But if that is the only way he can live, there are worse things to do than make them cry for a bit before clearing out the Phantom inside them and making sure they will never be targeted by Wiseman ever.

For most gates, their despair has to be initiated by something more than giving them a helping of insults. It can range from destroying an item, destroying a house, or killing another person. There's no way Nito would murder someone to get his fix.

Watched Episode 5 and 6 of Kiva. I just love the creatures his other forms are based on, and the 1986 storyline is great too. I like Wataru and Otoya. Nago is pretty sweet too.

I believe I am going to try go stop juggling and finish a series at a time right now. I am going to continue with OOO and move on from there.

That was a plot point in Nitou's introductory story arc, wasn't it?
That, since no Phantoms were being spawned, there's a finite pool of them for him to feed on?

Also, only Medusa can identify Gates. Not Nitou. Not Koyumi. Not Haruto. He can't drive them to despair because no one else can point them out to him.

Well then if he just avoids the ones he'll land homeless or have to murder for and just go for the ones who need items smashed he'll be fine?

He can just recon, find out who the Phantoms are targeting, work out how they are driving them to despair. Kill the Phantom, eat it then go drive the person to despair and take their mana.

Except it's only Medusa.
And she's Haruto's current target.

And your theory only works if Nitou is a complete monster, which he isn't.

Nitou driving Gates to despair goes against his moral code. I'm not sure if you're willing to endanger others' lives for the sake of your own, but Nitou is not. His conflict arises from the fact that he needs to consume Phantom mana to survive, and their finite nature means he can only survive for so long before Chimaera eats him. However, he cannot make Phantoms because it is against his moral code to endanger other humans for his own benefit.

I'll have to take your guys words for it, at the current point in the series I am Beast is still selfish and driven only by his will to survive.

I figured you had finished Beast's story arc. My bad.

Nope so far he's introduced his backstory (which was really cool), taken a trip inside someone and turned down Haruto's offer to cure him with vague homophobia.

Also known as the cure for everything.

Beast should've taken it.

Yeah but that is like totally gay or something, man.

The fuck am I watching, Cabin Fever?

Either way I'm watching an episode about Beelzebub and it's pure filler and really rubbish.

I actually quite liked learning more about Phoenix but he's so far been proven a completely rubbish villain. The hot headed, violence prone villain who gets himself killed because he doesn't think is such a tired cliché, especially when mixed with a whole 'every time you kill me I get stronger!' gimmick.

That's actually why I liked Phoenix.
The cold, calculating, stand around, never react, never emote villain (Medusa) is an even more boring cliche. While they're both generic villain tropes, at least Phoenix was interesting to watch.

And he had that bitchin sword.

I actually liked the Beelzebub arc. I think Haruto really develops as a character in this one. Beelzebub is my favorite Phantom, though the fact that he was a music conductor bothers me, given his Devil motif.

Stick around for the finale of this arc. You might be a bit disappointed, but... well, just stick around.

I liked Phoenix until he got killed in the same episode Haruto met Father Christmas and I just realised he really is awful.

I actually really like Medusa, although she is clichéd, she is also completely badass and isn't trapped by her gender. Most Toku I've watched never does much of a service to female characters but Medusa seems to have made it out okay.

Haruto hasn't really grown at all yet but that is okay, I hate this obsession with 'real heroes' which basically means they need to be useless and flawed. Haruto is an old school superhero, all about doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do. He also does that without steam rolling through everything to boredom levels like the Kyoryuger do, Wizard really strikes a good balance with an old school character like Haruto and I really like him.

The Phantoms in general have really bothered me throughout the series, normally their human forms have a much more interesting motif and personality than their Phantom forms do, with very few having any stand out abilities or attacks or even really designs. I dunno if it's just because it's HD but this show has some of the tackiest and cheapest looking suits I've seen.

Also, I'll wait and see how all this plays out.

So wait, she's actually treated with respect and isn't covered in hearts and pink and always stands pigeon-toed or with her hands daintily out at her sides and looks totally KAAWWAAAIIIIIIII and shit?

Then she's not actually a girl. I bet the twist is she actually has a weiner. Mark my words.

While I don't agree that "real heroes" are "useless and flawed" (and I don't think you really do, either) I agree that I just like heroic heroes more often. That's why Shotaro and Kotaro are my favourite riders, because like you described, they're heroic because they do the right thing. They could both be considered "flawed" but not in a way that ever impedes them, just makes them interesting. I don't think Shotaro's ever been outwitted or bested by an enemy because of his flaws, (i.e. his over-emotional personality, which I have a hard time labelling a flaw anyway) Black hasn't, so far, been bested by an enemy period.

Yeah. Medusa is nice in that she's not some kawaii chan or stripper.
I still find her to be a bore to watch.

Even Rinko, a female detective (which is not something easy to achieve in such a male dominated career), is portrayed as a ditzy damsel in distress and it really, really pisses me off. I find her characterisation quite insulting.

Sorry, I phrased that poorly, real heroes aren't useless and flawed but the way media writes 'real' heroes is by giving them flaws and having them regularly fail. It apparently makes them more human or some shit, for me it just makes them uninteresting to watch. I don't want my superheroes to have marriage problems or drug addictions, I come to these genres for escapism.

Boring is a word you use to describe everything in the series, I personally don't see it. Even in the worst filler episodes the action is fun, even in the worst filler episodes we at least learn one thing new about someone and honestly I think Beast made the series worse because now the plotting is really messy and unfocused.

That's because that's honestly how I feel.
It's not bad. It's not unbearable. It's not lame. It's not dumb.
It's just boring. I find the series running it's paces each week with a checkbook to make sure they get everything. Donut gag? Check. Gate who doesn't take the fact that there's a monster intent on killing them after them? Check. Make sure the Gate is as assholish as possible until the very last second to redeem them? Check. A brief plot exposition scene with Medusa, Wiseman, or Gremlin? Check.

There are twists. There are turns. There are moments where the plot gets interesting. But for the most part, it feels like I'm watching the same 2 episodes, but with a madgab-esque replacement for who and what.

Perhaps I have the complete wrong idea because I've been watching for 30 weeks, as opposed to a few days, so certain events seem a lot more drawn out and tired, but that's just generally how I feel.
I am going to finish Wizard, however. Dropping it at this point seems to be a waste.

I will admit the series is very repetitive but then again it's Toku, pretty much all Toku is repetitive and I find that if you don't love the characters, it's painful to watch in anything other than short bursts.

At least Haruto and Beast have a lot of different Powers to at least mix things up, even if they are basically mixing it up the same way every week.

The story focused episodes aren't repetitive though, since they widen Wizard's mythology and pencil in backstories, everyone has had a really interesting story so far and I really like the world and mythos of Wizard. But I'm a big fan of Urban Fantasy in general.

It just reminds me how, honestly, kind of fucking awesome Akiko was.

Yeah she had her damsel moments, yeah she was bouncy and squeaky and shit, but she actually racked up a lot of victories, and she was the boss. She gave Shotaro shit all the time for, like, being in debt and shit. If anything her cutesy bouncy routine was a front for her "I'll kick your ass"-ivity. She's the only token female hanger-on in every series I've seen who's first instinct when seeing a monster is to give it shit for being an asshole and smacking it on the head. It also helps that she didn't become Shotaro's love-interest, which I seriously expected. Yeah she fell in love with Ryu, but she earned her stripes in my eyes well before that. Besides, everyone deserves to find someone and be happy. It wasn't the defining aspect of her character.

I think only Hana is, obviously, more badass... until she became a child. She kicked ass. But most other series I've watched don't fare as well, like Hina perma-puppydog-eyes the hug machine from OOO being a total load on the plot, or Mana from Agito. "Soocheekuh". Yeah, that's about all there is to her. Also the weirdly distant and annoying lump of human being taht was... the girl from Kabuto. Never got her name, doubt it would've been important.

Black weirdly has no female lead. Yeah, there's female characters, but no constant supporting... anyone. Except BattleHopper. Is BattleHopper a girl?


This I get.

With the way you wrote that, it almost makes me want to pick W back up, but I just could not get into that series.

I did not like Akiko at all. I found her unbearable and annoying.

... I think that may have been the point.

Woah. Someone else who liked Akiko?
Sweet.
I loved her. Her voice was annoying, yeah, but her actions more than made up for it. The Sweets arc was what made me truly value her as a character.

It's really good. I'm not sure where you left off, but I recently started re-watching it with a friend who's started it and while I still like it, there's a lot of growing the series has to do. The monsters are sillier looking, the plots more abstract, more CGI and gimmickry. Not bad at all, but the series streamline's very quickly. Without spoiling in case you do decide, the only things I'm not a huge fan of are Accel early on. He's a very typical secondary rider. Angsty, brooding, clashes with the main character. He's mellows fairly quickly, especially once his first arc is complete, and they have fun with his rigidness later on.

I hated her when I first started the series, but as it went on I came to appreciate her as a character a lot.

I was on like episode 13 - 14, the big bad just revealed himself if I remember correctly with like some weird killer shadow, it all looked very silly, even for Toku.

My main dislike for the series was the action scenes didn't really fit with the style of show the rest of the series was going with, meaning I was never really convinced by W as a Rider and as if the show knew it didn't work as a whole unit, it seemed to put a lot more emphasis on the drama than the action which resulted in poor plotting, clunky fight sequences and some of the worst CGI I have ever seen.

It would have been fine as a Japanese Supernatural Drama show but I thought this was supposed to be a Japanese Superhero show? It barely felt like it.

You're on the list.

You're not though.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not about to start an Akiko fanclub or tatoo her face on my buttcrack. Just that as leading ladies go, she was a cut above the normal "Oh I'm only relevant to the story is the most basic of ways and never get involved in monster business unless I'm in danger watch me stand here and look worried all teh fuckign time."

I will admit, I think the writers intended for Akiko to be obnoxious and annoying, so we could better sympathize with Shoutarou. However, she did grow to be less annoying as the series progressed, and her interactions with Ryuu at the beginning of Kamen Rider W Returns: Accel was sweet, but I still found her annoying (although the scene where she realized that Philip was asked to play a girl instead of her was hilarious).

No it wasn't.

Seriously, be honest, a "killer shadow" isn't anywhere close to the regular silliness of Toku. Also it wasn't a killer shadow. If anything it was like fear gas. (the big bad is the terror dopant, and he releases that stuff to, well, cause fear in his enemies)

CGI aside (because yeah, W had some terrible early CGI, mostly because of how much it was used. Something I've come to realise carried over from Decade it seems) that's a complete crock of bull. W's fights scenes are awesome. The actual martial arts verses FX attacks is awesome, and the two are blended really well. The fights also happen logically and fit in with the plot.

In just about every KR series I've watched there's been a certain disconnect between the fight scenes and drama. Den-O and Agito had this pretty prominently. The heroes are always far away from the enemy or action literally until it's time to fight, with Den-O literally being dropped off and Agito having nothing at all to do with the plot until he needed to fight. W actually had the heroes be in the plot. The investigation side of things meant that the heroes were always mixed right in with the enemy and their motives, rather than gardening half the episode or lazing around in a trian car or diner.

I'm not saying you have to like it, but your reasons for disliking it are pretty flimsy, especially when you compare it to other toku, which just kind of makes your arguement fall apart when W does all these Toku tropes better than how they usually are.


Really, because how is saving lives and fighting monsters not superhero stuff?

Again, since you want to, compared to past series W's more of a superhero than most. Specifically, he's a very Batman-style superhero. He fully focuses on the enemy and problem, devoting all his effort to it and being almost constantly "on the trail," instead of just standing around talking about the problem, or not, until it's time to fight.

You know how in Power Rangers the Rangers would spend most of their unmorphed time at school or their lives or stuff, only really dealing with the monster when it's time to morph and fight? That's how a lot of KR series seem to me. When not fighting the hero is dealing wth his own problems and his own life, not working to defeat the enemy the whole time like in W. There is no disconnect, no forgettable subplot while we wait for the next fight each episode. W's always fighting dopants, even when he's not. That's more superhero to me than a coffee break or tomatos for sure.

No it wasn't? Wasn't what?

And I meant his suit design, one of the least threatening looking villains ever, he looked absolutely ridiculous.

Well awesome in your opinion, I thought the fight choreography was really bad, it had no sense of motion and no fluidity, it was more akin to the brawling of an 80s action film than the kind of martial arts stunts I've seen elsewhere.

I'm not much of a KR guy so I can't really comment on others but all other Toku I've watched the heroes of the show are specifically designed to fight the monsters, here the heroes just kinda stumbled into their fights.

Because the life saving and monster fighting was a very small portion of the show. I would have liked more action, less Scooby Doo.

Kamen Rider W gets better as it goes along. I was hooked from the beginning, and it only got better (until the very last episode, which felt tacked on). If you don't like it, that's fine, but I don't think it's fair to judge it on the first 13-14 episodes.

The killer shadow.

Oh pfft, why didn't you just say so? Yeah, he does look kinda silly, because of his headdress. (which does something pretty cool, though) But the final villain design is incredible, so I can forgive him.

The fact that he used more than two different moves already puts him above most Toku.

And unlike most series, the gimmick really improves the fight scenes. The switching of halves and mixing of powers really makes the fight scenes fun to watch in a way I can't describe because I can't honestly believe anyone couldn't understand themselves.

Yeah, that's BS. I don't even see how you could say W "stumbles" into fights so I can't even argue it because it, well, nonsense.

Again, this is just false. W has just as much action as any given series. It has to, because they're always getting themselves in trouble because of the so-called "Scooby-Doo." Yeah, maybe if Scooby-Doo turned into Bruce Lee every time old man Wilken's showed up dressed as Leatherface.

And again, better than the heroes just sort of hanging around when not fighting.

Eh, I think that's fair. Again, I'm not saying he has to like it, or watch it. (why waste time watching something you don't like?) But his reasons are kind of BS. Calling it Scooby-Doo and saying the hero "stumbles" into battle is, well, nonsense and I'm sure he knows it.

That is over quarter of the series, enough time for a trilogy of films, how is that not enough to judge the series? If they can't get me hooked in that amount of time there is no hope.

I hope it was all would imply all of him, I guess not.

I will admit after trying out Kiva, I will at least give it to W and its gimmick. Both it, and Wizard, manage to be a lot more interesting by having a range of different moves. I tried to get into Kiva but after the fifth episode I'd seen the same fight scene about ten times.

I don't see how it is nonsense? In that point of the series I got to, it required plot convenience and a huge amount of forced writing to get W into the action. It was very weakly written.

Wizard has had heaps more action than W had so far.

That's your opinion, and I can respect that. Personally, I like to see things through until the end.

I never see the point in watching something you dislike all the way, there has to be a moment where you say enough is enough.

No arguement here. I suffered through twenty episodes of Kabuto, and nearly all of Agito because people told me "they get better."


I never watched Kiva. Wasn't my thing.

That's all I really said about it.

It wasn't, though. W's job is to track down and fight dopants. That's the premise of the show.

That was the Sweets arc, wasn't it? That's when Terror made his big-headed debut and Akiko went undercover to expose the Dopant? W was scoping the mansion the whole time, knowing a Dopant was there. How the hell is him waiting for the dopant and thus fighting it once it revealed itself contrived when that's, ugh... bro, you're not making a whole lot of sense here. I get why you'd think the villain looked silly (because he did, and stuff happens that sort of, I guess explains that? Again I don't want to spoil in case anybody else is watching W and reads here) and some shit, but a lot of what you're saying just doesn't hold up, especially with your "All the otehr Toku I've seen." I mean, let's just say for the sake of your arguement it's true, maybe thats not a bad thing? Maybe when there's so much out there that's so similar, something different is refreshing and cool?

Again, you don't have to like it, but not even being able to understand why anyone would like a show about a hero who solves crimes and beats his enemies without just punching them a lot and focuses on helping people as much as he does fighting badguys, that seems a bit narrow-minded.

Good for Wizard.

However it sounds as though the plot has taken a bit of hit.

In all honesty, I don't always adhere to that belief.

That really should be used only if someone has reservations.

Like if they say "oh I like this show's premise/characters/specific aspect but it's not that good" then maybe I'd recommend sticking it out. But if they say "I don't really like this/this isn't for me." Well, watching the whole thing won't change that.

Because at that point in the series, they were only just stumbling across who was behind the Memory selling on the streets that was turning people into Dopants. The first ten or so episodes were largely completely throw away and as stuff started to come together I just couldn't be bothered any more.

Rescue Force is my kind of different, otherwise I'll stick with my focused Toku.

Huh? I never said you can't like it, I'm just saying this is my reasoning for disliking it, whether you wanna call it BS or not.