I guess the translators goofed then because Bug Greed clearly said about Fish Greed that she'd 'take ages to pick a body'. Unless I just misinterpreted that but it seems a weird way to word it regardless because if all she is doing is copying the image I wouldn't have drawn attention to the specific physical aspect of the body itself. I can certainly see why I was confused.

Who is Lost Ankh, the other half of him? Yeah, I was really underwhelmed by him as well. TaJaDor looks AWESOME but the other half of Ankh looks absolutely ridiculous and not in a cool way.

Fourze 33 doesn't leave me with a lot to say, it was a lot of fun and also completely ridiculous. I have to say that not only is Meteor Storm an ugly design, his transformation is pretty awful as well with some cheap instagram filter and that is it.

It does set up some interesting things for the future though.

That's deffinitely a translator flub. Likely because they misundertood that Mezool had yet to create a human form and said she hadn't "picked" one yet. Yeah, Lost Ankh is Ankh but with purple shit on his face and a purple arm.

Lost Ankh is the main issue with this show because he is what does not make sense. Ankh (who I will refer to simply as Ankh and Lost Ankh as Lost Ankh to avoid confusion the show does not) as I said is clearly an anomaly with the Greed, being nothign but an arm but maintaining his conciousness, but that's chalked up to how his arm was seperated.

What doesn't make sense is Lost Ankh and why he has a personality that's supposedly, as the show will suggest later, stronger than Ankh's own. It begs questions like how the hell did Lost Ankh exist since if his core medals with his personality are in the arm then he should've just broke down. (this becomes even more confusing once we find out what "created" Lost Ankh)

Another question it brings up is why have none of the other Greed split into multiple beings by having their cores removed? This explained later by showing (this isn't THAT big of a spoielr and is useful to know) that each Greed has one core medal acting as the "brain." This is how Ankh survived as an arm and how no matter how many cores are lost, the "brain" core can live on. The problem is how the hell did Lost Ankh come into being without a "brain" core?

The whole running thing with the villains is that the Greed need to "evolve." This is actually rather interestingly explored with the introduction of something I don't know if you've seen and I doubt you have so I'll be quiet. That's what the whole "make a vessel for all the cores" was about. Lost Ankh doesn't really fit into that scheme, nor should he really when you consider his origin, but that really just makes him feel random and confusing. He's kind of distracting from the actual villain plot.


BTW, Ryuki 20: Gai is dead. Yay, he accomplished so much in the plot! Ouja used his ridiculous rider kick to destroy his butt, then when he was fighting Ryuki got lightly bumped in the face and flew twenty feet. Yeah, okay. Venosnaker is HUGE and cool, and seeing him and Dragredder fight was neat, but they really poured on the epic imagery which sadly kind of fell flat since why was Dragredder there? He just shows up so we can get this imagery of opposing serpents squaring off but Ryuki didn't call him. What about Darkwing and the red stingray? They just stuck in traffic?

Also, the contrived "time limit" rears it's stupid head after being a non-issue for, like, fifteen episodes straight. Seriously, how God-damned convenient that his time is "up" (BTW how does he even know that he didn't even know what monsters were) but no on else who went into the mirror world BEFORE him is.

Nothing about OOOs lore makes sense to me. So they wanted to create new life...through...medals (what?) but then when one medal was removed...the other nine...desired to be alive so now they...are? (what?)

And they lose different parts of themselves if their cores are removed but even if all their cores are removed they just turn into a human...even though that isn't even their real form (what?) and although they get in great pain when they don't consume cell medals, it can't actually kill them... so really I don't know what their drive is.

WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND ANY OF THIS.

I have a feeling whatever sub your watching isn't the best as far as translations.

The story of the Greed is that ancient alchemists succeeded in creating life through condensing the power of animals into medals, but the medals lacked a will and a drive to acheive sentience. So one medal from each set of ten was destroyed, creating an instictual (is that even a word?) desire to become whole again, so the medals became the Greed in order to fulfill that desire.

Yeah it's not the greatest backstory of the ages, but it at least makes a bit more sense.

I never got why they changed to humans when they were missing all but one of there cores, especially since they all do that. Maybe we're just reading too much into this and they actually changed into humans simply so they coud escape without drawing attention?

Also, cell medals are part of the Greed's body and, in large enough quantities, give them more power. I believe this is actually explored with Uva I guess later if you haven't seen it. (though cell medals are not a replacement for cores. It's just more "meat" on their bones)

BTW, I have a hard time deciding who's more useless. The police of Ryuki or Ryuki himself when not in the suit. Seriously, they stop the pursuit because Ren drops a FLARE on the ground. A FLARE. Oh God don't go near it it may blow SMOKE on us. What a joke. Also, Ouja is REALLY fucking annoying with his "vexing" shit. I'm actually quite dissapointed, I thought he was gonna be this awesome character but he's just a glorified thug.

It makes sense as it is in English because it raises so many questions. Why did they try to create life through medals and why would they even assume destroying one would cause all the others to combine into a whole unit? What are cell medals? Why did they make food medals that the Greed need to feed on? Who the hell sanctioned this?

Did they even think about any of this when they wrote this or did they take a fuck load of drugs, smash a piggy bank and watch some FMA and assumed they had a brilliant story?

Because ancient people were dicks.

Seriously, just look at ancient Egypt. "Yeah I could just have a humble funeral but fuck that I want my tomb to be the size of a mountain now get to work slaves."

Also I guess because desire is, like, the most primal and basic instinct I think they say.

Also, I think you're gettign a little to analyse-y. This is Kamen Rider, you sort of have to accept taht teh base premise is loopy. I think the fact that OOO can cover it's bases up until the very first event in it's history isn't too bad compared to, say, Wizard which barely has a plot at all. (Or Agito where "lol God-analogy did it")

Alternate answer: "Nobody knows!" -Bender

It's the fact that OOO seems to be so happy to explore its lore that I end up feeling so confused and frustrated with it all. Wizard may have largely no plot behind how the 'magic' in its universe works, granted, but it also never draws attention to it either so you don't really notice.

OOO however is screaming at you to pay close attention to their lore and none of it makes any kind of sense.

I think this where the "suspension of disbelief" is supposed to kick in. OOO lore does make sense... provided you can accept the premise of ancient alchemist creating life in the form of medals.

Now that doesn't mean that you have to not-think, like the confusion behind Lost Ankh, but it seems weird that in a show where monsters and people in superhero outfits who transfom using magic you can't accept magic sentient medals with a desire to be whole.

Because we've kinda moved on from this now, haven't we?

Yeah in the 40s we had heroes being born from cosmic rays but in the seventy years since we've tried to make stories actually coherent and...actual stories.

OOO is just an idea and you basically have to just accept it's just an idea and nothing else or fuck off, it seems. And that doesn't sit well with me. Especially as it seems to love drawing attention to how little it all makes sense and how little thought seems to have gone into it.

It's conversations like this that make md realize how shallow i am. I love OOO more then just about anybody on this forum. And the most I got out of the entire series was boy, this show was awesome!

There is no wrong way to like tokusatsu. But lord knows I put almost no thought into these shows.

Moved on from what? Originality?

It is an actual story. It just has a made-up premise. MOST SCIENCE FICTION DOES. That's the most nonsense comment I've ever read from you.

I don't understand you. OOO does tell a story and keeps it's lore, relatively, coherant based on it's own rules that it establishes. There's nothing wrong with the premise because, well, it's Kamen Rider. It's not supposed to be grounded in reality. I'm relly fucking confused right now as to what your actual issue with the show is.

That's fine. But that's not to say you shouldn't put any thought into it.

OOO's villains being collection of medals that have a will of their own and there's a hero who can use them to magically change into an armoured warrior? I'll buy that. It's not like anything in the show exists to contradict it. That's the basic premise.

Lost Ankh existing as a seperate being because Ankh's medals were split? Well, that doesn't make sense because none of the other Greed did that despite also having their medals split.

Moved on from 'how does that work' 'err...reasons'. When shows bring direct focus on the cogs of their universe, these days you're actually required to make it make sense and give it a sense of logic beyond hand waving.

OOO is the story of 'there were some dudes once who made homonculi medals'
'oh wow, how does that work?'
'that isn't important'
'err well it kinda-'
'ANYWAY they removed one of the medals and-'
'they removed one of the medals, why?'
'that isn't important'
'err well it-'
'ANYWAY they became whole and now they are monsters. The end.'
'What?'
'That isn't important.'
'I give up...'
'That is exactly what we wanted!'

All of these shows are made up but that doesn't mean you don't have to explain yourself. OOOs lore is just completely nonsense. Science Fiction makes their universes work and believable under their own internal logic. OOO is so poorly explained and half realised it has no internal logic to hold the thing up. That is my problem, compared to the other Rider shows I have seen, OOO is nonsense and blows up just how stupid it is a thousandfold.

Fourze and Wizard may not have some rich coherent universe either but it only gives us small windows into the internal cogs so we get just enough to know what is going on and not too much so we're questioning the finer details.

Also watched OOO 31, fairly uninteresting episode but the purple medals of death present interesting opportunities for the future.

Literally half your little sarcastic back and fourth is actually explained.

They removed one of the medals to create desire, which this show explains is supposedly the basis for intelligent life. The desire to survive, desire to achieve, etc. The medals were alive, but lacked any kind of lasting motivation. The desire to be whole would be a constant, infallible drive that would be with them every second of their being.

You say "that isn't important" like you're being witty, but really you're just showing how little you seem to pay attention. Now, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you just haven't gotten to when they go into detail about most of this (have you seen the purple medals yet or heard of the king? Because if not then that really explains your position. That stuff REALLY explains in detail exactly what happened and how it works)

Let me take your oh-so witty examination of the show and apply some actual "let's actually use the show's answers"-ness.

OOO is the story of 'there were some dudes once who made homonculi medals'
'oh wow, how does that work?'
'They used a combination of ancient science and magic to harness the powers of the fittest animals to create powerful life'

'ANYWAY they removed one of the medals and-'
'they removed one of the medals, why?'
'To create a desire to be whole so said life would grow to have sentience since the medals didn't really have a reason to do anything as medals'

'ANYWAY they became whole (rather, they became sentient) and now they are monsters. Not the end but that's the story up until the show starts.'
'What?'
'Well, the medals needed physical form to acheive their desire, so their medals (being part magic used to create life in the first place) created bodies combined from the different animals they took power from. However since they're desire could not be fulfilled because the tenth medal of each set was destroyed, they became obsessed with an unsatisfiable desire that twisted them into monsters.'

'I give up...'
'That's because you didn't bother to finish the show.'

See what happens when you actually use the information given by the show? Now granted, I chalk some of this up to the obviously poor subs your're using since even a single noun misplaced or altered can very drastically alter meaning and create confusion, AND you haven't actually gotten to the part (I don't think) when all this is explained in the show itself.

OOO is far from perfect, but literally the only thing that doesn't add up about it's mythos is the actual creation of the medals which is never actually seen, but that's also supposed to be a bt of a mystery. (all we know is that alchemists created them with a combination of ancient science and dark arts) I have a BUNCH of reservations about OOO, but you're being 100% unfair in your assesment of it's backstory. It's not the writers being lazy, if anything it's the opposite. They tried to put so much in they couldn't fit everything or explain it properly.

Try watching Den-O sometime. It's a GREAT series chock full of lovable, memorable characters and great moments, but it really only has an overarching plot for the last fifteen episodes (although there's many character arcs and plots revolving the characters) and doesn't really explain the main plot point and conflict in the show. (where the Imagin, the monsters of teh show, even came from) OOO, seriously, had no reason to fully explain the Greed as far as it did, or even how the medals were created. But it gave it a shot because it figured the audience deserved some kind of explanation.

Yes there is.

You can like the last 19 episodes of Hibiki more than the first 29. That is categorically and objectively wrong and it makes you a bad person.

:p

So I just watched Ultimatum and I totally agree with all the negativity about the fanservice. It seemed like every time a girl fought it was all slow-mo and sound effects. Which is sad because I really like Nadeshiko's fighting style, it's all acrobatics combined with surprising brutality.

Otherwise I liked it. It's a nice little self contained post series story for Fourze, and a fun side adventure for Wizard. I'm sure there's a few minor plotholes if you sit and think about them, but nothing huge that threw me out of the movie.

The king thing was a few episodes back and was a very different flashback to what we saw before. The purple medals have literally just been introduced the last episode I saw.

To be fair with how utterly bland and uninteresting I found the show before Date, I really wasn't paying much attention. I guess now the show actually has identity and stuff that is actually interesting to watch I am paying attention so I'm bound to be a bit confused.

Still though, a huge part of your explanation rests on 'because magic' which is better known as hand waving.

The writers give too much information and too much information that is poorly thought out. I guess I should be mad that Fourze and Wizard give such little of their backstory but it is actually better for it, because the more we know, the more we have to question and Fourze and Wizard give us just enough to understand without too much to question.

Ah, so the King will bring some stuff up later, you haven't seen the last of him, and the purple medals lead into the real payoff.

This is also a possibility.

Except it's not and it doesn't. Magic factors in only to how the Greed were created and expalins where their abilities come from (though the abilities themselves, while also magic based, aren't "do whatever you want" powers) how the OOO driver works.

It's magic with rules. It's used sparingly in the show as an actual excuse and always comes "from something." A lot of what the Greed are about and what happens is about the evolution of the Medals and just life in general.

But it's NOT poorly thought-out. Again, It's been a while since I've seen OOO's second half so I don't know exactly when it happens, but it is all explained and is not thought out poorly.

The only things that were poorly plotted was Lost-Ankh (aside from the ingongruities with the story I just felt he overstayed his welcome) and somethign near the end which I don't want to spoil it becuse it's half cool half "huh?"

And of course, there's the final episode, which is probably one of the best Kamen Rider finales.

Fourze gives a total backstory dump during the last 5-10 episodes. It's poorly handled, but I'm curious how you're going to praise it just to prop Fourze as high than OOOs :p

I'm already starting to see Fourze's problems as said by other members. Aries had like fifteen episodes of hype and although it was an arc of key moments, he became a villain of the week only lasting two very rushed episodes. I can see a cluterfuck mess in Fourze's future, the first half of the show was miles stronger than the second.

Either way I still think thus far Fourze is miles better than OOO, I mean Fourze really is in space in terms of the gap between the two shows quality.

I have yet to see any of these 'rules' you speak of. I mean they have said a lot about how this whole Medal shebang works but not a lot of it has really been upheld or followed.

But I guess I'll wait and see if this final quarter changes my mind.

I was joking about the Fourze thing :lol
I don't really care which series you find better.

Though, there is a funny trend I've been noticing.

Show gets any praise?
"This show is shit. Overrated trash."
Show gets decried as poor?
"I don't see what's going on. This show is the greatest!"
:lolol

Bad time to mention I adore Fourze, and without it I wouldn't like Kamen Rider as much as I do > . >?

It is true, it is clear I have very different tastes to the wider community on this site but it's been like this most of my life, I've rarely had tastes similar to the masses and I get slapped with words like 'pretentious' or they say I'm doing it for attention...which I'm not, I just obviously have very unique tastes.

Still though, I still refuse to accept that twenty minutes of a young boy on a bicycle is 'one of Wizard's best episodes' when in the same series one of the villains got kicked into the sun. :p

Eh. Happened to me with Decade.

But I will forever stand by that episode as one of Wizard's best. :p

I didn't even know you liked Kamen Rider at all :lol

Fourze 34: It feels like FOREVER since we've had a proper plot focused episode and this one was a really good one, even if it answered more questions I wasn't asking than the ones I actually was.

I mean I guess technically the Aries two parter was a story focused episode as well but it was all over in a flash and very little of what happened in it seems to have had any kind of impact.

And Leo is pretty badass but I kinda wish Aries stayed around a lot longer because he actually had a devastating and interesting power which set him apart. Most of the other Horoscopes are just generic powerful villains.

And I didn't think I'd say it...but I miss those horrible CGI monstrosities. They looked like shit but they at least suggested something happened when they went Supernova. All Aries got was bigger horns which did nothing and although Libra's is really useful it has absolutely no visual effect at all apart from an eye animation when it is used.

Also that ugly girl that wants Gen's dick can fuck off, I hate characters who exist simply to get in the way rather than anything else, they are easily worst of the toku archetype side characters. At least they made suspenders useful in the end.

I mean I think we're supposed to assume that she cares about him but as Gen took up the duty to battle the Horoscopes, it would only be selfish of him to relax on holiday while they ran amuck, why can characters in these shows never see that? Grr.

Be careful what you wish for? :lol

Anyway, I actually like Libra's supernova. He was never a gigantic bruiser type character. While I wish his power could be expanded beyond seeing one's inner constellation, the idea that Libra's supernova is actually a non-offensive ability was interesting.

I suppose but it just kinda supported Libra's...nothingness. When used sparingly, he is badass. But he has never used his powers in any truly interesting ways, he doesn't seem all that strong as a fighter and honestly doesn't really seem to have smarts to make up for where he lacks in combat.

He's more of a pathetic worm, scheming and taking advantage to scape by which would be fine but it really doesn't fit with his attitude and personality.

You actually kind of nailed Libra. He's only around because of his Supernova, he's a man who thinks himself to be powerful (Both in position (High school principal, 1 of the Horoscopes) and strength), but really isn't, and he's a background player grasping at the main character straw.
The show makes Libra a combination of both interesting and dull, in my opinion.

I guess that actually makes sense of Libra's antagonism, if we do a deep theoretical read of his character, we can assume he is constantly battling for self worth and fears his own lack of importance, which only further perpetuates it. And so he became a principle and one of the Horoscopes to almost prove to himself he isn't worthless and that is also why he is so keen to get into fights. This is about no one but himself, I guess that would also be a big reason as to why he hated Cancer so much, because Cancer rejected his authority and would have surpassed him if he continued as he was.

That would also suggest why his Supernova awoke just before he was about to be 'killed' because it would mean he would be deemed worthless and would scrape fingers bleeding to avoid that.

Wow my own deep reading of the character makes me love him :lol

Those luscious lips?

Medusa's actress makes my skin crawl, between her manly hands, her tiny eyes, her huge chin and general slapped arse expressions.

I meant her Kaijin form...

Her actress is still doofy and terrible at her job.

Medusa is just dumb and awful in every way.

It's a shame as well because she was quite badass at the beginning but they diluted her role so much that now all she does is stand around looking like she just smelt someone's yeast infection.

So morally I had no real idea what was going on in OOO 32 but it was still a great episode. No surprise there though, it was a character focused episode, and OOO may not be the best written story in the world but it knows how to write great characters.

Eiji was the one thing I liked in the show as I slogged up to Date's appearance and this really confirms why. The more we learn about him, the more interesting he becomes and I love the way they tied him and the new Purple Medals together.

Plus I love his attitude, it may not be as heroic as say Gen's but at least he admits he can't save everyone and focuses on those he knows he can and actually has a solid reason for his attitude.

ALSO his Mighty Morphin transformation was awesome, he even had the Power Axe! Just a shame the CGI was absolute cack, I swear that is the worst this series looked. The fish combo looked pretty terrible but not that bad and TaJaDor had a sky battle as well and that actually looked great so the fuck happened?

It is also pretty funny that these new Yummy are more competent than any of the Greed so far.

Putotyra is, like, the perfect fusion between cool and retarded combined into one for maximum meh-itude. For one, all his attacks sound great on paper, but like you said the CGI is weirdly pap. And then you get to the abilities themselves and realise they're just klind of ridiculous in execution.

Wings that freeze enemies with blasts of ice age? Sounds cool, but the catch is that the wings are basically giant ears. Shoulder spikes that impale enemies? Sounds cool, but instead of growing out they stretch the model like putty with makes it look really cheap. Tail that can smash and thrash baddies? Sounds cool, until to realise it seems to phase out of his butt with a weird gradiant instead of, ya know, just being attached to his back.

Putotyra itself is also a bit goofy looking. The white is a weird contrast to the rest of his suit, only really being on his legs, and his big elf ears and flappity-flap cape pieces just make him look silly. The SIC is way the hell cooler.

They'd find a way ._.

That's why I said he's both interesting and dull :lol
Libra you seriously have to look at from more than just face value.

Medusa has been disappointment after disappointment for me. If Wiseman told her to kill herself, she'd do it, she's such a boring ass pawn of a character.
Mayu proves her actress does know how to act (I'm assuming Misa and Mayu are played by the same actress pulling double duty, and not real life twins/different people with a really good make up job), but the stoic thing she can't pull off...

And don't worry about PuToTyra's CG. I don't recall them doing CG battles with that form very often.

Yeah, she doesn't do much.

In case no one got it, I was joking about her lips.

Yeah it's weird that the effects on his attacks look so bad because as far as a Kamen Rider show goes, the CGI has been very solid and if their budget was drying up or something you'd think they'd just leave out another form for him. TaJaDor worked very well visually and storywise as the ultimate form for the series, the Mighty Morphin form feels a little bit like overkill in and outside of the production even if it is awesome.

I don't even know why the dinosaur form has ice age powers but oh well fuck it these shows seem to always assume that T-Rex's and mammoths just went round each others houses for tea.

That SIC is AMAZING! Why are they so expensive? :(

I assumed so, because as a human they are huge and as a Phantom she has none :lol

Tajador is basically his "final" form. It visually resembles an upgraded Tatoba (having the head change for the combo and keeping the gold "O" on his chest intact which no other combo outside Putotyra does, and even then it's different on that one) and is basically treated as such in the show.

Putotyra really exists more to forward the Greed plot and explanation than be an asset to OOO.

I guess that makes sense, it's just a shame an otherwise awesome form gets the shaft a little bit.

Also so now the Chairman's end game is starting to take motion, anyone got any suggestions what should come next after Fourze? I'd love to watch a series with the same likeability as Fourze and also a series that mixes things up much like Fourze did as well, what I don't want from Fourze is its over sentimentality and lack of focus.

Tajador gets it's day in court, don't worry.