resources like, to make newer ones, I mean, probably that's their job to supply.

Interestingly and likely appropriately, getting back up and trying again isn't shown in the Jounan exam before, probably because the exam is one time thing. And about the times where you get knocked down and figuring out how not to get knocked down again, that's important to be teached, but this is frequently taken to the extremes, with something as victim blaming or even justifying crime acts being used to "toughen" ._.

Life's constantly cycling between good and bad things like that yeah, and she channels Oni about "training and training" (I know not physical training). She seems to want to consult to Takeshi group but she acts like an advisor when getting there ~ And even if those are strangers, they ought to accept her as she's the mom of the boy they're nurturing.

What I refer to was resting on those, pillows? With shoes on.

Well, it depends if you're only forbidding them if not enough age (which is probably plausible) or just forbid them ever (which seems bad to me). I mean, there are those that trained them to fight since they're little, probably at least that.

It's that the show used past history to tell new stories. Asumu isn't just attacked on the street, he's beaten up by the same shoplifter who threatened him before. It's all a consequence of previous storylines, and it feels like something that gets a resolution here.

She's a great mom. (And, as a taxi driver, probably an incredibly hard worker.) And, yeah, I don't know if she's going to them for advice so much as unloading all of her doubts and hopes and concerns about Asumu. She's a single mom, she's probably got no one to vent this stuff to, at least who would understand her position.

I mean, those pillows are already on the grass! They're plenty dirty!

Well, you can forbid a child, you can't really forbid an adult. Forbidding an adult means the adult has to accept someone else's control over their life and autonomy. That's something that takes agreement. For Tsutomu and training to be an Oni, it might be something he revisits in a few years, when he can.

As far as children training to fight... do you mean like martial arts? Because there's a huge difference between sparring in a competition and fighting a literal giant to the death. There are vastly different stakes!

Well, I’ve made my peace with the first half being something that’s good, just not for me a while ago. Now, it’s time for my three points in favour of the next leg.

Point 1: This video (Beware of minor character spoilers)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ra-fSBdgxMU

Taka has been described by someone on Twitter as “the Mr. Rodgers of the Toku community”, and his voice certainly carries some weight.

Point 2: This tweet from MrChangeDragon of the Ranger Crew forum (spoilers will be censored this time)

[QUOTE]4 episodes into the retool, yeah there's some obvious changes (Having Makamou fighting in the city, writing out the Black and White Hime & Doujis for the Super ones, the fact there's actual conflict now) but so far nothing that feels like a disgrace. It's kinda proto-Kabuto.

This guy is someone with a lot of sway in the fandom (he’s been in the Tokusatsu continuity before there was a widespread Tokusatsu continuity) and even at the end of the show, he was willing to say that Hibiki had displaced Kuuga as his favourite Rider show of the Heisei era (his overall favourite is Black RX)

Point 3: This quote from earlier in the thread.
Okay, my reasons for this one are a little bit of bias on my part, but I felt I needed three reasons for this post.

Oh yeah Taka! I don't wanna derailed the post about Hibiki but he's a really cool guy! And his content is something invaluable to non-asian toku fans. Because despite knowing that there a fandom on the opposite side of the world and also social media interaction is often times limited. And it's honestly refreshing hearing what Japanese people look for into toku show and how they feel about thier stuff being known outside of the world. At the same time I've seen Taka being confused over stuff from here that people have clarified. Such as knowing that Power Rangers is kind of like what happening now with Kamen Rider with a couples of seasons being released officially but otherwise having to rely on fansubs for the rest.(Though sadly for the japanese fansubs for PR isn't as worked on like Rider in the english community) And generally these interaction help's him improve his english which is great because learning a different language is very hard and I'm glad the guy has a way to continuisly practice his skills. Sorry about the tangent but I do generally think that all the stuff Taka has made has given great insight on the japanese toku fandom.

I will agree with him on one thing: there is a pair of characters that actually do get some pretty great stuff after the production change. That is, of course, Todoroki and Zanki. I don’t think it’s worth sitting through everything else, though.

hey maybe now is a good time to reiterate that spoiler tags don't show up in the notification emails i get for these threads

just saying

I believe I missed that, but I’ll keep it in mind in the future.

Thanks! I mean, nothing's been said yet that's problematic, but it's a thing that folks could consider before big stuff gets tossed out.

Maybe in the future it'd be a good idea to explicitly mention the issue with tags when you lay out your spoiler policy at the start of each thread?

It's not the most obvious thing (in fact, I'd say it's downright counterintuitive), and I'd hate to see you accidentally get spoiled on something major by somebody genuinely trying to make an effort not to just throw major plot beats or twists out there.

I'll try to remember that for next time!

And, I hope my tone didn't seem confrontational or anything? I wasn't really put out or anything, and I'm sorry if I came off as though I was. It wasn't meant to be anything more than a reminder, but I can see how the joking tone was maybe more aggressive (or insulting) than I'd intended.

I honestly don't get mad if people accidentally (either through being too excited or getting thwarted by TokuNation's emails) spoil stuff. I get that it's unintentional, and it'd be weird to get super-upset about story beats from 1 to 20 years ago being discussed.

I hope this puts things right! I honestly didn't mean to offend anyone by being flippant.

Oof, you almost found out that the final villain is Sabaki after he finds this little trinket known as the Kaixa Belt and he gets posessed by the spirit of Kusaka.

That would be extra unfortunate, since no amount of additional late-series forms would allow the Oni to defeat Sabaki. He's the best of them!

I certinitly don't want the surpise of Toei retooling Hibiki into an anniversary season in order to win back the kids and also boost merch with Legend Rider toys to be ruined! And that Sabaki was Shocker along!
(Funfact they actually did to that for Skyrider when the 2nd half show started)

Hibiki defeating Makamou by playing Kamen Rider theme songs on them until they explode would be a hell of an anniversary premise, though.

That... actually sounds awesome. Now I'm sad thst Toei didn't take the Skyrider option and make the 2nd half an anniversary season.

KAMEN RIDER HIBIKI & THE SEVEN ONI

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/hibiki/movie1.png

"I've been the object
Of your affection
And I've been the target
Of your cruel intention"

-Ex Hex, "How You Got That Girl"

INOUE FOREVER.

I'm not sure what the bigger giveaway is that this this movie is an Inoue joint: the fact that the major emotional conflict is a huge-to-slight misunderstanding (we'll get to it) that could've/should've been resolved in the an initial meeting; the fact that the plot of this movie makes almost no sense; or the fact that every new character is a complete weirdo.

All of the above, if I'm being honest. Inoue's fingerprints, like his work, are not subtle.

I mean, I loved it, though, obviously. As a movie, it's fantastic. The story is a delight, the sort of straightforward adventure that the TV series had next to no interest in. The new Oni are hysterical, a group of absolute lunatics who are a thousand miles from the grounded workmen of the series. (I mean, Todoroki comes off as the normal one for this group. Todoroki.) The action is intense, with a finale on one of the Big Bads that's jaw-dropping for how it plays with Hibiki's formula. The costumes for the Oni and monsters are all garish, bigger and crazier than anything else in the series. Everything is just... bigger. Louder. More fun. It's a really great movie.

It's a shit Hibiki story, though.

Like, thematically, it is nowhere. The story is a pretty basic Overcoming Anger thing, an Inoue hallmark if there ever was one. It's all about Yuuji from Faiz WHOOPS sorry, I meant Kabuki, an Oni who resents being resented by humans, so he wants to be a Makamou. Meanwhile, Asumu In The Past blames Hibiki In The Past for either killing his brother or getting his brother killed, I'm honestly not sure which.

(This was an especially murky part of the plot for me. The movie treats it at first like Asumu thinks Hibiki killed Takeshi. Then we see the flashback, where Takeshi dies in an accident. After that, the movie seems to treat it like Asumu knew that Takeshi died by accident, but he blames Hibiki since it was on Hibiki's watch. No one ever directly tells Asumu, so... did he always know? Or not? Either way, while I can sort-of see Hibiki feeling responsible enough for Takeshi's ridiculous death to not defend himself, it is so very Inoue for a character to just let himself be hated for almost no actual reason.)

Much of the story is about Asumu getting over his resentment of Hibiki, something that Kabuki could never manage for humanity. That's the parallel. Except, that's literally all in the past. The present-day Asumu, he doesn't really learn anything. There's a moment in the beginning where Hibiki But Right Now gets injured defending Asumu But Right Now. After that, there's this possible thread of Asumu feeling guilty about Hibiki's injuries, but a) it's not borne out in the flashback story, and b) Hibiki But Right Now never once makes Asumu feel responsible. They don't even share another scene until the end. There's a bit of an echo to Takeshi dying, but... man, not really? Asumu's almost killed by a Makamou. Takeshi's killed by a mudslide. These are not comparable situations.

The bigger problem is that the Inoue theme of Overcoming Anger, the need to take revenge and put it aside... I don't think that's a thing that kids usually deal with on the path to becoming adults? For a series that's been 100% about the lessons a child needs to learn to become a man, this one... it's a fun theme to explore in a heroic action movie, but it's not super applicable to a teenager in 2005.

So, yeah, as a Hibiki story, I'm not sure this one even counts. It's just zero percent trying to work in the same narrative field as the TV series.

But, holy hell was it fun. Every single one of the new Oni were a hoot. They're all completely insane, even the Stay-At-Home Dad Oni. (You can tell Inoue didn't give a shit about telling a Hibiki story by the way there's an actual father in the story and it's treated as less relevant than the thief's quest for buried treasure.) They've got outstanding chemistry, enough for a show of their own. They feel individual, you know? They've all got different outlooks and expectations. I had a blast whenever they were onscreen. They're at least four levels too broad to work as Hibiki characters, but they're super entertaining for a movie.

The costumes, as well, A+ material but so wrong for the show this movie is supporting. They're massive and complicated and garish, so much so that the TV Riders look underdressed. (Ibuki, Hibiki and Todoroki are basically the Gaim Undersuit to the rest of the Oni's Kachidoki Arms.) But the new guys, especially Kabuki, I love it. The colors, the pageantry, it's so over-the-top that I can't take my eyes off of it. It's theatrical, which is thematically appropriate in several ways.

The story is nonsense, and I don't quite mean that as a complaint. There are a hundred things that don't make any sense within the context of what we learned in the series (Midori specifically tells us that Disc Animals were created recently), but since you could say that Asumu's putting some of his imagination into reading this story, I'll allow it. (Kid saw his name and was like This Story Is Clearly About Me And My Friends.) But the Makamou just, like, disappearing for centuries for some reason, to just suddenly reappear one day? And the sword falling into the sea, only to be waiting back in the cave? And just the whole supernatural power-up aspect of the sword (is it supposed to look like a fishing rod?), it's fundamentally not how this show does that stuff. It'd be like if... I was going to say "if a ghost showed up on Ex-Aid", but then I'm like No They Did That In A Movie, so you'll have to come up with your own analogy. It just all feels utterly random and unsupported, something the TV show worked so so so hard not to do.

And that's the weird tension of this movie. By raw entertainment standards, it's a success. I laughed a bunch, I loved the action, and the story had a compelling villain with a solid arc. (Something the TV show never managed!) But by the standards of Did It Seem Like A Hibiki Story, it's a massive failure. It seems almost contemptuous of trying to tell a story the TV series would tell, up to and including just setting the whole thing in the past with an entirely new set of characters. Both literally and figuratively, it puts actors you know into roles that are sort-of similar, while constantly reminding you of how it's wrong. It's uncanny valley Hibiki.

But I still dug the hell out of it. Inoue forever.

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/hibiki/movie2.png

A ton of fun is exactly how I'd sum up this movie. Just about every Rider summer movie is better off being a standalone adventure that vaguely encapsulates all the show has to offer. The Seven Oni just happens to forgo the part of feeling anything like the TV show, which to be fair, the TV show would proceed to do too at this point forward. This movie is a lot more straightforward an action movie than Missing Ace was (or like, any of the previous movies, actually), but that just means there's no weird plot threads or awkward decisions for me to get hung up on, so plus-plus.

Hibiki breathing fire right into that samurai-looking fellow's mouth, his showdown with Kabuki, all seven heroes consecutively performing their finishers on the big bad Makamou, and even shiny new action-figure Hibiki cutting down the big CGI monster are all basically ingrained into mind. It's incredibly entertaining the way a yearly tokusatsu in the summer should be. Just chew on some popcorn and watch things go pop.

Bet he immediately felt bad when the girl he decided was Akira got eaten really early in the story. "Whoops. Maybe I should have held off my casting for a little bit."

Yeah, it's a solid popcorn flick. Everyone's real fun in it, despite the fact that there's seething resentment and a high body count and a literal torch-wielding mob that hates our heroes. It's that Inoue thing of This Is Dark And Gross But So Stupid. It's an interesting way to tell stories, that's for sure!

His mom was cast as a hateful villager, so, uh... what in the hell is going on with Asumu?

Full disclosure, I've only seen the film once. Not because of the creative staff, though, just because it's a lot longer than a standard episode and I don't always have that much time to set aside. I remember liking it a lot, though. Like all the other Heisei movies so far, this one isn't canon to the series and it has some noticeable differences, especially in where the final form comes in. It's relatively close, though - no dystopian parallel universe here.

The plot is... well, it's The Seven Samurai with Kamen Riders. There's no way to really pretend otherwise, it's even in the title. It still works, though. It's a good basic story and it plays out really nicely to throw the Hibiki cast and some new guys into it. Add in some silly costumes (oh, Touki...) and a traitor and you've got yourself a really fun film.

It is with my eternal gratitude that this isn't one of those Alternate Ending films. I was honestly... not super looking forward to Inoue trying to craft an ending to Hibiki circa Episode 29. (Hilarious, since I'll be getting to see him end the actual series in about three weeks.)

But, nope, it's just a weirdo Seven Samurai lark, with the barest minimum of bookending with the actual Hibiki series. It's fun, and stupid, and barely trying to have anything to do with either the core narrative or the relevant themes of the show it's drawing from. But fun, though. Fun as anything.

Not much to say here. It’s one of those “and you were there” movies that’s a patiche of the Seven Samurai. What I can say is that there’s a theme to the new Oni in this film.

Touki (Freezing Demon) and his polar bear motif are a reference to the Hokkaido-Nippon Ham Fighters.

Habataki (Feathered Demon) takes his hawk motif from the Fukuoka SoftBank Hawks.

Nishiki (Western Demon) takes his motif from the Osaka baseball team Hanshin Tigers.

Kirameki (Glittering Demon) gets his look from the Nagoya Grampus’ image animal, the whale.

And Kabuki (Festive Demon) is the odd one out, but he’s meant to represent Edo, the entertainment capital during the era the movie is set in (now known better as Tokyo).

Also, can we talk about how they had rock guitars and trumpets back during those segments? At least the Disc Animals in the scene are classed as Karakuri (a robot made of wood, to put it in layman’s terms).