That is what I said all along! But every time I did people made excuses for the show to act like I'm wrong. By far the worst part of Gokaiger is that it's just a giant mess of ideas, it just attempts to cram in everything rather than actually being cohesive. The irony of this tribute season is the tribute aspect is the worst part about it.

That's because it wants to do it all. Jetman was dramatic, so Gokai needs to be dramatic. Kakuranger was a comedy, so Gokai needs to be funny. Gekiranger was action packed, so Gokai needs an action scene every 8 minutes.
It had too many ideas and no clue what to do with them. It had a cast that was just expies of popular Sentai characters concepts (Sans the strongman), and had to burn a good chunk of it's time for tribute episodes that tried (And failed) to copy the tone of the tribute series.

It doesn't help that Sentai as a genre, although undeniably homogeneous, has lots of very clashing trimmings. And rather than trying to streamline anything, the show leap frogs from genre to genre like an ADHD child who also happens to have parkinsons. The only explanations we ever get never actually end up making sense and leave the fandom to make up shit for them.

I don't even care much for the team. Luka's actress is terrible, and minus Ahim, Luka and Joe we don't really know anything about the rest of the team. I figured as their character arcs were basically finished at the start it would give them more room to explore the characters but NOPE. Sure they are all likeable, but a stock shounen hero and half a team of cardboard cut outs hardly sets my world on fire.

Somehow worse than that though is in the three developed characters backstories, they all feature a Zangyack which is so brutal and so successful that it clashes so hard with the villains we get in the main series it may as well be a plothole.

I wanted to say "Well, those were under Ackdos's command, and not Walz's" until I remembered he fared no better...

Yup, for example, his direct guardsmen, who seemingly single-handedly decimated planet Famille, was no better than a monster of the week piece of fodder in the main series.

To be fair, he totally was. It took 2 Final Waves, 5 Past Finishers and 1 Rising Strike to take him down after they worked out his weak point from being smashed around. The only other villains that have anything like that are Damaras and Akudos Gill themselves.

I think the problem was less how he went down, but more his presence. For a character infamous for being a destroyer of worlds, he was only in, like, 2 episodes before dying.

Ooop Ninja'd.

But that doesn't change the fact he was defeated in a single episode, while achieving absolutely nothing in the main series. The only things he ever achieved are implied. And considering by the end of the series they use like ten grand powers to take down a SGormin I think it's less a symbol of the enemies power and one last grab at your wallet.

That's true for the SuGormin, but those battles are represented in significantly different contexts to the battle against Zatsurig, with them being massively beat around, discussing its weak point, the flashbacks, the song playing in the background, the emphasis on Ahim's vengeance coming to a close and even the fact that the Final Waves weren't just the usual stock footage. They were definitely making sure it was a pretty darn memorable scene.

And yet I don't remember a single thing about it.

Changeman 01. Pirate Booba sure is badass for a guy with boob in his name.

This show is basically Sun Vulcan if you took out the misogyny and replaced it with a budget. It also strikes this weird balance of being oddly brutal, without a single drop of blood.

Sure it's super dated, but it's pretty fun too. Like how our heroes transform for the first time, and shock themselves by launching their enemies into the air with their fists and feet. Or the slimy, body horroresque monsters that are actually terrifying enough that it isn't quite as obviously a man in a suit like I find with later seasons.

Although the heroes are not nearly as well designed as the villains - what is with that weird sports bra looking design thing? - I do like how they each are each centred around mythical creatures. Can't think of anything series that has a full team of mythical creature Rangers.

All in all, pretty great. Will probably pick this up next, as Go-Onger wasn't doing a whole lot for me. Just hope those random four episodes get subbed at some point.

I don't really know what to say to you then, that's really more your problem then the show's in that case. It had the only Pink Charge ever, classic returning combination attacks as well as ones we'd never seen before, flashbacks to Ahim's place in the crew, a background song with vocals only used for that scene and that scene alone, rare examples of finishers used outside of stock footage, etc. The effort was to make that battle special was indisputably there.

Well, he's not human, soooo…

I think your fanboyism for the season blinds you slightly, you speak as if what you say is fact and yet I am living proof that it is just not true. If the effort to make this special was there, they would not have reduced the avatar of Ahim's hatred to a single episode that was all action, no heart and thus ultimately forgettable.



"My heart is always RIGHT. Do you get it? LETS GO LETS GO GENERIC SHOUNEN!"

Then how come we can remember the episode perfectly fine then if it's so forgettable? You can't just use yourself as the measuring stick if an episode is good, bad, easy to remember or easy to forget.

I don't remember the episode perfectly fine, I remember Ahim's flashback because it was the first time we got one in about thirty episodes but he was talking about all these musical choices, and all these rare moves, I don't remember any of that.

I'm only ever speaking for myself in my posts, unless I say otherwise, that should be obvious and I shouldn't have to remind you. Never once did I say something like "My opinion is clearly there".

Or they don't agree that the things you're pointing out are flaws.

Oh, wait. What am I saying? Anyone who enjoys the show is either an idiot or conspiring to enjoy it just to confound and upset Locke.

Because how could anyone with a brain enjoy something so ooooooobviously flaaaaaaawed?

:rolleyes

Is there any need for personal insults? Real mature, certainly adds so much credence to the show.

I wasn't the one who accused everyone who enjoys the show of deluding themselves.

Neither did anyone else? The only one who got personal here was you and I have no idea why you needed too, either.

Sorry, dude. I'm just ticked off by your tone. Dislike it all you want, but I'm reading a lot of condescension from you. It's natural to read this line...

"Lots of people have found ways to talk themselves into accepting the shows flaws..."

... And see accusations of delusion and poor taste.

It would be easier to brush off if I didn't think you were a smart guy otherwise.

If you wanna make things personal, PM me or take it to my wall, don't derail a thread and a critical discussion. Gokaiger is not a masterpiece, it's a heavily flawed series. If you want to ignore those flaws, that is fine, but I've found - not so much on this forum, but certainly other places - that Gokaiger is another critical reasoning and thought shield where the fandom goes lalala over the flaws and aggressively attacks anyone who actually points the flaws out and refuses to go lalala. And that shit rubs me the wrong way, someone who will happily critique their favourite shows to death - as I do. As I believe a true fan is someone who can admit the flaws, not ignore them.

A big problem is the difference between accepting a shows flaws (i.e. Acknowledging that a series has issues, but enjoying it nonetheless) and ignoring a show's flaws (Which is what Locke's previous post examples).

Oh and Jetman. Everyone dies, but not really. Noodle Dimension returned, but Raita didn't go insane.
A big problem I'm having is with Gai. Not because of his assholish behavior (That seems to have faded away gradually), but because he's still clearly brash, abrasive, and a loner, yet when the episode isn't about him, he's a perfect team player who smiles and has fun. It's odd to see him ready to beat Ryu into a coma in one episode, then seeing him joking and playing around in another.

Thank you, Matrix.

The thing is, the Gokaiger`s choosing not to sacrifice the past Sentai ( and possibly themselves, as the Gokai grand power is in there too.) to defeat Zangyack is heavily foreshadowed. It`s the whole point of the Basco storyline. Basco says `you gotta make sacrifices to get ahead`, Marvelous and the Gokaigers respond with `fuck you, we`ll get what we want and kick the asses of anyone who tries to stop us`. That whole story arc is the rejection of sacrifice, like Kouta in Gaim.

It would have been a major letdown if after a whole series of that, they just gave in and took the easy way out. It would have been majorly out of character for them to just do whatever a mysterious floating voice said.

Abaranger 3: Having the team live under the same roof is an interesting concept. Especially since the core team and their two followers are from different walks of life and they had only just met each other. I like the concept of Trinoids. Fuse three things together to get a monster with the ferocity of an animal but with the power of a machine. The growth method is interesting, with that seed coming out of their corpse and making then giant via rain. I laughed pretty hard when Tyranno showed up the break up the battle with the Trinoid and then tossed Ryoga all the way across the city so he could spend parent day with Mai.

How did that not click? :lol

Get OUT!

Time for my final voyage with the Gokaiger and final thoughts on the series. Was that a Cowboy Bebop reference? You beautiful bastards.

Considering Joe was the Captain's First Mate I was really disappointed that he stayed behind and sent Gai with Marvelous. Like why? If the excuse was for him to go DekaBreak and do one of the most badass takedowns in the whole show, then I understand. Because man that was great.

Ackdos Gil was pretty badass, fighting off Gai and Marvelous without stepping off the throne. It's a shame the only time villains are interesting in this show is right before they die.

Overall Gokaiger is surprisingly bland and formulaic for most of its run given how flashy it all is. It isn't quite the pile of wasted potential that Kyoryuger was, but that is because I never got the sense that Gokaiger could have ever been as great as Kyoryuger might have been if it capitalised on its potential.

The show at least ends on a high note, even if the entire show leads to a enormous dead end with a fight tacked on as an epilogue. I honestly enjoyed this series more often than I didn't, but thinking back I honestly couldn't really tell you why, especially as with even the lightest of critical eyes the show fails in a major way.

Like it starts seemingly with the intention of doing something original despite the tribute aspect of the series but the most amazing part of this aspect of the series is how quickly this goes out of the window, and how suddenly the show has so little variety every episode bleeds into one another.

Like I enjoy the Gokaiger as a whole, but individually the only real stand outs for me are Ahim and Joe. Marvelous was a bad shounen protagonist by the end even if he was always entertaining, we ended the show knowing next to nothing about Doc or Gai despite being a series where the character arcs were basically complete at the beginning and although Luka had a good story, and lots of character growth, she was poorly acted and the brutality depicted in her flashbacks by the Zangyack was so clashing with Zangyack we got in the main story it may as well have been a plothole.

Like I absolutely love the gimmick but between the vast majority of awful tribute episodes, and utterly boring mech battles I would have happily scarified the fun team changes in the henshin hero segments to cut out all of this stuff all together. Heh it's funny, the tribute aspect of this show is the worst part about it.

Hell, it's difficult to even appreciate the henshin hero stuff honestly, as the only time there was a villain worth beating on was right when they were about to die at the very tail end of the series. Maybe the Gokaiger are a team fitting this tribute, but the villains most certainly aren't.

And that isn't mentioning their final big game breaking decision at the end, which is probably one of the single most terrible moments in my entire sentai watching history.

Overall if it had a better ending, I'd probably put it in my mid-tier shows. It's certainly watchable as it has so much flash, but between the shit ending, generally terrible writing and some of the worst villains in the history it's a show that starts promising, ends high but is a true battle of commitment and intelligence to make it there.

Gokaiger suffered greatly from the shit ton of tribute episodes. I really wanna see the Show that was originally planned with just the handful of tributes.

I assume he picked Gai to go with him since Gai stated when he first joined up that it was his dream to defeat the Zangyack. So I guess he figured he'd bring him along for the fight against the big baddie so that he can achieve that dream.

It still didn't make a whole lot of sense for Joe's character though. When Marvelous literally crashes into hell near enough, Joe stays behind.

I know it's a tribute season, but it's weird that in the middle of the show the Gokaiger basically got lost in a sea of ultimately pointless cameos and then when they finally started to focus on the Gokaiger again they ran out of time.

Honestly I think about 90% of my issues with the show would have been resolved with less tributes. It woulda given them more time to make the Zangyack seem like a legit threat, it woulda given them more time to focus on the actual plot so it wasn't such a giant mess etc

Like I said the original plan was just having Tributes for Magi,Deka,Geki,Gao,Shinken,Car,Ginga, Hurri and Go-On.

This interview here explains alot regarding the production of Gokaiger

http://forums.henshinjustice.com/sho...7&postcount=28

Upon my recent rewatch I will agree that the villains outside of Basco were pretty damn weak. The Zangyack just really needed to be improved upon. Maybe in a perfect fantasy world they would have been as dominant as The Empire.

Actually in a perfect fantasy world, it would be pirates facing off against pirates. Like there's a whole bunch of pirate gangs out there racing to Earth to get the treasure.

It may have been a mess, but it did give us the (imo) great Jetman episode and I really dug the Megaranger one. But then again, I love Megaranger to near death.

I really, really wish the pirate theme was used more. Outside of the Hurricanger tribute, I never once felt a pirate vibe from the cast.

Half the problem for me, was that the Zangyack in the main series were far less interesting than the one's in the flashbacks. Sure we would have had no show if they just blew up the Earth, but even when Walz father comes into the frame, not a whole lot really changes.

They literally go from these soulless, brutal bastards, committing planetwide genocide in the flashbacks, to the kind of terrible comedy actors you get in school plays, sent down one at a time, into seemingly the same city. I don't get how a villain force that has enslaved a universe, has thousands of ships in orbit, is able to achieve nothing in a show that is longer than average.

Thanks I'll give it a read!

Maybe Joe stayed behind because it was his job to lead the rest of the team? That is the usual role of a first mate, after all.

And I still disagree with you on the big decision at the end. The Gokaigers are a team that responds to being told they need to sacrifice to win by shrugging it off and winning anyways. Sacrificing all the past Super Sentai to beat Zangyack would have been a massive betrayal of their characters.

The underdog standing up to the topdog for the sake of others is a classic, brilliant cliché in Japanese productions but usually during that moment they don't have the choice to literally wipe out all evil up until that point in an instant.

The choice to fight the Zangyack, although ultimately successful, doesn't honour the characters but it most certainly betrays the audience.