OK. I'm going to be really frank here. If you can't see the bias, then you're absolutely, completely, horrifically ignorant or you're in absolute denial. (Maybe you're wearing the ever effective Nintendo fanboy goggles that so many Smash players love?) Or, hopefully, you haven't just looked at the bigger picture.

-Kid Icarus has three representatives. That's more then both DK and Metroid, two far bigger franchises
-Pit got a complete move-set overhaul. The only move he had in Brawl that is still here is the Arrow. It should be noted that every single move Pit had that wasn't directly attributed to KI:U (the game Sakurai developed) has been cut.
-While Pit gets a complete move-set overhaul, Ganondorf is still a Falcon clone
-Kirby, likewise, got new moves. Kirby and Pit are the only two characters that got new moves that weren't from a "transformation" move being cut
-Kirby, Dedede and Pit are the only characters that got new Final Smashes except for Luigi and Lucario that weren't born out of complete necessity.
-Palutena is the only character (except Mii Fighter) to have more then 4 moves. She has twelve. The custom moves of every other character are simply variations of their normal moves (like moves faster or has a slightly different effect)
-Dark Pit is given a completely new Final Smash. Falco still has Landmaster. Dr Mario still has Mario Finale. Sheik still has Light Arrow. Toon Link still has Triforce Slash. Lucina still has Critical Strike. See where this is going?
-Kid Icarus. Sorry. Kid Icarus: Uprising has 6 new items, making it the franchise with by far the most new items in the game. One of these items is a "collect for the ultimate power" item, like the Dragoon. Also from a Sakurai game. In a single game, Kid Icarus now has more item representation then Metroid, DK, Fire Emblem, Mother, F-Zero... In fact Pokemon, Mario and Zelda (by 1 item) are the only franchises with more items. Note that all six new items came from a single game, while the previous three franchises have items spanning from hundreds of games.
-DK, one of Nintendo's biggest franchises right now with games more popular and better received then KI:U could ever hope got exactly ZERO Assist Trophies, ZERO new stages, ZERO newcomers and ZERO items
-Metroid only got slightly better with one new Assist Trophy, no newcomers, one new stage and no new items
-Smash Run is populated by more Kid Icarus: Uprising enemies then any other franchise. 16 Kid Icarus enemies, opposed to next highest, which is Mario (11).

... Do I need to go on?

And "Who"? Are you kidding me?

-Wolf
-Ivysaur
-Squirtle
-Ice Climbers
-Lucas

All cut. Ivysaur, Squirtle and Ice Climbers were even three completely original characters. Not a single character on the roster comes close to their unique ways of playing. I don't shed a tear personally for Lucas and Wolf, but the cuts have been pretty significant.

And no, 100% suited to my taste would have had no cuts, Skull Kid newcomer, Dixie Kong newcomer, Dark Samus newcomer, Ridley newcomer and Bayonetta as a third party newcomer plus an overhauled Ganondorf and tweaked move-sets and Final Smashes on many other characters (ironically neither Kirby nor Pit needed tweaks). Either way, even people who are 100% content with the roster should see where there's a problem.

Metroid got two assist trophies (Mother Brain and Dark Samus).
But I didn't notice DK didn't get much love in this game. Kind of sucks, considering Tropical Freeze was pretty fun.

So has anything been said about Ice Climbers being cut? I can't find the post now (or maybe it wasn't even here) but I remember reading somebody making an offhand brief comment that it was said they wouldn't work for the 3DS for some odd reason. Even if I didn't play them often, they were fun when doing random matchups.

Speaking of Random... Yeah, I'm just gonna ignore everything you're saying basically. It doesn't seem you really get what anyone's trying to say.

Some BS about the 3DS not being able to control both 'Climbers at once. Although apparently the 3DS is more powerful then the Gamecube and Rosalina and Luma function similarly so...

Also, ROB has been unlocked, prompting the message "A new All Star Mode has been unlocked! Defeat all of the fighters!"

http://i.imgur.com/hZVKQ1R.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/SdecBGR.jpg

So... We're done here. The ESRB leak was indeed the full roster and the Mii Fighters disappear from the main roster once the whole roster is unlocked, so that explains their absence in the leak.

I can't even begin to start making sense of that. *sigh*

I thought it was a case of the 3DS only being able to handle so many characters on screen at a given time (including assist trophies/pokeballs etc.) and the Ice Climbers tipped the balance of that?

*shrug* I haven't been following the specifics of the game for a while, I just remember seeing that somewhere.

There's absolutely no need to get so hostile, I just don't see the problems you do. Maybe there's more things included from certain games, but I don't see any kind of hidden agenda or attempt to push certain franchises over others in some grand conspiracy.

-Wolf and Lucas I expained in my last post. I'll also remind you that back when Wolf was announced for Brawl, people were just as furious as they are with Dark Pit.

-Ice Climbers seem to be gone due to hardware limitations. Considering all the transformation characters were switched to separate characters, that seems pretty believable.

-Squirtly/Ivysaur were MORE Pokemon and MORE gen 1 Pokemon, which is part of the reason I think we've lost Mewtwo as well. I love both of them, but we don't need that many Pokemon and if we do, there should be a bit more variety. They were never going to be in without the Pokemon Trainer, Greninja and Charizard were just better selections.

Of course I see there's problems with the roster and of course there's characters I would have liked to see included, I just think there's a ridiculous amount of childish rage over it that's completely unnecessary.

https://33.media.tumblr.com/52720bbb...8um6o1_400.gif

That fucker...

I'm sorry but that's bull, Rosalina and Luma have the same thing as the Ice climbers. There was no reason to remove the Ice climbers in favor of Rosalina.

Are you still on about Rosalina? Fucking christ...It'd be as if I made certain to include bitching about Ridley's lack of inclusion ever other post...

Anyway, a friend of mine is joking that PETA is gonna throw a bitchfit over being able to drop kick the Duck Hunt Dog :p

While I'm a little bummed over losing Wolf (Hopefully Fox or Falco will have custom opitions that ape his playsytle) overall I'm mostly impressed.

DK getting the short end is a royal bummer and while I can understand not wanting to bring attention to Metroid for a while due to Other M being well, Other M and Kid Icarus and Kirby having the most love due to Sakurai having worked on them I do have to take slight issue with Meta Knight, but I have hope he'll be around tolerable levels here.

I think this could be the definitive Smash. The characters seem balanced so far, we have 46 or so characters to use, a speed that's faster than Brawl, LOADS of stuff to find....

I'd go on but I'll make it shortband sweet: We could be looking at the game that may overthrow Melee and challenge Project M. That's a pretty big deal and I'llbe there to get my two games ASAP.

Didn't they confirm that they nerfed Meta Knight?
I can't say for certain since I can't cite my source of where I heard that, but I'm fairly certain they did.

Sorry about being hostile. I agree I was a little too aggressive over a video game character. Chalk it up to insanity from watching the streams for an inhumane amount of time, I guess.

But I still think the bias towards Kid Icarus is painfully obvious and I don't think the rage is "childish" so much as "completely justified". I honestly think that half the frustration would be gone had he just made Dark Pit an alt like he should be. I know Dark Pit probably isn't "stealing roster slots" or anything, but giving him as much fanfare as a proper newcomer in the game is very testing.

I agree that Pitoo should have been an alt palette, rather than a separate character. I didn't mind Palutena being added, because I like her, and I'm ok with Kid Icarus getting 2 representatives, but 3 representatives? Kid Icarus has only had 3 games between the NES and now (I think one of those didn't come to the U.S. but it doesn't really matter, since Nintendo's a Japanese company, they put the Japanese first). Whereas Metroid has had tons of games, and we still only get Samus. To be fair, though Sakurai somewhat balances out his bias towards his own games, I mean he doesn't make Fire Emblem, and that has four representatives in Smash 4.

Pit, Palutena and Dark Pit were constantly ranked very highly in Japanese character polls (Pit himself typically taking the no.1 spot). It wouldn't surprise me if that was the reason for the series getting so much attention here, more than anything else.

Let's just be glad Waluigi never made it in, considering he was frequently there too :p

I would have killed for Waluigi :(

You know who I would've killed for?
I'm sure everyone does at this point. I've only been screaming for him for 2 years :lol

I wanted Tetra :(

Wind Waker HD was probably my last shot at it too :lol

I highly doubt that, its not just the roster that makes Sakurai's bias so inarguably apparent, but OK.

Anyway, here's some new info regarding Final Smashes that no one's mentioned here:

-Dark Pit's Final Smash is a "clone" of Zelda/Sheik's. He pulls out his gun and fires in a straight line, with a slow-mo close up of those caught in the line of fire before launching them away.
-ROB has a new Final Smash very similar to Samus'. He fires a huge beam across the stage.
-Ness' PK Starstorm Final Smash has been redesigned. It is now very similar to Lucario's old Aura Storm. The meteors form a beam in the center of the stage that can be tilted towards enemies.
-Charizard's Final Smash is the same as Yoshi's outside of a new physical attack. Mega Charizard X flies around and can either shoot fire balls (Fire Blast- they explode into the "Dai" Kanji) or charge opponents. It only lasts 15 seconds.
-Lucario's new Mega Lucario Final Smash is very similar to Wario's. For a short time his attacks are super powered.

Footage of Dark Pit, Ness and Charizard FS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJGxwzH4O54

As for who should've been there, Ridley is the obvious candidate. The demand for him as a playable character is huge. Nintendo seems to thrive on doing their own thing instead of actually listening to their customers and providing what is wanted. Dixie Kong also deserved to be in the game.

Also... Bayonetta was made for Smash. It'd have been the perfect way to solidify her new Nintendo-exclusive position as well as be the coolest character on the roster.

And since we're listing our wishes, either Skull Kid and Birdo along with Bayonetta would be my "if I got to choose any character no matter what, it'd be them" options.

When it comes to the roster, I find myself... Satisfied. It certainly isn't what I hoped for and certainly doesn't come close to achieving its full potential, but its not downright crap like the other recent super-hyped Nintendo game; Mario Kart 8. There's infuriating roster choices like Dark Pit and awful cuts like Ice Climbers (and Ivysaur... Sniff) but it doesn't have crap like Metal Mario, Pink Gold Peach, five babies and NINE cut unique characters.

Honestly I think Tetra should've replaced Sheik the second transformations were cut. Sheik only really existed as a gimmick for Zelda and she's not really very relevant. Her major defining characteristic was her Magical Harp and three games in and she still doesn't touch it in any of her moves!

Depressing fact: "Toon Zelda" and "Toon Sheik" are listed in Brawl as two characters that were never finished (along with Roy, Mewtwo, Dr. Mario, Dixie Kong and Plusle and Minun). I imagine "Toon Sheik" was Tetra...

New vid with everyone's Final Smashes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iNtQ5po9zY

I've decided that i will be using the Duck hunt dog. :lol

Waluigi gets a bum rap at times, but he's pretty cool. Plus at least both Mario and Luigi have his colors as alts. It's not much but it's a start.

Maybe in SSB5 we'll get both Wario Bros as playable characters.

Kinda sucks that, even with Shiek requiring a new down+B out of necessity, she still doesn't get her harp. Oh well.

*Sighs* Ridley.
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/i/20...de-d5v4db7.jpg
One day...

Got the demo currently downloading as I type.

Excite!

I wish i could play that demo.

Oh? Cools~
Unfortunately, I'm in the group that got the shaft that both gets the demo next week and can only play it 30 times *Cry*

Did you get the normal demo or the club Nintendo demo?

What's the difference between the two anyway?

Regular has the 30 limit, while those who got it thorough club Nintendo can play it without the limit.

I dont have a 3DS and was only ever planning to get the Wii U version. So I cant play either.

Awesome! Unfortunately I didn't get one, but I look forward to trying it out next week!

Club Nintendo. Although I'm not really sure how it works in Europe as our rewards scheme doesn't have gold/platinum status like yours.

Its taking me a little time to get used to the handheld controls, but I'm loving the game so far (well, the one level I can play anyway). Villager is my new bro.

I'm playing the demo right now.
This is so much fun. :lol

Though i find it disappointing that there's only 5 characters here, how am i supposed to get the hang of the newcomers when the only two are Villager and Megaman?

By getting the real game.

That's not the point of a demo...

Damn it! I wasn't to play the demo now. :cry

EDIT: did you two get three other codes for the demo? If you still have any, is it possible for you to give me one? :o

Okay, after playing the demo for a while, out of the 5 characters available Megaman is my best one.

I'm okay with Pikachu and i stink with the others, but every match i played with Megaman i won it. :lol

God i feel like a kid on christmas morning with this demo. :lol

M E G A
MEGARANGER
...Er...Man!

I can't wait to get to play~

I meet all the requirements for the demo, but I have Nintendo emails switched off.

Much rage.

I've been playing the same stage, with the same character for 3 hours now.
Why am i not tired of this yet? :lol

I found that earlier today :lol