This reveal bothers me so much because it feels like it was written by someone who watched the early Heisei era, watched Decade, and then just didn't watch anything else after that point. The idea that every Kamen Rider series takes place in a wholly isolated universe* is not how Kamen Rider had worked for an entire (lower case) decade by this point. Now, personally, I've always been of the view that Decade merged all of the older worlds together in the end; that's just personal head canon, though, and I don't mind if the show doesn't follow it. What I do mind is that there have been multiple occasions since then that have explicitly shown that every show** since at least W takes place in the same world.

Now Switchblade, the devil may advocate, many of those crossovers happened in movies and Kamen Rider movies have always had fairly tenuous relationships with their shows. Many are blatantly not canon and the team-up intensive ones, in particular, are often completely divorced from the show's narrative. That is a fair point; you could probably make a convincing case that something like, say, GoRiders may not have really happened in the main Ex-Aid timeline. In response, though, I would point out that many of these films are, again, explicitly canon to the shows and elements from them absolutely turn up on the series proper. Also, Haruto was on an episode of Fourze. Takeru was on Drive. This is not the 2000s again, where the closest we ever got to crossovers were an HBV and the one Den-O movie that even Den-O ignores. It is patently absurd for Zi-O to start its endgame with "So there are 19 separate Kamen Rider worlds..."


*Build notwithstanding.

**Build still notwithstanding.

So, stuff happened, and now Zi-O has become Decade Season II.

Now, I'm not against Rider taking place in different worlds, since some of them don't quite fit into a specific timeline, but Zi-O set itself up as a time travelling story, and as Die mentioned, you can't do both, or at least not like this.

To be honest, I don't remember much at all about last episode other than Woz being a hero, they finally beat Eternal who gives a thumbs up, and Aqua dies. So I'm moving on to this episode that I also don't remember much on.

It's this final arc where Zi-O starts to slowly fall apart, sure you could say it's the Decade arc, but I also feel like even that could have been done better. Swartz isn't a really good villain, and it just becomes something of a mess overall. It doesn't feel like an Anniversary plot (despite how much it leans into that territory) nor is it really helping the Zi-O plot, which makes the bridge between the endgame and finale a bit of a slog.

*rolls up sleeves*

This is a real Personal Preference type of thing, but I've never liked plots that are about a villain tricking a hero into getting super-powerful -- more powerful than even the villain -- and then somehow stealing that power and securing total victory.

It's the "somehow" that always drives me up the wall. If you're powerful enough to steal that hero's powers, why do you even need them in the first place? And what if you aren't powerful enough to steal the hero's power? Aren't you just creating your own defeat?

It's so dumb.

So, predictably, I'm gonna push back a little on this.

I think the problem isn't that Decade Is Bad, it's that Decade and Zi-O have two different central metaphors that their story structure is built to support. Decade's a show about trying to fit in and discover your potential, so it makes sense to do that in a multiverse. Zi-O is show about making the best decisions each day to ensure you reach the best future possible, so it needs to be a time travel show. (Obviously, the themes were likely decided after the settings, but work with me here.) (Also, there's another very specific thematic thing Zi-O is doing that I'll talk about in a few days.) If you start mixing a multiverse story with a time travel story, you're handicapping yourself thematically in a way that's totally unnecessary.

His plan might be ridiculous and nearly impenetrable, but I think Swartz has real presence as a villain.

CURSE YOU, SWARTZ!

Yeah, I can forgive a lot of Time Nonsense if the character beats still land and the actors are given something meaty to work with. (Like, please get along with Yuuto.) Here, it's just Woz going TIME DISTORTIONS a bunch and Sougo learning things we all learned weeks ago, and that's lame. The best bits of characterization were between Diend and Decade, and they are guest stars. Not great!

This all just feels like a needlessly convoluted conclusion. If we're dealing with twenty divergent timelines instead of twenty alternate Earths, I don't know that that's a better, more thematically coherent plot? This was a show that did its best work in the present; by grounding existential dread and crushing guilt in moments of support and catharsis; by cutting through the four-dimensional knot of causality with a keen view of real emotions. It landed its The Villain Is Bringing In Villains From Formerly-Doomed Realities story on a poorly-socialized grim executioner who wishes he'd been nicer and more honest with his best friend. I know this show can get out of its own way to make memorable stories out of its weird collection of Time Nonsense, because I've watched it do it. It's frustrating to not be able to see them do it here.

I never ever ever want to rewrite a show I'm not liking. I feel like the only fair thing to do is confront the art you've been given, not the art you wish you'd been given instead. If you want, that's what fan fic is for, and plenty of people make great art in that field. Don't criticize a show for not doing the story you wanted them to do.

However.

I briefly thought the beginning of this show was setting up Swartz bringing every Heisei finale into Zi-O's time, and I thought that was brilliant. Making the anniversary guy defeat every Big Bad, in nineteen overlapping apocalypses? What an endgame!

Instead, it's a bunch of random monster suits and a neat cameo, the end. Not as fun for me, and that sort of tainted my enjoyment.

Ha ha, really? That's neat! I hope my weird thoughts about Ghost helped provide some distraction from this show's rapidly disintegrating clarity.

The Sougo/Tsukuyomi plot in this one is such a bummer, and kind of emblematic of this endgame's shortcomings. It's a plot that could've given us some new insight into Swartz, or Tsukuyomi, or Sougo, but instead it just regurgitates information we already knew and barely allows our heroes to push back in any meaningful way, because there wouldn't be any point. It's an entire episode that strands the two most invested characters in a narrative cul-de-sac.

It's an incredibly distracting detail in Swartz'z convoluted plan! It would be like if Geiz casually mentioned to Woz, mid-fight, that he'd returned from the future where he'd learned that every Rider ever was also a Sentai in disguise. You can't just toss that stuff at the audience and not expect way too many questions!

The thing that makes it not really a Decade arc, in my mind, is that it misses the demonizing of the hero, and for good reason. Tsukasa had a core group of people who supported him (and Kaito), but he was tasked with destruction by the universe. He was viewed with suspicion and fear by other Riders. Sougo was never that kid, nor should he be. The point of him is to be the opposite of Tsukasa: a kid whose optimism and empathy convinced total strangers to give over their power.

You can't do a Decade arc on Zi-O just by trying to convolute an impossible choice for Sougo and having a bunch of multiverse stuff show up. It's not really sufficient?

So ZI-O has Became Decade Season 2.

People are definitely saying that, but, boy, I really don't see it? I mean, yeah, Decade's in it; and, yeah, Tsukasa's just come to the conclusion that he needs to destroy this world, but that all feels almost incidental to what's really happening within this story. You could just as easily say that the series began as Build Season 2, if that's the criteria.

It's... I don't want to use the word "dismissive", because I think this thread's already had a discussion over how many assumptions that word makes. But it's reducing an intensely complicated set of shows into a few obvious signifiers, and I think that's weirdly disrespectful to the complexity of both shows, and what their creators were trying to say.

I mean, I don't love what's going on in this show right now! It's not fun to watch! But I don't feel like it's become Decade any more than I feel like it became Blade or Den-O or whatever. The problem is that it's lost its characters amongst plot machinations, and I don't remember that being a huge Decade problem?

(Maybe it was! I legitimately don't remember! I don't retain this stuff super great!)

Like, the key thing for Decade was Tsukasa feeling manipulated by the universe to be something he didn't understand, in a way that might disappoint the people who believed in him. Metaphorically, it was his ability to define himself being removed. We may yet get there with Sougo, but I don't think he's trapped into one action in the same way. He's got choices, even if they don't make a ton of sense. His metaphorical struggle is inherently different than Tsukasa's. He's not someone looking for a place to belong, or a world that'll accept him. He's trying to figure out how to avoid becoming a person he fears. His choices here are about how he can use his power to protect people, rather than accrue power for its own sake. It's two different things?

And, sure, the worlds are colliding at the end of Zi-O! That's a little familiar! But I just can't see it as more than this show scrambling for an apocalypse when it really wants to talk about people.

I meant finishing plot threads from Decade into this show.

Even then... I don't feel like it is? Any more than Tsukasa randomly showing up in any other series or event was continuing those plot threads? This is just, like, his deal. He shows up, everything goes sideways, he Gets The Gist, victory. He's more active here than I'd maybe like (especially in this episode), but the narrative is still fully centered on Zi-O characters.

This is fair, if it's just the plot of villains stealing heroes' power being inherently questionable to you. Though to be fair, this IS Kamen Rider which'd mean, Sougo is only a human if he doesn't henshin and had his belt only, and Swartz can take the upgraded belt that contains Ohma Zi-O power while Sougo's in his human form or something. The part of not being powerful to steal the hero's power, that's quite the cliche downfall for villains that has this plot, and that's probably often done to show how arrogance and superiority complex will be your undoing.

True, like hating-Sougo-for-not-being-Tsukasa (as in, 'Tsukasa entertains me with that toxic and charismatic presence, but fuck Sougo for not giving that what a terrible character!'). I do prefer if the subjectivity is known like this, but many cases have people dictating what is good taste (such as praising what's generally liked and bashing what's generally hated), and have the ones who aren't like that being attacked. By that too, people can go apeshit for being told to acknowledge subjectivity or even just someone else who takes more out of it trying to defend and explain something they bash.

To be fair though, there are no fixed rule for time travel because it's not something that can be achieved in real world, at least so far, and probably that the truth about time travel is, something that was revealed by Aqua before about how the past would never be changed like many time travel depicted it. Other than Decade doing disparate realities, Den-O was the one that did time travel story though, and despite that series' popularity, the plot is considered as its main weakness.

It's a nice development for someone in that team to investigate the wild claim, but you somehow didn't complain about how Team Zi-O was permanently reactive? Because being reactive is often a criticism for heroes, and that characters like villains often are seen to be the one who is active and makes the plot thus they're the ones inherently more interesting. But then again, we all know that Swartz is the active one and the one who made Zi-O plot, but he's poorly received for a good reason. So that should break the claim that villains are always better for being 'inherently' active and plot maker.

Other than how it's meant to show Swartz's comparison to Tsukasa. Swartz's goal is a twisted replication of Decade's story (and what'd happen if Sougo chose to do nothing, as the other options are killing Swartz and making his friend vanish, letting Swartz win, or becoming Ohma Zi-O). In Decade, Tsukasa's powers were unwittingly fusing the A.R. Rider worlds with his which will destroy them all thus he needs to destroy the A.R. worlds, Swartz is willingly and forcefully fusing every world except his into one so he can destroy it. At the end of Decade's story, Tsukasa let himself be killed after he killed every Rider so a unified world could be born with all the dead Riders revived, Swartz simply wants to save his world to rule it and is willing to do anything to accomplish his goal. Tsukasa had his sister being his anchor, who had been corrupted to fight for Dai-Shocker. While Swartz's treatment of Tsukuyomi, redundant to convey it here already!

He even contrasts Kaitou too. Kaitou broke away from an authority position to escape the controlling influence of his bullying big brother, while stealing only unique, irreplaceable objects from every dimension he visited as collectibles. Swartz chose to stay in his position of authority, taking away the unique powers of the Heisei Kamen Riders to advance his plans. And he's the one who's bullying big brother instead of the one who got bullied, manipulating Heure and attempting to murder Tsukuyomi. As Another Decade, Swartz summons Dark Riders that appeared in the various Kamen Rider movies while Kaitou's world is based on Blade's movie.

I don't think that Alpina is actually more powerful, actually, and I do think that this plot is redundant to show to the audience, but this is done to show that Swartz's claim to be well-intentioned to save his world by destroying the other ones are bullshit, not bullshit as in about how convoluted it is, but about how he's just self-serving beneath his 'noble' claims, of which Sougo apparently exposed him here by asking the scenario if Alpina is more powerful than him (A̶l̶p̶i̶n̶a̶ ̶W̶a̶t̶c̶h̶e̶s̶ ̶>̶ ̶S̶w̶a̶t̶c̶h̶) then of course Swartz would go apeshit instead, which shows that Swartz only cared about being superior to his younger sister, but obviously we all already know Swartz is a depraved SOB and this plot is not necessary to show that further.

Regarding Chase part, it's actually a consequence of the world merging, as Chase comes from the new timeline where Drive doesn?t exist, but he still has his memories pre-Drive Watch and they are bubbling to the surface because time has been completely screwed up. As when Another Riders were defeated, the original Riders temporarily regained their memories. Then when Sougo obtained the Watch, the Riders would lose their memories again.

I don't know if they did bring up Heisei finale at this time but different from what you suggested, like how here, the worlds are merging with every Ridewatch that breaks. In succession, the Skywall from Build, complete with Clone Smash and Guardians. Then Roidmudes of Drive appear, lead by an Another World Mashin Chaser. Then the Fuuto Tower and Yggdrasill Tower of W and Gaim appear, causing Masquerade Dopants and Elementary Inves to appear. Then the Mirror World of Ryuki merges with Earth, causing the sky to be filled with Mirror Monsters. Finally, the GrandZi-O RideWatch fades, and by then, OOO's, Fourze's, Hibiki's, and Kabuto's realities have also fused. That's how the stakes are done in the worlds in Zi-O, the culmination of the various paradoxes that have happened over the course of the series, unsealing the powers and history in said previous Rider series but not the Riders, that forces Decade to destroy the world.

If you refer to Masamune, I wonder what position/occupation someone takes that you think the ones that are suitable to take over the world? I mean, being a CEO is about having the position where the company is under their control, and suitably, Masamune is a huge control freak, he wants to control more than only his own company, but everyone's fates as well. So he uses Kamen Rider Chronicle to get as many human lives under his control as possible. And Kamen Rider is a world with superpowers, so it's possible that it's what the worst type of depraved CEO want to do if they actually have superpowers.

I think I've mentioned it before? It wasn't a huge problem earlier in the series, since the various anniversary elements and character arcs ate up a bunch of screentime, creating a very entertaining show. The problem of all that reaction comes now, when the characters are basically being spun around by a villain for six straight episodes.

It hasn't been demonstrated, but I'm pretty sure Swartz outright says that he stole Tsukuyomi's powers and memories because she was more powerful than him.

KAMEN RIDER ZI-O EPISODE 48 - “2068 - OMA TIME”

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God, what a reversal.

One of my favorite episodes of this entire series, maybe. It’s beautiful, and smart, and sad, and triumphant in its encapsulation of everything this series did well.

The thing about all of these apocalypses that Kamen Riders work year-long to avert is that they don’t matter, honestly. The point isn’t the scale, or the intricacy of the plotting. They’re just a framework to build and explore characters, or to present themes and morals. Whether it’s a massive black hole or an invading army, it’s all beside the point. Fun to watch, but minor in comparison to what these shows are really for.

The point of the endgame is to tell us how it’s affecting our heroes. The specifics of what’s at risk, or what might be required to save the day. A bunch of Legend Mooks attacking Tokyo for two straight episodes is just plot, and I care less about plot than I do about characters. I want to know what this all means to Sougo, and how he views himself amongst all of this chaos.

God bless this episode. The details of Swartz’z mad scheme fade to the background, thankfully, as we spend the moments before the end finding out how Sougo will finally respond to the choice he was given episodes ago. Swartz presented him with three outcomes to choose from, and Sougo spent two episodes paralyzed by them. All of them required people to be sacrificed, or they solidified a terrible future. Here, we see the culmination of a year’s worth of character development, as Sougo realizes the one weapon that neither Swartz nor Oma Zi-O can match: his friendships.

It’s perfect, that message. The irony of a show about a boy who was destined to be king, saving the day by delegating and cooperating, is delicious. The fact that Trinity Form was how Oma Zi-O could be bested, because Oma Zi-O never had friends… I love it so much. It takes the four dozen little moments with these characters and forges them into a weapon capable of battling a god. It all feels like the best reward possible for people who emotionally invested in this show, because it’s explicitly about the inevitable value in connecting with people, how the future becomes brighter if we’re all there together. It’s everything Sougo ever said about making a future for everyone. Oma Zi-O only made a future for himself, and look how he got beat.

It’s the smartest thing, in an episode with a million smart Sougo moments. I love him getting one last pep talk from Uncle, and trying to hide the pride he felt from Uncle suggesting that Kamen Rider Zi-O protected people like a king. I love him stunning Tsukasa with a bittersweet embrace of a destined sacrifice. I love him giving Tsukuyomi the chance to be the hero she already was, but in a much more marketable form. (I’ll echo everyone I’ve ever seen in the SHF thread: Kamen Rider Tsukuyomi when, Bandai?!) I love how this whole episode is about people realizing that connections and empathy matter more than Time Nonsense.

Everyone in it gets a cute moment or two, but I adore how tightly this episode plays like Sougo’s Last Day On Earth. The weight of all of this insanity is worth a million times more than an explanation of said insanity, and I’m glad this show finally remembered that.

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