You know, I didn't mention it, but the whole bit where it's revealed that ZECT was so not fooled by Kagami and Misaki's ruse that they literally brought him to some random building was great. Like, it is such an embarrassing moment for Kagami to walk off from Mishima in a proud huff, like he's going to bust into ZECT HQ and go smash up the place in righteous fury until the truth comes out... and then Mishima just starts dying of laugher waiting for him to realize what a dope he looks like.

And the thing is, it really was insane of Kagami to believe such transparent subterfuge was going to work! It's not like, some out of nowhere twist that's impossible to predict; His whole plan was cosplaying as Tadokoro and hoping for the best! He just foolhardily assumed a militarized organization of nebulous authority would be dumber than he is, which they obviously weren't, and that makes it work so much better with the overall message of the episode. This is why you need people around to support you Kagami! You're not great at espionage!

Yeah, there are multiple pieces of this episode that resonate a lot with even my incomplete memory of where the show goes with them.

Since I'm coming in late to the discussion, I guess the big thing I'll focus on this time is the Worms. I'm not a huge fan of the Worms as a monster faction and I think this episode did a good job of highlighting some of my issues with them. We got some pretty decent character work with WorMisaki (love it - always a fan of a good portmanteau) and we're starting to get a good sense of Veil Lady Whose Name I Don't Remember. This stands out to me because it feels like it's been a long time since we got much characterization out of a Worm. For a species of shapeshifters, it feels like we mostly just see them as silent brutes. I'd love to see more things like the hesitant WorMisaki or the little boy from the Gatack premiere.

No real special toku plans for the day. Watched God Speed Love yesterday, still procrastinating the newest Saber. I thought about maybe throwing on my favorite first episode of a Rider show - Kamen Rider Black's - but ended up just watching Doctor Who reruns on TV all day instead.

So, I didn't mention it before because I wasn't 100% certain, and after rewatching it I'm still not sure... but I think the joke is that ZECT brought him to the building they were interrogating Tendou in from 06. When Goro starts laughing, Kagami looks to the entrance of the building, and that's when he realizes they aren't at ZECT HQ. I think he recognizes the entrance from when he busted in to save Tendou. That's why Goro's laughing at Kagami; Kagami forgot that he busted into this place and it's not ZECT's headquarters!

The show is definitely delving more into the symbiosis of when the Worms dupe somebody, which I find fascinating (it leads to so many more cool twists), thematically-rich (you can be your own worst enemy sometimes), and probably foreshadowing (I got theories about Tendou!). It's way more compelling if they aren't just mindless killers or mute monsters.

I think you're probably right about that; great catch! Huh. They don't really show it from the same angles, but looking back at both episodes, it seems clear that's the same place, and it would explain Kagami's exact reaction, which has the tone of "wait crap i know where this is".

I have to say, it's a little on the subtle side if that's the intent, though. Like, even if I was sure right away it's the same filming location, without a line of dialogue outright confirming it in the narrative, I wouldn't put it past Toei to try and pass it off as a different place, you know?

Oh, for sure. It really could've used a drop-in from 06, like the shot when Kagami fakes out the guard. As it is... I mean, I think it's more of a knife-twist from ZECT if they picked a spot Kagami knew wasn't HQ, but it's not crucial to the reveal.

And, for a series that reuses locations as often as Kamen Rider does (quick shout-out to Delta Alley, which popped back up a couple episodes ago), I don't know if I'm on board with the suggestion that Toei would make a different location pass for an old one. It is always the other way around!

Then I must've mixed up some words, because that's exactly what I was trying to say.

Also, I'm now absolutely certain it IS both the same place they filmed at, and the same building ZECT uses in-universe, because I went and checked the credits again, and both 6 and 26 were directed by Takao Nagaishi, the guy I explicitly said is apparently known to pay extra attention to filming locations.

See, now that we know that Goro was picking a location for "ZECT HQ" that was laughing at Kagami's obliviousness, I kind of wish he'd've picked a way more insulting location?

KAGAMI: Hiding ZECT's leadership inside this nondescript French restaurant? If you think that's going to stop me from getting at the truth about the Masked Rider Program, you don't know Kamen Rider Gatack! *razes La Salle to the ground* wait where am i actually

Kamen Rider Gatack rampages through a mall as Mishima keeps telling him "no, no, our secret headquarters is in the store next to that one", while his squad of ZECTroopers sit in the background placing bets on how many people's livelihoods Kagami will destroy before he realizes they're only messing with him.

He only stops once Mishima finally gets bored the next morning.

Goro tells Kagami that ZECT HQ is a metaphor, that it actually exists within the hearts of everyone.

None are left alive.

Just a warning: I'm doing the write-up for God Speed Love now, and... I hope you're okay if this one goes pretty negative? If you liked GSL, I don't know, you are maybe going to want to skip this thread for a day or so, until 27.

Die, I'm obviously not going to do that. :p

The strongest feeling I have about the film is probably tied into my first viewing, which was a few years ago and long after I'd watched the series proper. That feeling is: "Man, I am having so much trouble recognizing which characters are from the series and which ones aren't." Really had trouble differentiating Drake and Hercus from each other and I was sure that the woman on Neo ZECT was Misaki, not Megumi from Ryuki.

On a related note, I can never remember which one is Ketaros and which one is Caucasus.

"KAMEN RIDER KABUTO" - GOD SPEED LOVE

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/...kabutogsl1.png

So, here's two positive things.

First, man, the director did an amazing job with this movie. Tons of inventive shots, great use of lighting, the dramatic scenes look properly cinematic and emotional (maybe could've toned down that gauzy filter), the fight scenes have heft, and there's a constant plussing of the material. Can't really knock the visuals in this movie.

Second, there's a point in the beginning where ZECT and Neo-ZECT are facing off in the desert. Kagami pleads with Yamato to spare Oda and the rest of Neo-ZECT, since the real fight is against the Worms. And Yamato agrees. He bows down to Oda, begs him to come back to ZECT, offers to suffer any humiliation. And then Oda just kicks him and says something stupid about freedom (stay positive, stay positive, you'll get a chance to be negative, just finish this last positive paragraph, you can do this) but the conception of Yamato here, I thought, was pretty interesting. I liked that he seemed to be someone who'd jump at the chance to bolster his forces, who didn't let a dispute over ideology stand in the way of defeating a greater enemy. That's a cool idea, even if it's only for part of a scene. That was neat.

The rest of the movie was probably the worst Kamen Rider thing I've ever experienced. It's more awful, for a more sustained time, than anything I've ever seen from this franchise. The only delight it brought me was when I was howling in laughter at certain scenes (everyone humming God Bless America as Hiyori died of Narratively Convenient Illness, while wearing her wedding dress, was definitely in So Bad It's Good territory), as well as the aforementioned directing. It's astonishingly bad, a misfire on every single narrative level.

The most egregious sin is that there's basically nothing from the Kabuto series in this movie. Some suits, sure (hope no one wanted to see Sasword's suit outside of a brief shot from a big battle scene), but none of the themes or characters or warmth or humor or intelligence. Everything in it is at best a pointless deviation, and at worst a fundamental misinterpretation of what worked from the series.

Like, what the hell was this even about? Gone are the themes of humility, of teamwork, of empathy. Instead, there's just this bland nationalism, two men dedicating themselves to saving a weak lady, and every character from the show saying some recognizable catchphrase before dying randomly. Daisuke is a freedom fighter, Hiyori smiles a lot, Kagami doesn't trust Tendou, Tendou is demonstrative and emotional at the drop of a hat, Yaguruma is some stooge, Misaki contributes nothing besides looking great, everything's post-apocalyptic and brutal... why would I want to watch a Kabuto movie that doesn't include anything I love from the TV show? Megumi from Ryuki is in this, and she's as close to her character from that show as the Kabuto actors are in this movie to their show. It's all In Name Only bullshit, up and down the cast.

I mean, the core dramatic tension in this movie is with Tendou being Hiyori's brother, and Kagami being Hiyori's boyfriend. (Hiyori doesn't really have any tension. She exists to be happy, get sick, be sad, and die. She doesn't get to make any choices of her own in this movie. The few times she tries, she's basically guilted into protecting Kagami's ego.) God Speed Love took a series about humility, about self-improvement, about stepping aside when someone else is better suited to solve a problem... and it turned it into some weird thing about secret siblings and chemistry-free romance. (Holy shit, there is nothing between Kagami and Hiyori that looks even vaguely romantic in this movie. I'd've honestly had an easier time believing Kagami and Hiyori were the siblings of that trio.) There was not a single thing from the TV show that I felt was present in this movie.

And, you know, I could forgive that, maybe. It's an AU movie, I'm used to those. Structurally, it's not a million miles away from the Faiz movie. A small band of rebels in a post-apocalyptic wasteland, everyone looks like they shop at Refugee H&M, whatever. It can work. It's not automatically disqualifying.

So of course this movie isn't just Not Kabuto, it's also set entirely within a Stupid Dystopia. The premise of it is ridiculous, in ways that are constantly, inescapably distracting. The asteroid that hits in 1999 vaporizes the world's oceans, creating a brutal hellscape that ZECT rules with an iron fist. (if your government starts handing out half-capes to its soldiers and bureaucrats, congratulations, you now live in a parable about fascism!) Meanwhile, Neo-ZECT wars against ZECT, fighting for freedom.

Except, mostly it just looks like ZECT is keeping a world alive? There is a goddamn operating French restaurant, so it doesn't seem like they're so terrible? And, yes, I am aware that you can simultaneously have a fascist regime and French restaurants, but no one in La Salle seems especially oppressed or downtrodden. In fact, beyond a baffling third-act twist (we'll get to it), we never really see ZECT do anything evil? Neo-ZECT keeps spouting off about freedom and oppression, but ZECT has somehow kept a world with no oceans running for seven years. Neo-ZECT comes off as terrorists and anarchists, with plenty of grievances and no proposed alternatives. I don't... I don't understand what the struggle is between these two factions. I never see ZECT being evil, and I'm not sure what Neo-ZECT is offering as an alternative. It's just a bunch of fighting, and it's about nothing.

That's all cast off (if you will) with a third-act twist: Kagami Outrageous and Goro are bringing a new asteroid to Earth to wipe out what's left of humanity.

WHY. WHY IN THE-- WHY. WHY.

There is literally nothing in the script that explains why they'd spend seven years rebuilding humanity to the point that it could use Clock Up to retrieve an asteroid that'd wipe out everyone and leave the planet to the Worms. ZECT was created to defeat the Worms, and they've spent seven years doing precisely that. If this was their endgame, why not just let the Worms kill everyone seven years ago? What was anything for?

It's a movie that disappoints; constantly, repeatedly, thoroughly. No one does anything that makes any sense. (When Tendou tells Oda he might betray him, Oda's like I Love It You're The Best Tendou.) The golden Rider ends up being just some guy. Hiyori's plot is hollow, miserablism disguised as profundity. It doesn't feel like anyone in the film (outside of siblings) likes each other, cares about each other. There's only one intentional joke that I saw, where Kagami stutters his way through a proposal. Otherwise, it's just a bleak film where anyone you were excited to spend time with dies horribly. And they're mostly meaningless deaths, unheroic in the moment (Oda, Daisuke) or missing enough context to feel integral (Yamato). Whatever fun or warmth there is in the Kabuto series, this movie not only lacks it, it replaces it with maudlin melodrama and pointless deaths.

I hated this movie so much.

A QUESTION

Please remind me of happier times. What's your favorite Kamen Rider movie? (Please, no spoilers if it's from Den-O through Decade or Zi-O up.)

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/...kabutogsl2.png

Surprise Future is really good! As is the Build/Ex-Aid Heisei Generations movie. And if you wanna include V-Cinemas, I liked the Chase one! (Maybe more caus I like Chase than the plot, but still, that's not what you asked!)

But oof, sorry to see you had a sucky time with this one. At least the show can only appoint you by being better than this now, right?

Good choices! I don't think I really connected with Banjou's story in the Build/Ex-Aid movie, but I love those casts so much (and it has some of my favorite Legend Rider appearances) that I don't really mind. Fun flicks, for sure.

I feel like this one hurt more because I'm enjoying the show so much right now. Probably wouldn't've stung if I didn't know what I was missing!

https://i.imgur.com/k7LLGPV.png

I don't think Die said anything that was incorrect.

I also don't agree with Die, somehow, so this should be fun.

God Speed Love is a movie with some pretty severe narrative issues, to be sure. Like most summer movies, it's something I've come back to a few times, which wasn't true of the series itself until this thread started, so in a way, it might be what I most remember about Kabuto. Some of that is the sense of emotional detachment the story leaves you with, admittedly. It's not a movie I particularly loved or anything, even on a rewatch or two.

Watching it right in the middle of the show this way, however, I came out of it with a strange newfound appreciation for what it's doing?

Of all the alternate universe Heisei Rider summer movies, this is probably the one that most actively revels in the fact it takes place in an alternate universe. The characters are, by and large, wild offshoots of their television counterparts, but I can see the consideration being given to why and how they differ? Tendou is the easy example, so I'll focus on him. He's a lot more openly emotional, downright breaking down after Hiyori passes away, but, that's exactly it – he's in a scenario where he one of the people he cares about most is beyond his power to save, and that's something TV Tendou has never had to deal with.

There's a great moment, when Kagami is despairing after he learns about Hiyori's illness, where Tendou gives him a classic Yonemura slap to the face and yells at him. Just, maximum volume, zero subtlety screams to ask him if letting himself get caught up in his own misery will help Hiyori. It's macho melodrama taken at face value, but it's precisely because I know how Yonemura usually writes this guy on the small screen that I know for sure the whole point of that outburst is how unable Tendou is to process his own feelings of helplessness in this cruel joke of a world he's stuck in. He's still always on the move, always trying to make some plan, but he barely even knows why anymore, and it all comes out in that moment. How much he has force himself just to be Tendou.

The whole ZECT/Neo-ZECT conflict is totally meaningless to him in the end; he's actively playing both sides, and is ultimately doesn't care about anything other than gaining the power to fix this mess. After all, who would know better that this isn't what Kamen Rider Kabuto is supposed to be like than the man himself?

There's a visual that reoccurs a few times throughout the film, in the backgrounds. It's Tokyo Tower, an iconic part of the show's imagery, reduced to a colorless, horribly bent mess, and I think that about sums it up. It feels wrong, and uncomfortable. Everything about this movie feels wrong and uncomfortable, and it's all 100% intentional. These lonely, miserable characters with pointless lives and even more pointless deaths, in a world that offers no hope of salvation.

But then Tendou gets the power he's after, and like the sun shining its light upon the world, he brings the warmth back. The very first scene of the movie of a young Tendou failing to reach his hand out to Hiyori as they're both trapped under the rubble created by the impact of the meteor that carried the Worms. The very last scene before the credits start rolling is Tendou and Hiyori getting to make that connection, and ending up in a much happier place because of it.

Is anything about any of that enough to justify the actual experience of watching the movie? Does it serve a purpose to wait an hour to see Tokyo Tower looking nice again when you could just not watch the movie and never even see it in disrepair to begin with? I can't claim to know, but for Die it definitely wasn't, and for me... I think I knew for sure I liked this movie now when the very last thing that happens (except in the theatrical cut) is Kagami interrupting Tendou's usual melodramatic pointing to the heavens by playfully throwing him into the water at the beach, as if to remind Tendou that they're all here to have fun. Like, I don't really think the movie is saying anything very profound, and I'm not sure why it wants to say the things it does the way it does, but I'm confident it's at least speaking, and that was good enough for me.

Hidenori Ishida directing on this level of quality could probably convince me anything has deep inner meaning, though.

It really can't be understated how great the direction is all throughout this movie. So many images in it seem like they could easily be iconic. Perfectly considered lighting all over the place, a ton of variety in locales taking us from epic sunset deserts all the way to the vast emptiness of outer space itself, with the latter being a first for Kamen Rider. So, if nothing else, at least God Speed Love existing with its pretentious title and all its self-serious misery paved the way for Fourze to spend his summer making friends with satellites instead.

But that movie didn't have Ishida, and this one did, which works wonders for disguising the rough edges narratively. It's a shame to think the only Rider movie he directed after this was the Amazons movie, but I also kind of understand the huge gap there. This is such a massive leap up from his work on Missing Ace, he probably felt like there was no way he could top it. Every little moment in here feels big, and every big moment feels like a true spectacle. I wish I could I just sit here listing them all, but it'd legitimately just become a scene-by-scene summary of nearly the entire film. The way Caucasus is handled especially, I can't imagine coming out as well under any other director who was working for Toei at the time. He's a nothing character, but hand that to a director who knows how to create atmosphere, and suddenly you've got an intimidating villain who will make you feel nervous around roses. Plus, things get lit on fire, which is always the most important thing!

I had a great time with this movie. It's no Paradise Lost (nothing is), and I can totally sympathize with Die's problems, but man, I think it has some redeeming qualities, for sure. I mean, how can a movie where you get to see a Kamen Rider die from atmospheric reentry while using his last breaths to proudly declare his loyalty to a militarized organization of nebulous authority be a total wash, right?

The AU-ness of this one is sometimes debated. It's occasionally argued that the movie is a prequel to the series, with Tendou's time travel gimmick being where the belt came from on the show, too. Avoiding any specific spoilers, there are multiple inconsistencies between what we see in the film and the eventual backstory we'll get on the show. It's a bit like Ryuki's movie in that sense - arguably but not explicitly canon.

But yeah, the film definitely feels like somebody looked at the post-apocalyptic Faiz movie and the Kurosawa homage Hibiki movie and decided to combine the two for a post-apocalypse with French restaurants and hair product that has some loose Yojimbo elements. I didn't dislike it as much as you did, but it's not a favorite by any stretch of the imagination. The only part that really stands out in my memory is the fight between Kabuto and Ketaros (I think) on the space station exterior. That part was cool - also, Clock Up means you aren't affected by a vacuum, I guess?

The Hiyori stuff was 1000% shlocky melodrama. And yeah, anything where Hiyori is smiling feels wrong.

As for my favorite movie, it's probably the Showa vs. Heisei one. The tacked on fight at the end and reuse of Shoji Yonemura Plot #1 (of 1) aside, I really liked all the interactions between the different generations of Riders. The X and Faiz stuff alone makes this one of my favorites.

Please don't ever change.

I'm glad you enjoyed it, so much so that I'm going to avoid mentioning how much I hated the Amazons movie despite the fantastic direction. (What is with this dude and terrible plots? Give him something worthy of his time!)

If this had been a post-apocalyptic story featuring our normal cast, I'd've been on board with it. If this had been an, I don't know, an Ordinary Universe story featuring these weirder versions of the cast, I'd've been on board with it. (Less so than the one with the normal cast, but there'd probably be something I could've keyed into.) But this movie puts brand-new versions of our characters into a brand-new world, and... I mean, it's rough to try and tell a story that reflects on the show if you're trying that.

It's like, if you've got a Jack and Coke, and you switch the Jack to Seagram's 7, it's a change from the usual mix. If you've got a Jack and Coke and you change the Coke to 7-Up, same deal. In both cases, it's a twist on the normal recipe. If you change both ingredients to Seagram's 7 and 7-Up, you've made a 7 and 7, and that's a completely different drink. You haven't altered the recipe, you've made a different thing entirely.

(hi also i don't drink so i hope that analogy holds up)

Maybe the one action part of the direction I wasn't thrilled with? When they're both out there, floating in space, I'm like Oh This Is Going To Be Awesome... and then they both Clock Up and start running around a cardboard platform. Not my favorite fight in the movie!

Well, just to prove how much that's never going to happen, allow me to express further sympathy in the form of praising Wizard, which had a summer movie I consider pretty much a gold standard middle ground between both the usual movie formulas, getting to explore weird stuff in a wildly different setting while also keeping it all super keyed in to the TV show by having a very strong, explicit focus on the Haruto and Koyomi we know and... well, I mean, I love them, anyway.

The point is, I definitely get why God Speed Love is a hard sell for you; given the choice, I'd probably rather have something that's a lot less roundabout in its thematic and narrative connections to the series too. There's no denying a more straightforward film could've been at least as impactful while also being considerably more approachable.

I second the Wizard in Magicland praise. The movie knows exactly what it wants to be, how to use the characters and it executes it pretty much flawlessly. My absolute favorite Summer Movie!

The only Wizard movie I can ever remember is the Gaim crossover one, where Haruto seems so tense and awkward during the concluding segment. He's weirdly uncomfortable? If you told me that the actors had been spitting on his donuts all day, I'd believe you.

But I looked up the Wizard summer movie, and yes, Magic Land is great... mostly because it funded the creation of Magica Land, which is the greatest Net-Movie series of all time. I recall Magic Land being very fun, too!

(I also like Haruto and Koyomi! My occasional dismissals of Wizard are either related to some decisions around pacing or are just me being flippant! I do like those kids!)

Oh! I was only thinking of summer movies after hearing that question and just realized I completely forgot to mention Movie War Mega Max, which is still, nearly a decade later, the (subjectively) objective best Rider movie ever made in my mind.

Some of the greatest, most frenetic direction Sakamoto ever put to screen, a killer OOO epilogue, a fun Fourze adventure, and more Showa love than you can shake a stick at (as if Die cares). It's got something for everyone and it moves at such a great clip while it's at it. You couldn't ask for a better anniversary celebration.

...Oh, movie in general :o

If that's the case, I'd go with Heisei Generations. It doesn't have the Movie War format, which is just great in and of itself and it is actually really, really good! The characters are used well, many fun ideas, one hell of a final fight. It really feels like Kamen Rider Avengers ins a way and I'm all for it. Sorry Megamax, but haveing the better structure just makes that a no-brainer for me.

That movie has maybe my all-time favorite bit for Shotaro, one of my all-time favorite Riders. It's when Eiji and Gentaro are trying to get Double's help, and Gentaro calls Shotaro "senpai", and Shotaro visibly grows three inches taller as he rolls the word "senpai" around in his mouth. He's so puffed up that Philip has to basically do an Alright Okay We All Heard It Too thing to try and rein in his ego. It's the most precious thing. It's not chasing a corgi with a surly teenager who runs his own dance crew, but it's a very Shotaro moment.

My first Kamen Rider movie, and one I'll always have a fondness for. That crosscut fight scene, as everyone's theme songs play? Iconic.

God Speed Love is a movie I like basically as weird popcorn spectacle, which admittedly isn't too far from my general thoughts on Kabuto the series, but the movie is really on a whole other level of 'my brain could not turn itself on for this even if i tried'. There's nothing to the story of this one, but I'd still rank it above the likes of Missing Ace which had neither a story I liked nor distinctive visuals.

Just want to give a quick shout-out to Caucasus. There are technically three movie riders but he's the only one that matters, really. He lacks any meaningful character (they can't all be Kabuki, I guess), but (over)compensates with gimmicks and a wacky performance. I'm not likely to remember much about G4 or Sorcerer beyond what they look like, but I'll always remember this golden bug man and his thing with petals.

I think my favourite summer movie is probably A-Z: Gaia Memories of Fate! Just a really solid and high-budget adventure where our heroes take on a colourful group of bad guys. Kamen Rider Joker in particular is a pretty novel outing filled with cool fistfights all over the place, but it all leads to W's great climax against Eternal that caps off when the winds of the city (the people's cheers) turn to his favour. (Though in terms of over-the-top sentimental yet exciting moments, nothing for me beats the Fourze movie's scenes of handing switches to all the supporting characters and then the sequence of counting down from all 40 switches.)

Favourite movie in general though is probably still always gonna be Heisei Generations FINAL. I love Build and Ex-Aid, I love the nostalgic return of everyone else, especially OOO who got the biggest slice among the legend riders. And the big speech about what Kamen Riders are about at the end might be generic, but it's also perfect to me. (Helps that it caps off with a really stylish double rider kick)

I’ll be honest, I don’t have much to say about this movie. Just that Caucasus reminds me heavily of Odin from Ryuki.

So to fill this comment out, I’ll discuss the various ways the video game changes up the plot of the film

* Kabuto's fight with Ketaros is staged within the water dam instead. Ketaros' death was also altered, which he died by fighting instead of being crashing into the earth.
* Caucasus was defeated by both Kabuto and Gatack instead.
* In Story mode, if the team-up fight alongside Kamen Rider Hercus is won without changing to Rider Form, Kamen Rider Kabuto will appear riding the Kabuto Extender in its EX Mode while still in Masked Form.
* Ketaros is able to use a Rider Beat finisher in the game, despite it never being shown in the movie.

Also worth mentioning that while not shown in the movie or represented on the toy, the “Kabutick Riders” (the official names for our Movie Riders) do have a Masked Form. It’s only in the form of the action figures released alongside the show. You can see them at the bottom of that link below this paragraph.

https://kamenrider.fandom.com/wiki/Masked_Form

As for the favourite movie, I cannot say due to a mix of a) not playing favourites and b) to avoid breaking your “no spoiler” rule.

MegaMax may have been the first actual Kamen Rider thing I ever saw, so I guess you can blame that for me sticking arounf so long. I have the vaguest clue what was going on, and it was great.

The first toku thing I saw outside of powered rangers was super hero taisen on youtube without subs

God Speed Love has the distinction of being the first Kamen Rider film I actually got to see in the theater, so I have a soft spot for it. (And also a nifty little card holder thingy that has had a Suica card in it for, uh. Almost 15 years. It sits on a shelf now, because Kamen Rider promotional items are not always well made and I would like for it not to fall apart due to overuse.) I want to join the camp of appreciating how amazing it looks - it is visually spectacular and I will occasionally go back to it for that alone.

Nostalgia and visuals not withstanding, I really enjoy AUs in the canon-divergence flavor; I think some really great character exploration can be done by altering the setting and looking at how characters might change. Experience is a huge part of building character and personality, so when the experiences that make a character who they are don't happen in the new canon, how does the character develop differently?

Which is a bit of a roundabout way of saying I can see why the creative team went for a different setting and different versions of the characters. I don't think they did it well; it's really hard to see what might have led to the characters we see on screen coming out of the people we know and love from the show. Which is a more roundabout way of saying that it's a concept that I really love but I found the execution disappointing.

I do have some new appreciation, given Fish's take on the bleakness providing a deliberate contrast to the joy at the end, instead of just being grimdark for the sake of being melodramatically grimdark.

I always did love the rose bit, though.

As for other Kamen Rider movies, because today apparently I'm just going to talk a lot :D I tend to have generally positive feelings about them (Hell Yes OOO In Generations Final, for example, and the Wizard movie was super fun, and there were multiple Den-Oh movies I enjoyed, and I could do this literally forever) but since I also really love time loops, I am the only person I know who liked the Kamen Rider 4 special for Drive :lol It is my go-to for warm fuzzies or just to relax for a bit with something I don't have to think too hard about. There is no good reason for this, except time loop, lol

pet tax :)

What about the debut of Hyper Kabuto though, that was pretty awesome right? What do you think of the suit and the ability to fly and move so fast that time goes backwards?

I was really surprised by the part where Caucasus killed Kagami and Hyper Kabuto just went back and changed the outcome. Sure, it was kind of pointless since that version of Kagami ended up being negated by the next timeline change but I think it was a cool way to show off Hyper Kabuto's ability.

This movie is also the debut of the Natives, those Worms with the large horns who fought Kabuto on the bridge.

Wow, you laughed at Hiyori's death?

Replace "Kabuto" with "Hibiki" and I feel like we had this exact same conversation about that movie except our roles were reversed. I find it humorous that you critique God Speed Love for the characters acting like different people but not Hibiki's movie where the characters were literally different people. Can you identify anything specific to God Speed Love that elaborates on why it didn't work for you by comparison?

My favorite summer movie is Surprise Future but my favorite Movie War and movie overall is Movie War Ultimatum!

Yeah, I think the fact that everyone is just so different, especially Tendo and Hiyori, is there to highlight how everything in this timeline is not how it should be. Seeing Hiyori being more open and Tendo being not just slightly emotional but out of control emotional as if he was suddenly a normal human being, it all just gives this feeling that the world is terrible and they're acting OOC out of desperation, with Hiyori's imminent death making her afraid of being alone with nobody by her side and Tendo faced with a scenario he can't make better. These are characters pushed to their limit.

The dilapidated Tokyo Tower could also be a metaphor for a wilting flower, starved of water due to a world with no oceans, which symbolizes that the world is on the verge of death and the comet being destroyed by the second meteor completely destroys all hope of saving it.

Ketaros' death scene is easily the most humorous moment in the movie for me, especially with how it happens immediately after Neo-ZECT Girl says to Hercus "We still have Yamato!" I mean, talk about irony!

Yeah, it's kind of hard to even talk about canon when time travel is involved. But I think of God Speed Love as being like a prequel to the show and setting up the canon while technically being non-canon itself except for the belt which is an artifact, kind of like Sento and Ryuuga in the last episode of Build.

Anyway, when I watched Dinosaur Panic last year, I thought the whole breaking a giant meteor in to a smaller meteor in the past thing seemed familiar and after rewatching God Speed Love, well now I get it. The major difference is that Dinosaur Panic exists in a causal loop whereas God Speed Love is literally removed from the main timeline.

One of my favorite things! In all of Kamen Rider! Just them taking all of the little things Gentaro has done for people, and showing the enormity of its value... so great. In some ways, I prefer its directness to the ending of the TV series, but they're honestly both great. Good pick!

Neat! Thanks!

That's pretty much my defense for loving Heisei Generations as much as I do. For someone who barely understood that there were other Kamen Rider shows, or how they worked, I had no idea what I was supposed to be feeling about all of these non-Ex-Aid folks. (I thought Shinnosuke was a supporting character on Ghost's show!) It was a blast, though; this deluge of costumes and characters. I try to view things critically, but I am not immune to nostalgia!

That was probably a trip!

Good choices! There are so many fun and good Kamen Rider movies!

Adorable.

I liked it, but it's almost impossible for me to appreciate it in the context of a story I can't invest in. I'm very much looking forward to being able to talk about it when it debuts on the TV series, though!

Yes. Hard. Her death was something that already didn't really work (she doesn't get to do anything in the movie beyond act as a concept for Tendou and Kagami to protect, so her dying from Narratively Convenient Illness isn't doing anything for the story), and then they dressed her up in a wedding dress, and then everyone's humming her childhood song of God Bless America (?????), and then it all just keeps going into Grim Determination as two skinny men walk along a beach... It takes a scene that doesn't work, piles on elements that are insane, and then stays on the scene way longer than they should've. I was dying watching it, just like Hiyori.

I can try? (Although, keep in mind: I don't really think the Hibiki movie worked either, if I recall.)

I think the main difference, and the thing that buys a lot of Let's See Where This Goes from me, is that the story in Hibiki was fun? It's an AU set in a totally different world with totally different characters, but it has an energy to it, a playfulness, that GSL just doesn't have at all, outside a death scene or two. There's a cast of fun characters, and a bunch of good gags. Hard to get too grumpy when I'm being entertained.

Plus, the story in Hibiki has more to care about? Kabuki alone is a hell of a villain, and that dude's story is incredibly compelling. By comparison, who is there to get invested in from this movie, as far as villains go? What is there about ZECT's plan that even makes sense, let alone allows for introspection or pathos?

Finally, while I didn't care about the formation of Takeshi like Kurona did, that's at least something of value for the main narrative. Here, you can maybe argue that this is a prequel to the main series, but it's really hard to see how that Tendou/Hiyori scene lines up with Hiyori's TV flashbacks. Beyond that, it's neither addressing the themes of the series (something Hibiki is also guilty of) nor adding to our understanding of the characters. (For me, anyway; I know that you and Fish found something of worth in the new versions of our old favorites, but it didn't work for me at all.)

It was... something! I think it infected my brain.


I guess to actually get around to the question... my favourite summer movies are OOO, Build's and Fourze's; because the movie apple doesn't fall far from the series tree; or something! Something I like about a summer movie most is when it's able to basically just be the series in a nice hour/hour-and-a-half package; something you can just watch and all the feelings and vibes from it come rushing to you and is exactly what the season was about -- and OOO and Fourze's are exactly that! Do I need to say much more than Eiji proclaiming every single person is his family, or Gentarou making friends with a freaking space station? I can't really say much more; those alone are just perfect and it's pulled off so well!

Build's on the other hand enhances the experience for me. If OOO and Fourze's movies are what it's about then Build the series was almost set-up for everywhere Build's takes it. Does it have uninspiring villains? Sure. Does it flounder a little? Yeah. Does it suck that multiple emotional high points in the series are retconned as things The Blood Squad did? ... yeah, what the fuck?? But that cannot take away from a movie where Banjou and Sento's relationship reaches its apex; as they're torn away from each other only for them to come back together and fuse into a mess of a being that saves the day with love & peace. What more could I want?

I think I should mention that the actress playing Hiyori got ill for real while filming this movie. So the character will be phased out of the show for the next few episodes, though not without some awkwardness involved.

And history repeated itself next year, when Den-O’s leading lady got ill filming their movie. Though instead of phasing her out until she could return, they just pulled a Doctor Who on the situation.

One of my favorite things about the Fourze movie (at least in my memory) is that a chunk of it is built around the KRC needing to train for a mission to space -- when they already go to space after school every single day.

(Also, I love that the Wizard cameo has him proclaiming that he's "Kamen Rider Wizard", a thing I'm pretty sure he never refers to himself as on his TV show.)

Oh no!

Ooh, I like that interpretation! Definitely seems like the kind of symbolism this movie would go for. I mean, it does start snowing after Tendou saves the day.

You've really gotta take the laughs in God Speed Love wherever you can find them (Die certainly picked an interesting place!), and I definitely think the dark humor of having the movie-exclusive Riders themed after Olympic medal colors in order of how long they survive is pretty dang amusing. Although if we're talking about how memorable their deaths were, then Ketaros absolutely gets the gold medal. :lol

Well at least she's still the most relatable character then! :p

I'm honestly not even sure why I feel as generous towards this movie as I do, when it's doing so many things I don't really like as ideas any more than you do. I guess the way I'd put it is that I just found it interesting as I was watching it? Like, "fun" isn't quite the right word, but I also wasn't bored, or mad, or anything like that. It goes all in on the weird choices it makes in a way I find a little fascinating.

Plus, Hiyori did get to say "nande boku ga...", so maybe that's enough to keep me happy. Or maybe it just really is *that* stylish visually, who knows?

This is definitely what I like to see too! I don't know if you could say that about God Speed Love outside of it being really weird, which Kabuto is in spades, but the ones I'd consider truly great all meet these criteria. Which is actually a whole lot of them, now that I think about it. Like, I was going to name some examples, but nearly half of them that even exist instantly leapt to mind. Huh.

Right?? I think just about all the post-Decade ones are like this for me. Aside from, uh, the soccer movie. I'm genuinely looking forward to when we get subs for Zero-One's movie, and I feel like getting to Ghost's movie in my rewatch is going to be... pretty interesting, if nothing else

I was going to wait to talk about this until after it affected the series, since I would consider that to be a spoiler (YMMV). But yeah, Hiyori's actress, Yui Satonaka (Google warning: there is another Japanese actress named Yui Satonaka who... let's just say makes movies for a very different audience), is generally said to have gotten really ill during the filming of Kabuto. She retired from the entertainment industry after the show ended. This is the vague production issue I mentioned in one of my early responses to this thread, as the show had to figure out how to work around the absence of one of its central characters. She doesn't leave entirely, but she makes very few appearances after episode 32.

I stumbled across this video a week or two ago while looking up some Kabuto information and it gives a pretty decently researched rundown of what happened. There's not a lot of public information about it, but what actually may have been more complex then the "she got sick" explanation I'd always heard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57Z1...ature=emb_logo