No, but I am now.

In a lot of ways, this felt like a reset, maybe, for how the show wants to tell its stories and where the emotional weight is going to land. It'd feel out of place or disconnected, if it weren't for how much this show has been telling us over and over, in little ways, that you should really really avoid being a Kamen Rider at all costs. Ryotaro randomly mentioning a few episodes ago that Ryuta still thinks about killing him, everything we're seeing with Yuuto/Sakurai... even the idea that when good Imagins fulfill their purpose, they die.

It's definitely a topic Kobayashi likes to talk about. There was that Ryuki story about a kid who thought Kamen Riders were cool, but the end of the story is Goro weeping for Kitaoka and telling this kid he's a callous prick for wanting to enjoy the weekly adventures of Kamen Riders. This isn't to that level of Art Vs Commerce disconnect (although I wonder how distraught some kids were when they played with their Zeronos role-play items after this one), but the idea of a Kamen Rider's arc being one of constant sacrifice and eventual destruction is a pretty Kobayashi story.

I'm not sure the show ever felt like Zeronos was gone forever, so I don't know how much of a surprise his return is meant to be. There's too much Time Nonsense to keep anyone down for good. I will say that this episode did a ton to support the idea of Zeronos coming back now, in ways beyond the standard The Main Rider Is Outnumbered/Outgunned. (Although the show did that, too!) They really built a nice little framework to talk about guilt, duty, and responsibility. Seems like a good time to force Zeronos to make more sacrifices!

(And that Kaixa thing is EVIL.)

KAMEN RIDER DEN-O EPISODE 36 - "DREAMS GET A PERFECT 100”

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/deno/den36a.png
https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/deno/den36b.png

Jesus Christ, this show and its production changes.

Just when I'm getting into a rhythm with this show (I really enjoyed the last episode!), they change stuff up again. The Hana to Kohana move was... I mean, I wasn't a fan of Hana leaving, but I really warmed to Kohana's presence. There're a ton more changes this time (so much so that I'll break them down in The Baggage Car), and it's just... man, it is a lot. It's almost like an entirely different show.

The good news is, it's still very much an episode of Kamen Rider Den-O. Some new names and faces, sure, but we're still getting a story where Yuuto has to grapple with the impermanence of his existence, and how to navigate his own self-worth amidst others' perceptions of him.

And, yeah, boy is this another Yuuto episode! Dude is definitely the focal point of this run of episodes. Ryotaro and the rest of the cast are a little more off to the side in this one, so we're really drilling into Yuuto's need for connection, as seen with Sakura's story.

It's a fun way of looking at Yuuto's dilemma. Sakura is someone who knew him in another life, helped him dream of a better future, and the loss of that connection leaves him feeling untethered. She doesn't remember him, and so not only can she not help him find some town (I'm guessing this is the town the ZeroLiner and Hana are from? With the new train line from the last couple episodes?), but she's not even the woman who inspired him anymore. She created a framework for him to understand his worth as a person, and now she's some aimless student. It's dispiriting to Yuuto. But he doesn't let it stop him from being a hero, since he doesn't need to keep getting Sakura's approval. He's absorbed her lesson about following your dreams, and now he can inspire her to follow hers. He can have value beyond someone's approval of him, which is a pretty helpful lesson for a guy that everyone's forgetting!

The whole monster plot's about grades and worth (really fun Imagin in this one, with all of the goofy You Get A Zero gags), so it's nice to have an emotional story that's about how arbitrary grades can be, and that what matters is the ability to believe in yourself. (Momo gets a great gag about shrugging off the Pen Imagin's Zero Point Attack because he's gotten so many zeros as grades that he doesn't mind them. It's funny, and another reminder that you can't let others define your worth.) It's a bit of a turn from the normal Den-O stories about controlling your emotions or grieving or whatnot, but it still manages to center itself on Yuuto's ability to survive his own questionable existence and find some happiness.

Like, that's the thing that made the MASSIVE production changes work out for me: They still told a Yuuto story about the value of memories, and they did it in a way that honored Yuuto's arc. They may've changed a ton of things in the show, but they managed to keep it feeling like a Kamen Rider series. As long as they do that, I'll keep enjoying it.

I mean, at least it's not a Sentai, you know?

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/deno/den36c.png

THE BAGGAGE CAR

-So! Many! Changes!

-The idea of giving all of the DenLiner Imagin new humans to possess in lieu of having the suits around is a pretty weird change (loved those suits!), but it allows the cast to interact a lot more outside of the DenLiner. It helps visually that, like, Kintaros may be possessing some lady, but he's still in yellow, Ryotaro's new actor is in red for Momo's possession, Yuuto's new actor is in green, etc etc. Really easy to watch this episode and figure out who was who.

-And, hey, new actors for Ryotaro and Yuuto! The Yuuto one was great, where he's playing Yuuto with a bit more warmth, a bit more compassion. It's not a change I'd've wanted to see a few episodes ago, but it's necessary if the show's going to move Yuuto into a more central role (as it looks like they are here). Ryotaro, though... I mean, we only ever see him when he's possessed by Momo, but he's maybe not as good? He's playing it more bubbly than I'd expect from Momo, which, I don't know. I thought it worked fine in the context of this episode, but it might be limiting down the line.

-I love that when they reconceived Urataros, they changed nothing? He's still some bespectacled flirt who gets distracted by attractive women? I guess if it ain't broke, you know?

-Super great touch to have Ryuta end up possessing basically Young Airi? That is brilliant, because of course that's how Ryuta would want to see himself. That's his idealized human, right? God, so smart of this show to pick that type of actor to play New Ryuta.

-Kohana as some weird miner dude... is that supposed to be a play on Kohana being a minor? It's a stretch, but I can't even a little figure out how the show leapt from one version to the next. Also, super typical of the show to marginalize Hana/Kohana as soon as they make a change to her character. Some things never change!

-Speaking of, nice to see that Naomi and Owner are exactly the same. If they weren't a robot lady with lipstick and a guy with an angry hand puppet, I wouldn't feel like I was watching Den-O anymore.

No joke: for today, I considered actually doing the next episode you were going to do. It since I had no idea what that would be, I decided instead to do episode 35 of a thematically similar show. But since I didn’t want to set aside the tiem to take photos for it, I instead went with what I posted. I’m still pleased with the result (even if it does involve some awkward wording to fit the acrostic poem)

I just read your post on your Hurricaneger thread! Holy shit, is it actually April 1st? Man, I totally spaced on the day. (Work's been nuts!) That's a funny gag you did. Wish I'd remembered, so I could've done something fun. Maybe next year!

Only good thing I can say about this episode. That and the new soundtrack.

Mixed bag on the soundtrack! Liked the new opening okay (lateral move, but it's a great new song), but I thought the switch from Double Action was a bit of a downgrade. Super subjective, but the fight song wasn't my fave.

New Naomi is fun, though. I can't tell if Mana-chan still does the voiceover? Where's Androzani84's credits for this sprawling episode?!

Know what? I'm just glad you referenced Toqger at all in this thread despite stating how much you're not interested in Sentai :lol

Zeronos? Yuto? No idea what you're talking about.

ToQger? What? No, this is Kamen Rider Den-O. I hate those weird train kids! I can't endorse watching ToQger. They kidnapped Mai!

Poor Yuuto, forgotten already.

Well yeah, as the next episode pointed out, the Imagins have gotten stronger. Also I'd like for any series to not have the rule of forcing any escalation to be set in stone, like how in Wizard, one of the stronger enemies are on the middle part of the series like Phoenix.

Kintaros being "too well-meaning" is appropriate btw. It's training to be stronger as a hero, by saving others from evildoers that needs to be solved by fighting like monsters, not about throwing your power around to others, like what Momo did to hapzardly fight any humans that he deems as "bad guys", Momo still hasn't changed from what he were at the beginning (pulling this shit against bullies).

Why would the thought of Kohana challenging Ryotaro come out? Kohana is well, 'ko' (little) version of Hana, and she was fiercely protective and nurturing of Ryotaro. She always did something that would be favorable for Ryotaro, and a quick one regarding that - no "something that is painful but will be favorable later" like forms of tough love. Her debut was also protecting Ryotaro from car drivers who acts overboard to Ryotaro accidentally crashing his bike on their car door (bad luck again). Well, it's true that if and when the stakes are high and there is little time left for the sweet toku hero like him to continue mourning (e.g. the world will literally be destroyed very soon), even though it's understandable for them to mourn, it's the time when being emotional is detrimental, they should try to temporarily put aside their mourning and just do something to try stop the incoming catastrophe, being able to temporarily put aside the mourning is a sign of maturity, instead of a sign of being emotionless.

But doesn't mean like what some audience suggests that they should become emotionless and dead set on completing the mission without hesitation. Ryotaro's compassion and tender-heart, like him feeling guilt over here, is the one that makes for a true hero, as being heroic isn't only the cool stuff like destroying powerful beings that threaten innocent or putting their life at risk for others, but they do more than just (super)heroics. They are generally friendly and helpful towards strangers, even in little things that non-super characters can easily do. Little acts of kindness, you know, like what Ryotaro does in the Imagins' travel to the past that he makes an effort to put the contract holders in better place, something that other characters object at first due to flow of time.

Well of course, there's still 14 episodes left, Yuuto wouldn't just retire by being a secondary Rider after running out of cards. Something would happen, which for this one, Sakurai giving him second chance to continue fighting as Zeronos. And about Sakurai coming from the future, your complaint here is more about the set up of Sakurai as a concept from the beginning rather than the time travel aspect, which I discussed before, that can be confusing (like you questioning why there are no repairment from Imagin's rampage to the past to the buildings). I mean you did say that this episode is an ace to you, and you're someone invested in the character part, so no need to explain these mysteries that it can just be ignored for the characters part? Also, older Sakurai was expected to be played by Hibiki based on how current Yuuto is played by Kyosuke and that Sakurai's personality resembles Hibiki's more, but instead, the stand-in they put in the trenchcoat and hat is the same actor they bring back anytime adult Sakurai appears in the Den-O movies such as Episode Red, as Hibiki's actor not liking how the cast and Shigenori Takadera were treated, he swore never to return to the franchise once the show finished. It's tragic for Yuuto yeah when it's revealed that Yuuto's cards erase the memories of anyone he meets, every friend he ever had will never remember him, where Ryotaro is the only person who wasn't affected.

Really? Between Sakurai and Yuuto, it's the inverse of what you claim here about Sakurai being "gigantic asshole who keeps wrecking his own life". Sakurai being a concept aside, while this part hasn't been fully revealed yet, needs to remember about what Ryotaro said about how Sakurai treated him when comparing him to Yuuto. And, about dying a hero or living long enough to become horrible person part, that kind of person actually had a failure against trauma, as well as a poor way to cope with trauma, and don't justify or rationalize the living long enough to become horrible. The better, truly successful way to cope with overcome trauma is to face those trauma head on and grow to become a better person from it; and if teenage Yuuto can be a spiteful jerk, this would be a case for Sakurai then.

But pursuing Ryotaro's course of action is a gigantic waste of time? He needs to confront his feelings of inadequacy, not treat them as valid. The longer Kohana lets this go on, the further Ryotaro gets from feeling better. It's not tough love to stop enabling someone?

Yuuto was vaguely content with his obliterated future, and then Sakurai showed up and told him to Get In The Robot! It's a dick move! Deneb treats it like a death sentence! The entire climax of the episode is that Yuuto has doomed himself by accepting those cards! Sakurai is an asshole!!

I'm ashamed to say how long it took me to realise I was confusing the ToQGer plot and a Den-O plot that hasn't happend yet. Not ashamed enough to not type it of course, but still.

I can't believe they did this same plot on a ToQger episode! Small world.

Same writer!

I think. Same head writer anyway

According to Rangerwiki, that one was the third out of three written by Aikawa (head writer for Boukenger).

I can't speak for the quality of any of those episodes though, since they came after I quit.

Ha! Classic April Fools' humor from Die here, as he deliberately says the exact opposite of the truth for comedic effect. I know it's in poor taste to explain a joke, but just in case anyone makes the mistake of taking that post seriously there, rest assured that we're all familiar with the real rules laid down by the most iconic beige trenchcoat-wearing Kamen Rider character:

https://i.imgur.com/W9clhel.png
https://i.imgur.com/fmqV7bn.png

I mean, come on – a dude in a trenchcoat actually encouraging Riders to fight? Where do you even come up with gags this good, Die?

Anyway, we should probably get back to talking about more serious matters.

I'm so happy you're finally to the legendary midway Den-O retool! I haven't really mentioned it yet for fear of spoiling something, but yeah, this was a whole thing that happened, and honestly? This might be what makes Den-O my favorite Rider show by Kobayashi. She just laughs in the face of what happened to Hibiki here by effortlessly pivoting the show in this wild new direction while still staying so utterly true to what made it so good to begin with.

Particularly brilliant was the subtle jab of replacing Yuuto's actor – who was of course infamous for his role as the new Kamen Rider Hibiki – with Ryuusei Yokohama, another returning Rider alum, who previously played the much better character of That Guy Who Formed The Basis Of Meteor's Backstory in Fourze. Or, uh, do I mean he would go on to play that guy? Time sure can be confusing!

But still, this is definitely the part of the show where Yuuto hits his stride, and really becomes one of my favorites in the series. I know you don't like spoilers, but I just have to mention that there are some episodes coming up that involve him dressing up as a Sherlock Holmes-esque detective that I can't wait for you to get to. It's super endearing seeing Yuuto's more geeky side come to the surface, and Kobayashi really redefined him into this much more rounded character who even had some leadership potential, which is not something you would've expected a dozen episodes ago.

Again, the changes are big, for sure, but I think they were really all for the better. Like, that new Den-Liner, right? Way cooler, with the whole rainbow motif giving it a striking look, and even having it turn into a big robot to fight giant monsters. I mentioned before I wasn't a huge fan of the mecha action in Den-O, but that only applied to the stuff before the retool. Proper giant robot fights should be at the end of every tokusatsu episode by law, and it's baffling that it took so long for Kamen Rider to realize this.

It speaks to the confidence Kobayashi and the new staff had to realize these changes needed to be made. Kicking Shirakura out from the producer position was a deserved bit of karma, and Takaaki Utsunomiya was also the producer for Wizard, which is of course a beloved fan favorite, and I think that same energy really shines through here as well.

But you know, I'm kinda just rambling at this point, so I should probably call it quits until you get further into this new era for Den-O. I can really imagine you'll have a lot of fun with it!

(this was an excellent way to atone for your failure to make that dragon knight post by the way. kudos)

Who was Chalice even talking to in that scene? I'm not so great at remembering Blade stuff. Sorry!

Yeah, it's sort of bonkers how much the aesthetics change, but there wasn't a moment during that episode where I wasn't confident I was watching an episode of Kamen Rider Den-O. Much like Yuuto's confidence in his ability to reach Sakura, there's a clarity there that no amount of change can obscure.

And, like you were saying about Yuuto taking more of the lead now, how awesome is it that the Den-Obot has a huge drill as a weapon?! Super smart way to cue folks in that this show's going to be more about his journey than Ryotaro's.

I'm glad you ended up liking this new direction as much as I did! On the one hand, I'm thankful I didn't get spoiled on it. On the other hand, something this big happening without people bringing it up made me wonder if no one really cared about this era of Den-O? I'm glad I'm not the only one to be onboard with all these new developments. I don't know what's going to happen next, but like the Den-O theme song famously says, "Let's board the exciting train and find out!"

KAMEN RIDER DEN-O EPISODE 36 - "NO POSSESSION, NO SECESSION, TRAIN SLASH!"

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https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/deno/den36b1.png

First off, thank you as always for indulging my nonsense. Thank you for helping me pretend that the 36th episode of the Weird Train Kids Superhero Program, aka ToQger, was actually the 36th episode of Kamen Rider Den-O. There's little in this world I love more than committing to a ridiculous bit, so thank you for giving me a day to do that by playing along.

Second off, extra-special thanks to AkibaSilver for giving me the idea to do this. It was a year ago, when I was writing up Ryuki, where they said Hey You Should've Written Up A Dragon Knight Episode For April Fool's, and I was devastated that I didn't think to do that. Since then, I knew I'd need to do something for 2021, and April 1st was when I'd be watching Den-O, and I remembered the Weird Train Kids from that Gaim crossover, and here we are. Once they put the idea in my head, I couldn't just stand by and do nothing.

On that note, this episode of Den-O.

Like a lot of Den-O episodes that I find sort of uneven, there's a middle section to this one that I'm astonished by. As Ryotaro grapples with the existential nightmare that defines Yuuto's existence, he's never seemed more uncertain. Like his inability to handle his failure with Piano Man, he can't abide by Yuuto's decision to keep fighting as Zeronos, nor Sakurai's decision to set this all in motion. The idea that not only can he not save Sakurai's memory, but that Yuuto's every action makes that loss more permanent... it's too much for Ryotaro to bear.

There's a lot of weight put on Ryotaro in this one, emotionally, and the first half really drives it home. There's no victory for Ryotaro to fight for, nothing to defend. When Airi casually mentions selling the telescope in Milk Dipper, Ryotaro's aghast. He's at his most fractured, straining against causality to get Airi to remember Sakurai, to fight for his memory. But there's nothing left in Airi to do that. Ryotaro is grasping at sand that already slipped through his fingers.

The confidence in the show to do that, to not give the hero a way to fight back, it is exceptionally brave. It forces Ryotaro to stop looking for a way to save the day. Instead, it asks him to believe in the ability of others to save themselves.

Ryotaro... he definitely has a hard time practicing what he preaches. Yuuto's smart to throw Sakurai's words back at Ryotaro, to point out the hypocrisy of Ryotaro being willing to fight impossible odds because he can't stand by and do nothing, while forbidding Yuuto from making that same choice. Ryotaro has a difficult time letting go of his savior complex enough to trust that Yuuto knows what he's doing and why he's doing it. But Ryotaro can't save the day by himself. It's going to take other people, and he has to let them help in the ways they feel is right.

That leads into the Liner Form finale, and, I don't know. I never felt like the Ryotaro Needs To Get Stronger story needed a literal conclusion. It's way more interesting if it's a metaphor for Ryotaro needing to stop burdening himself and let everyone else help him shoulder the weight. For me, that story reaches its climax with Ryotaro handing Yuuto the Zeronos cards. Having a whole finish where Ryotaro gets a Den-O form and defeats the monster with a cool new roleplay weapon, the Speak-n-Slash, whatever. It's a superhero show, and that's the superhero finish.

It just struck me as both tonally incongruent (it's this big colorful rah-rah finish to an episode that kicks off with a disillusioned Ryotaro cursing the unfairness of the cosmos) and also weirdly diminishes Yuuto's argument that he's crucial to averting disaster (since Ryotaro gets an awesome new power-up that seals the victory). Across these two episodes, it's like the first five minutes and last five minutes are a story about Ryotaro needing to be a better fighter, while everything in the middle is a story about Ryotaro trusting in other people to take care of themselves. Those two themes... I don't think they work great in one story? There's some overlap, stuff about guilt and responsibility and faith and accepting help, but at the end of the day they feel like they're working at cross purposes.

It's a weird Den-O episode for me, in that I felt like Ryotaro's disillusionment and Yuuto's need to explain himself, that shit worked great. That was some top-shelf writing and acting. The fun elements of Den-O felt like a distraction this time, to the degree that I wanted to tell the show to, like, read the room. Usually I'm the other way around, where the dark costs of being a Rider feel like a waste of some really fun adventuring. Maybe those ToQger empty calories from earlier today had me appreciating more robust storytelling? Maybe!

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/deno/den36c1.png

THE BAGGAGE CAR

-JUST TELL YOUR STUPID "NEW TRAIN LINE" STORY ALREADY! GOD.

-Was not super thrilled that the reason why Den-O needed to use Liner Form instead of any of his normal forms was just Time Reasons, and here's a fun toy and new costume. I usually like the costumes and power-ups to feel narratively motivated, and this wasn't that to me. Felt not very necessary. It's just one more part of the series-arc that comes across as thinly established and uncompelling.

-Nothing in this series is ever as scary as Ryotaro getting upset with Airi, so I'm glad the show pulls that lever sparingly. There's a level of realness to it, that relationship, that makes the heightened melodrama of a Kamen Rider freak-out seem cruel. Still, unbelievably effective at communicating Ryotaro's fracturing mental state.

So the main association I have with this episode is, to bring up something we haven't discussed in awhile, TV-Nihon's translation. Like I mentioned when the thread started, one of the things TVN did with the show was leave things untranslated if they thought it sounded cooler in Japanese. That led to the debut of Ryotaro's ultimate attack with Liner Form being written as "Densha Giri" instead of "Train Slash." I don't think there was a translation note, either, which left me really confused about why everyone thought the name sucked.

The rest of the episode is fine, but outside of Liner Form's debut, it just feels like a continuation of the same concerns over Yuuto's powers that we've had for the last few episodes already. There are some nice moments, but it's not one that really stands out for me.

As for Liner Form... well, it's okay. I think it looks better than Climax Form, but I still don't love it. The most interesting thing about it is the fight it starts over which of those is meant to be Den-O's ultimate form.

Anyway, tomorrow's episode is one I've been looking forward to. No spoilers, but there's only one way to appropriately herald episode 37:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy3SjwtkE0E&t=2s

Your earlier post made me remember how amusingly similar Den-O and ToQger are! Also if there's any sentai you ever feel like tuning in just to get a taste of the franchise, well there are few that emobdy the spirit as unabashedly as the one about trains and imagination.

About the latest episode, I've always been just a little mixed to myself on how much I like Liner Form as a concept. Ryotaro gaining the power to fight on his own, with the Imagin's support rather than the other way around like before, certainly sounds like a natural thing to happen in the show eventually. But I feel like it takes away a little of made him special as a protagonist, that he was hero in spite of being unable to do cool superhero finishers on his own.

That said, all that is me just wondering if some other hypothetical approach would have worked better. As it is, its still a pretty triumphant moment, even if maybe it doesn't entirely fit to this specific episode like you said...

Honestly my biggest 'complaint' (more like nitpick) is that I wish Liner Form's head was different. I understand the idea but at a glance it's too similar to Sword Form. If you ask me, the 'eyes' should have been much rounder and more reminiscent of Plat Form.

Yeah, this is another debut I’m not super thrilled upon.

And I’d like to point out that, contrary to the usual “last form is always the most powerful in terms of near anything”, Liner Form’s only advantage over anything else Ryotaro has is jumping ability. Thank god his first opponents using it were the Mooks of the Imagin.

Always up for indulging one of the best Toku shows ever made! Glad you at least liked the episode and the suits?


Liner Form... not a debut as memorable as Climax’s to me, but still one I love a lot. Is the whole Time Shenanigans excuse a bit weak? Ehhh... maybe, but this was a good point in the series for Ryotarou to grow into his own, and with a character like this it’s perhaps the one time I’m happy to see a Final Form’s debut just be a mook fight! There’s such a wonderful energy to it all.

Oh, and now that we’ve gotten to it? I might as well say: I like that Climax is still important, because it’s not so much the mid-season super form as it is the imagins’ final form. Furthering that little thing about them practically being their own riders rather than simply form changes, I think it’s neat that separate final forms are given to them and Ryotarou through Climax and Liner. It’s really neat and cemented a love for them both in my mind!

I consider this show to basically have two final forms. Climax is the final form for the Imagin. It's them at their most powerful by doing the one thing that is against their character--working together.

Liner form, on the other hand, is the final form for Ryotaro. It's him doing the one thing that is against his character--fighting on his own and winning.

Anyhow, I don't quite agree about Liner forms debut. It could have been done a little better, but the show for a while has been building up the idea that Ryotaro's bond with the Imagin is fragile and temporary. It's falling apart and always has been. Both of these final forms are linked to the idea. First, he loses his bond with 3 of the Taros and only gains it back thanks to the one remaining one with Momotaros, but now even that is starting to fade away and they can't fight with him in the past any more.

I won't say more since the show itself will do so for me, but there's very much something at work here more than the show just making up time shenaniguns as an excuse. This continues the very plotline that introduced Climax form and seems to me to be a natural progression of that, albeit more clumsily explained than they could have done.

Very much all of this!! Well put :)

I guess I dug this part of Yuuto's story a little more because it's asking Ryotaro to change his perspective. While we get to see a little bit more of Yuuto's take on heroism, we also get a challenged Ryotaro altering his stance. It's a real shift for Ryotaro, and that makes it worthwhile to me.

oh no

Yeah, that's what bugged me the most about it. It's too literal for me. Kin makes a great point in Part 1 that Ryotaro's strength is in his sense of responsibility, in his empathy, in his desire to help people. And then in Part 2, the show's like That But Also He Has A Cool Sword And Detonates Monsters. I... no? No, thank you?

I absolutely love the Imagin-colored feathers around Liner Form's eyes. Favorite touch. The rest of it's halfway to a Drive suit, but I like Drive suits, so I'm okay with it.

Well, trains are known for jumping, so... uh.

Well...

Yeah, that was the thing that made me not mind Liner Form's debut being so close to Climax Form's. (There are other things I didn't like, but their proximity wasn't one of them.)

Climax's really about Momo, and about his ability to really be the Boss that everyone teases him about being. It's asking him to see some value in this various hangers-on, to view them as equal partners in Den-O's success. Climax doesn't require anything extra of Ryotaro.

Liner Form is about Ryotaro feeling like an active participant in Den-O. It's him trying to balance all of the guilt he feels when they fail with a chance to help them succeed. It's the flipside (to, I think, the episode's detriment) to Ryotaro letting go of his responsibility to stop/contain/negate Zeronos. It's Ryotaro driving the train of Den-O.

I just wish it weren't happening now! In this story! In this way!

I guess my criticism to the comparison with Climax Form is that Climax Form's Time Nonsense debut spun specifically out of events we just saw in the movie, while Liner Form's debut is tied to events that might occur in the future. Thematically, it's all one thing, but dramatically there's a completely different level of stakes. Climax Form is all established consequences, while Liner Form is almost literally Momo's fake excuse of "sometimes these things happen".

I don't know. It's not a total error for me or anything, but I find the introduction of Liner Form a little rushed, a little early in this particular plot.

Well, since it’s Rider’s 50th in Japan, I think I should make you aware of the new special starring Genm (which was conceived in the same way as the Kamen Rider Brain special from two years ago).

!!!!

I know what I'm watching during my break between Den-O and Kiva!

Ryotaro's feelings here is what makes a real hero in Den-O where he does more than just superheroics, shown in how Ryotaro helps the contract holders not as Den-O, but as Ryotaro (albeit the use of time travel is needed), and likely what inspires Hana (as she likely doesn't forget what she and Ryotaro has gone through). Kohana may shouldn't let this go on, but what's appropriate is to let Ryotaro keep this compassionate aspect of him live on.

Well, now I'm not certain who is right there, Deneb doesn't want Yuuto to become Zeronos, but Yuuto's main conflict throughout the whole series so far is him having limited aspect of Zeronos cards to use (it's the thing he ranted to Ryotaro). He reached the "failure" when he finally ran out of cards, but Sakurai solved that. It's unknown about Sakurai yet to judge him as an asshole other than his shady appearence.

Jokes aside...well... in Den-O, the stylistic differences compared to previous series, from the giant monsters, mecha-like trains and the vast amount of humor, made a portion of Rider fans feel the series was closer to a Sentai series. Some got past this initial feeling, while others claim that it ruined all Kamen Rider series since.

I was caught off guard by that description being actually april fools... as I've never seen how you operate in that date.

Well, this has happened before, but Ryotaro before was a cowardly type and usually shy, and his adventuers as Den-O with evergrowing friends have made him gain more self confidence and determination. He stands up to what he believed in when Yuuto was irritating him before. This is also a good showing of how being confident and assertive doesn't mean you have to gain negative traits for that, unlike, well, Tendou previously for being outright conceited. And for here, it's Ryotaro who seems to have more aggression by just picking Yuuto's Zeronos cards, in ways that not even Deneb did. If you think that Kintaros represents Ryotaro's exaggerated trait that turns into a flaw of him being a martyr without a cause, this part shows the exact opposite of this where Ryotaro doesn't approve of sacrificing methods and opts for another way to save the day and prevents Yuuto from fighting due to this. Ryotaro acts on Sakurai's words that being weak isn't excuse to not do anything, but doing something doesn't necessarily sacrificing yourself right? He approves when Yuuto doesn't plan to sacrifice himself.

Ryotaro's proof of being stronger, has been proven before by Kintaros struggling to possess him. I guess that's Ryotaro having self-esteem issues, when he doesn't realize that he's been stronger ages ago. I guess the story should've Ryotaro realize this? Ryotaro tries to develop himself to be stronger, but he doesn't need too actually. But this creates a battle problem that Ryotaro can't be possessed like usual and he's stuck in the, Rider-wise weak Plat Form. If you praise Kagami enduring himself as a team to save the day... lol... this is what Ryotaro does which is praised by Momotaros! Ryotaro can't be possessed anymore, and the other Taros Imagins have to cope about Ryotaro now being more independent from them, thus they have a solution of creating a new power for Ryotaro to use by himself, just like the Den-O belt and scanner which seems to come designed in DenLiner, for consistency. I think the conclusion is that for Ryotaro needs to become stronger, actually Ryotaro doesn't need to work on it, and that the Taros Imagins are the one to have to work onto this.

Liner Form is the final form of Den-O that isn't Imagin related, so Den-O has 2 final forms, Climax Form and Liner Form. And I think the reason of Den-O using Liner Form is about Ryotaro being strong instead of Time? That Imagins can't possess him as easily. Also, personally, Liner Form's sword design is my favorite, I'm into more bigger and bulkier swords (and it left an impression on Ryotaro struggling to lift it), and the finisher is also my favorite among Den-Os with the bigger flasiher part in the train accompanying him (and I hope the sword slash has the actual force of a freight train.

Well yeah, now Ryotaro works on to restore the memory of Airi. And by the efforts he needed to do it, it seems that Ryotaro can't be blamed for "keeping away" the memories from her as it's not just an immediate telling.

The thing is, Ryotaro is completely making himself into a martyr here. He's refusing to let Yuuto help as Zeronos, taking on the entire burden of stopping the Imagin by himself. He's totally fine making the decision to risk his own life, but won't let Yuuto make that same decision.

Maybe? It just feels like the point in the series where Ryotaro has to fend for himself more, graduating out of the Imagin fighting for him. It comes across as a little sudden to me, since so much of this story was built around Ryotaro respecting Yuuto's decision-making. It's a weird thread to tie into this one, but that's why it's there.

KAMEN RIDER DEN-O EPISODE 37 - "I BET MY FACE GIVES IT AWAY, DOESN'T IT?”

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/deno/den37a.png
https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/deno/den37b.png

So, Ryutaros.

If we're going to have an endgame kick-off that draws from characterization, Ryuta is the best character to focus on. He's the most unpredictable, the least stable. His connection with Ryotaro isn't a contract, a mutually agreed-upon spirit of cooperation. He snuck in, tried to destroy Ryotaro, but fell in love with the idea of family. He's part of the team, but the least-trusted member. His motivations are inherently selfish, inherently childish. If anyone's story is going to eventually doom the crew of the DenLiner, it's Ryuta.

(I mean, him or Ura. I wouldn't be shocked if a future story is some Imagin attacking the train and screaming HOW COULD YOU BREAK MY HEART at Urataros.)

The situation with Ryuta and Ryotaro and Airi and Yuuto, it's untenable. The show put a pin in it a while ago, when Ryotaro told Ryuta that he'd die before he let Ryuta kill Yuuto, but there wasn't a real sense of growth to Ryuta. Even here, he brushes off his reluctance to kill Ryotaro as him being bored with trying. Ryuta has become more integrated into the cast, and more charming for his coloring and excitability, but there's still this feeling like he can't be managed long-term. If he wants something bad enough, he's going to go after it.

A lot of this episode is just reminding the audience of that aspect of Ryuta. We haven't really seen this side since his early appearances, and most of his more recent uses have been as a kid brother to the other Imagin. Here, we're back in Loose Cannon mode for Ryuta, where he's hijacking Ryotaro's body, freaking out Airi, and threatening Yuuto. It's not so much an escalation of any of those things as it is an indication that this side of Ryuta never really left. It's interesting to see again, to know that the show isn't done talking about this plot, but it's not really a new take on any of it.

And then Kai shows up.

Den-Parado! I liked him. I always like happy villains, ones who are menacing because they're so upbeat, not in spite of it. They seem more powerful for how they don't take the heroes/society seriously, how it's some game they're playing on Easy Mode. (Sorry, he just reminds me so much of Parado!) Kai has that part down cold, as he's constantly wondering if his smiling means he's mad or not. He feels more inhuman than any threat the show has had before, with his absurd curiosity at how to be intimidating, or in his simultaneous vague disinterest and laser-like focus in getting Ruta to complete a task for him. He feels like the best possible Den-O villain: an exterior of humanity and an interior of unknowable malevolence, portrayed by spinning out emotions he doesn't care to understand.

His interactions with Ryuta were great, especially the dance-off. It's the perfect way to manipulate Ryuta at this point. He doesn't feel like the DenLiner crew are taking his emotional needs seriously (Momo 100% is tired of playing along with this kid's unrealistic obsession with Airi), and here's Den-Parado, meeting him on his level, speaking his language, playing his game. It's not about trying to control Ryuta, it's about using Ryuta's needs to manipulate him. It's trying to craft a Win-Win that the DenLiner crew can't seem to convince Ryuta of. Den-Parado is friendly without ever seeming like a friend, and I find that kind of villain addictive to watch.

This was the start of our push into the endgame, and as such it's only really about introducing a new major villain. With that goal, it's a huge success. Den-Parado gets me more psyched about escalating this show's threat level than anything else they've tried. (They haven't tried a lot!) Not even close to sure of where the story might be headed, but I'm glad it's got this much momentum. Really fun plot-via-character-driven episode.

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/deno/den37c.png

THE BAGGAGE CAR

-When this show needs to get melancholy, it knows how to get there fast. Having a sunset training session with Ryotaro and Momo, where it's fraught with this tension of impending dissolution (whether that's The New Train Line or just the metatextual The Show Is Ending In A Few Months), it's unbelievably bittersweet. It feels like a goodbye, almost. Momo's making sure Ryotaro can keep being Den-O, even if he's not around to see it. More than any villain intro or new setting, this scene is the announcement that we are entering our final batch of stories for Kamen Rider Den-O.

-Speaking of new settings! We don't see a lot of the Train Stop (???), but its very existence feels compelling, simply because it's a tactile new thing the show can have its characters interact with. There's a frustrating amount of nebulous worldbuilding in this series, so I will absolutely applaud the series for showing a new thing and in the same episode saying Let's Go To There. Yes! I am okay with the odd bit of immediate gratification, rather than five straight episodes of cryptic comments from Owner! It's a pleasant change of pace!

Well, it's no problem, really; ToQger's just such a grea—

っておい！

Well, putting that to one side for now, I don't think I have too much to add about Liner Form and episode 36 that hasn't been said by someone else already. Mainly that, following on from the Ghost comparisons with Climax Form's debut, it occurs to me that what Grateful and Mugen each symbolize in terms of the characters has a lot of parallels to Climax and Liner... which certainly accounts for Liner Form being one of my all-time favorite final forms.

The design has grown on me a ton over time (always loved the feather eyes and sword; the relatively understated body was an acquired taste), but, much like with Ghost, it's all about what it's doing narratively that makes me so attached to it.

(Okay, well in Mugen's case, it's both at once, which is why nothing will ever top it, but you get the idea.)

It's hard to say how much I really agree or disagree with your assessment of the episode, though. As evidenced by this...

...it's very much a case where I think it makes more sense in the grander context of the show's narrative than as a standalone story, the way Climax Form's did so well. And since it's rooted so deeply in Den-O's very particular style of telling an overarching story – that we've established I really like and that you take issue with – there's probably not much sense in trying to argue that further right now. I rewatched this one on a whim after reading your post, and what I'd most like to say about it is actually just that Takeru Satoh is really freakin' good at playing Ryoutarou?

And, uh, speaking of the overarching plot and extremely talented actors with careers that went places after the show! How about that Kai? Don't think I can put my opinion on him any better than I did here:

I'll leave the detailed actor trivia to someone else, though, and instead point out that 37/38 are more Tasaki episodes, which explains why I remember them looking so pretty.

I think this comment gets at some of the disconnect this thread'll have with people who've already watched Den-O: I don't know how this all fits together yet.

For a lot of these series-long plots, not specifically Den-O, it's easy to see in retrospect where little bits of character development start, or how a relationship pivot will payoff down the line. For me, I don't have that full picture yet. I can't say how each piece of the puzzle fits together narratively; I can only judge the quality of each piece.

(cut an entire series of paragraphs about watching individual episodes versus bingeing that felt irrelevant to the discussion)

So, yeah, there's a lot to Kobayashi's plotting here that rewards patience, and I'm finding the rewards for that patience to be not as generous as what's being asked of me. If there was a little more attention paid to the episodic increments of storytelling, rather than the current It'll All Make Sense In The End deferral, I think I'd be more kind to the pacing.

Liner form is a favorite form of mine from a design perspective. While I don't remember a lot about den-o but I remember someone (maybe Fish?) saying something along the lines of why Liner form is great from thematic perspective. It's that it represents Ryotaro going into battle on his own but with his friends still there with him. I think another thing about it that might be more inline with Die's analysis of Ryotaro is that liner form is Ryotaro accepting every part of himself while still being a himself. Climax is a bunch of friends working together, but Liner might pull more on the metaphor of the imagin as aspects of Ryotaro. He's pulling on the different aspects he's hidden away to be strong. or something like that. I don't know I haven't watched den-o in years, and also have very little ability to analyze tv.

Yeah, Liner Form and Ryotaro's development into a more fully-formed hero... it's definitely something that needs to happen as the series nears its completion. Ryotaro Gets Better As A Person is, like, the bare minimum expectation for a year-long Den-O series. The best way to illustrate that is him not needing the training wheels of being possessed by an Imagin. Him being his own Kamen Rider is the show's proof of concept.

It's just, it's weird how sort of out of nowhere it happens? The more the show leans into the Imagin trying to prepare Ryotaro for their absence, the smarter Liner Form looks and feels. The problem is, all of that emotional content occurs after Liner Form debuts. Climax is the show having a problem, and then creating a tool to solve it. Liner is the show introducing a tool, and then searching for a problem for it to solve.

Oooooh, okay that makes sense. For some reason I thought the episode where liner debuted was about Ryutaro having to stop being a rider due to strain on his body and then trying to fight in platform then getting liner. Also I like the liner henshin.

Nope, you've got the right episode! It's less about the strain on his body (that was an earlier story with a wacky ending), and more about... some upcoming Time Nonsense thing? In Liner's debut episode, the Imagin are unable to possess Ryotaro in the past, mid-fight, so they create the Liner sword so he can fight back.

I've just been finding the idea of Liner stronger as the story goes on, as it starts to focus more and more on the Imagin basically preparing for their deaths? There's a winding down to the Imagin, post-Liner, that makes Liner seem a lot more integral than when it debuted. I can 100% see myself loving the themes of Liner by the time the series is over; I don't think the debut episode works as well in isolation.

We all knew him as Kai during the show's airing but nowadays Hideo Ishiguro who plays Kai is more revered as the 50th anniversary giant of light.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XirMfCghQLo

Someday I'm going to appreciate one of these non-Kamen Rider shows, I promise.

I really really need to do this too, but also I lack energy to watch even Kamen Rider for some reason.