Never mind that; apparently Toei still thinks the Venosnaker model is so impressive that they re-used it for Blood Stalk's holo snake things!

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/...Snakes.PNG.png

WHAAAAAAAAATTTTT

I kept meaning to bring this up but forgetting, so I'm glad this got brought up so naturally! :lol

Toei will reuse CG props the same way they reuse physical ones, given the chance. I think there are actually quite a few examples of this sort of thing happening. I know wizard guy Bugster in Ex-Aid had magic circles that were reused from Wizard, for one.

Paying CAD desgners is expensive, yo!

I mean, the way they reuse actors, suits, names, props, sound effects, and locations, I guess the merely-occasional recycling of computer graphics must be so rare to Toei as to feel invisible.

MASKED RIDER RYUKI EPISODE 42

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ryuki/ryuki42a.png

This was... not a great episode for Shinji. Or, maybe it was an outstanding episode for Shinji? Definitely going to be some different perspectives on this episode from some folks.

Mostly because, you know, Shinji's a little dopier than usual in this one. So much so that Shinji's naivete/gullibility/stupidity is an actual plot point in the episode! Shinji's trusting nature gets its harshest critique yet as the panel of Kitaoka, Asakura, and Ren, three dudes who are definitely who you want to take life advice from, basically tell Shinji that he sucks.

It's a pretty bold suggestion for a show to make, especially this late in its run. To do a story that hinges on your lead character getting called out by terrible men for being terrible, and then follow that with him getting betrayed again by someone he trusted... rough. That is some rough stuff for Shinji to have to deal with, and he doesn't come out looking super great from it.

But, first, those three assholes sort-of have a point. There's a difference between always seeing the best in people, and being taken advantage of. (I feel like I said these exact words about an Agito story, so I guess this is a pet peeve of mine.) Imperer is clearly untrustworthy, as he's probably not going to change his loyalty to money based on a few minutes in Shinji's presence and an offer of free tea. Maybe Shinji could give him a trial run first, instead of embracing him as a friend and inadvertently putting Yui in jeopardy? Just a thought!

It's just, that's what's interesting about Shinji, the way he really doesn't think things through, the way he makes gut decisions, and it's fun to see the show call it out while still embracing it. Like, it's a feature, not a bug. I'm sure it's tiresome for some people, to see Shinji make bad/dumb decisions. I've had a few bouts of judging Shinji. But the engine of the show is that Shinji Wants To Believe In People. If you're like Ren or Kitaoka or (god help you) Asakura, you'd like to see a more skeptical Shinji, a more guarded Shinji. But that's just not Shinji. Shinji's someone who's definitely going to think that the guy who a few minutes ago wouldn't lift a finger to save him from getting axe-murdered has decided to worship at the temple of Ryuki, to be a true hero. Shinji is gullible, and that's crucial to his character. His gullibility is borne out of believing in people, in always wanting to see the best. He's gullible because he wants to show empathy, to never risk being cruel if there's a chance to be kind. He can be tricked easily because he wants to be open. Growing out of that... why would you want him to do that? It'd be like Ren growing out of brooding, Asakura growing out of loving to murder, or Kitaoka growing out of thinking Kitaoka is awesome. Those aren't things that need to be resolved, those aren't arcs, that's their character.

Maybe that doesn't work for some people. Maybe for them, an episode like this one proves them right, proves that Shinji's The Worst. All of the worst people said it, so it must be true. Right?

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ryuki/ryuki42c.png

(Hey, big stuff happened in this episode outside of Shinji stuff, but I really just wanted to talk about Shinji stuff. Still, if you want to discuss any of the following with me, I'm sure I've got thoughts: Yui's got mirror powers, Toujou kills Professor, and Reiko gets out her rage by hitting a few dingers.)

I'd raise my hand too but I'd still support Shinji.

Also goodbye Alternative. I always thought they were a really cool both as a concept and as a character that maybe didn't get to do enough before Tiger cleans them both up.

For Professor, I wonder how much of it was trying to swerve the audience. Having Toujou rise up and take out his mentor, it's both a powerful moment for his character (huge emotions!) but also a pretty nice surprise. Professor's a dude who seemed like he was the shape of the endgame, someone who'd be influential in resolving the core dilemma of the show. Instead, nope, bumped off in 42. It's sort-of up to the viewer if that surprise factor (and what it does for Tiger) is worth losing a pretty intriguing character.

As someone who got into Rider back in '09, this is the exact attitude that people used to have about the Showa era vs. the OG Heisei.

And there we go into the thing I love about Tiger: his woefully inept moral code. His professor taught him that a hero is someone who would be willing to sacrifice a friend to save another, but Toujou was only half listening and missed the "would be willing to" part and just got "A hero something something something kill your friends." I love the idea that his entire philosophy is built around the fact that he doesn't understand metaphors.

So, fun story. I was typing that last paragraph and I suddenly remembered an old Kids in the Hall sketch. I feel like this sums up Toujou pretty well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_83MEuLoz9Y

Impaler is yet again another case of how distinct and memorable each rider in the Ryuki universe were to me (yes, even Kamen Rider Bad Police Yamcha). Love the kickboxing+gazelle gang theme, and I remember laughing out loud the first time I saw his Final Vent. So busybody and unnecessarily showy, but also quite fun to watch! Pretty much the perfect embodiment of Sano's persona.

Regarding Shinji, I agree with every word you said. A large reason why his character eventually worked for me was indeed how the show didn't shy from showing the repercussions of his philosophy, spitting out some harsh truths to its audience that the most noble and pacifist path is the hardest one to take, and you'd be much more likely to fail miserably (it's a pretty popular arc in Japanese pop culture at that period, e.g. the main characters in Rurouni Kenshin and Trigun). But, Shinji kept on trucking anyway, and as a teen watching this, I can't help but be won over by that after all the initial annoyance and frustration at this fool.

I used to wonder what Ryuki would be if it's more like your typical generic shounen anime, where Shinji eventually get most people to his side with the power of motivational Let's Be Friends speech; but at that point, it's not the Ryuki anymore, and definitely not the show I grew to love so much.

I just love that Professor gets the ironic death of being sacrificed by someone he's trying to teach the value of sacrifice, and how that shows the tragic outcome of his argument. Professor's like, You Can Have A Little Sacrifice, As A Treat, but once you open that door it's nearly impossible to close it. If people get to pick and choose who's expendable, it's going to lead to tragedy. Inevitably, you become a justifiable sacrifice for the greater good. It's not heroism to judge who should live or die, it's villainy.

Like, the restaurant scene in this one. It's all Professor trying to show Toujou why you make sacrifices, what you're making them for, but Toujou just sees more people who need to die to make them both heroes. By trying to tell Toujou it's okay to murder sometimes, he created an argument where's it's always a possibility to solve something with murder.

It's all why I'm okay with Professor dying in this one. He'd created a logical construct in Toujou's brain that required his own death, and he did it all by trying to argue for the usefulness of destroying the things you care about. Dude's story was only going end one way!

I always think there's something laudable about writing a flawed hero, even if it's not necessarily fun to watch. (But this is fun to watch, though!) To take steps to criticize a hero, to not build the world around him always being right, that's so much more challenging to land. It can make for stretches where you don't know why the character's doing something, or when it feels like they're being punished, but it can make for a much more rewarding experience in the long run.

There's a friend of mine who made a good point about music that maybe applies to characters like Shinji. He said that, when you listen to an album, your favorite song off of it probably isn't going to be the one you immediately enjoy. That one, you'll get tired of. Your favorite's probably going to be a song that didn't work for you right away, but after listening to it enough times it just clicks and you love it. The work you put in, the discovery, that's what makes you appreciate that song. I think it's that way for characters, too. Shinji maybe takes some work to enjoy, but I think he's worth it.

Honestly, in my opinion ryuki is extremely unique in the fact that I can actually REMEMBER all the different riders. They all stand out so much and have unique personalities. Half of me wants each one to have a miniseries dedicated to them, then I remember I would start defending toujou and asakuras way of thinking.

Sure Morimoto asking for Asakura's rights not to be treated as animal is the job, but he (actually the reason he asked for the rights) also seemingly plans to treat Asakura as a complete good guy and free him. Lawyer's job is to ensure the client's rights, proportionally, not necessarily to give best defense (like freeing a blatantly quilty client). I'd imagine if Morimoto isn't blinded (even though he's a moron he's undoubtedly good but still wrong here), he'd just ask about Asakura's rights, but not vigorously defend him from any bad accusations and Asakura likely still won't be free. When the public finds out a person was guilty and their lawyer knew it all along and still vigorously defended them, the reaction's usually negative (Even Kitaoka isn't free from this, public's nickname for him is "Black-or-White Lawyer"). The other right thing to prevent perjury also should be the lawyer refusing to represent an infamous fugitive whose crime is already well-known. For "1 to Kitaoka's 100" I still wonder what are the contents of Morimoto's file Goro gave to Kitaoka.

Yeah, I was refering to the easier accessibility too, which I think stems from people just contributing significantly more to the newer series, either in videos or informations (sites like TVTropes). New things like new story isn't necessarily better probably (or also old ones, for those blinded by nostalgia).

Sure Kitaoka is fooling around, with his usual flamboyant narcissism way (to Reiko especially), but that's to enlighten the mood and distract Reiko from the topic he wanted her to avoid discussing and know (Mirror stuff) which because he doesn't want Reiko to get closer to that topic for her safety. So I'd say he has equally balanced part for both of the bullshits.

So apart from the vote moment being funny it also... carries a deeper meaning to you as your discussions here. This one actually stems from Shinji's goal to stop the Rider War. And from the fact that all those terrible men dislikes Toujou and his crazy ideals (at least Kitaoka and Ren think Toujou's terrible), and just lumps Shinji together with him because accusing him to be similar to Toujou as he also wants to close the Mirror World, as a way to stop the Rider War.

Though this time, Sano wasn't flattering, he earnestly told Shinji about his backstory (you asked right?) though it also can be used to get him on his side. So you already noticed early that Sano is untrustworthy? Because some fans probably forget that (or being biased), because of Sano's relatable traits to them (hard adult life; problems with girls and economy). And even someone like Toujou asks about Sano's loyalty. Between the collection of terrible men here, I want to know how's Sano compared to them? He doesn't seem to do as much atrocity as Kitaoka or Toujou, but it's clear that he can easily betray or kill others (unlike... Ren).

You seem to never respond to this (also probably because you still tolerate Shinji here), but this is an Inoue stuff, his writing clashes with Kobayashi too much. He like, ignores character developments for more "drama", like Shinji here, doing the exact same mistake as the beginning part of the series, when Shinji trusts Sudo at ep. 5, putting Ren and Yui in jeopardy, although Sano isn't a pure evil person like Sudo. For your "growing out of that" question, didn't you complain about the status quo part of the series? But actually yes, Shinji did grow out of that. Though for those you mentioned except Asakura, they do have development, though their core character doesn't change. Shinji also grows up to gain some skeptical traits, some guarded traits, just recall episode 38 when he's being fishy about Toujou and act according to it! Doesn't mean his character core is changed like his take on the war, his ideals, or his care about people, but there's growth right there, he has matured. Those who are tired about Shinji making bad/dumb decisions are probably people who also has problems recognizing growth (never letting go of the beginning part of the series and treats everything in status quo), but those who do and follows Shinji should realize that Shinji's treatment is even worse in this one episode, he's not this dumb (like Ren's remark against him hiring Sano).

I'm going for... all. Probably Yui's thing against monsters can be attributed into ep. 14 where she repels Dragreder but it's likely just Dragreder leaving on his own avoiding the sister of Shiro (wild monsters won't attack her but controlled monsters like Contracts can), not her imposing her will on it like she does here (also Yui not being herself, her true self seemingly trapped in a white field and black feathers). There's also a... Kuuga effect on her. What will happen to the Riders if they scan a card while the monsters are turned against the masters?

Kagawa got an ironic death (as you already talked above) where he talks a big game about sacrificing others for the greater good, only to be killed by someone who bought what he was selling and saw him as a threat to the greater good. A testament of how much a lunatic Toujou is, he twisted all Kagawa's teachings in the worst way possible. Kagawa teaches that a hero must have courage to sacrifice something important to you for the greater good, and that a hero suffers... with Tiger only taking the sacrificing part, and Kagawa being the most important person in his life, combine those all, and by his mindset, Tiger should sacrifice Kagawa, where he would suffer by losing the most important person, and by suffering you would become a hero (and Alternative Zero was Final Vented in a facing-down position, the worst way to get Final Vented by Tiger, you can't fight back Destwilder at all).Toujou took it upon himself to create his own suffering by losing his mentor. Where was Ryuki or Imperer, did they even notice this betrayal?

Now Kitaoka's usual flattering sthick on Reiko won't work, he's just being direct and tells Reiko to stop chasing "fantasy stories", like what civilians would think against someone who knows the obscure fantasy traits in a world where most of them are unknown. This shows the rare soft side of Kitaoka (if you weren't convinced before, this one should), wanting the 2nd person he cared the most (Reiko's life, not her handling the truth) to be safe from potential dangers Riders/Mirror Monsters (or just Shiro) give, forcing Kitaoka to embrace his "weak side" Goro admires for Reiko (does Kitaoka also feel weak by caring for Goro?).

I mean, Toujou's way of thinking, okay, maybe. He's someone who wants to feel like a tortured hero so much that he tortures himself. (Like, I think he's legitimately jazzed when he figures out that he cares enough about Professor that killing him would be a sacrifice.) I think there's some bit of most people that they'd like to be seen as a hero, that maybe they want to feel that resolve of having overcome something. Is that what running a marathon is? Pushing yourself to see what you can handle? So, Toujou, it's possible.

But Asakura?! His way of thinking is that he needs to be fighting people all the time! Don't think that way!

I don't know about the Japanese legal system circa the early 2000s, but in America you can 100% get a retrial if your lawyer refuses to give you an adequate defense. If you can show bias or negligence, you can get a do-over. Morimoto absolutely needs to try to get the best outcome possible for his client.

I don't feel like I know enough about Imperer to fit him into the moral spectrum the show established. In two episodes, he's been played mostly for laughs. Beyond that, there seems to be an effort to tag him as being worse than the villains because he's not fighting for anything deep. To quote The Wire, a man's got to have a code. Imperer doesn't, so even antiheroes like Ren and full-blown villains like Toujou despise him. That's a fun flipside to how goofy he is in the show, to make his actions feel more evil by how shallow his motivations are.

A lot here! Let's see if I can unpack it all.

-Saying one writer's style "clashes too much" with another's, that's super subjective. If you dislike the tone of non-Kobayashi episodes, I can't disagree that there's a difference, but I like both takes.

-I don't know that Inoue ignores that much character development for Shinji in this one? He's got a slightly different read on Shinji, maybe, but Shinji wanting to believe that he caused a dude to have a change of heart and then that dude took advantage of Shinji's trust... I think we've seen that move more often on this show than Ryuki's Final Vent? It's a pretty ingrained part of Shinji's character.

-My complaints about the endless status quo of certain episodes, I tried to emphasize when talking about this episode that there are core characteristics that you can't change about a character, and Shinji's gullibility is one of those. I wasn't trying to say that the show shouldn't change anything about the characters.

I hope this made some sense? I'm not totally clear on some of that paragraph. Sorry!

I think what I found most interesting is that, it's not that Toujou corrupted his message and misunderstood his teachings, it's that his lesson was inherently flawed. It felt like the show was trying to deconstruct that sort of stoic heroism, the myth of the noble sacrifice. In reality, choosing to kill someone "for the greater good" is just killing someone. A person can choose to sacrifice themselves, but you can't choose to sacrifice them. The end result of Professor's ideology is a justification for murder, and that's going to allow murderers to feel justified.

Less that aspect; more one of his earlier lines of "I beat a man to death because he annoyed me" is something a part of me agrees with. That is not a good thing. but yes; the whole cast of riders is beyond well written. Instead of decade cameos in later series, why can't we have kitakoa or raia show up?

Kagawa also taught him that "a hero is someone who suffers", and that gives an idea for Toujou to torture himself. And yeah for Asakura he's made to have no redeeming qualities at all... don't make a hero out of him (just because he's cool)... seriously.

Just saying, the thing I explained above, it comes from me asking a friend who takes a law degree. A good lawyer shouldn't completely free the guilty, just clear up the injustice treatment.

I probably just think that you just don't seem to notice much from the clashing writings, I will post the review I talk about to clear up as I don't want to copy the contents from it. But one of those is that Inoue tends to ignore character developments as a way to derail characters (sometimes even coming from nowhere to add negative traits to them like episode 7 of Ryuki) for more drama. I already said it before for the Shinji's character development... episode 38?? There you go for skeptical Shinji, guarded Shinji, he has matured! Doesn't mean his core characteristic changes (like you said for Ren and Kitaoka) like his take on the war and how he cares about people, but also doesn't mean he's still the same self seen in episode 6 to Scissors!! I think you have to notice the episode 38 part about Shinji deducing SSSS' plan in form of Toujou and act according to it to stop it.

While Kagawa's lesson is flawed, Toujou did make it worse. Kagawa's already trying to keep Toujou in check, to reduce unecessary killing like stopping Tiger killing Ryuki or pointing out the flaws in his take like the fact that a hero should care about humans when he calls out Kagawa for caring about his family who he wants to sacrifice earlier.

MASKED RIDER RYUKI EPISODE 43

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/...i43schmidt.gif

There's this sadness at work in this episode of Ryuki, despite all of the laughs and fights. At least, god, I found some of it really heartbreaking.

Toujou and Sano are not doing great. Toujou's killed his mentor with an eye on true heroism, only to get his newly-solo ass kicked first by Asakura, then by Kitaoka, then by Asakura and Kitaoka. Sano's looking for a team to join, but he's ignored by Toujou, beaten by Shinji, mocked by Kitaoka, and threatened by Asakura. (I guess, even at his lowest, Sano knew to steer clear of Ren.) This whole episode is the two newest Riders getting frozen out and hunted. It's open season on Tiger and Imperer.

But, y'know, it's also the establishment guarding itself against outsiders. It's one generation mocking the next. It's people who can't find their footing, can't get a way into the game, being told they lack motivation, they haven't earned a chance, by the people on top.

That element of the episode, how locked out Sano and Toujou are, I thought that was a really sad way to tell their story. The fact that all they have in the end is each other, that nobody gets them or wants to get them.. I don't know. I thought it was a compellingly bittersweet ending. I'm not sure, exactly, how the show's trying to come down on the Kids Today Amirite undercurrent of this episode. I'm not sure if they're trying to garner sympathy for the kids, or lump them both together to wag a finger at the poor character of today's generation. They picked a couple of complicated kids to try this story with. Tiger and Imperer, they pretty much made their bed before this one. Tiger had plenty of opportunities to make his mark, to find a role, but he destroyed those chances in a bid to feel important. Imperer could've served a number of higher causes, but he became a joke by selling out early and often. These are not really two characters that deserve sympathy. But, man, they got it from me in this one. Toujou's realization that he's totally on his own for the first time is brutal. Sano's (well-deserved!) beating at the hands of Shinji, the sweetest Rider, was a clear sign that he was thoroughly screwed. They are both isolated and in danger.

So them together at the end, I liked it a lot. They don't have much in common, but they're two kids who don't have a future, two kids that no adult respects, and I think I'm rooting for them a little bit now. Hell of a job pulling that out of me, show!

For the rest of this episode, uh... not much to say? Shinji and Ren run around Mirror World looking for Yui, who's still silent and powerful and Shiro-Lite. Nothing really happens in that plot, but I assume that's going to be dealt with shortly. Oh, and there's zero Reiko in this one, so it's zip for the Ore Journal investigative stuff. Pretty much just Toujou and Sano against the Adults this time out, and, yeah, way more affecting than I thought that story would be.

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ryuki/ryuki43b.png

The way you described them had me thinking 'Wait, Toujou and Sano aren't that much younger than eveyone else, are they?" At least, I never really thought of Imperer as a 'kid' in any sense.

It's a weird thing on this show, or maybe even just this episode, where they feel so much lower than everyone else. For Toujou, he's a college student, so he's probably the youngest Rider they've shown so far. For Sano, it's mostly him treating everyone else like a superior (to suck up) and Kitaoka blowing him off as a dumb kid. It really felt like this episode was trying to categorize them as The Youngest Riders, despite everyone in the cast probably being within three years of each other. I mean, according to the Wiki, even Auntie is only a few months older than Yui. It's true! You don't even have to check! I saved you the trouble!

Yea, it's less of the age thing and more the show portraying these two naive kids as some hotshot newcomers who think they got it all figured out and try to act all pragmatic. The whole allusion to the corporate world is very much on the nose, what's with the 'business card' stuff and basically everything with Sano's demeanour.

I think it's equally true that the show condemns their attitude while also wanting us to sympathize with them by making sure we understand where they come from. It's not like they're Scissors or Gai; at this point of the series, I perceived them as two confused kids who just need a good mentor figure, an 'experienced senior that genuinely cares about them' type, to straighten them up. Which is... yeah...

Yeah, a million times this. Something like Gaim's Gaiden character focus would've been great, but unlike Gaim, I also felt that Ryuki already did all the Rider characters justice and that there's no more story left to told for each of them; by the end of it, I felt like I've already had a perfect grasp on everyone's backstory, motivation, and entire personality. Which in itself is really impressive considering how many of them they are.

Dunno if you haven't read my reply above (because you were busy typing ep. 43) or have read but can't add anything, I especially want you to understand the Shinji part.

I want to talk about the Tiger vs Ouja fight, which happened right after Toujou is eating (Toujou have just finished eating, it wouldn't be good for him to immediately went into action!), that has to be one of the most well-choreographed fight in the series, with both fighters nearly using everything on their arsenal at their fullest. Tiger and Ouja scans their weapon cards, where even if Tiger's Claws got disarmed, Tiger still can fight back because his visor is also a weapon. And then Asakura makes a good use of his contract monsters yet Tiger counters them well, where Tiger summons Destwilder to help, only to get countered by Metalgelas in a monster faceoff. Ouja prepares his Veno Crash (Venosnaker's kick) Final Vent, only to get countered by Tiger's Freeze Vent. Finally, with Tiger running out of options, Ouja uses his Hide Venom (Evildiver) Final Vent where Tiger... avoids by jumping? I only wish that Tiger retrains his claws to block the Final Vent because I don't know if that situation has a Final Vent not killing other Riders or it just narrowly missed Tiger.

Also damn during this sequence.... Ouja should've used Tiger as a human shield like he did to Gai!
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...246/attack.png
And also an oopsie for Kitaoka... Asakura was wounded and knocked unconscious, while the excuses of Riders not killing each other throughout the series was Mirror World time limit (and psychological/physical effect to them)... not this one. This situation should've been an extremely easy kill for Kitaoka with any way like henshin and shoot him, or even at the very least, turn him into police again.

For Toujou, the fact that no one wants to get him... shapes himself as a Rider for a whole. He fully knows that he's an outcast and he thinks only Sano is nice to him after Kagawa. This part will be discussed deeper in the next episode. The book Toujou reading was The Metamorphosis by Kefka.

If you have sympathy for them, why do you think that it's well-deserved for Shinji to beat Sano up? Those sympathising with Imperer wants the best for him which includes... not being treated like that (they want other Riders to accept him more, treat him with respect for example, probably they forget Imperer's untrustworthy traits anyway due to relazting to him). And other than that... Goro is just as dismissive to Sano. And Toujou before the end of the episode also kind of dismisses Sano too, only tolerating him due to Kagawa. Sano overall mirrors Shinji (at the beginning, and even then Shinji's still better than him to deduce about wish granting and how Contract Monster works) a bit in naivety where he knows the least about the war; about how Shiro specifically picks terrible people for the war (including yourself?) who treats others like shit, how the war is settled by killing each other until one Rider remaining, how he thinks money can buy everything including friendship and respect, and the worst one coming up next. Only also add up morally grey traits in him where he can easily betray or kill other people, due to money-oriented part. Even if Shinji gives Sano free orders on Atori... did he deal with Sanako for this (if yes, how?), Shinji's not the owner! And how did Sano still be able to get free drinks later as Sanako seemingly closed down Atori?

For Sano story, does this remind you of, Shinji in 13 Riders? Yeah this is the plot I talked about when discussing 13 Riders. Both constantly searching for partner only to be constantly rejected. The ideal development for Sano should be realizing that this is a battle where Riders kill each other until one man standing so you shouldn't partner up at all. And Sano's so dumb lol that he didn't even realize the "letter" Kitaoka gives is just a huge "manuke" (=fool) word, and if you give that to Asakura.... priceless!

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...626/manuke.png

The part when Shinji mistakes other girls for Yui (are you Metalgelas mistaking others for Asakura?) should've been able to be used as a... comedy material if not for the episode's situation; I've known some commercials where the comedy is mistaking other people for someone they know. There's also usual Ren thing where he just completely ignores Shinji (on his dismay, but Ren's completely got a point) after gaining the bits of the info and just act away. Shiro-Lit™ is Kuuga effect. Another Contract Monster, Psyco-Rogue is killed here.

Nope. Toujou is 25, Sano is 21 yeah the youngest but he's the same as Shibaura age-wise. Sanako is 45, and her actor Kazue Tsunogae has passed away in 2018 (So you also use wiki to gain more informations? Well for starter the wiki refered Sanako as grandmother). Here's full info for the character's ages t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶Y̶u̶i̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶1̶9̶.̶

I just found them unusually sympathetic, these two knuckleheads. I think the mentor thing, it's maybe part of the problem? They've both got versions of success that they've put in their heads, what it'll mean to succeed. A lot of that is because of what they've been taught by society, the people they looked up to. If anything, I think the fact that they've only got each other to rely on now, maybe there's less pressure on them? It feels like a better support system for them than another mentor telling them how to behave.

I did read it, yes! I didn't really have anything to say about it, though. Sorry! It was good!

Yeah, but then it'd be cold-blooded murder, and... I just don't think Kitaoka's that guy? Or, at least, he isn't anymore, if he ever was.

I did want to bring this up, but I forgot. It is criminal that a franchise with a sprawling number of characters that turn into bugmen gave a copy of Kafka's Metamorphosis to a tigerman. So close!

Someone can earn something and it can still be sad to see them receive it. Plus, it's basic cause-and-effect storytelling. Of course Shinji's going to want to pound Sano after a betrayal that lead to Yui's disappearance. Shinji's very trusting, but he's got a well-established temper. Sano popping out of a floorboard like everything's cool, that's going to set Shinji off for sure. Just because I found Sano and Toujou sympathetic doesn't mean I'm going to forgive all of their bad decisions, nor am I rooting against Shinji.

Weird, there are a ton of errors on that page. All of the Riders were born on the exact same day to 13 different mothers. (The studio was forced to cast all of them if they wanted any of them, that's why there are thirteen Riders in Ryuki.) Auntie's definitely only 22. I'll contact the webmaster at once to get that corrected. Thanks for bringing this to my attention!

MASKED RIDER RYUKI EPISODE 44

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ryuki/ryuki44a.png

So, Sano and Toujou.

I was three paragraphs into talking about this episode, and I just deleted it all. My head's a mess of thoughts about this one, about the arc of Sano and the ongoing journey of Toujou, about the importance of telling this story, about how it's necessary to explain the difference between want and need when it comes to character motivation, about what friendship means to characters that aren't happy with themselves, about how goals are meaningless if you don't understand why you're pursuing them, about the tragedy of having something to protect in a story that makes that a weakness.

There's a lot in this episode, and I really loved it, but it's almost too much to talk about. So this, this one's going to maybe be more feverish and scattered than usual.

Ha ha, wrote another one and a half paragraphs, deleted 'em. Man! Why is it so hard to talk about this episode?

The main thing in it that I liked is how it's exploring the idea of motivations, of want vs need. There's a hollowness to Sano and Toujou's characters, as they're driven more by what they want (wealth, respect, love) than what they need. They'll do horrible things to get what they want, but there's this sense that they're not sure having it will help. Toujou especially. His confession to Sano, that he thinks being a hero will make people love him, it's heartbreaking. It's the saddest thing I've probably seen on this show. But it's not the sort of all-consuming drive that Ren has to save Eri, or Kitaoka has to save Kitaoka. It's not the sort of pressure he'll need to survive these battles. It's this hope that maybe this goal will validate his suffering, will be the thing that allows him to feel loved. It's a sadness straining to give itself context. He keeps trying to activate that level of commitment, to transform want into need, but it's all play-acting. It's going through the motions. He can't find happiness because he sees happiness as an external thing, something to be captured or obtained. It's tragic, his character.

Aaaaaand that's a whole paragraph on Sano that got deleted.

Jesus. This episode!

I don't know. Really gotta think on this one. It's doing something inside my brain. It's like it destroyed the concept of vocabulary, like all I can do is just point at it and go HOW DID THEY MAKE ME SO SAD ABOUT THESE TWO VILLAINS.

I don't even know how to talk about Sano in this. I've been writing and deleting dumb things for an hour, probably. I'll have a way in, I'll think, and then it'll just be nonsense. Dumb stuff about how he gains something to protect when it's most dangerous to have it. I think there's something there, about how the show makes a character's strength the same as his weakness, but I don't know how to talk about it for Sano. I don't know how to talk about this episode at all, it feels like. I don't think I've ever had an episode I enjoyed this much, or found as much quality in, while being absolutely stripped of the ability to articulate it. It's not even writer's block or anything, because I've got no problem writing this self-pitying garbage, but good god is the Sano part of this episode, the major part of this episode… it's like it evaporates as soon as I go near it.

So, Toujou again.

His friendship with Sano in this was great, how neither of them seems to feel friendship on an emotional level. For Sano, it's transactional. Friends are something you can buy, either directly with money or indirectly with kindness. Except, y'know, it's not really kindness, it's a down-payment on a favor. Toujou's worse, with friendship just being another word for something he can destroy to feel heroic. Both of them, it's sociopathic, a human life as a way to make themselves feel better. There's a hollowness in them, a lack of clarity to their motivations and a desperate need to feel worthwhile, and their warped connection to each other is a horrorshow that's indistinguishable from friendship to them.

Well, that's only the start of a paragraph that got deleted, so, you know, progress.

I don't know. I don't know. I love this episode, but I hate talking about it. I think it broke my brain. I think it's making me hate thinking about and talking about Kamen Rider. I'm throwing this one to you guys. I have to stop trying to talk about this episode. I have to get out of my head. I'm definitely freaking out.

You guys talk about it, maybe I'll be able to construct something in response, or after a while, or I don't know maybe never maybe this is the last post about Ryuki I don't know I don't know I don't know.

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ryuki/ryuki44b.png

Yeah, I was watching this episode 2 days ago and barely registered anything. Even Imperer’s death. I knew it was coming (since the movie branches off from episode 45 and Sano isn’t in it), but it really failed to compute with me.

Who knows? Maybe next episode will pick things up for me.

I see you've absolutely mastered steps 8 and 9 of my process for writing thoughts about Kamen Rider episodes. :p

Yeah, man, the Imperer arc though, what a ride that one is. These are the last episodes of the show written by Inoue, and he really leaves on a high note. I don't think I've explicitly mentioned this yet, but as much as I enjoy his episodes of Ryuki for the most part, I find his take on the series clashes with Kobayashi's a bit at times, especially when it comes to Shinji's characterization, which tends to play up his more goofy traits at the expense of a lot of his depth.

I think that's why these four episodes, focused so squarely on two side characters that everything involving Shirou and Yui somehow becomes the B-plot, they're really good. There's some spectacular characterization going on, and the gut-punch tragic ending is among the least forced that kind of Inoue melodrama gets. Like, it's legitimately a little haunting, and I've always remembered it visually super strongly even all these years later, which made a lot more sense to me when I went to check the director credits for these episodes and found out that the 43 and 44 were done by Hidenori Ishida, who I keep finding out I apparently have nothing but good things to say about.

Even the episode title for 44 is just perfect in a way that makes me upset so many early Heisei shows straight up refused to put them in the episodes. "Glass Happiness" Get it? Because it's Ryuki, so obviously glass factors hugely into the imagery in general, but here it directly implies how the sense of satisfaction Sano is seeking in life is both transparent and easily shattered? That's wonderful. These episodes are awesome.

Get ready for a million posts about Episode 44 of Ryuki, I guess.

There's a visual this episode keeps coming back to, a caged bird in Sano's shitty apartment. I keep thinking about that image. It's evocative in a way that Kamen Rider... I don't think symbolism is necessarily a go-to move in Kamen Rider. There's camera moves and set-ups that are frequently used to tell a story (that shot from a few episodes of the chair between Shinji and Toujou, how the barrier informs their incompatibility), but using an item, calling it back, it's not really part of the language of Kamen Rider to me.

That goddamn bird, though.

To me, the cage is Sano and Toujou's need to achieve. They're trapped by it, by the need to get rich or be a hero, even while they convince themselves that it's... I don't know, safer, more comfortable. That this prison they've built for themselves of expectation is a liberation, is something that can deliver happiness.

Or, maybe the bird is the concept of happiness, locked away but always visible. Toujou and Sano know what happiness looks like, but they can't possess it.

Or they're the bird, and the cage is the choices they've made that are now containing them, reducing them.

Hmm.

I liked that this story got told, and told now. It's a good point in the show to do a thing on a set of Riders who don't know why they're fighting. We've seen all sorts of heroism and villainy, but the idea of futility, I don't think that's one we've spent a huge amount of time with. There's a nihilism, maybe, to Sano and Toujou's story. These guys who, even when they're fighting to achieve something or protect something, really can't articulate it any better than I can. It's like their lives are the result of an ill-informed decision, and they can't even tell you why they care.

So much of this show is about characters with clear, precise motivations, delineated and explicated. Before it's all over, it's nice to see what it means to be a directionless Rider in Shiro's game. To see that ennui and nascent self-discovery punished by heroism and villainy alike.

It's hard, maybe, to tell that kind of story well. It's a tragic end for a comedy character, and a new level of inhumanity for a killer. I can't stop thinking about it, though.

The line at the end. "I just wanted to be happy.” I keep rolling that around in my mind.

I think of it as supporting the idea that goals don't mean anything if you don't why you're pursuing them. Sano's been given everything he wanted, but it doesn't really fix him. He doesn't have anyone he can depend on. His money can't buy him safety from Shiro. And even with this thing he got, I don't even think he's really happy?

Even as he's got all this, and he fights to protect Yuri and his wealth and prestige, he's still alone. He dies alone, trapped in another world, able to see Yuri but unable to be seen. He dies still wanting to be happy. He dies for trappings, for the symbols of what he thinks a happy life is. He dies hoping that someone will save him, protect him, all so that he can find the sense of fulfillment that eludes him.

Or, I don't know, maybe he's truly content and the tragedy is that if he'd never chosen to be a Rider he'd actually get to keep and enjoy it. But I don't think so. I think he's someone who assumes that wealth is happiness, that status is respect, and longs to truly feel that.

Maybe!

It's just really difficult for me to explain the emotion of watching this episode, seeing this story play out. If it'd just been about Sano, I think I'd've had a way to talk about that. But tossing in Toujou's story, conflating Toujou's despair with Sano's incremental doom, it made this reaction happen in my brain that was both exhilarating and indescribable. There're words for the events, for the moments, but I'm not sure there're words for the feeling. You know? That's the part I'm having trouble sharing.

Or HA HA maybe it's all too clear how insane this episode made me!

What if I just talk about that part, then.

There's a beauty to a lot of this episode, but especially the scenes in Sano's apartment. The way those scenes focus on Toujou, how they don't seem to be about judging him or punishing him, but are about trying to understand him, to reach him. They're scenes that value Toujou's journey, that allow him autonomy. Even in his his horrifying villainy, there's a feeling of sadness for him, in this episode. I think that feeling, along with the regrettable inevitability of Sano's death, it saturates this episode. Watching it was... harrowing, maybe. The small moments where real humanity is shown become these, like, flickers in the darkness. Toujou's confession, Sano's death scene, they were perfectly pitched and immensely real.

I still don't feel like I'm describing this well.

No, no, I think it's coming across pretty clearly. You're saying the episode... is good! :p

It's okay if this takes a million more posts to get out of your system, though. Like, that in of itself might be the biggest possible statement about your feelings on it you could make? Or something? The crazy part is, there's still going to be more Tiger to talk about after this.

I feel like I'm in that room with them, and I always will be. I'm the chirping bird, and the cage is my weird feelings about Toujou and Sano.

All of the scenes of Sano's success, I love how unreal they are. There's a dreamlike quality to them, all these old men telling him how great he is, how special and perfect he is. The speed at which he ascends to the heights he always dreamed of, it's bizarre. It'd be a joke, if it didn't feel like a parable.

It's heightened, but everything in this story feels heightened. Or not everything, and that's why the heightened stuff works so well? It's that apartment. It's like an anchor for the story, a refuge from a world of dreams and nightmares. Toujou smashing the windows, covering the reflections, it sets that part of the story outside of the narrative, allows it to be smaller, more intimate. The time spent on Toujou just getting out of bed! Those smaller scenes, they emphasize and underline how absurd Sano's life has become, how little he's changed fundamentally despite the absurdity. He can have a flashy car and a briefcase of cash (that look on Ren's face, the way money doesn't matter except this isn't money this is MONEY), but he's still a small man, trying to figure himself out, trying to understand his own motivations.

That apartment. Man. It's key to what makes this story work, I think.

Oh well just that there're times where you keep using your takes in discussions without change after I explained and corrected something (ex: Shiro controlling monsters, Reiko-Kitaoka stuff for a while, etc.), so I thought you ignored those parts, I also want to know if there's a hole in my explanations or something.

Oh well I think he doesn't like getting his hands dirty (partly why he shoots)... but either way shooting him isn't the only way like you can drag him into Mirror World (taking away his Deck too) or just turn him into the police again.

Really you should've. It also carries a deeper meaning philosophically, as the review site I talk about attests.

C̶a̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶a̶t̶t̶r̶i̶b̶u̶t̶e̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶o̶ ̶S̶a̶n̶o̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶n̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶h̶a̶n̶d̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶n̶o̶n̶-̶f̶i̶g̶h̶t̶e̶r̶.̶.̶.̶ ̶w̶h̶o̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶f̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ ̶b̶a̶c̶k̶ ̶M̶i̶r̶r̶o̶r̶ ̶M̶o̶n̶s̶t̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶w̶h̶i̶c̶h̶ ̶a̶p̶p̶e̶a̶r̶s̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶w̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶e̶a̶c̶h̶ ̶g̶l̶a̶s̶s̶e̶s̶/̶m̶i̶r̶r̶o̶r̶s̶.̶ Won't have time to break all mirrors surrounding you, gotta destroy all buildings as most places have reflective surface to keep people safe.

What are you... smoking here?

(yay i can stop thinking about episode 44 for a second)

I'm only one man! I'm doing my best!

Well, Kitaoka tells Asakura in a previous episode that he's not going to get the police involved again, since Asakura will just break out.

But, more than that, I think it's that sportsmanship thing coming back up again. Kitaoka wouldn't have any problem killing Asakura in a Rider Battle, but at this point I don't think he'd take him out when he's defenseless. It's character growth! Goro would be so proud!

I'm only one man! I'm doing my best!

Sometimes there are jokes.

When you started talking about Toujou/Sano symbiosis a couple episodes back, all I could think to myself was "I can't wait to see this guy's reaction to that part", but even then I didn't expect this :lol

After all that, I had to go back and watch the Toujou-Sano scenes and the climax of this ep myself... and boy, I forgot how insanely good the visual framing/composition was for this. The last few minutes in particular; Sano staggering while yelling repeatedly at the piece of glass, each sounded progressively more desperate than the last (fantastic piece of acting, by the way). Yuri standing in desolation under the rain (she didn't got much screentime or lines even, but we could tell how badly she wanted this to work out). Last words from Sano. Glass shattered. Impeccable trio of shots to close out in complete silence: the empty street, bird in a cage, the empty room.

I'm not as well-versed as you guys regarding the names of KR directors/screenwriters and their respective stylish trait, but this makes me want to learn. I have a sudden hunch that there may be a common thread among the moments that most affected me, emotionally speaking, from the Phase I shows (Ryuki and Faiz in particular).

(Also I was going to watch a newer KR show for the first time after I'm done with the current shows I'm watching... screw that though, I'm going to re-watch Ryuki instead :v Blame this whole thread).

Sano's story is very Twilight Zone-esque in retrospect after reading this.

I feel like I was able to make up in quantity what I lacked in quality. It's better than nothing!

That sequence is so good that it's easy to forget that, uh, Yuri isn't really a character! Normally that'd bug me, but her presence is just as Wish Fulfillment as everything else in Sano's story. But, yeah, everything about how long it takes Sano to die is amazing. The actor who plays Sano finds something primal in this weird mirror death, the bargaining for one last chance, and that desperate desire to be seen, to be acknowledged... Goddamn, it hits like a truck.

I hope you like it! I hear it's pretty good! I'm planning on catching it someday.

It really is! His whole situation in this is a tragedy straight out of the Rod Serling playbook. He became a Rider to get rich, got rich anyway, then got killed for being a Rider. It's a man being punished for his shortsightedness, his impatience. He was never seen by the rich people, and then he died as a rich person who wasn't seen.

Sano's death is one of the Toshiki Inoue-est moments in all of Kamen Rider. It works and is really memorable, but it has a very specific flavor of pathos that is classic Inoue.