But if Batman had never taken Dick in, Dick would just be another mindless zombie Talon. Plus I actually like Dick now he is Nightwing, as Nightwing is less of a kid with a bad attitude that can take down fully grown men because of...reasons and more his own Batman, with a design like Batman Beyond, which helps.

Oh, definitely Dick is the exception. He grew up, moved on, ran his own team, and lost Bludhaven. But he recovered as much as you can from something like that. But sooner or later, you'd think, Batman would stop a minute and go "Huh... Maybe it's me." Though I'm not blaming him for Jason Todd. DC killed Jason Todd because of a rigged phone poll.

Tim? Dont you mean Jason Todd?

Edited my post a second after I made it because I saw my mistake. You're slow, Convoy :p

So I guess old dogs can learn new tricks he? :lol

Or get taken behind the woodshed :lol

How is Batgirl and The Birds of Prey in the New 52? Gail Simone is one of my favourite comic writers, and her Batgirl sections of Night of The Owl proved to be a highlight of a very fun book. Also does Batgirl and Birds start fresh as well?

Yay, another Simone fan! :D

Batgirl has been amazing, my favourite new 52 by far. I was incredibly skeptical that DC could pull off making Babs Batgirl again given how amazing she was as Oracle, but thanks to Simone's writing they've really made it work. The story is a reboot of sorts - the paralysing in the Killing Joke still happened, but she's suddenly got better and started fighting crime again. They haven't fully explained the miracle healing yet, but I like to believe they will eventually. The fact its frequently referenced is a sure sign they haven't forgotten it.

Birds is pretty much a reboot too, although I inferred from it that Babs did act as Oracle with Black Canary during her paralysis. I followed it for a few issues and was really disappointed in it. Black Canary is fine, but Starling is no Huntress (Helena Beternelli doesn't exist any more) or Zinda Blake. The early roster isn't too bad with Katana and Poison Ivy filling the slots, and then Batgirl joins up eventually as well. But the team switches around quite quickly and I lost interest.

A talon becoming a team member was pretty much the last straw for me. I liked Court of Owls but I don't think it needs shoe-horning in everywhere.

Absolutely adored her run on Wonder Woman the most. Never thought I'd enjoy the character, but I was sold as soon as Wonder Woman made Captain Nazi cry :lol

That is a shame about Birds, then, but good to know about Batgirl. I'll add that trade to the pile I'm gathering in my Amazon Basket along with New 52 Batman and Robin, New 52 Earth 2 and that other New 52 Batman trade I need.

Spoiler never died, but Damian has and Jason came back so Damian should be back later this year, I mean he is an Al Ghul too.