There has been basically no budget for the last forty five episodes so I'm not too worried.

Also TVN have a subbed rip of the opening episode as a DVD rip.

Oh also episode 45 of Kuuga was fucking epic, I love how Gaduro is basically an evil Kuuga with an even flashier Rider kick. I loved their battle. I loved this episode. Shame episodes like this are so rare for this series.

I am re watching Kamen Rider OOO and it is making me want all the combo change series figures, but I would want them all in one go and that is quite expensive.

Episode 46 was sadly not so enjoyable. Kuuga gets a new form and once again it's rubbish, they just swapped the red for black and despite all the build up Gaduro got and all he achieved on screen apparently he isn't immune to a double shin pad Rider Kick. Why is it that this show is utterly incapable of giving villains the send off they deserve?

Wow, it took 10 episodes to get Amazon to start wearing some clothes.

Wonder how long this will last :lol

Wait, does Amazon spend the first ten episodes naked?

If so I know what series I'm watching next.

Amazon :p
http://images.wikia.com/kamenrider/i...e_Yamamoto.jpg

And it just kinda happens at the very end of the fight. "Oh, right. I turned black. Wonder if that's important? Oh well--roll credits!"

Aw, loin cloth?

Just went from a solid two, to like, one.

FINALLY forced myself to finish Wizard 15. Man his forms get lamer and lamer. IMO, PuToTyra will always be a poor man's FangJoker, but one thing I really liked about it was his awesome, if rarely used freeze-tail-smash-attack. It was visceral and awesome, so when Wizad's incredibly silly dragon tail popped out and he froze the badguy, I expected something cool. While he did the tail smash, it was REALLY flashy and dumb with him doing some gliding hover thing before he spins around and it's all so blurry and flashy it lost the aggressiveness that freezing and shattering a badguy should have. Dissapoint.

Still, at least this gate isn't a giant butt, but these dragon upgrades sure are... uneventful. He's getting them one after another, and they're all just recolours in the vein of his base forms, making them really unimpressive as "aquired" forms. I find the actual Kamen Riderness of the show is really unispired. His forms are bland to begin with, and their upgrades are silly and minimal. He has no cool, distinctive powers, just random, sometimes repeated trick moves.

I personally liked PuToTyra over FangJoker. While it was the same concept, it was just more fun.
And nothing can match up with stabbing with the tricera horns, then freezing them with the ptera wings, then the tail smash.
That was just awesome.

Yeah, the tail smash was awesome.

But FangJoker still wins out for being less cartoonish in appearence and demeanor (seiously, Eiji walked like a dinosaur when he was in that form. I mean, come on, if he walked sort of hunched and menacing, but arms up T-rex style was ridiculous) and not repeating itself right after it's arc was resolved. Also because said resolution was way the hell more maturely handled and imaginative than Hina just hugging Eiji to snap him out of his rampage. When Shotaro broke Philip of Fang's feralness, it was this cool inner sequence where we see the Gaia Library ablaze and Shotaro has to dig him out of the books, and when he does Philip reveals that he knew Shotaro would save him, because that's the kind of unshakable trust those two have in eachother. Plus, that was the first time we really got that these two were truely bonded and not just a conflicting duo. PuToTyra was tamed by... a hug, from a nearly irrelevant character overall. No unique symbolism, no comraderie or deep character bonds, just "hug' and puppy dog face from Hina before Eiji spends a few eps in control and then goes nuts again.


Anyway, Weezard 16: Actually, Phoenix's plan is pretty good. Just blow up everything, I'm sure a few people would despair from that. Not to put myself too deep in the mindset of a monster, but torching a city would kill loved ones, destroy homes and memories, livlihoods, all kinds of stuff that's make gates despair. I know he's overall unlikable and a bad actor, but Phoenix is already my favourite character simply for that one brilliant statement. But of course, Medusa is the single worst villain ever so she just crosses her arms and smirks like a complete loser with the weakest of justifications that they might lose gates. Because, you know, despairing them one jerk at a time while Wizard stops you every single time doesn't lose any gates at all.

Seriously, these villains are terrible, and it's all in the base concept. There's no good reason for them not to use their incredible powers to just lay waste to the world, or why two Phantoms don't just tagteam Wizard before he gets another upgrade and remove him from the question.

Also, these police are a joke. And not a funny joke like the Futurama police.

On the positive side, Hairytoes repeated fits of laughter at Stinko's santa suit were pretty funny. Would be funnier if he could act worth a damn, but when he smacked himself to get serious I laughed. Also the gate is a weinerfiend, but at least he tried to fight back, fruitless as it was. Still, I will never understand fictional characters who witness magic firsthand and smugly refuse to believe it. I don't get what makes a writer think that makes sense. Also his assholeium is almost immediately counterbalanced by us seeing him working hard, so no paltry retcon flashback later.

And because they are fighting in a dark forest and Godai takes so long to recognise the change, I just assumed he hadn't changed at all and it was the lighting. But I guess it doesn't matter as this form has already been defeated at the START of the next episode.

Also I'm so glad I was warned about the time jump in the next episode or 47 would have hurt. So apparently a key moment for the series, Godai's first meeting and battle with Zero, was shown through a short artsy montage before the theme and instead 47 focuses on the aftermath of a battle we haven't properly seen or had any context for. I guess that is just Kuuga, two villains left (and three episodes, or two according to Wiki) and I still know nothing about them, their motivations, powers...anything.

It's worse too because the episode keeps screaming exposition at the audience going on about how it's such a big deal that Kuuga was defeated, I mean I already knew that, but if you know that as well WHY AREN'T YOU SHOWING IT.

Also, what is episode 50? According to Wikipedia this show only has 49 episodes.

Episode 48 was hell of a lot better. If there is something Kuuga does well, that is heart string tugging. Sure Godai himself may have the subtly and nuance of a firework and be a terrible protagonist but luckily the rest of the cast are there to emote the episode. And these episodes are always so well written and directed, it even makes the terrible actors in this series feel like they need an Oscar.

By far the best scene of the episode was the goodbye to Sakurako, my GOD it gave me chills! Just the little things, the tears in her eyes even though she has a smile on her face. The way her voice cracks on the goodbyes. The way her body would droop when she thought Godai wasn't looking. The way her mouth was fighting to say the words that she couldn't bring herself to say. And the regret on her face as she chases him into the rain, but it's already too late. "I'll leave the window open for you." such a meaningless sentence, but any fans of the series will probably be a blubbering wreck at Sakurako's conviction to the sentiment that means so much to us. Much like earlier in the series, this show has a great way of convincing me of just how strong and loving their bonds are.

Sadly outside of those emotional goodbyes the episode was pretty weak. Rose died, her final worlds were in Grongi so I have no idea what she said but I'm kinda used to not understanding what is going on in this series. She never once fully transformed on screen and as she was killed off by Ichijou for basically never killing him when she had the chance I have no idea what her purpose on the show was for. Err...bye?

Also Kuuga got a new form which badass looked pretty badass but sadly, even despite all the set up, the final battle just involved the two wailing on each other in the snow. With SYMBOLISM Godai in black the other monster in white.

So I checked out Fourze episode 2, to make sure I am making the right decision moving onto this series next. And I just really think I am.

It has so much Kuuga lacks, whether it's a protagonist who does more than look stoned and gives a thumbs up, who actually convinces you he is in the suit or have ambition that it can at least partially realise, Fourze has achieved almost as much in two episodes as Kuuga has in forty eight. The fighting is awesome as well, I love how the main non-Rider still has a direct impact on the battles much like Ichijou did in Kuuga.

Although I'm not entirely sure I like the idea of villains who get powers from magic buttons (literally) it is at least nice to know this show comes with some form of explanations as Kuuga had none.

About the only thing I'm going to have to get used to is the scale. Although the battles are bigger, the meanings behind them aren't. When Godai fought his enemies, his enemies had killed hundreds of innocent people when Gen fights his enemies, they have a first world problem and decide to settle it with magic buttons. Same with the general feel good tone, it goofiness will eventually grate, I assume, but right now it's so refreshing.

ALSO. Final thoughts on Kamen Rider Kuuga here we gooo:

Overall, I found it a pretty terrible series. I'm sorry, but I did.

This is a supehero show, and I know you have to cut it some slack with its age and so on, but the action in this series was still terrible. And as such, that extremely dampens my enjoyment of a series. If I wanted a gritty police drama, surprisingly...I'd watch a gritty police drama!

The general dark and depressing nature of the story didn't gel with the kind of show this is. The monster designs were well done enough to stop this becoming too goofy but I watch Toku for escapism, not to basically watch a horror film spread out over fifty episodes. If I wanted to watch a horror film I'd...watch a horror film! And if I wanted to slit my wrists...I'd slit my wrists!

However my biggest...biggest complaint was with Godai. All I ever hear is Haruto sucks, how he is 'boring', have you guys not seen Kuuga? Godai is the same character in the first episode as he is in the last one, he has lots of admirable and likeable qualities but in a forty nine episode TV series your character needs to grow, he needs to learn things and change that is the most basic rule of storytelling. By the end Godai was so bland and uninteresting the show started to actively diminish his role in the story as more and more often it was up to the side characters to emote the story and breathe life into it that Godai couldn't. Just a shame the acting sucked.

It's a shame too because there are elements to Kuuga which I wouldn't want people to miss. Although it could do well to fucking cheer up, the fact that Kuuga feels like it's set in a real world with real people with actual cause and effect and consequences really needs to be commended. I also really loved the chemistry between the cast and how well realised their bonds were. Plus Ichijou is easily one of my new favourite characters and was the soul reason I watched this show until the end like I did. Just a shame his character got no closure at all.

Meh.

Annnnnnnnd that's where I stopped reading. Not surprised really. It would go against your personality to like something that's actually good.

Oh, and I can't wait for people who haven't seen the show to take your opinion as fact, like some people have started doing with Agito. :rolleyes

Wow insulting me before even reading my post? You're a pleasant person, I must say. Anyway screw that guy, here is what I'm watching:

Fourze Episode Three.

I don't normally like goofy comedies but after Kuuga this show is just so refreshing. I also really like Gen's attitude and willingness to engage monsters without transforming, now THIS is a lead Rider. It all looks really great as well.

Plus, so much fan service!

For Fourze, you have to remember that the monsters are over emotional and confused high schoolers. A first world problem to an adult has a lot more impact on someone like that.

Anyway, I'm surprised you're liking Fourze, considering your other problems with other series (Useless backup cast, lack of characterization, bad CG) is something Fourze has in spades

Yeah so far they've done well to keep everything fitting for the high school setting.

And I think my like for Fourze is reactionary because it has everything Kuuga lacked. The fights are grand in scale and incredibly flashy and the main Rider actually has an emotional range and can do things for himself out of the suit, living up to his own hype.

If I hadn't just slogged through Kuuga, then I'd probably hate this show, but right now it's like a cool glass of Coke on a hot summers day.

The only thing I did not like about Kuuga was the lack of an actual final battle. The last two episodes of the show sucked hard. There was no payoff, no climatic grand battle, and people seemed out of character during these last two episodes. It's like they forgot they were at the end of the show and had to rush through a story.

I agree about Godai, which is one of the reasons why I think Agito is the superior series. THere is a lot of development and growth with Shuichi.

And Fourze is a damn fine show. It isn't as good as W, but better than OOO, and is just all around well written with good characters (who get their own introduction stories) and great villains.

BTW, damn dude, I thought I was bad, but jesus, use the edit button!!!

I found OOO to be better than Fourze, personally. It had a better sense of scale, the main character had to accept some facts, rather than keep blissful hope, and the duo of Eiji and Ankh was great.

The reason I double post is because it seems most people don't use the subscribe feature and as I'm from the UK there aren't a lot of people who are on when I post. As such if I didn't bump threads then all these threads would probably go unnoticed and die. I edit together a few hours worth of posts into one but if there is still no action in the thread I give it a little nudge, again. The rare times I don't do that is when I write a long single post, because then if I tack that on the end of a post that already has like four episodes worth of thoughts then I've built a bloody wall.

Anyway, I suppose you shouldn't expect a climactic battle in Kuuga which had maybe five good fights in 49 episodes and that is a stretch. But yeah the horrible time jumps for the last ten or so episodes were infuriating as well, I was hoping Godai would at least die in the end so he had something to do.

This thread has been going since the site started, it isn't going to die any time soon.

The American Edition one certainly does, though :lol

Yeah I've been talking to myself in the American Toku thread for about a week now :lol

The few of us that do post there try to keep it alive :p
But yes, even the Sentai edition one doesn't get anywhere as much attention as the Rider one does.

This one probably has attention because I'm bumping it six times a day :p

I found watching through Kuuga that you can really tell they're working out just what in the hell Kamen Rider in the 21st century is going to be right on screen. It's interesting for that reason, but there are a lot of a choices made and roads taken that really seem a little daft in retrospect.

There's some real effort made to make sure you feel like every part of the supporting cast is important and not just an appendage to the hero, but it happens at the expense of getting much inside the hero's POV. There's still some of the dark, ghoulish, gory stuff from the Amemiya movies and some effort to sell them as terrifying, some "adventurous" (ahem) filming choices . . .but yeah. The formula's not in place yet, and it's kinda fascinating to see.

I'm watching Agito right now and you can definitely tell some of the excesses of Kuuga have been set aside and the common Heisei Rider stuff is coming to the form.

It's a big problem when your Rider is the least interesting thing in your show. Not only is Godai one note and boring, but they actually gave the police an active way to fight so they actually killed some of the UL without need for superpowers (which says so much for Kuuga) and since they gave nearly every side character a defined, specific purpose rather than Godai's 'kill stuff' singular purpose he really felt useless at times.

Especially considering most of the exploration of his powers and the mythos is done through the side characters rather than Godai himself which is ridiculous.

That was something I found a lot at times--the people writing Kuuga's attitude towards the actual rider action seemed to be "shit, do we have to?" sometimes. It feels on occasion like a drama series where people in weird costumes show up briefly and kill people, then right back to the drama.

Very odd show. On the other hand, Kuuga is a lot of fun to play in Battride War (after you put in a lot of work to level him up)

Agito seems to be sorta having its cake and eating it to, as the main Rider is a bit of a cipher so far, but there's 2-3 others in the mix as well, so the action/character quotient is working with the need for Rider action, rather than against it. That's . . .progress? Maybe?

Most fights were only a few minutes long, and tacked onto the very beginning and very end of the episode with Godai responding so little to what happened once out of the suit, along with other shit like super healing, you could cut out all the fighting and you wouldn't notice.

Meanwhile five episodes into Fourze and really liking it. Not really a big fan of goofy series but the tone fits the show. I like how Gen isn't just perfect with his powers immediately, he actually goes to train before he can use the switches effectively making the most of the fact he has a teleporter to the moon. I also like how his attitude makes badass even the most seemingly goofy switches, I just really like him in general.

Same with the villains, yeah they may have first world problems, but they feel like problems high schoolers would have and the show manages to make a lot of sense of its high school setting and uses it beyond a novelty.

It does it in a very different way, but Fourze world builds as well as Kuuga did and that is impressive.

I also checked out episode 2 of OOOs as I planned to watch that with Fourze once I'd finished with SPD. However nothing really stood out for me in the episode, in terms of the story or characters, it all just felt a little tired and samey compared to what I've already seen so far. Hell I'm not sure I even get all the medal stuff even with Ankh's simplified explanation.

Then again, man the action sequence was fucking EPIC.

Agito follows much the way of Kuuga, with most of the show having Agito himself (Souichi) nearly oblivious to the rider stuff and never mentioning it/being to bothered by it.

After you advised against watching Agito I took that as gospel, aside from W we seem to agree on basically everything.

The thing with Agito is, my personal feelings aside, I know just from reading your opinion of Kuuga that you wouldn't like it because Agito really is just more of that.

Agito, however, has the crutch of the two secondary riders, but only one is any good. No joke, Gills spends most of his time screaming and glaring. He's supposed to have this deep story but spends most of his time just kind of hanging around. It's like he's got this good story, but they cut it up and space it out so thin you don't get to appreciate it, and G3, while better, is largely ineffectual and not fun to watch because of how.... sucky he is until his upgrade. And to top it off, the cop drama is basically episode after episode of some smug asshole twisting events to make it seem like the G3 team sucks in the eyes of the police chief, with them sometime sgetting a few wins. But really it comes across as two children begging for a parent's attention.

Also Agito had one song for the fight scenes for about 40 episodes of it's 49 episode run. It REALLY made the fights feel generic and samey, which considering for, again, about 40 episodes he only had three forms plus a seldom seen combined form, made the fights barely worth the time to watch.

Even though I'm only three eps in, I much prefer Ryuki. It's the series following Agito, but could not be more different. The main rider is a pretty active dude, he's courageous, takes the rider stuff seriously, (in and out of the suit) and fights even when the odds are against him. The secondary characters are intriguing and the plot is really unique so far. All that from three episodes.

In many senses Kuuga had a secondary Rider, just not one who could henshin. As Ichigo got an arrangement of new weapons and plot bullets that allowed him to score points against the enemy even without superpowers. I love how even the police, something most Rider shows like to paint as incompetent imbeciles, one up the only true Rider of Kuuga. I guess that kind of says everything.

But yeah, Fourze and OOOs are just so refreshing after Kuuga's idea of flashy finishers was 'do the same move three times and flip first', even with all the bad CGI in both shows.

Also I've seen the American adaptation of the Ryuki footage and it was my first Rider series. Most people like to rag on it, I guess because of residual hatred for Masked Rider, but I still think Dragon Knight is a great series that I've watched through three or four times.

In fairness, it's a really great song.

I watched a teeny bit of Dragon Knight, just to see what was up (I don't want to actually watch it if I'm watching Ryuki though, how fucking weird would that be) and it was okay. It was an alrigth adaptation from what little I saw. Like how Batfeet is still an early twenty-something snob with a voice that in no way fits the suit. However I thought the actual transformations were way improved over Ryuki's, abmirably unique as it may be, kinda lame reflections spin onto the dude and he's a rider. Then again Dragon Knight, I think, came out quite some time after Ryuki, so it would've had more effects budget and shit.

BTW, I actually have a few questions and comments before I continue Ryuki. Who is this Olja snake guy? He hasn't shown up yet just he seems to be everywhere and he looks awesome. Is he the villain? All the riders in this show looks awesome and important, like Tiger or Zolda (who I may get after Ryuki since his contract monster seems to be made of BIG FUCKING GUNS that he can then use) so maybe he's just a really awesome looking bit character.

Also, do the production values ever improve? It's hardly destroying my experience or making the show look awful, but it's just noticably odd how the framerate and shit is not like any other rider series.

Also also, I think I might wait until my Figuarts Ryuki ships before I continue because it'd be nice to watch a Rider show for the first time with some representation of the rider themself. Plus I actually quite enjoy the theme song, but the actual intro visuals are cheapsville. I hope they improve it as time goes on. (or ditch that lame shot of the lamesmobile at least) Especially knowing this comes after Agito, where even though the show wasn't good to me, I think it has the best intro of any series ever. (the first version is, though)

Eh, it's alright. It'd be better if it wasn't haunting me in my sleep because they drilled it into my head. It also made every fight feel identical. It was certainly no "Count Zero" which I could listen to on a loop. (at least until the asstacular techno-bubble remix crap in the later stretch)

Then again one of my main complaints with Agito was how offensive to the ears it was. Bad vocal performances, same three scores repeated ad nauseum, generic sound effects.

I rag on it because I honestly preferred Ryuki.
I know you'll call me a Sentai (Well...KR) snob for doing so, but I just enjoyed Ryuki over Dragon Knight.
While Dragon Knight was admittedly leagues better than most every other American Toku series, I just had more interest in Ryuki.

That doesn't make you a snob.

Saying you enjoyed the original more than the adaptation is fine. It's the insufferable milksops that claim the original is automatically better because America changed it are the problem.

If you prefer the original that doesn't make you a snob, that is just your tastes. If you prefer the original...because it is the original and refuse to recognise that the adaptation is thus and not just a remake...then you're a snob.

As far as I can tell, Ryuki and Dragon Knight are only similar in that they use the same fight footage.

Oops Split Lip beat me to it.

Anyway, Fourze.

Fourze just got his first upgrade form change, never been a big fan of gold on Toku suits, for trims and what have you it looks fine but when the body colour is gold I just think it looks really tacky. That said electricity has always been a favourite element of mine as it always seems to be wielded by badasses but even then the Limit Break was pretty uninspiring, since Base States has already done stuff like taking the fight to space and what have you. Meh.

Still, I really like the Base Form and I still really like Gen as a character. At first the whole 'friends with everyone at the school' thing seemed kinda dumb, but then it reminded me of what Roggenbuck said, 'if someone hates on you, be nice to them back, because then they have to deal with that and whatever issue brought them to hate on you in the first place' or something like that. Gen just has a lot of heart, and a lot of conviction, different to Godai though is he actually acts and shows aspects of these convictions. It makes his interactions with Kengo especially really fun to watch.

Still more active than Other Toku Serires. :(