Well, I imagine it's not much of a coincidence he hasn't been seen for a decade :p

There were no more Kamen Rider worlds left to conquer! That's the only reason!

So I’ll be honest. On its own, I think this episode is okay. But I like how Ghost proper actually ties it in and makes it the actual appearance of the Newton Eyecon (the first in a tradition of bringing out one item from the next toyline at the end of the current one, which got followed by the Shakariki Sports Gashat, the Gorilla and Diamond Fullbottles, the Build Ridewatch, the Flying Falcon Progrise Key, the Peter Fantasista Wonder Ridebook and the Megalodon Vistamp).

It was good storytelling! Possibly helped along by less corporate oversight! (and did not make me late for work, haha) I also now appreciate how it tied into the Ghost series without watching Ghost again for it. Some mixed feelings about Ghost, I have them.

I don't remember this episode totally gelling together in a 100% smooth way, but the things I love about it, I utterly adore. And I mean, it's not like any of it is even outright bad, besides that accursed clunky edit of the theme song that was also used in the prior episode, which I still remember launching me right the heck out of the immensely emotional state I was in after seeing for the first time both the finales to a show that had been so engrossing for me over the course of a whole year.

But anyway, yeah, certainly a lot to commend about this one, especially considering it was the only episode of Drive that Nobuhiro Mouri wrote.

I think my personal absolute favorite thing about it is how it sets up the idea of Shinnosuke getting that one last miracle chance at transforming into Drive, only to have him make the choice to reject it. I'm not sure I can properly get across how immensely satisfying the lines "Even if I can't transform... Even if Mr. Belt is gone... I'm still a cop, and a Kamen Rider!" were and are to me.

First of all, "This man is a cop and a Kamen Rider!" was the show's tagline, so it's calling back to something that was a key part of the series from its very first ads, let alone the first episodes. And, going back to my whole personal connection to Drive, those trailers had me extremely excited for the show before it even started. So that was cool to see referenced in the finale. More importantly, that whole sentiment that it isn't a toy belt that truly makes Shinnosuke a Rider, that's something I always love seeing in superhero stories. It goes back to how many climactic episodes of Power Rangers I've seen that put the Rangers in a position where they still have to be heroes without, you know, Power, and I just think that's a great way to get to the core of what really makes characters of this sort inspirational.

In Shinnosuke's particular case here, one of the things I loved about him from the start was how his initial arc is all about him finding his drive to press forward in life again after getting stuck in a depressive rut, which I'm sure is an extremely relatable thing for a lot of people, and leaving the whole show on that last message from Belt-san – that it's never too late to get back up and Start Your Engine – I've always felt that was an extremely poignant resolution. (And coming after an episode that already had one of those, too! Drive really is something else!)

Oh, very cool! Thanks for the info!

I hope you enjoyed the brief window in this thread where I was enthusiastic about Ghost. The next two entries will... probably not be as celebratory.

Yeah, I really like how much of this episode is about the journey Shinnosuke's gone on in the last year, and how little of it is centered on the Roidmudes or the Global Freeze or whatever. He's grown as a man, as a cop, as a friend, and as a student. He's been so focused on the various cases that he hasn't really taken a minute to see the progress he's made. I feel like that's something we all could do more of, you know? Really appreciate the ways we're getting better as people.

Good episode.

Truth be told I was mean to this episode when it originally aired. Because at the time I was 13-14 years old and I wasn't at the right mindset to see the new hero. So, the entire episode just read to me as "How dare the new hero who definitely doesn't look as cool as the old hero style on him!"

But having watched Ghost and finding some appreciation for it, I do have to agree everything that's said here.

Does also remind that, in my opinion, Shinnosuke is still one of the few protagonists in Rider that feel "complete".

Yeah, I think this one plays a lot differently once you've seen Ghost. It definitely felt a little... disrespectful (?), on first viewing. Like, I'm trying to say goodbye to all of my Drive friends, and now I've got this floating weirdo - and Ghost - crashing the going-away party? No thank you!

But, in the aftermath, it's like... it's like Takeru and Yurusen showed up to help Shinnosuke move? They're just seeing him off, not trying to rush him out the door. I don't know. I was a lot warmer to this thing now than I was originally.

KAMEN RIDER X KAMEN RIDER GHOST & DRIVE: SUPER MOVIE WAR GENESIS

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/...hostdrive2.png
https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/...hostdrive3.png

Hard to believe a Ghost/Drive movie this inept and lazy came from a writer who a) never wrote anything for Ghost; b) never wrote anything for Drive; c) never wrote anything for Kamen Rider before; and d) never wrote anything for Kamen Rider after.

It’s the laziness that’s the worst part, I think. Ineptitude… I mean, it’s a crossover movie. Most of them are fairly inept. But the amount of stuff in here that no one even tries to justify is what keeps me from trying to find the good in it. There’s such a blatant disregard for the audience’s intelligence (and time!) that I’m honestly shocked. I disliked this movie the first time I saw it, and I think I might actually hate it now.

Like, they find Mister Belt in the bushes. What is that? What even is the point of that, beyond getting Shinnosuke back in a superhero suit with zero effort? It not only undercuts the end of the TV series, but they don’t… they don’t even do anything with the return of Mister Belt. Shinnosuke’s like Yay Team and Mister Belt’s like I Don’t Know You, and that’s all we get in the couple exchanges that bother to acknowledge their intensely personal bond. And then, for the finale, Krim’s just like I Knew I’d Be Needed For This Winter Crossover Movie But Also Goodbye Again Forever. It’s… someone worked on a Kamen Rider Drive series. They worked so hard to craft a compelling emotional arc for Shinnosuke, and a compelling emotional arc for Mister Belt, and a set of consequences that helped solidify their achievements and heroism. And then this movie’s like Nah.

All of the Drive stuff is pointless, except for maybe the Shinnosuke/Kiriko stuff, and even that’s weirdly diminished and compromised. The charisma of the actors helps the final hallway scene land, but it’s sort of shocking to have one of the most mature romances in Kamen Rider not really bother with a lot of dialogue for their engagement and wedding. And then there’s Team Roidmude coming back as one-note evil henchmen, Chase coming back as a hero just to die in front of Go again, the funny-but-irrelevant-and-also-very-long Kamen Rider Jun stuff… it’s weirdly insulting, as a Drive fan. I’d rather have never seen these characters again, if this is all I’m going to get.

The Ghost cast doesn’t fare much better. There’s a whole subplot about Rinna and Akari teaming-up to build a Wormhole Machine to rescue Shinnosuke and Takeru from the past… that just ends with Takeru’s dad using his magic powers (?) to open a wormhole and send them home. That’s how most of the movie is, plot-wise. Characters spend a bunch of time on something, and then it didn’t matter anyway. Stuff just keeps randomly occurring until the end credits roll.

That stuff’s mostly centered around Takeru’s feelings for his dad, and that’s another part of the movie that just didn’t work for me.

Takeru, especially at this stage in his journey, is a difficult protagonist. He’s whiny, mopey, impulsive, and tough to work with. Those attributes are by design, so that’s okay. But it means that you have to carefully calibrate the show around Takeru to make him a hero worth rooting for. He doesn’t have the easy charisma of Shinnosuke, or the humor of Shotaro, or the magnetic energy of Kouta. He’s a bratty teenager who wants to be a hero, and that’s off-putting for a lot of fans. But if you put Takeru into a show that’s trying to shape him out of those habits, and surround him with a cast that challenges him to be better, you get something really special.

So, of course, this movie splits Takeru off from his supporting cast almost immediately, and gives him a plot where he contemplates obliterating the future by changing the past, while filling in the gaps with him screaming at his past self to Get In The Belt, Takeru.

He’s massively unlikable here. The only Takeru scenes that worked for me are the one in the beginning, where he’s fighting the Ganma at the temple, and the one at the end, where he’s goofing around with Akari and Onari. The second one, in particular, is so good. It strikes this balance between Takeru as a callow teen, grumpy that he doesn’t have anything tangible to show for his time-traveling adventure, and the would-be hero who’s never going to stop trying.

Everything else is just Takeru screaming at Younger Takeru to stop being such a whiny brat who doesn’t appreciate his taciturn father and pointless hardships. (It’s maybe okay to just have hot water? In 2005?) And, man, the whole delayed I Knew You Were My Son All Along… no thanks? Dumb trope, and one that just ends making Takeru’s dad seem like a bit of a jerk. Takeru's dad waits until he's dying to tell his teenaged son that he's proud of him? Thanks for turning the emotional catharsis Takeru desperately craves into just another trauma!

Also! What in the hell is the plot of this movie, even?! Takeru’s dad uses his magic powers (?) to bring both his son and a random bystander into the past? For no apparent reason? And then sends them back to the present after they don’t defeat the villain? As he’s dying?

I sincerely, top to bottom, do not understand what the plot of this movie is. I don’t understand who’s responsible for setting the plot in motion, and I don’t understand how any of it links together. Worse, it ends up making every character in it look bad, creating a sub-par version of two shows I genuinely enjoyed. It’s relentlessly lazy, and tonally chaotic. The middle section drags, and the ending is a generic fight at Kamen Rider Quarry (which is now right next to Daitenku Temple). The early promise of Ghost and Drive teaming up to take down a Ganma Robber is tossed aside for a muddled story about Not Dwelling On Your Problems (or, as shown here, Action Is More Important Than Analysis, definitely an emotionally-responsible way of dealing with traumatic events), and a scene where a pre-adolescent boy is handed a sword and told to fight monsters.

That da Vinci Ganma design is an all-time great, though. Best movie suit, probably.

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/...hostdrive1.png

Ah, Movie Wars Genesis. On the one hand, they finally overcame the weird three-act structure. On the other hand... everything else.

I haven't seen this since it first came out, nor do I really want to, but the bit that stuck with me is Chase randomly coming back out of nowhere. My first Rider movie was the OOO/Fourze movie war, and Ankh coming back there... even though I'd never seen the show, I felt it was a big deal. I could feel the bond shining through in the writing. Here, though? Chase just walks in from off-screen, and is dead again because uhhhh his actor's contract covers the movie war. I don't like calling writing lazy, it feels like an easy catch-all excuse for everything, but in this case, knowing now this is the writer's only Rider contribution, it does feel they didn't do their homework.

It's the one smart writing-related thing in this movie, which makes it arguably more galling that this is the story they decided to tell with it.

Whenever I go to look up writing credits, it's only for one of two reasons:
-This Feels Like An Inoue Episode, or
-Why Is This So Bad
This movie was the second one!

This movie reminds me of Movie War Core with how off this entire affair was compared to the actual show.

I genuinlely can't fanthom why they brought a random writer who hadn't worked on Kamen Rider before or even after to make a crossover movie that notable for changing the entire formula of these movies. What makes this worst is if the Japanese wiki is to be believed the writer knew nothing about Kamen Rider when writing for this and that why they chose him to write the movie?!?

It really is the most glaring thing about this production given every past Movie War has brought back at least somebody who actually wrote one of the shows in the crossover.

This is without a doubt my least favorite Movie Wars/Winter Movie. I give Core a pass because it has the Skull Segment and as I have stated before, I love Skull.

That's the only reason Core makes it to second to last instead of dead last.

There are some things that frustrate my OCD. Like Drive using Rumble Dump in Type Speed to just, skip straight to Type Wild despite that not being how the form/tire change mechanic works entirely. Or transforming into Type Formula 01 directly from another form and I'm like "DRIVES ABILITIES DO NOT WORK LIKE THAT!"

So yeah, OCD, not so good.

Anyway, the Ganma Designs were cool at least.

It's perplexing! The actors are all trying very hard, but the material really makes it feel like no one on the producers' side really cared about what they were creating.

...but, man, the da Vinci Ganma is so good. I love the absolute stupidity of him shooting out Mona Lisa paintings. I love the Vitruvian Man gimmick being executed with floppy legs and immobile arms. I love the way the eyes on his chest move for his other Mona Lisa attack.

Everything about the da Vinci design is so surface-level and stupid-looking that it absolutely loops back around to being awesome. I genuinely wish they'd made a Figuart of him, instead of this weird knock-off some other company released.

So I've read more on the Japanese wiki and well according to that the writer orignally wanted the movie to be space themed but that was dropped in favor for time travel due to the budget. And that apparantly only 1/3 of the movies concept made it on screen.

And that when writing the script he's only had Drive to work with. And that despite Kamen Rider Specter being a thing the character of Makato wasn't created yet. And the actor even complained that it was hard to get a feel for the character as result when the movie filiming began around episode 5 and 6.

Also Einstein and Bebe Ruth were also going to be Gamma but were cut due to licensing issues.

https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%...82%B7%E3%82%B9

Kind of puts into perspective the possible production issues that comes with making these Movie Wars.

Which: this is why you don't give the winter crossover movie to someone who doesn't write for either show.

If you had someone from Ghost writing this movie (because it's about 85% a Ghost story), they could've written ahead a bit, knowing where the story would go with Makoto's character, with Alain's character (who doesn't have a line of dialogue in this movie, despite "debuting" as Necrom), with Takeru's character, etc. The script can help the actors understand where the series would be in a couple months, but only if the person writing knows where the series is heading.

I like this movie okay, but it's definitely one where I'm not ~that~ interested in refuting criticism of it. Actually, to throw my own on the pile, this is another movie directed by Osamu Kaneda, and I recall from the last time I watched it that it felt like stiff and boring Kaneda instead of weighty and visceral Kaneda, which definitely didn't help counteract how meandering the script can feel.

That being said! I always have really enjoyed Takeru and Shinnosuke's dynamic throughout it, and while I have to admit it bothers me that Toucon Boost Damashii and Tousan Damashii are technically separate things for no reason, I always have thought Zero Drive looked quite sharp. In general, I kind of like how the movie highlights how Drive is a tech-based Rider in contrast to Ghost, with Shinnosuke having to make due with Mach Drivers and old prototypes for most of the movie.

Mind you, I *still* don't know what Belt-san was doing in those bushes, even after all these years.

Well, the scene was set in 2005, so maybe he was on an adventure with the Hibiki gang and they just left him behind. For some reason.

Didn't like this either, and found it to be pretty forgettable, which is sad because it's Drive. But I did have 3 things to say that I liked about it however.

1. Shinnosuke using Deadheat with a Mach Driver, that was a neat thing
2. Zero Drive. I love my "emergency" forms, and this being a Black/Red repaint of Gold Drive made it all the better.
3. That scene of Shinnosuke putting his marriage ring under ground for Kiriko to dig up, I remember me and my brothers were watching this movie and we screamed like cavemen when Kiriko got the ring.

Yeah, there're a few dialogue scenes in the middle where I was like Are You Sure This Is How You Want To Shoot This. Boring blocking, dull panning, simplistic editing. The action scenes are decent, but a bunch of the slower moments are rendered lethargic.

I don't think I enjoyed the Shinnosuke/Takeru stuff as much as you did. I feel like (especially during Ghost's First First Act) Takeru needs a robust and stable emotional support system to keep him on track. Shinnosuke... like, he's trying to be there for this moody dead teenager, but he's also trying to get back to his girlfriend without irrevocably altering the timeline in the process. He sort of doesn't have a ton of bandwidth for Takeru's stuff with his dad. It's kind of charming in places, where you can see Shinnosuke thinking Do We Need To Do This Right Now, but I don't feel like the movie did enough with how different they were as people.

Very excited for 2025's Drive Anniversary V-Cin which definitely closes this loophole, and nothing else. 75-minute movie about how a talking belt ended up in a temple's bushes, please and thank you.

I'm hot and cold on how Shinnosuke proposes to Kiriko, honestly. I do appreciate the romantic pragmatism of Shinnosuke deciding that, since he could die in an upcoming fight, he wants to make sure Kiriko knows how much he loves her. But I wish there'd been more actual dialogue around this change to their relationship, to make it seem less perfunctory. The most we ever get in Kamen Rider romances is hand-holding and hugs (plus Go watching Chase die, continuously), so it would've been nice if something as adult as a proposal got treated with some maturity.

I honestly have no idea if I ever saw this movie or not. Nothing about it sounds familiar, but I don’t know if that’s because I skipped it or because it was just really forgettable.

KAMEN RIDER 1

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/legend/ichigou1.png
https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/legend/ichigou2.png

A while back, during the Decade thread, I’d ask people about how they came to TokuNation. What made them seek out a fan-site? What made them stop lurking, and start posting? I’d given bits of my origin story before: TFW2005, browsing Ex-Aid figure reviews, started watching Ex-Aid, eventually started posting for Ghost. But there’s a part that I’ve maybe never mentioned, even though it’s sort of obvious via the timeline. The first Ghost episode I posted about was Episode 24, which means the thing I watched right before I decided to start talking about Kamen Rider on TokuNation was this movie.

And it wasn’t because I loved it. It was because it made me so angry that I needed somewhere to put that anger. I need to exorcise the demons it put inside of me. I needed to reach out to other fans and go Are You Seeing This Too?

The only reason I’m posting on TokuNation is because I hated this movie.

Of course, it turns out to be an Inoue movie.

There’s something fitting in that, I think. Inoue making me so angry that I found a fandom, found a hobby, found friends, found a love for Inoue’s work. That’s really funny to me. Inoue led to me writing about Kamen Rider - forever - and it’s all because of this mediocre film.

On a rewatch, I don’t know what it was I hated so much that I needed to spend 2+ years writing about Kamen Rider. There’s plenty wrong with this movie, but it’s still inarguably better than the Ghost/Drive movie. There’s an emotional throughline, at the very least. The action’s great. I like the new Ichigou “Dark Knight Returns” suit. It’s a massive celebration of the themes of Kamen Rider Ghost, if nothing else. There’re positives.

Plenty of negatives, though!

It’s not really a Ghost movie, despite the presence of Takeru (and, to a lesser extent, Makoto, Onari, and Akari). It’s an Ichigou movie, from bell to bell. While I don’t truck with Showa, I’m not really opposed to a story that’s this focused on Takeshi Hongo. The idea of getting a One Last Battle story with the original Kamen Rider, with him having to grapple with the cost of his war on Shocker, the toll of justice, the people he’s let down, that’s all interesting stuff to explore. A story where Takeshi Hongo has to atone for his past has a lot of possibilities.

This isn’t that, though. It’s not really a movie where Takeshi learns anything, and that’s its main flaw. He exists as the platonic ideals of Heroism and Masculinity and Fatherhood. He’s challenged by multiple characters, but they all learn that Takeshi Is Always Right. His failing is that he hasn’t brought enough people up to his level, to understand his wisdom, and that’s all. He’s in this movie to be a stalwart and unerring example of How To Be. The arc of his story starts at Takeshi Is Awesome, and ends at Takeshi Is Awesome.

As a story, I can’t love it. I’ll concede that Takeshi Is, in fact, Awesome, but this movie literally never proposes an alternate viewpoint. Mayu has the strongest case against Takeshi’s awesomeness - what with him abandoning a teenage girl, both emotionally and financially - but the movie barely spends an entire scene with that rebuttal before Akari’s just like Sure, But What If You Forgave Him Right Now Instead. After that, it’s all Takeshi Is Awesome, all the time.

It’s one of those things where the movie is so adamant about celebrating the legend of Ichigou that it loses track of the narrative; any narrative. There’s a lot of setup for Nova Shocker, how they’re not just the same old world domination-obsessed lunatics as Shocker. Nova Shocker’s a business! Like, that’s a neat idea, making the Heisei version of fascism "Steve Jobs". (They even put the main villain in a turtleneck and jeans!) But then they’re blowing up Japan, and then there’s an all-powerful collectible, and then there’s nothing memorable.

The absolute best part of this movie is how Inoue wants to talk about Ghost’s themes of community and connection, but it ends up being a story where Takeru is just the rapt audience. He’s told a lesson, but he doesn’t… he doesn’t really learn it? He overhears it, and then he’s like Wow Takeshi Was Right. That lesson - that all life matters because we’re all intertwined - is huge for Takeru, and it sucks that this movie treats it less as something he fights to understand, and more a pearl of wisdom that’s been dispensed. It’s hollow.

And that’s my problem with this whole movie, really. It’s not doing anything for Takeru, beyond letting him bask in Takeshi’s awesomeness. The villains are all Showa guys, or Showa offshoots. The Eyecon is a MacGuffin, and there’s nothing tying it into the Ganma or the Royal Family or any of the plots from the Ghost series. Ichigou’s lesson is 1000% a Ghost lesson, but Ghost barely needed to be there for it. It’s a Ghost story that doesn’t have time for Kamen Rider Ghost.

Still, it got me to join this site, so I can’t be too mad at it.

Inoue Forever.

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/legend/ichigou3.png

It's hard to say why I enjoyed this movie... I just really did.

Maybe it was the vast amount of Spring Movies before and after that made me like it even more? Maybe it was me finally getting to see Grandpa Ichigo in true action? I'm not entirely sure. But I really dug it.

Probably my favorite of the "Spring" style movies since this still falls under the date. I'd say the best is now Super Hero Senki despite that being a summer movie? But despite Senki being a Summer Movie it carries the spirit of the Spring SHT Movies with how it goes about things. We'll get to there eventually though.

I remember having positive feelings about this one simply because it did not do the three-act structure (I never did manage to warm up to that particular storytelling method), but now I think I will not revisit it and instead keep my fuzzy memories, :lol

One of my favorite things about this movie is that they went to the trouble to create an Old Man Ichigou suit, and then (to my knowledge) never ever used it again.

One of my other favorite things about this movie is how they have Nova Shocker completely destroy the environment... which hides the fact that this Spring movie was totally filmed in the wintertime. All the leaves have fallen from the trees because of NOVA SHOCKER, not the planet's axis!

I mean, this is just my take! Don't let me stop you from re-experiencing something you enjoyed! Your enjoyment becomes my enjoyment, since we're all connected. I forget where I heard that, but I absolutely believe it.

Which is quite a shame because it was like my go to Ichigo suit for a while in terms of ones I liked. His modern tracksuit look does not jive with me in the slightest. So I was completely enamored when this beast of a suit first appeared.

Also for people who think it's too chunky, don't worry, the SH Figuarts would probably be your cup of tea then because it cuts back on the chunk.

THE CHUNK IS THE BEST PART!

I love the uniqueness of it, for a hero suit. It visually sells the idea that this an Ichigou that has accumulated scars, but can carry more weight. He's not some eternally youthful paradigm of justice; he's a warrior who has grown wiser from his sacrifices.

THANK YOU!

I'm so glad that I've found at least one person I've talked to that appreciates the chunk that is 2016 Ichigo!

We are all connected!!!

Yo this is a good analysis of suit design. I'm sitting here mentally comparing Takeshi Hongo to Steve Rogers. I feel like there's something to compare the two as icons of heroism with similar levels of strength. Takeshi getting bulkier because years wear on him, he's been fighting/learning for decades. Steve stays sleek due to comic time though.
Die, help me out here?

I can try!

I think it's also about how the suit helps communicate their mental states: Takeshi is someone who has persevered through the decades, while Cap is someone who skipped over history. Takeshi is, like, scar tissue, physically and emotionally. He's watched his world slowly change, in ways that left him alone. Cap is someone who just woke up and everything was different.

Cap's suit needs that continuity of design, because he's literally a man out of time. He's the exact same guy who punched Hitler in the face.

Takeshi's suit needs to evolve because he's become a different man than he used to be. He's not the adventurer of the 70s, doing cool bike tricks in a quarry. He's slower, bulkier, and his suit (and bike!) immediately communicate that. You look at that guy and instantly go He's Seen Some Shit.

I get what they were going for with Ichigo's suit in the movie, but I still think his best modern suit was the Super Hero Senki suit.

Haven't seen it, yet, so I couldn't say. I like the bold swing of this one, though.

Okay, this one I know for a fact I skipped. I was of the opinion, at the time, that I just did not feel like actively seeking out more Ghost content if I could avoid it. Not the last time I'd make that call, but that's a discussion for Die's next Watch thread.

good news, ghost isn't really in this one

i mean, there's some karaoke

he's definitely here for that

you can fast-forward through that part though

Maybe I'm just not understanding what you're getting at here, but I feel like you're massively underselling this.

Not only can one learn lessons via observation and listening to what others have to say, but that is something that is every bit as important as learning things the hard way. It emphasizes Takeru's' empathy, his ability to take in the feelings of those around him, and shows that he has a good head on his shoulders.

Not only is learning via the example of others important, but it's smart. So to say it's hollow, that it's not impactful, that just doesn't sit right with me. Heck, it's a skill that I wish more people would learn.

Anyway, I love this movie. The action is great, the celebration of both the first Kamen Rider and the franchise as a whole was wonderfully done, and the emotions that the movie was trying to convey really did reach me at many points. Even as someone who's yet to see all of KR-1 or even finish its manga, I got the idea, and the movie did well on selling me with his relationship with Mayu.

Probably my favorite anniversary movie up until Super Hero Chronicles came along and stole that spot.

Yeah, but it's dramatically inert. It's some real Show Don't Tell stuff, where it's more compelling to see Takeru struggle with something and have him come to his own conclusions, rather than have him just overhear Takeshi explaining the themes of the story. The end result is positive (I genuinely like the themes of this movie!), but the path to get there turns Takeru into a generic observer to Takeshi's story.

It goes hand-in-hand with the way this moral is introduced, which is Takeshi just straight-up asking Takeru if he's guessed the moral of the movie that's barely begun. We aren't in a story where Takeru is grappling with the ways people can benefit from the sacrifice of others; we're in a story where Mayu is. She's the one who actually struggles with forgiving Takeshi, and coming to terms with how he can still care for her while leaving to go fight Shocker. Takeru is just trying to save Japan from an evil corporation.

So, yeah, it's a bummer that this is a big moral that Takeru a) doesn't really have any skin in, and b) learns it like he's memorizing facts.

Can't say I agree. All throughout the film, Takeru isn't just dealing with Shocker, but is also doing his usual thing he does in his own show of helping others with their problems. Only in this case, it's Mayu and her issues he's focused on, and being an active observer to the entire affair lends to credence to not only him learning something as well, but also learning more about the people around him. To say he's just a generic observer feels really disingenuous to just how much he does through the movie.

Like, yeah, he gets bodied alot, and he very much isn't the main star of the show, but the small arc Takeru has is still there and is pulled off well enough for what it is. If you didn't get anything out of it, fine, but for me, it was something unique and nice to see in a show that I was otherwise just okay with, and something I haven't typically seen in superhero shows like, much at all.