Oh no! Pressure!

The thing I'm liking most about the newer love triangle, even beyond the fact that it's got 2-4 really intriguing romantic groupings (who wants to lie and say that Yuri and Maya didn't have some sparks in that beach scene), is that it all feels a lot more grounded and relatable than the previous triangle.

The story could go in a lot of different directions, but it feels like the show's already laying tracks to talk about things like dependability, passion, accountability, trust, chance vs design, and a bunch more. It's already full of things that anyone that's been in a relationship can recognize, from the excitement of figuring out how someone fits into your life (and vice versa) to the weird trepidation that comes with figuring out if you're in love with a person, or with chasing a person.

I wish we didn't have to go through all of that Jiro stuff, but I'm very excited to see what the show wants to do now.

But Nago's learned that it's okay to deceive people in pursuit of his goals! What could possibly go wrong?

...He says, before immediately proving my point. :p

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/kiva/truegami.png

Oh, man, it's another one of Inoue's Guys: Truegami from Agito! That terrible human-supremacist cop from Faiz! (And a Worm in Kabuto, I think!)

KAMEN RIDER KIVA EPISODE 27 - "80s: ANGRY RISING BLUE”

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/kiva/kiva27a.png

I don't know that I really liked this episode very much, but there's a thing I really respected about its construction: It's a Nago spotlight episode, and that extends to its storytelling. Nago's a dude who does not stand for obfuscation or dissembling or introspection, and so neither does this episode. It's blunt in a way that... yeah, I didn't really like the experience of watching it, but I sort of respected its bizarre principles. Like Nago!

It's an insane episode, though, for how the plot unfurls. Gotta commend it for that, too.

It starts off with Megumi getting arrested for a crime she didn't commit, eliciting a heartfelt and supportive You Probably Did It But I'll Make Certain from Nago. Then Shima gets nabbed for a crime he didn't commit, and Nago's like Ugh Fine There's Maybe A Chance This Is All A Setup But I'm Not Convinced. (I absolutely love how Shima doesn't consider the possibility of someone framing W.A.K.E.U.P. agents until he gets pinched. He is totally okay with Megumi getting sent to jail on bullshit charges!) From there, it's only a quick monster fight until Nago himself is made a target of the police.

The best part of this whole sequence, beyond Kengo's delight at officially becoming Nago's student, is how stock this story is - heroes framed for a crime by a villain! - until you make Nago the protagonist. He's so colossally unsuited to freeing wrongly accused friends, since a) he doesn't even believe in the term "wrongly accused”, and b) he doesn't even believe in the term "friends”. Megumi and Shima might as well be asking Rook to free them. Putting Nago in a position of altruistic heroism is so uncomfortable for him, and it's a really cool starting place for this story.

It's also the best section of this episode, because, uh.

The first thing to go wrong is Rising IXA, which... I mean, what the hell is even going on with Rising IXA. It's got a cellphone that appears out of thin air, like we're watching Faiz or something (it even unlocks with a variation on Kaixa's 9-1-3 code!), and then it's just a mess of a suit. The chest panel is now some red starburst furnace? The helmet is a samurai? There's a heart-shaped choker?! And the color palette, man. Red and blue and white and gold and silver? Crazy. Way too busy. I don't know why I was expecting more from the W.A.K.E.U.P. design team that gave us the Ixcavator, but I suppose I was. I guess some things just peaked in the 80s.

Well, maybe not everything was great in the 80s. After getting rescued from the cops by Tanahashi, a painter who IXA nearly killed back in '86, we finally get the details of this scheme. Tanahashi blames IXA and all of W.A.K.E.U.P. not just for his injuries, but for the mysterious disappearance of his muse: Maya! Since his recovery in the late 80s, Tanahashi has - and I swear to god that this is his explanation - trained to be a cop, spending decades rising through the ranks, all to have the kind of authority that would allow him to frame multiple people for crimes.

Like, what. WHAT.

Even for an Inoue plot, it's completely bonkers. This guy fought crime or pushed papers or whatever, for 22 years, so that one day he could ruin a bunch of lives. I'm not even going to get into the whole So Did You Never Care About Helping People part of him being, I'd assume, a fairly great cop. (He got promoted a ton, so he must've been effective.) He considers what he's doing is justice, I'd guess. I mean, it's just vengeance, nothing special, but it's clear he thinks he's doing the world a favor. It's just... dude was a 30-something painter in 1986. Is that the sort of recruit that's going to fly up the ranks in the police? And, shit, why look at an organization you despise and say The Only Way To Defeat Them Is To Dedicate My Life To Justice And Then Subvert It? Like, it's three people who do all their work out of a cafe! Just open up a competing cafe and you can end their whole group! You could be out of the Vengeance racket in way less time!

But anyway, Tanahashi just straight-up tells Nago all of this in maybe my favorite moment in the episode. It's a ridiculous, laughable scheme, but Tanahashi isn't looking to trick Nago with subterfuge or anything. He wants IXA to know that he's doing all of this so that IXA suffers the most. It's a total supervillain move, giving the game away specifically to taunt the hero. It's theatrical in all of the best ways. It's the exhilarating cherry on top of an idiotic sundae.

It gets worse/better, though. Oh, does it ever.

So, Nago's boxed in. Tanahashi's already taken out 2/3rds of W.A.K.E.U.P., and confiscated the IXA Knuckle to boot. If only IXA hadn't ruined Tanahashi's life 22 years ago, none of them would be in this mess now. If only Nago could go back in time and fix things!

Which, he can? Thanks to a not-trapped Jiro? And a Castle Doran that was underground? And Castle Doran's heretofore-unmentioned Time Door? That sends Nago back to 1986, to interact with Otoya and Yuri?

I'm pretty sure this is the point where I completely checked out of this episode. I admire the goddamn brass balls of Inoue to resolve a complicated problem with Time Door, but, come on. It's such a massive cop-out that I could not have been less interested in what happened next. The entire plot ceased having any appreciable stakes or consequences, because, like, what if there's a Nago Wins door, too. It's phenomenally lazy, even by Inoue standards. Just... Time Door. Man. Whatever.

The rest of the episode is the rest of the episode. Nago is judgmental about Otoya and Yuri moving in together, Maya has that face, and Wataru tells an absolutely out of nowhere story to Shizuka about a friend he had as a child that I find difficult to believe he never once told Shizuka about his literally only ever friend before her. The Taiga stuff would be ham-fisted in any other episode, but in this one it was just another baffling story element that floated along without feeling tied to any story or character logic. (Seriously, this never came up before with Shizuka, but it suddenly does now?)

Not a great episode! Started off pleasant enough, with the sort of head-down, business-first attitude we'd expected from a Nago-driven story. But then Time Door, and it's not really about much. (It's a Nago story! He's not deep enough to support a story about anything! And he prefers it that way!) It's one of those Things Happen tokusatsu stories, where it's not really doing anything fun with allegory or metaphor, but it's all-in on bizarre circumstances and poorly-explained developments. It's fine as a time-waster, but I honestly thought this series had progressed beyond that type of story by now.

Who'd've thought that a story focused on the most aggressively unlikeable Kiva character (2008 Division) would end up being a disappointment? Shocking development!

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/kiva/kiva27b.png

...

https://i.imgur.com/bjK0fva.png

Huh.

It's a very weird design!

So this episode and the next set up my favorite personal head canon for Kiva. A corrupt cop goes after the Wonderful Blue Sky Organization and goes after all of its members: Shima, Megumi, and Nago. Just them; nobody else. I don't think there is a WBSO. I think it's legitimately just some weird dude and whoever else he can convince to fight Fangires for him.

Don't worry about it. I'm sure this story is purely just random trivia and not a shortcut to introduce a new character.

Forget it, Kamen Rider Die, it's Kiva.

So here we are at the appearance of my favourite random shot form the series: golden mouthed IXA.

One thing I like is that we get to see the new upgrade in the first fight of the storyline rather than the last (the only other cases of this I can think of are Grand Zi-O and Geiz Majesty). And instead of some personal journey, heroic willpower of friendship, or being invented because the last fight had no conclusion, they’re just “you have a phone now. Use it”. If it had defeated a monster in its first fight, my happiness would’ve been completed.

And since there are not one Fangire, but TWO Fangire (does a Count von Count laugh), here’s this episode’s Fact Fangire-le.

Crab Fangire

True name: The Decoy That Imitated a Sternum and a Dictionary (辞書や胸骨を模した囮 Jisho ya Kyōkotsu o Moshita Otori)

Human identity: N/A

Class: Aqua

Rank: Pawn

Actor: Takayuki Masada (voice)

Cicada Fangire

True name: The Dressing Table Grieving the Half Brother's Strange Attitude (異母兄の衒奇を憂う化粧台 Ibokei no Genki o Ureu Keshōdai)

Human identity: N/A

Class: Insect

Rank: Pawn

Actor: Takeshi Mito

The time door here exists as set up for its much bigger role in the movie.

Deleted scenes this time: Megumi tries to plead her innocence and then tries to break the jail. The key word both times being “tries”

Remember how I said I was going to complain about IXA's final form when it appeared? Now is that time. And you've already brought up a lot of the same reasons why I don't like IXA Rising.

But before that, I will mention that the IXAriser phone comes from his mouthplate, which may be a Showa reference to Kamen Rider X's detachable Perfecter mouthplate, considering that X is the middle letter of IXA and their given names are both Keisuke as well, except with slightly different kanji.

Save and Burst Mode give the impression of a high-tech modern crusader, which is perfect for being exactly what Nago considers himself to be. But Rising just kind of exists as a purely technological upgrade without adding anything to the theme. Honestly, I think all those electronic details make it look more generic and take away from the chivalrous knight design. It looks less Nago, which is the opposite of what it should look like! I mean, it's not quite Beast Hyper levels of lame, but I think it just does everything wrong. Frankly, I'm impressed you were even able to infer a samurai motif from the head, cause with so much going on, I can't tell what I'm looking at.

On one hand, Kiva's concept of time travel is very simple to understand. On the other hand, why is there suddenly time travel in Kiva? :lol

It's totally just a plot device without any explanation and I'm not even going to try and justify its existence, but at least the plot that it facilitates I think is pretty good in this Nago focus arc.

First of all, Nago accepts an offer from one of his arch enemy Kiva's friends. This shows that his development from the previous episode, feigning humility to be deemed worthy of IXA, continues here with him being willing to use the enemy's resource to accomplish a better long-term outcome, even if it makes his soul feel unclean for having to resort to that.

Secondly, Nago's adventure in 1986 allows him to have interaction with Otoya, similar to how Megumi met him in 2008 through Wataru as a medium, so this will be a chance for Otoya to tell Nago how much he sucks and what he needs to do to get better. Nago is here on his quest to fix the past, but again, that's just the story of this arc providing an admittedly lazy plot device to further the overall plot of the show. I think the best we can do here is work with the plot on its own terms and enjoy what happens between the characters. Cause if there's anything that Inoue excels at, it's character interactions.

Not exactly talking about him being disloyal, I said " He'd try to please every women as womanizers do that, but still.". While he did have more meaningful relationship to Yuri, I'd think his flirting to other women is also to entertain them, womanizers who actually value women, opposite to Spider Fangire, (but would be detrimental to non-women) would be an ally and protector to any women.

I'd wanna ask regarding Otoya being viewed as generally decent or even worse... "champion of justice". I thought before it's agreed that it's undebatable that everyone in this thread has pointed out that Otoya is awful, that we're all on the same page there.... and btw, those people who point out Otoya's nasty stuff are generally those who have watched Kiva in its entirety.

Admittedly, the bold, "macho jerk" trait Otoya had to be more aggressive in a relationship (not physically, but like shameless filrting, etc.), to approach girls out without the fear of being seen as intrusive is the one that saves the day here, something that can change Maya's mind regarding humans. I'd think that power or intelligence doesn't necessarily equate to morality but is something that contributes the most for saving the day, and I'd also think power doesn't only come in the form of fighting prowess, which is what I'd say for Otoya's case here, he had the charisma and charm to attract women, as shown in his debut to temporarily take away a women from fiancee. He's doing that all for hedonism and pleasure (along with those getting their lives ruined by Otoya), and at one point also enraged a woman Fangire who Otoya charmed but ditched shortly for Yuri, which is how I talk about it not equating to morality, but for this one, it potentially can make Maya change alignments. Otherwise, would agree that love is power, in contrast to how antagonistic force (not talking about Maya here) usually cites that as weakness.

For the resolve part, this is similar to the Japanese Spirit trope that I talked about earlier regarding Megumi moving with gimped leg. Love is often interchangable with something like friendship, which uses up non-romantic type of love towards their friends, and used as something to give characters resolve to overcome the odds. Either friendship or romantic love, those are the ones already be memed (not in a good way!) by community, as it can feel deus ex machina to some to have someone be reminded of love and suddenly overcomes the obstacle.

This is a clever trick yeah for Megumi, if someone is willing to temporarily put away their pride. Megumi actually submits into Spider Fangire's love to her, until . Actually my opinion for this scene is that this has been commonly used in media to portray men's total weakness being women, and can be used to pain men as being beneath women, which can instead make me pissed seeing it, but for this one, it's satisfying to see a depraved Ryo Itoya getting the just desserts for his lecherous approach. For Nago, this seems to be the opposite for him compared to Kusaka, that he's actually like most secondary Riders, he developed to be better. I don't know if status quo of Nago's nasty trait will apply for next Nago part though, I know little about Kiva.

Would hard agree here yeah, Mio's execution of Spider Fangire is outright genius, and really an ironic way to end the depraved Fangire's life. They beg for Mio to serve her role as a Queen, and had been committing brutality to her, and Spider Fangire is ended exactly because of their begging for Mio to do that, as Spider Fangire has loved a human, like what the Queen forbids, and thus Mio can do good here with her Queen role to save the day instead.

I'd prefer to not paint something as good or bad actually (though I can seem to do either), I meant to use a neutral term to describe the part of love traingle here btw, though I searched it again and "egregious" seems to be a negative term, seems my mistake there. Likely the word I'm looking should be something like "blatant".

Castle Doran's theme is used in this episode as Nago first takes in the scenery of 1986, and it fits so perfectly it gave me an appreciation for this one I didn't really have at first. It's a super chill track and yet has this sense of mystery to it, like some big discovery is jjjjjjjust around the corner or something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuL06iBiS1Q

Moving on to the episode, I'd like to thank Die for practically giftwrapping another opportunity to defend dumb things in Kamen Rider.

Even if Kiva is the one with the actual golden power this series, Rising Ixa is still a cool upgrade form in its own right. I mean, Ixa puking out a cellphone will never not be hilarious, but there's a lot of legitimate thought that went into this design – including right there, as they wanted to emphasize Ixa's technological nature by having his power up not be something that's just summoned into existence like magic, so instead they did a weird homage to Kamen Rider X. The emphasis on mechanical detail is also because the color palette is actually completely unchanged (it's just laid out differently), since it already had an emphasis on typical power-up colors like gold and silver. I mean, he already had the dramatically transforming helmet; why not complete the Kabuto homage and have him Cast Off while you're at it? (That choker was also always there, by the way.) It's really a pretty straightforward progression, taking Ixa's sun theming to the next level by having the "cloudy" white replaced by the blue of a clear sky as the sun on his chest shines with its full might.

So you can sit here and say the 80's design was way better and more iconic, Die, but 2008 is a different time, and just because an aesthetic is busier doesn't mean it's inherently worse, and I don't even see why it's a big deal that Optimus Prime has flames now why are you even saying that!

...Wait, what were we talking about again? Oh, right, Ixa! Ixa! Yeah, I'm actually not a huge fan of Rising Ixa either. But really, I think it's strictly a case of Ixa already being so perfect more than anything actually wrong with the new one. (And while I'm clearing things up, the "193" code is meant to be read as "I-ku-sa" here, because wordplay.)

Another reason I'm inclined to be soft on Rising Ixa is because I genuinely appreciate how it's integrated into the story, with Nago getting it right away and that actually being a problem, as he fails to grasp how to use it. Come to think of it, that's pretty much a Kuuga form introduction right there, so... yeah, no wonder I like it. Still as fun a subversion as ever.

Everything else about the story... I think my argument in favor of it is literally the same as yours against it? I guess we'll see if the second part of the story raises your opinion on what it's doing with that arbitrary premise any, but like Sh Ranger said, I think a cheap plot device or two can be in service of other, more legitimately interesting parts of the story. I honestly love a lot about the idea of Nago being the guy to get this quest in the past where he's there simply to prove he can do someone's job from 22 years ago better than them. He's the guy in the show with some of the least connection to '86, and probably the least investment in connections in general. The contrast between the backstory with his dad and the relationship between Wataru and Otoya highlights this. He's all about himself and his code, so the concept of him tearing through the show's entire backstory with zero appreciation for the significance of anything around him (the last frame of this one is him about to punch Otoya), entirely focused on The Mission, while getting a chance to bounce off of those characters? Definitely potential enough to be worth a sudden Time Door, if you ask me.

FINALLY, another 80 design liker!! I know a lot of people find it pretty strange and weird but that's what I like about it; it's very alien as an Ultraman should be and it manages to strike the balance between emphasising that while also being cute in its own way. Not my favourite in the franchise or anything, but it's pretty great! Even works for him looking like a bit of a dorky teacher, as he should!

(Optimus having flames is pretty decent by the by, but I'm a Cybertron kid; I'm inherently biased towards him being a fire engine and having a sick super form)

W.A.K.E.U.P. is half cult, half multi-level marketing scheme. Shima's convinced two people that it's their holy crusade to each convince two other people to join their holy crusade, and then those four people each convince two people to join, and so on.

Shima's big presentation is peak Inoue Upgrade storytelling: they're just in a gym, and Shima's like Congrats Here's An Upgraded IXA Knuckle as he just tosses it into Nago's lap. It's so borderline-disrespectful that I kind of appreciate it? It's also got this weird thing, where Shima says he's made a decision on who should be IXA, and it's Nago. Like... who else was even in the running?! The only two choices 2008 has ever had for IXA were Nago and Nobody. Tough decision for Shima!

I found this part extraordinarily weird, because literally no one in the 2008 cast (besides Shima) has had any interaction with the Arms Monsters. And this is Nago's first time meeting a Clawolve! When Jiro just pops out from behind a tree to invite Nago inside a Dragon Cathedral to use the Time Door!

I just didn't feel like the enormity of all of this was something the show was paying off. I think the only thing Nago even says to Jiro is "The Door of Time?", so it's not like there's a ton of energy expended on the weirdness of this pairing.

This is a thing where, again, I like the idea of a Nago version of the Megumi/Otoya plot being incredibly literal and straight-forward, but it means there's a lot less to enjoy performance-wise (it's just standard-issue Otoya and Nago), and very little in the way of deeper subtext to those interactions.

I haven't watched it all, obviously, but it seems like he's a in the middle of a character arc? One that has him acting heroically? And becoming a Kamen Rider?

Don't say I never did nothing for you!

I guess my response would be to agree with all of the sentiment there, that Nago's whole I'm Not Here To Make Friends thing makes him an exciting choice to send back to 1986, except I would say that Nago's disinterest is way more exciting in 2008. Nago not caring about some disobedient child's dad (who was also IXA) and Megumi's mom, except to chide them for their sinful living arrangement, that's fine. But Nago being largely unmotivated to save his partner and his boss from prison? Way funnier to me. As soon as Nago was out of the immediate confines of his coworkers, I just... I just longed for him to be back in 2008, motivating Kengo and disappointing Megumi and endangering Wataru. Nago's constant disregard for anything but his increasingly-flexible moral code just works better for me when there's more collateral damage.

It’s my night off from Kamen Rider Kiva, so let’s talk Kamen Rider Decade.

One of the best things about doing these Watch threads is getting to share the experience with all of you. Beyond the need to clear my brain of Kamen Rider thoughts so it can function at a manageable level, the chance to talk about these shows with knowledgeable, passionate fans is the main reason I’m here. Writing an episode post, and then getting to spend a day talking about it? I can’t see how it could get better than that.

Well, there’s one way. What if you all helped write the episode posts for Decade?

I try not to ask for much, but I’ve been wanting to do this since I thought of it, like, a year ago. Nothing would make me happier than to work with you all on TOKUNATION WATCHES KAMEN RIDER DECADE. I hope you’ll be willing to give me a hand with it!

I’m open to tweaking the following process (please give a shout in this thread or via PM if you’ve got a suggestion!), but here’s how I’m thinking this will work.

The only requirements are a little bit of time (maybe a couple non-consecutive hours), a passion for something from Heisei Phase 1, the ability to watch a couple episodes of Decade, and the willingness to jump on Discord to chat a bit about Kamen Rider with me.

Sound good? Let’s talk specifics.

First, make a list of the three shows from Phase 1 Heisei, including Decade, that you’re most passionate about. All ten shows, pick the three you feel strongly about, love or hate. Rank ‘em from The Show You’d Most Want To Cover on down.

Second, PM that list to me. You’ve got until the end of the Kiva thread (early July?) to decide if you want to pitch in and get me your picks. After that, I’m going to start breaking down the bids and figuring out how best to cover all of Phase 1. I’ll try to give people something they’re excited for, but I’m going to be weighing the assignments towards previous participation. If someone was super active in the Hibiki thread and wants to cover Hibiki, that’s going to make a difference.

Third, have some way that we can chat online. My preference is Discord, but I’m open to alternatives if anyone would prefer. Whatever the platform, it needs to be a chat room-style interface (something with immediate text responses) and I need to be able to copy and paste the chat log. I don’t want to exclude anyone who’s interested, so I’m willing to make changes if necessary.

(To be clear! This is all going to be done via text, not audio recording. If you're comfortable typing things out on a message board, I hope you'll feel comfortable typing things out in a chat room. I know some folks don't love how their voice sounds, or don't want to participate in a non-typed discussion. I got you covered!)

Fourth, sometime in the month after the Kiva thread closes, we’ll figure out an hour where we can both get online to chat. It’s going to be a pretty brief overview of your Kamen Rider journey: how’d you get into it, what have you found in the fandom, why this one Heisei show, that sort of thing. I know everyone’s got different levels of sharing that they’re comfortable with, so my intention is to keep things Kamen Rider focused. Nothing you wouldn’t normally feel comfortable discussing here on TokuNation. If you feel like sharing more? I mean, I have massively overshared on these boards; you do you.

Fifth… so, here’s where things get tricky, and the stage where I am most looking for some help with logistics. Since I don’t like looking ahead, I can’t really schedule this part. My plan is to watch two episodes of Decade at a time. Once I know what show they’re celebrating/homaging/stripmining (by watching those two episodes), I’ll shoot a message to the appropriate volunteer. (Like, if I watch Episodes 7 and 8, and they’re The Blade Episodes, I’ll shoot a message to the Blade volunteer.) After that, we’ll figure out a good period of time in the next couple days where we can both get online to talk about those episodes of Decade. How did they work as Decade episodes, how did they work as a celebration of the relevant Heisei show, that sort of thing. Basically the kind of thing I do here, just with two people typing back and forth.

Sixth, I dump the chat logs from our initial conversation, as well as the episode coverage, and format everything into a post for everyone on TokuNation to enjoy.

I think that’s it? My hope is to make everything as simple and stress-free for the folks helping out as possible. I know that Step 5 is pretty last-minute, but hopefully 48 hours notice is good enough? And if you look at the episode guide, you can have a pretty good idea of when you’ll be called up. The plan is to do two groups of two episodes each week, and those posts’ll drop whenever they’re ready. So, if your Heisei show gets covered in Decade 15-16, you’ll probably need to be ready in the second half of Week 4.

I really hope you’ll feel like taking part. Decade is a celebration of the first ten years of Heisei, and I’d love for the Decade thread to be a celebration of the last year or so of TokuNation fandom. Thanks so much for reading this over, and I hope we'll be able to watch some Kamen Rider Decade together!

I'm down! I look forward to my top 3 faves getting taken by people way more qualified than I am. :lol

Oh interesting.

Hello there, just little old me, lurking. I've been peaking in and out of threads ever since the end of Den-O and I was actually planning on jumping in full time on these once you started watching Decade. Mostly because I want to rewatch some of the older stuff starting with Decade. Admittedly it's been so long since I've seen the few Phase 1 shows I've actually completed that I doubt I'd be qualified to really talk about them more than others ha ha. :lol

So I'll probably just sit back and let others do their own thing. But totally expect me to be more active in these whenever you start the Decade thread.

I can't really do live talk stuff like that, so instead I'll chip in by saying this ahead of time: the first episode of Decade is a standalone episode setting up the show and its characters not connected to any specific past show, with the tributes instead starting on episode 2. So the tribute 2-parters are 2-3, 6-7, 12-13 etc. And there's no breaks between them either! They go through the Heisei tributes one by one once they get started. I won't spoil which is which (it's probably obvious which ones are the first two though, right?), but that should give you a good idea of how to format the thread!

Don't worry, I'll make sure you get all of the sweet late-game Hibiki content you crave.

Also! Not related to DreamSword's comment, but I did want to clarify something in case there was any confusion. All of the chatting that'll happen to construct the Decade posts will be done via text/typing, not via audio recording. I've updated the original post, just in case. This project is, in my mind, just a lateral move from what we all do on these boards. It's something you're already great at! All of you!

Don't feel like you can't contribute just because you don't remember much of those shows, because I will definitely not remember much of those shows. I'm looking for enthusiasm, not encyclopedias. If you like Kamen Rider and have seen any other Phase 1 show, you've got all the qualifications I'm looking for!

Thanks! And, like I updated the post with, this is going to be a text thing through Discord, not a recording. And if the chatting thing doesn't work for some folks, I'm happy to make allowances! I don't want anyone who'd want to contribute to feel left out!

I also am pretty scared that I will not get many people to feel like playing along, and the whole thread is basically not going to happen in the way I've been hoping for! So that's also a thing!

Well in that case consider it a maybe, I'll need to think on it some more. But I do enjoy bouncing off people so I might join in.

Admittedly as I think on it, yeah I'm a weird guy at least in terms of watching Rider. Watched W, OOO, then Decade. And Decade basically decided the three Phase 1 Rider's I watched on the basis of "This looked cool" and that's that. Like I saw Decade, heard it was an anniversary type deal and am like "Sure let's hop in and have some fun" without any care in the world. That might've helped most of my perception on it at the time to where I never got a lot of the hate.

Ooh, that is a tempting offer. I know which episodes I'd want to do, too, but I'm afraid that they'd probably get too much into spoiler territory since they aren't part of the Heisei tributes (so actually not Hibiki). Will have to think about how to approach that.

I'm glad you'll give it some consideration!

I've heard from a few different fans that they came into Rider or Sentai through anniversary seasons, and that's really fascinating to me. I don't want to press too much on it (maybe we'll get a chance to talk about it for the Decade thread!), but it's so opposite from how I'd approach a franchise that it makes me curious. It sounds like it worked out for you!

Oh! Right! I heard there're some Showa ones, too. (There was a bunch of Showa stuff in the Decade/W movie I saw way back when.) If someone wants to put Showa on their list as a fourth choice, feel free!

I think this is lovely, and I would absolutely use this occasion to talk about the HK English dub if given half a chance, and I want to put myself forward... but I can't think of three Heisei shows including Decade that I am genuinely passionate about. Like all good people, I obviously like Hibiki, and ah, that's maybe it.

However, I acknowledge that there are a lot of shows after Hibiki that I did not watch, partly out of childish protest at the manner in which Toei dealt with that show—I know, I know, executives at Toei were no doubt screaming in panic at the sudden loss of their foreign cat lady demographic—so I would be happy to cover shows that no one else likes whilst going in totally blind if that helps? Please don't worry if this is not convenient though!

I'm looking forward to reading what you guys come up with regardless!

I am happy to make it work! It honestly doesn't need to be a list of three shows if you don't feel like you've got three that you're thrilled about. (And, to clarify something else, it does not have to be three shows you like, just shows you're passionate about. You can totally pick, like, Blade if you really didn't like Blade.) I will try to accommodate anyone who's interested in participating. Maybe it'll be Hibiki? Maybe it'll be the Showa stuff, where I also won't know anything about it? Maybe it can be a different set of episodes entirely. I don't know. If anyone reading this has even the slightest interest in pitching in, I want to make that happen.

Like... this is just a slightly codified version of what we're all doing right now! And all the time! Anyone who's like Oh I Don't Think I Could Talk About Kamen Rider Shows... I assure you that you can.

I don't... I don't want people to think I'm twisting their arms or anything. I just think you'd all be really good at this, and I think you'd help make something really fun and special. I'd hate for anyone to deprive themselves of that chance due to nerves or self-doubt. If you really aren't into the idea, that's fine. But if you're into the idea and you're talking yourself out of it? Please don't!

More clarifications!

Ideally, the roster of folks that'd be pitching in on this project would be 10. One for each Heisei Phase 1 show, including Decade. (I'd really, really love to kick things off with a Decade fan.) With the Showa stuff, maybe we could have someone double up for that part, I don't know. I don't know how often the Showa stuff comes up, if it's worth having an 11th Showa person.

So, when I say A List Of Three Shows, that's not me asking people to contribute for three different stories in Decade. That's just to give me some options for assignments and scheduling. Ideally, people are only responsible for one show; for only the Agito episodes of Decade, for example.

I hope this feels a little less daunting now!

This is such a charming paragraph in and of itself. <3

I will PM you in a tiny bit with no doubt unnecessary rambles!

Well, that would be king of awkward, considering Decade is the phase 1 show I’m the third most passionate about. If I had to pick a second, it would be Kabuto. Plus I already decided what my regular feature is for the next thread, so if I was helping write the main posts, I’m worried about it being redundant or unnecessary.

Not saying I wouldn’t like to take part in some form.

Very minor spoilers(I guess?) but it's for the sake of the project: Blade is the only Phase 1 show that gets two tributes instead of just one during Decade, and there's also a tribute to Shinkenger as well.. Won't say the context as to why, but yeah. So ya know, incase people who want in on this are really passionate about Blade or love Sentai more than others, there ya go.

I've read about the Decade talk, it's likely will be a different experience when it unfolds...

This refers to something I talked about before that (iirc) hasn't been responded yet; as a womanizer Otoya is only concerned about certain people, which is women in general, that he wants to entertain and protect any kind of them (but even more so for those he had meaningful relationship like Yuri), which is his primary reason to fight as a Kamen Rider. But as a womanizer he can be detrimental to non-women ones like for example males, which he'll likely be neglecting or potentially dangerous to them; a form of toxically masculine (yours was about how 'women didn't need to suffer' part though) to be hostile to other men and see them as oppositions.

Before I said too about how a womanizer has either 2 outcome, being fiercely protective to any women and likely detrimental to non-women (like Otoya), or being detrimental to the women itself for the objectification and tactless approach (like Spider Fangire). While Otoya doesn't have exactly zero decency traits, like a few of his amicable interactions with certain male which is Oomura before and Nago in this episode (and he still wants to gloat and gain glory for his deeds saving him), I'd (and likely those people who discuss about Otoya before that has watched entire Kiva) think it's a big stretch to label him as "generally decent" or "champion of justice" for being mainly caring and protective of only certain part of humans, like women only (applies likely either to "only loved ones" bias or sexism double standard as in Daisuke in Kabuto).

But yeah it'll be interesting to see how it unfolds as being framed for something isn't something that can be solved by brute force, if anything using brute force may just making it worse. Just thinking about how Megumi didn't fight back, but Nago did. Or that Wataru is still unbelievably weak in his human physique, that usually Riders are able to fend off monsters after fighting as them for a while, with Ryotaro as a notable exception as the one's doing the fighting the most are the Taros Imagins. But for Nago being made as a protagonist here, I'll talk about it below.

O̶b̶v̶i̶o̶u̶s̶l̶y̶,̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶s̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶p̶e̶a̶k̶e̶d̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶8̶0̶s̶,̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶p̶a̶s̶t̶ ̶e̶v̶e̶r̶y̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶u̶s̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶b̶e̶t̶t̶e̶r̶,̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶n̶o̶s̶t̶a̶l̶g̶i̶a̶ ̶g̶o̶g̶g̶l̶e̶s̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶r̶i̶g̶h̶t̶.̶ For IXA Rising, I guess this is an unusual type of form debut, to have it not be used as an absolute destroying of the opponent that fights them, albeit IXA Rising still shoots the opponent to the water nearby like Inoue's standard. But still while the form design may be worse (for form designs to every Rider I already got to know them with games like Climax Heroes), the important thing is the power it holds!

I think, Tanahashi is a reflection of Nago himself, he's done to likely represent what Nago was in the past. Like how Nago is hell-bent to destroy Kiva, same goes for Tanahashi to destroy IXA, and for Tanahashi, he's doing it because an incident in the past that he almost got killed due to IXA's attack, and likely same goes for Nago as he thinks Kiva is an evil incarnate. Nago is purposely made as the protagonist in the episode to deal with practically his own previous self, the one even more vicious as in never admitting mistakes or weakness (Nago did for weakness just at last episode). And Tanahashi looking at the organization that he despise and subverting it is a type of villainy that is similar to Kusaka (and Nago had Kusaka traits too before), gaining full prejudice (with pettiness) to everyone involved with the organization, without ifs, ands, and buts, which is to end every single people got involved with Aozora.

Though yeah, although it's not entirely known about Castle Doran, the solution here can seem like a cop out, to suddenly have something that allows people to time travel to the past. I'd say Otoya possessing Wataru in the present is similarly unexplained... yet. What I want to happen within Nago strolling in the past is to get to know about how both people are the parents of people he closely works with; Wataru for Otoya and Megumi for Yuri respectively. There's an ongoing conflict of Nago with Otoya for finding out that he's an IXA user too. Though probably it's not introduced the best way, Taiga is another major character for this series to be introduced this late, like Mio before. I don't know how and when Wataru and Shizuka met, but it seems that they met after him and Taiga are separated, and Wataru is always made fun or chastised by his timid nature like not having friends.

I don't think it would have to be! We can definitely chat more about plots and characters and stuff, so you could still do something more data-oriented separately. We can definitely figure out a way for you to do both, if you want.

All you Blade super-fans, here's your moment!

I don't think we've really got a big enough data-set to say that, like, Otoya won't protect men, or that he only protects people he cares about. Maybe previously some of that was true, but, again: character arc! He is a little better of a man than he was before! He's never going to be, like, Ryotaro from Den-O, but he's clearly growing as a person.

I'm sure that sounds like a challenge to Nago.

Interesting take! I'll have to keep an eye open for all of this in the next part. Really great analysis!

I have been summoned...

... even if I completely forgot what the second tribute was for a moment. In my defense, I haven't seen Decade in forever!

It's honestly a bit hard to call it a 'tribute' when it more or less amounts to surprising cameos

I guess it's a tribute insofar as it has elements from Blade in it. Like how Climax Deka is a Kiva movie!

Thanks for the reassurance.

KAMEN RIDER KIVA EPISODE 28 - "REQUEST: TIME-ALTERING BATTLE”

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/kiva/kiva28a.png

It's late! I'm tired! My day was very long! I might have to get up early tomorrow for a work thing! Let's see how this goes!

(One minor note. This was originally going to be the night where I watched the Kiva Net Movies, in preparation for the Kiva movie. Except, when I went to watch the first one, it turns out there were no subtitles on it. I'll try and track down another option in a little bit, but with sub stuff being what it is right now, I'm kind of doubtful I can scrounge something up. Just FYI.)

I thought this was okay. It's got a firm focus on Nago, and it says some interesting things about whether or not Otoya is fulfilled as IXA, but there are a few things that just didn't quite work for me.

I 100% do not get Nago's fascination with Maya. I mean, yes, that face, but Nago really loses himself over Maya to a very disturbing degree. She slaps him, chides him for interfering with art (a thing Nago does not value), and then he just starts stalking her? Maya (and her actor) try to give it some sense of reality by kind of gently coaxing an emotional response out of Nago, but I basically never bought Nago's reaction. I can sort of see it in a weird Nago gut instinct thing, where he's so used to following whatever hunch that comes into his brain that he's unable to figure out that he's lusting after some strange woman, at least until she points it out to him. But I just... it all feels really underexplained.

Like, the whole gimmick here is that Nago has fallen into a version of the show where love is the ultimate power, and that renders him powerless. So you've got Otoya telling him he's too inflexible and joyless to succeed, and you've got Maya asking him to stop extinguishing his passion, and those are nice scenes. At the end, Nago changes history so Tanahashi never was injured, and he's back in the present fighting Fangires, and he's able to win because he found his playful side? I don't really get it, and I don't really think it lands. It's the show telling us that Nago went on a huge, emotional journey, but I didn't feel it. At all.

I'll tell you what did work for me, though. It's the Maya/Otoya/Yuri stuff. That was goddamn electric, and it got at some real murky questions about relationships.

See, Otoya was an artist, but he fell in love with a warrior. To feel worthy of her love, and to earn her respect, Otoya became a warrior. In a lot of ways, he's a better man. It's to his credit that he's able to improve himself in the name of love. It's the power of love, transforming him into a hero.

To Maya, it's a tragedy. Otoya is an artist. To see him squandering his time on fighting... it's shameful. He's abandoned his true worth to placate Yuri. Otoya acting as a warrior is like Tanahashi abandoning art for revenge. It's hollow, and pointless. It's the power of love, blinding him to his diminished state.

I think the dilemma there is really clever. Who's right, Maya or Yuri? Is it better for Otoya to become someone more like Yuri? Or should he be with Maya, a woman who sees the worth of his artistry? Should we change for the people we love, or should the people we love not need us to change?

There's no real answer in this one, but you can see how it's going to be a bigger issue for the three of them down the line. It's a wedge in Otoya and Yuri's relationship that isn't really about Kamen Riders or Fangires, and that's why it's so fascinating to me. Is Otoya a warrior with the soul of an artist, or an artist who thinks he should be a warrior? Is he making himself happy, or just making Yuri happy? Real clever problem for these three.

Besides that, it was fine. The action sequences were fun (the Kengo/Wataru training scene was a funny diversion), and the additional clues in the mystery of Maya are sure to pay dividends (Taiga, the fact that Wataru's mother gave him the button Nago gave to Maya in 1986), but I didn't end up loving a lot of this episode. Everything with Maya was great, but I mostly didn't buy into Nago's arc over this story. When he does his little dance as Rising IXA at the end, I couldn't figure out how the episode thought it'd earned that. It's a story that clearly thinks its saying something profound about Nago, but it really just felt like a plot that went from A to A.

Weird to say this about an episode whose main plot didn't click with me, but this wasn't so bad. The non-Nago parts were all great, more than enough to offset the Nago story not connecting with me. It was fine.

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/kiva/kiva28b.png

Now we know Waterau is half fangire

I mean, I don't want to be It's Uncertain, since I pretty much thought Maya was Wataru's mom from the second she appeared, but the show leaves it a little uncertain. We just know that Wataru got the button from his mom, but we don't know that it maybe didn't pass from Maya to Wataru's mom at some point. There's a little bit of mystery left.

Maya is totally Wataru's mom, though.

I saw a lot of cut content from this episode yesterday. Including a scene where Nago denies feeling anything for Maya, Yuri stops believing he’s from the future when he tells her that her daughter is in prison, Present!Jiro revealing that this time travel gambit is part of a promise to Otoya and we see that in the new timeline, Tanahashi gave up art and became Aozora’s main bankroller (making me wonder how they were getting funded originally). And parts of the collection I watched features a scene from an earlier episode (I assume 25) where it turns out Nago actually gives better romantic advice than Megumi.

I would’ve shared Nago’s new character song (another lyrics change to Individual System, entitled Don’t Lose Yourself), but since I assume Fish is going to do that, I’m instead going to capitalise on the fact this episode, through that last scene of Wataru with the button he inherited, and share the first in a rough trilogy of songs about Otoya, entitled “Message - Tribute to Father” (I couldn’t find a YouTube link, so…)

https://open.spotify.com/track/55h66...hg&dl_branch=1

And can we talk about how, in saving Tanahashi from a lifetime of bitterness, Nago also spared a murder happy Fangire? Who knows how many people died in the new timeline that were alive in the original?

Fun Fact: Nago's lucky button makes a cameo in Kamen Rider Drive as the piece of incriminating evidence that was used to convict Touma's murderer! I guess criminals buy their shirts from the same place, huh?

http://www.tokunation.com/attachment...1&d=1623329271

Fun Fact Part 2: Kiva and Drive are both Red Primary Riders while IXA and Mach are both White Secondary Riders. These shows are two of a kind!

It may seem like a small development, but maybe Nago will give Wataru a chance after finding out that he might not be as innocuous as he assumed. Cause yeah, while there's some implications about Wataru's backstory in that scene with the button and Taiga, it's nothing we weren't already speculating about. The real significant change here is how that affects the relationship between Wataru and Nago and whether or not Nago will still be able to accept Wataru after coming closer to the truth about Kiva's secret identity.

Considering how much of a catch Nago was at the group date, I'm not surprised. Too bad he thinks romance is a waste of time.

Oops!

Nago once let a Fangire escape because all he wanted was the dude's button, leaving Wataru to eventually save people from being monster murdered. With that in mind, I feel like Nago letting a Fangire go to save his coworkers from a terrible future (and then he eventually detonated the Fangire anyway) is on the low-end of regrettable actions that Nago's moral code has justified.

This is one of those things where... if I was rewatching this, knowing the arc of the series, I'd probably see this development as pretty significant. Getting to see Nago recalculate Kiva's potential for heroism/humanity, based on his Nago's brief infatuation/obsession with a Fangire? Sure! I barely understand the logic of the Nago parts of this story, but I can appreciate it for how it complicates things for him in the future.

It's just, that's not really in this episode? The Nago/Maya stuff, yeah, but there's not really any sense in this episode that Nago's views on Fangires have changed. I'm glad to hear that they're evolving, in the near future, but there's not much of a suggestion in this episode that the Maya situation wasn't unique.