I don't hate Kiva.

I just rather intensely dislike it. :p

I was talking about Switchblade, I was saying you shouldn't listen to him.

"Dai-chan" is Rook

and yeah Otoya is awesome.

Pretty much all of this.

Adding that the movie itself was just an absolute bore and it painted Eternal as an ungrateful bitch, yeah. It didn't win me over, either.

I know the point of Skull was for him to be surrounded in mystery, but his portion in Movie War Core could have honestly filled an entire movie itself. It was disheartening learning one of the lamest movie Riders ever was getting a movie (When you're making KR Kabuto's Caucasus look like a character with depth, then something is wrong).

Oh right lol, well I have first hand experience anyways. Maybe it 'gets good' later on but me and Split Lip discussed in length about how much we hate that statement a few pages back.

Kiva is a series that was pretty much carried by Otoya in the 1986 segments.
In all honesty, watching Otoya was the entire reason why I continued with Kiva. So, imagine my annoyance when he's toned down and tries to woo a particular woman, eventually winning her over (Because this is a major plot point, I won't spoil who it is, should you ever decide to actually finish Kiva).

I hate how "It gets better later" is wantonly thrown around, but there are a few series where it's legitimately true (Fourze, Blade, probably Wizard).

My main problem with the five or six episodes I think I watched is that the fighting was really bland, but the show was also so hard to follow I couldn't get engaged anywhere else either.

For all of Kuuga's many, many problems it easily has the best characters out of any Rider series I've watched and I'm realising more and more as I get older that I'm a big lover of characters who are a big factor for me between liking and disliking a series.

In the episodes of Kiva I saw, there was a dude who was obsessed with varnish and two chicks who fought monsters. I don't even remember anyone else, so that says a lot.

Also I know I'm in the minority here but I really really have loved Wizard practically all the way through, there have been some throwaway arcs, some awful characters and these later comedy episodes are kinda crappy but man the universe, the lore...the battles, Haruto! I love that shit.

I thought we already established you were the minority when it comes to liking Haruto :lol

Anyway, to be fair towards the two women in Kiva, they aren't just bit characters. They both remain important characters throughout the series.

Kiva's fighting style itself is rather bland. It wasn't going to set the world on fire because he just fights so...boringly. Even with his 5 other forms (Which, outside of his final, go painfully underutilized), he's just a boring fighter.

I think Haruto is one of the best Riders of the entire Heisei era, not just the post-Decade stuff.

I'll have Haruto all to myself <3

Yah the badass chicks were kinda cool at first but due to the convoluted and slow storytelling I was so confused by who they were I couldn't appreciate their fighting.

And yeah, I feel like I probably shouldn't have watched Wizard first (I mean I saw series before it but the only one I saw in its entirety was Dragon Knight), although none of Wizard's forms exactly set my world on fire he's just such an extremely flashy fighter (I mean serious he turned into a dragon mech and kicked a guy...INTO THE SUN!) that pretty much makes everyone feel extremely bland in comparison. I mean I'm basically forcing myself to find reasons to enjoy Kuuga's battles and I probably would have have done the same for Kiva if I actually enjoyed what was going on around him.

Out of the series I've seen, I'd probably rank him just above Tendou, and below Shinja.
I still like Kazuma over most others (I'm flip flopping on whether he's my favorite or not, though).

I know, but I'm with Matrix, there are times where it is legitimate. Personally, when I say "it get's better later" in Kiva's case, I by no means thought the beginning was horrible. Same with Wizard. I just don't think people should drop a 50 episode show 5 epiodes in, just because "it wasn't perfect" in 5 episodes, a show hasn't established everything yet, if you establish everything there, then you're going to have much less material to pad out a 50 episode series. I completely understand SPLIT LIP giving up on Kabuto, because he gave it a fair chance (he wtched up until the mid 20s I believe). In you case, I would say give Kiva a shot after you've perhaps gotan a few more Rider series under your belt (no pun intended).

I think Haruto is ok, I just watched the episode where Infinity is introduced (I'M SO BEHIND!) And he had some very good moments there. When they said "people are going into comas" I thought of how people who get attacked by shadows in Persona 3 are found unconscious afterwards. Legion also kind of looked like Legion from Mass Effect, which I found funny. Beast Hyper's introduction was cool too, I'm liking Nitou more. The journey to catch up on Wizard continues!

Really? I like Kiva's fighting stance. I think perhaps one reaon why it's so bland is because, from what I understand, the Kiva suit is very heavy, isn't it?

I guess since I've tried out other series, finished Wizard and am about half way through Kuuga I can give Kiva another shot, like give it ten episodes to impress me.

There are a lot of shows that do get better later.
I think the one show that gets worse, later on, from what I've heard, is Hibiki :lol

But I do agree that watching only a few episodes might not do the show justice.


I like his stance, yes, but his actual fighting is clunky and dull.
Yeah, the Kiva suit is heavy (Hence the Emperor Form spam later on), but his fights should have been better.

I think that's fair. I've just heard people give up on shows after the first episode.

That sucks...I'm going to watch that after Ryuki...

Clunky...like the suit...but yeah, perhaps.

I gave it five or six episodes the first time around, I was overwhelmed by the weird glossy enemies, shit CGI and general wackiness. Not to mention convoluted and difficult as all hell to follow storytelling.

Kiva looked cool as fuck though, I loved his Rider Kick and badass ladies.

If you're gonna hold that against Kamen Rider, you might as well stop watching now :lol

Anyway, Kiva's Rider Kick, the Darkness Moon Break, is flipping awesome. Probably one of my favorites.

Yeah but this looked especially bad. It was a castle...that came out of a building...that was also a dragon. It sounds cool but I felt like I was playing an N64 game when you saw how they realised it, couldn't they have at least got the proportions on the castle right so it didn't appear to be changing size from scene to scene?

I didn't find it hard to follow, it just takes some getting used to because of the whole 2 different storylines thing.

Oh yeah...Come on Bandai...SHF normal Kiva...

This.

Oooh...I love the Darkness Moon Break

The problem wasn't two different timelines, it was that each episode is twenty minutes long and about half of that is action. So since what is left is split between two separate stories and casts of characters basically nothing was happening in either timeline.

I found that it varied from episode to episode.

Yeah I was generalising a tad there but you get my point...hopefully. It was just I didn't really understand what was going on and I just felt like the show was wasting my time with slow story progression and scenes dedicated to just random weird crap that didn't serve any real purpose. I'm not an idiot, I don't need stuff on a platter but I'm also not really a fan of being left in the dark either.

Yeah, I agree with you there. There needs to be a balance.

Which is a big part of the reason why I watched all the episodes of Kuuga with the Grongi translated even though I was advised otherwise. Luckily now MCS have taken over the UL speak in Japanese most of the time.

Watched episode 37-42 of OOO. Man I loved Date's entire character arc and he is such a great character I miss him. Loved the Ankh and Gotou stuff and loving the developments of Eiji and Maki. I am close to finishing my first Kamen Rider series =)

I'm just glad you're loving it!
Say, have you watched OOO's movie yet, OOO Wonderful?

Wizard episode 38

I've actually been rewatching, skimming really, through OOO just for fun sicne I have the TaToBa model coming. Sometimes when I remember the plot and end of the series I forget why I really like the show as much as I do, and it all comes down to the construction. It's just very, very well made, and the figth scenes are excellent. Seriously, OOO has some of the best action of any KR series I've dipped into.

Also, I just love OOO himself. And I do mean OOO, not Eiji. I mean, I like Eiji, but when he's in the suit his body language and the way he acts is just great, especially as TaToBa or any mix-match combo. (since he usually goes super hardcore fighting and combos don't last as long, he doesn't get to do a lot of acting) Stuff like when he got the Lion Medal and he was acting all excited for his present and wiping his hands on his legs, or the entire scene in episode 6 when the ridevendor wouldn't transform. I miss that kind of... not really comedy, just body language and character through the suit. Lots of riders have body language and personality through the suit, but it's a lot more charactiture instead of natural how-a-person-acts. Also as the show goes on OOO becomes more and more stoic so he just doesn't do that kind of stuff. :(

What about it?

So watched W got to Accels debut, He was ok, I mean, sure the suit looks good, but "Terry" whatever his name is :lol I just dont like him hopefully he will grow on me.

So what do yall think, should I go to Fourze and watch till Meteors debut? Or continue W?

I'd say continue W, but I love Fourze too.

Speaking of, I watched the second to last arc in Fourze, and holy crap.
I was totally suckered by Libra's act. I love the returning character being Pisces, and the trap set for her by Libra. Kengo being the core switch, or having it in him, or whatever they're doing with that seems interesting, and makes me think of Buffy season 5.

Really looking forward to finishing Fourze up tonight. I'll be sad to see it go, but then I'll be able to focus on finishing Decade, after which I'll be switching off Faiz and Wizard. Really looking forward to getting back to Wizard too.

Continue W. Terui (yeah I'm not super sure how to spell his name, I call him Terry as well. Or Ryu because that's his first name) grows on you. Especially once his story arc developes and you learn more about him and he generally just smartens up. No spoilers, but he becomes a pretty great team player later on. I hated him when I first saw him, but he's one of my favourite secondary riders now.

It helps that he doesn't really have a genuine ego like most tough-guy-brood-face secondary riders do. He's stoic, but not pomous.

Terui shares much of the same concepts other secondary Riders, being mean, abrasive, rude, and just downright unlikable.

For the most part, they all tend to become fan favorites for their respective series because they do lighten up and when their backstory is unveiled, they become much better characters.

Terui is no different. I just think the "Asshole secondary Rider" thing as a whole is too played out, even before Accel's introduction.

Agreed. That's why I was glad when Gotou didn't become Birth right away.

BTW, I decided to return to Wizard since I kind of felt bad for just forgetting it like that.

Then I remember Shampoo and his overall "what in the fucking blue negaverse hell were they thinking?"-ness reminds me exactly why I forgot.

Considering how Fourze was, and how Wizard is, I'm kind of afraid that Kamen Rider is getting a bit... ridiculous. W and OOO managed to be light-hearted without being pandering or annoying, but this is getting too much. I really think every additional cast member thrown into the central plot (the "in the know" group) weakens it. In W we basically had just three, then four, good guys related to the central plot. (and even then, Philip and Shotaro were a single detective) In OOO we had five counting Hina and Date and Brotou, but that was lessened by the Birth pair being a team that functioned as one. Wizard has, like, five people already and I haven't even gotten to Beast. Plus, unlike those other post-Decade shows I've watched, only Hairytoes is useful in any way being the rider. So we've got four people who are essentially baggage, two without any crutch to fall back on.

Introducing Date was a great choice. Gave Gotou time to pull that stick out his ass.
It's also why I liked Beast and Zeronos (Who was kind of rude, but Deneb's damage control and their overall interactions kept me from disliking him) so much.

That's pretty much Riderman's fault. As the first real "secondary Rider" his storyline followed that whole "initially at odds with the hero, but eventually a true friend and ally... oops, he's dead" arc that would, apart from that last bit, be the standard for secondary Riders of the Heisei era.

That's one of the things I like about Wizard. Nitou tried to do that whole "rival" thing, but he's too big of a goofball and Haturo doesn't give enough of a damn for it to have ever really worked. :lol

Well...I guess fingers crossed for the next Rider.
The background cast have been getting ridiculously large (Nothing beats Fourze's, though :lol), and when they mostly consist of people to stand around and go "OH" during fights, yeah, it really feels like they don't have much point.

I just hate that, outside of a rare, shining few examples (Nitou, Date, Kagami), they've all been played straight and typical.

I loved Nitou for doing something different. Especially after Ryuusei.

Also, since I am still watching Wizard, is eveyrone in the world just a giant moron? This woman doesn't believe it when somebody cries monster.

Really.

Because, you know, it's not like monsters have been attacking since day one or anything. It's so, so stupid when these shows try to play the whole "someone doesn't believe monsters exist." Because it's just so at odds. It's like they're deliberately trying to point out how moronic it is.

I swear to God, Wizard has to be the stupidest series as far as general character intellect goes. Aside from going-through-the-motions-of-life Hairytoes, not one single God-damned person has made a sensible decision this entire show. It's insufferable that every, single, solitary human being is a doofus.

This.

This whole discussion about asshole secondary riders makes me glad of my decision to have my second rider in Xtreme be a girl and not an asshole just a goofball.

just finished episode 20 of Kabuto and all i have to say is: What! The! Hell!

Episode 22 and 23 of W

What the hell? An idol knockoff episode? This was one of the weirder episodes ive seen so far :lol but it was funny to see Phillip and shoutaro singin. Another thing, why the hell was Phillip wearing a dress? He legit looked like a girl more than usual :lol