No you didn't, you're fine here. But yeah there's difference between invincible in battle and the battle stats being proportional to their power and them being able to be returned. Even theoretically if there's an actual mass manufacturing of the Drivers, after a Driver is destroyed, they can give another Driver for them to use (or them having a spare Driver to use).

Right, co-op, that's what you meant about Ex-Aid being about teamwork. I don't think they want the same thing though, it's more about they want different thing, but they achieved it using the same method (fighting the same Bugster or such for instance). That way ganging up on a Bugster would be the most benefical for them so they can do it.... because there are a case where despising each other would just hinder each other as expected, like Tsurugi in Kabuto interfering with Tendou's fight.

Sougo does prove here though that he tried to not become Ohma Zi-O, he proved it by correctly piecing together what Emu was trying to do from clues in previous episode and tried to help him convince Another Ex-Aid to give up peacefully. Regarding positive outcome though, I won't be using much on the outcome argument honestly, because something like for example, Kamen Rider formula of the hero having same power source as the villain can be technically creating a good outcome, but doesn't mean said villain becomes innocent, like for example the Zecters being developed by ZECT which had monstrosity like Mishima in charge. Another example is evil vs evil scenario like Evolt killing Namba in Build.

I kinda like here that the one that is used as a source of example and inspiration (for guiding others toward more good) is someone like Tsukuyomi, who as you said earlier is someone with actual Kamen Rider sensibility, instead of using an example in someone more morally questionable but is done by the series only because they had more major role and had their negative traits downplayed/ignored by this. This episode also had Geiz' coldness being shaken a bit by a technically side character instead in Emu, who kinda pointed out that Geiz and Hiiro are alike as in which Geiz realized too late, while Geiz noted Hiiro is cold... Geiz himself is also similar. That's also a funny bit in this episode that had me laughing over Geiz having himself exposed.

Uhh... while Sougo can be out of touch from reality, Sougo is always a sweet kid, not only at this episode. It's already established at episode 1 before even if his portrayal is annoying, it's seen in Sougo more concerned about people stop fighting rather than him being thrown to river. Sougo won't despise Geiz or Tsukuyomi, and Tsukuyomi doesn't despise Sougo either. Geiz and Tsukuyomi are real partners so it's obvious they aren't on each other's throats. The only one that bears hatred here is Geiz towards Sougo (though he can be a tsundere), and for now, Tsukuyomi is the one that can rein in Geiz' vengeful murderous desires, so Tsukuyomi's the one that keeps the trio together for now. And I did forget that Sougo did have some development here too of becoming less delusional and more sensitive and thoughtful on the other's situation (based on Sougo's ignorance, not Sougo being uncaring), him realizing that Geiz went through a lot more than what he accused him as before (which angers Geiz as he grabs him by collar).

I mean, they want the same thing (defeating the Bugsters) for massively different reasons. The goal is the same, it's just the motivations that are different. There are a couple of storylines explicitly about whether their motivations can be met with a different goal, sure, but Curing The Bugster Virus is a pretty locked-in goal for the four main Riders for the duration of the show.

It's a good gag! I like the idea that Geiz thinks he's totally normal and outgoing, while everyone else is like Why Are You So Mean. It's so sweet and stupid, that Geiz is fine being seen as an implacable warrior from a doomed future, but he doesn't want anyone to think he's a jerk.

These kids! So fun!

(Fish Sandwich also watched Kamen Rider Zi-O - EP04)

This still isn't a super standout arc of the show for me, but looking back, I definitely still remember feeling like it set a much nicer standard for the show than the first pair of episodes did. The way the guest stars are worked in is more smooth, the pacing is much nicer, and there's stronger character development for the series regulars. Really not much to complain about.

...And personally, I've also never felt the need to complain about the whole central conceit of how Another Riders and Ride Watches work? Even now, I really feel like this single line from episode 2.5 is all you need to worry about:

https://i.imgur.com/jhw8BLX.jpg

Like, basically the whole thing is just one big Shirakura-ism, in that they're taking something very meta and portraying it literally on screen. As a broad idea, I honestly kinda dig a lot about it. Die, you seem to be reading into it in the most negative way possible, but the existence of Kamen Rider is supposed to be tragic, and that goes way back before Zi-O. They only ever exist as a result of some evil system of authority or horrible event producing them, whether directly or indirectly. This is even the case for Sougo himself.

I feel like if Zi-O is saying the only way to get rid of the heroes who try to turn that around is to just outright get rid of that entire chain of events, it's more of a testament to the indomitable Rider spirit than anything? Like, if Pandora's Box is around, Sento will become Build eventually, and he will fight for Love & Peace. I think that's probably what the end of episode 2 is trying to imply as well, by pointing out the blank Ride Watch will eventually become the Build Watch, and Sougo suggesting that's because even altering history won't stop Build from being Build. And of course, that answers your other gripe, by directly offering the hope that these fan-favorite characters aren't gone. (And you know, going back to the Shirakura-ism angle, they'll need these Riders again for more crossovers, so...)

As for why these plots are written to end this way, admittedly, I'm not too sure. I know the middle is that way because having the guest Riders be de-powered keeps the focus on Zi-O and Geiz, where it belongs, but off the top of my head, all I can imagine is that they deliberately wanted to make Zi-O's victories feel like losses too, as some way to emphasize that Sougo's heroism may end up with him being the villain, but I don't know. It's a weird thing for an anniversary show to be doing, but just like its title character's personality, I feel like I wouldn't like Zi-O anywhere near as much if it wasn't doing weird things all the time.

I think my favorite aspect of the plot's pattern so far has been how the Legend Riders themselves have been both literally and symbolically trusting their lives with Sogo via handing him the Ride Watches. Can't wait to see how that ties with the little bits of foreshadowing that we've been getting from Woz.

I clearly am! Some of that is because, man, I don't really feel like the show has portrayed it as ambiguously as you claim? Maybe it's Sougo's unbridled ignorance or Geiz'z relentless disinterest, but the show really seems to be saying Hey Look New Collectible, not But At What Cost. If I felt a little more like the show had some ambivalence about the outcome of a monster-of-the-week outing for our heroes, I'd probably be less upset about it.

And it's also... like, I'm upset about it because we're talking about it. The second we stop talking about it -- or the show stops spending time explaining the ever-escalating consequences of a real routine monster detonation -- I will stop being upset about it. It's not like I've been stewing in anger for the last twenty-four hours. This isn't going to harm my enjoyment of the show or anything, and I doubt it's going to be among the first twenty things I want to talk about when the show's over. It's like Sougo's worrisome desire to be a Good Tyrant: it's very easy to forget about it, as long as they stop talking about it.

So, yeah, it's nice to hear how everyone has made their peace with -slash- grown to appreciate the show going Your Favorite Kamen Rider Series Never Existed, but it's just not a place I can get my brain to go. Rest of the show's real fun, though!

Well color me excited to catch up.

For what it’s worth, the writer did have a plan to explore how different every Rider’s world would be without there being Riders or monsters, but he lacked both space in the script and money in the budget necessary to pull it off.

You know, I haven't really seen anyone talking about it, but I just really like the katakana/hiragana aesthatic of the suits?

Just the little things, like how Sougo's Rider Shoe has the katakana for 'kick' on it, and the way his first Rider Kick is portrayed so that his visor and shoe line up to spell out "Rider Kick". The way part of said visor extends to form a second hand. And in the latest episode, how Sougo's Critical Time Break utilizes the same 'Hit' effects used in Ex-Aid, but written in katakana instead of English.

The way the weapons shift as well, with the spelling literally changing with the weapon to indicate what mode it is in, just stands out to me and looks so cool.

Geiz's weapon in particular, the Zikan Zax, just really tickles my funny bone. The sound effects that occur when Geiz changes his weapon forms are named after said weapon forms, "Yumi" for bow and 'Ono' for axe, but are intentionally separated so that we get "You! Me!" and "Oh no!" instead. And that is just hilarious to me. "Oh no! An axe!"

I also just really like the base form suits (but I also have trash taste in fashion, so you know, take what I say with a grain of salt). They're basically walking wristwatches, with the helmets being the literal faces of the watch while the straps form the divider in the middle of the suits. It's a very simple design, and yet I just really like it. I just really like how they combined these two different themes, of clocks and Japanese lettering, and somehow make it work. And I am in love with it.

That is nice! These guys are real heroes, entrusting their power and legacy to a kid who immediately screws up their finishers. (A bit that I adore.) Luckily, I guess they won't remember him enough to maybe have second thoughts?

I hope you enjoy it! Takes a minute to get good, but that second story is a real good time.

Which, again, I would maybe not create weirdly ambiguous consequences that you can't really explore in a satisfying way? Bit of an unforced error, from my vantage point.

I think we discussed them a little bit, but I don't recall anyone praising them with such specificity. Thank you for that! I definitely didn't catch the sound effects for Geiz'z axe, but I also dug the RIDER face and KICK foot. The effects and design teams are clearly having a real fun time with this series!

I still don't like Sogo