MASKED RIDER RYUKI EPISODE 49

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ryuki/ryuki49a.png

Oof.

Oooooooffffff.

Man. Scale of 1 to 10, how wrecked do you think kids were after seeing this episode when it aired? 10? 10,000?

Just a brutal episode of Ryuki, both on an emotional level (Shinji! Yui!) and on an incoherent-premise level (Shiro! Also Yui!). It's collectively probably my favorite and least favorite Ryuki episode.

Just to get it out of the way, oh my god did they shit the bed with the Mirror World explanation. Not only does the explanation make zero sense (a Mirror Yui came out to take the place of the dead real Yui who will arbitrarily die at age 20 oh and also the house exploded and I guess their parents left them to die????), it's a scene that, for me, mostly doesn't work dramatically. Shiro's great at telling people to Fight, he's decent at telling people to die, but WOW is he unable to match Yui's performance in that death scene. It's hammy, unconvincing acting. He's got no connection in the scene, there's no honesty to his performance...he, like, can't figure out what to do with his hands. It's a total disaster of a scene for me. I can't, for a second, get on board with whatever horseshit they've cobbled together to try and salvage a year-long plot that started at A Mirror Ghost Will Grant You A Wish If You Fight Well and somehow got less intelligible as it progressed, but even the emotional core of it felt hollow and forced. It's nice that Yui got to die on her own terms, and that actor sold the hell out of that choice, but that's the only compliment I can pay this part of the series. I never loved this storyline, and, Christ, the end of it? F-.

(Also, so, is the amount of Riders necessary for the final battle as handwaved as the rest of this premise? We're consistently told that Riders Can't Quit, that they have to fight until there's one left, but, like, it doesn't matter that Asakura and Kitaoka aren't fighting? Kitaoka got to bail last episode, "withdraw”, like that was ever an option offered to literally any other character, but Asakura? He would definitely want to fight! He has not conceded! Just, why even have rules if Shiro's just making them all up.)

The rest, though, holy shit, A+.

There's a funereal feel to this episode, a pall over the proceedings. Mostly in silence, Shinji and Ren have barely begun to process Yui's death before Shiro declares that the Rider Battles will continue. And then, it's just, oh. There's no end to this. It's just misery until we die. There are no options, no one can be saved.

It's more of that as the episode progresses. Kitaoka's out of the hospital, but clearly without much time left. Asakura is going to be killed by the police at dawn. And Shinji's at Ore Journal, confessing his secrets and adrift in confusion. Nothing he does seems to matter, and he doesn't know what he should even fight for at this point.

That scene in Ore Journal, with Shinji and Okubo... I don't assume it's most people's favorite scene from the episode. The final scene, it's a killer. (Too soon?) I couldn't blame anyone who cited it as an all-time fave. This Ore Journal one, though. Man. Maybe my favorite dramatic scene in this show.

Okubo's been a secret weapon on this show, maybe. There's the wacky hijinks and awkward comedy and whatnot, but there's a sense that he gets it. He gets people, and he gets how to help them. Shinji's torn up by indecision, and Okubo lets him know that there's nothing wrong with questioning yourself. That for Shinji, a character who leapt to conclusions like they were rampaging monsters, it's good to examine your motivations, to wonder if you're doing the right thing. But if you can believe in yourself, trust in yourself, you'll do the right thing. It's a journalist saying, Hey, we don't always know what the right thing to do is, but asking that question is the start of getting an answer we can live with.

And at that moment, as Shinji's getting a little guidance from a friend, it gets brighter in the room. The sun comes up. The darkness recedes. A hero who lost his way starts to see a future.

It's a beautifully shot scene, and it's probably the scene I'll remember most from these 49 episodes of Ryuki.

I mean, that or Shinji dying. It's a toss up.

So, yeah! Shinji dies!

I was wondering what was going to come from those blue bug guys (mosquitos?), and the answer is City-Wide Rampage. Agito went pretty low-key (relatively!) with its finale, so it's nice to get back in the Kuuga vein of monsters everywhere, screaming civilians, and horrifically outmatched heroes. Shinji's skewered right out of the gate, before he can even Henshin, as he saves a little girl. It's a perfect capper to that Ore Journal scene, putting those lessons into practice. Shinji's not a... you know, a big picture guy. Plans, process, it's not exactly his specialty. The moment, jumping in and helping someone who's scared, that's where he lives. Doing that, saving a child from Shiro's madness and the rampaging monsters he commands, it's when Shinji knows what he'd wish for. An end to all of it, the pain and violence. An end to Mirror World. He wants to stop it, even if that means Eri can't be saved or Kitaoka can't live forever. (UNACCEPTABLE.) Keeping all these other people safe, it's something that's worth fighting for.

Except he can't, because he just died.

It's all up to Ren now.

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ryuki/ryuki49b.png

And, it's a small thing in the episode, but I love that Reiko figured everything out herself. Mirror World, Shiro, Kamen Riders... she just figured it out. No one had to tell her. She just spent a year chasing down leads, interviewing subjects, having occasional eye injuries, and doing research. That's it. And she got it all.

For a show that had a female lead who never felt in control of her own story, it's awesome that Reiko never for a minute ceded control of hers. From episode 1 she was going to get to the truth behind the mysterious disappearances, and by episode 49 she had.

I really, really love that.

As someone who watched this show on TV dubbed as a kid, I can confirm it did wreck me with a score of 10000. I also decided to re-watch the episode a moment ago and guess what, I teared up! The context of it all came rushing back to me, combined with Shinji and Ren's performances just destroyed me on the spot in the best way.

Before I got to this point, I figured the only way the show would end is with Shinji and Ren beating Odin and stopping the Mirror World for good, which I still think would have been a perfectly satisfying conclusion. Now that that's out of the window, it feels like you go into the last episode with a sense of doom about everyone's fate.

Your words about it feeling like a funeral is really apt, because it's like all the remaining characters and the viewers can only walk resignedly into whatever final fate awaits them.

Yeah, if I had to name this color of storytelling, it'd be Grim Resignation. Everyone's just, like, plodding forward. There's no music, very little light... it's a dark episode, literally and figuratively.

Even Kitoka, whose storyline is that his death is imminent, somehow finds an even sadder fate, doing the most Kamen Rider thing he'll maybe ever do by blowing off his lunch date with Reiko to enter a final conflict with his nemesis. This episode is just packed, scene by scene, with depressing outcomes.

But, yeah, that death scene for Shinji. It's shot a little weird (the camera keeps floating up and down, sometimes missing some of the person who's talking), but I love that they just gave Shinji space to have a whole speech. They really draw it out, and of course they should do that. It's a real series highlight.

It got me thinking. Ryuki has maybe the most main character death scenes, or it's at least in the top 5, but are they also the best? Some real corkers in this series: Tezuka, Imperer, Toujou, Professor, Angry Man, Yui, goddamn Scissors... I don't even know if I got them all! There're a lot! And they're pretty great!

> Main Character
> Scissors

Please choose one.

I ain't gonna count it up, but I would guarantee you that Scissors has more Posts Per Appearance on this thread than probably anyone other than Ren and Shinji. Folks got feelings about Scissors!

Jokes aside, what do you mean by this?

Yeah, during the time you complained about episode 25 before where it's bad writing for Shiro not wanting to stop the war to cheer Yui up.... it's in character. Shiro originally has a sympathetic motivation, but to achieve it, he has gone too far from the sympathetic title, devolving into a totally selfish horrible villain, who is completely uncaring to anyone other than Yui, including herself even, not taking into account Yui's needs and wants. At least he's also clearly pained to lock her up. And this is even more evil than Shiro in ep. 27 where he presents himself as having god/devil complex and threatens even her?

Dunno man but here Ren's just implementing the exact same mindset about Yui as in to Eri, being selfishly biased to his loved ones. He wants Yui to live because he's close to her and he loses nothing (does this also make him a tamer version of Shiro?). He doesn't really care (though he'll try to save people who's abducted by Mirror Monsters) about the dying innocents as long as he gets what he wants, which is him together with his loved ones being safe, contrasting both of his friends Shinji and Yui who are both devastated of all the bodycounts the war, either from Riders or monsters (Yui also remarks about her hating many other people killed, or getting their lives ruined, apart from her friends fighting), and selflessly insist to take all the burdens for themselves for the sake of the others. The "decision" Shinji talks is not about how Yui should get to decide the reasonable cost for her life, it's about letting her choose to live or die (committing suicide) herself. And no, no amount of costs for her life (if it's regarding other living beings) is reasonable for her. Earlier she also begs Shiro to not hurt any innocents (not just her friends) and doesn't want to see anyone hurting each other (like... fighting). It truly is all-encompassing for her, your opinion otherwise for the Rider War, which just helps for Shinji to connect to her. Shinji tries to help, but probably not necessarily in the way of preserving her life but making sure she's comforted (as a standard human decency like to Eri by being on her side even if it doesn't help), like in the next episode Shinji also fully accepts there are no reasonable costs for her, with him just using Yui as an excuse to convince Shiro stopping the war.

Kitaoka doesn't only cut him off, he's the one actually saying it himself Shinji's an idiot but a great person, not Ren (though he's going to... in contrast to ep. 42 where he agrees to everything Kitaoka thinks about him). He also tries to hide his illness even if it potentially wins him Reiko (and its futile anyway if you're going to die, leaving Reiko alone again). Well sure Ren also grows as people, but his wish never changes, but it also gives him more of a hard time to handle with the war, because now, other than his killing, he cares for more than 1 person, which is also a point where Shiro tortures Ren with, forcing him to choose between his friends or Eri. For Kitaoka, he's the one to actually retire and stop fighting, if only because he realizes that, he already has an awesome life that is worth living (obviously! if you're rich and famous), though obviously Goro plays the most part in that. Goro wishes for Kitaoka to be happy, not for him to win the Rider War... so it's baffling for him to do morally questionable things in ep. 14, when he's not against him winning the war and stands up for him to a lesser thing (taking care of Megumi).

During a battle between Odin and Survives... there's a funny moment. Ryuki trying to steal Odin's shield with Strange Vent that transforms into Steal Vent, only for Odin to also use Steal Vent himself and get his shield back. Probably also symbolizes the series itself about where it feels like there's a huge change has occurred and the show has to evolve, but then things slide back, regress. Also it seems that Strange Vent's mechanic is explained by internet as not truly random, but turning into the next card opponent would use (I wonder how it'll work when fighting many Riders at once though). I wouldn't think Ren changes his mind though regarding the war, he isn't against Yui staying alive, which is Shiro's goal. Also 2 Survives are still not enough to take on Odin (besides blindsided by Knight Survive's Shoot Vent). And now Ouja reveals his wish for the war, to have an eternal Rider War... plunging the entire world into chaos, making him an even bigger threat if he wins with the wish.

I know this is that part, but you have to hear me out regarding this, for the sake of the series. I wanted to talk about this before, but obviously can't because spoilers. Even if you have a problem in this part, it's necessary to keep Kamen Rider Ryuki going, necessary to take this long to figure this out. It's likely that, the wish also has limits (regarding the main series part, not the side medias) that it cannot revive the dead, which is likely why Ren and Shiro not opting to "revive" as their wish. But either way, wordplay is important regarding this. Ren constantly remarks about Eri not having time left and he has to finish his fight quickly, because his wish is to cure her, not revive her, making it a personal time limit for Ren.

Same for Shiro, his wish is to extend Yui's existing life with a new life created from the wish, not reviving her, which is why he gives time limit for the war, the time limit is Yui's birthday, her death (though at ep. 49, she disintegrates before her birthday, so Shiro thinks there's still time to save her). If Yui dies (there's also him against Alternatives and likely keeping Shinji and Ren around to protect her from those), Shiro cannot use the wish on her to extend her life as she's already dead, and he needs other Riders dying to fulfill that wish, so he persuades them to more actively fight so they all die quicker before Yui dies. Riders are also all, at the end, just pawns to Shiro to gain his own wish (In TVTropes, Asakura is the god of "Big Bad Wannabe" for Pantheons!) with his own last standing Rider Odin. If he truly can save Yui regardless of her condition like reviving her dead self, Shiro wouldn't need time limit at all, or ensuring her staying alive between the Riders.

If this part of series is already figured out completely (not vaguely like "Shiro's doing all of this for the sake of Yui"; doing what? and what benefit he would give for her?) by everyone back at much earlier part of the series, the series will be all about Yui's repeated attempt to commit suicide (done much earlier than this episode), so that Shiro's wish won't work on her, while also telling Shiro she rejected it. Where Shiro's plan is foiled, he cannot save the now-dead Yui, giving him no reason to continue the war with a wish out of his reach, ending Ryuki very quickly. After that, either that Shiro hears her, relents and stop, or not and rewinds time to start the war again (and it also depends on how long it takes to figure this out quickly in his next takes of the war that it ends just as quickly, or lasting as long as this series). I guess she'll quickly die that way being a normal human physically-wise. And even if Shiro locks her up to prevent that like here, history will repeat with their parents locking them up, she also dies by being sick or starving like her as a child.

So the conclusion is, the truth regarding Mirror World, it's not only the "ON button" (Yui eventually dying due to abusive parents and getting only a short second living chance spurs Shiro creating 13 Decks and utilize the monsters to start a Rider War and win the game/wish himself to save her) for the series, it's also an instant "OFF button" (Yui eventually dying due to abusive parents and getting only a short second living chance lets her fully know about Shiro's true nature of his plan to reject his attempt, and if he doesn't hear, there's committing suicide as a solution for the war) for the series. So it has to be unknown for a long time to let the series run for this long to tell enough stories. I know this is talking about the moment happening in this episode, but like, if everyone figures it out at ep. 12, Yui will pull this exact stunt at ep. 12, ending Ryuki at 12 episodes (or a bit more if Shiro locks her up but won't extend it very far like likely 15 episodes or something), for example.

Yeah speaking of that I'm not sure this was brought back when Scissors was in the show. But during Zi-O run they ran 2 polls to select 5 Riders/Forms to make into DX Ridewatches(the gimmicl of Zi-O) that haven't been made yet.(So in total 10 would be made) And it was insane literally every form and Rider was fair game so long as it wasn't one they had been made yet, (unfortunatly no Showa alloowed cuz Zi-O was celebrating Heisei )or wasn't in the show or movies you can vote for it. Guess what Scissors made it to the 10 and got made. And it was amazing

One of my biggest problems with Yui's story is how little agency she has in it. It's mostly people (Shinji, Ren, Shiro, Auntie, Tezuka) deciding things for her, discussing her fate amongst themselves. It's a great moment for the show to finally consider what Yui wants in a serious, actionable way.

I guess? It feels like it's less about choosing life or death to me, and more about Yui gaining control over her existence. To not be a pawn or a prize, but to decide her own fate. Even if that fate is to disappear, at least she got to decide it. Ren has a typically Ren outlook of Alive Or Dead, like those are the only two ways of describing a human being, but Shinji's looking for more nuance, the sense of a life being about happiness and purpose. I don't know, it felt more introspective to me.

I mean, that's just character growth, though. I'd hope that characters would make some different choices 30-some episodes later!

Sorry, I could've phrased that better. It's that Ren changes his mind about what to do next, how he goes to fight Shiro alongside Shinji. He definitely hasn't changed his mind about the Rider Battles, but he's willing to follow Shinji's path in saving Yui.

That is a very impassioned defense of the series. I think it's awesome that you feel so strongly about what they've put out.

For me, though, I think they had other options? Like, everything about how the series needed its mystery to stay obscured until late in the series or the heroes would've circumvented it... I'd hope the writers would've had other ideas? I don't want to game out how I'd've written Ryuki or anything, but there've got to be ways to create obstacles for the heroes. That's what writers do! As a job! These things are only problems in the story because of how the story was written, so maybe they could've written something without those problems?

Like, and this is something I'll talk about at greater length when the series is over, maybe, but the weird inconsistencies and vagaries, that's something someone decided to put in this story! If it's a bad solution to a problem, but any other solution would be worse, maybe write a different problem?

If I'm building a house, and I don't have the glass to fill a window, I've got a few options. Maybe don't put a window there. Maybe move the glass from a different window, and don't build that other window. Maybe board it up until I can get the glass. But if I decide to shove a refrigerator in the opening, I don't get to shrug and say, "Well, that refrigerator is keeping the gap sealed. What, was I supposed to just leave a huge hole in my wall?" There's a point at which these things stop being unavoidable and start being poor choices.

Hey, I have feelings about my boy Knuckle, that doesn't make him a main character!

Ha ha, amazing!

HE GOT HIS OWN MOVIE.

There's the power of "being popular" these days. You don't see Scissors getting his own movie, do ya? Check and mate.

Although Scissors did get that Ridewatch made purely by meme power alone, so that might count for something.

An actionable way that will singlehandedly end Ryuki. This happens at the end of Ryuki, but if the truth is known much earlier she would likely also do this, and only repeated attempts of this if it fails, but overall it'll be very easy for her to die this way quickly ending the series. I can't think of other things she can do, because I can't think other ways to actually stop the war (which is her goal like Shinji and Tezuka) other than this, which requires the infos from backstories, which is taking away the reason for Shiro to continue the war by force (with 2 options; her rejecting the attempt and/or prematurely dying so the wish cannot work).

I'm (just) currently taking for what's already established in the series. And it's not a defense that I'm explaining the wrong part about that, which means it's a fact; like explaining to someone who thinks it's stupid for Eiji not to spam PuToTyra unlike Kiva Emperor as it's the strongest form, and explaining PuToTyra is a risky form to use. (I'm hurriedly talking about this because I try to correct before it got worse for you to the point of denying any explanations just to avoid that topic).

But it's ok if you're gonna talk about this on a greater length after the series is over, because I thought you'll leave the series for good after finishing it. I'd like to see the presumed other choices, because I'm also confused myself about the other takes based on the show's hopeless premise. And sometimes this discussion about different takes they wish can significantly diverge from the series' setting (even ignoring pre-established something there) which IMO would turn into different series.

Yeah coming from Shinji... the only person who is not a pawn for Shiro in the war (only briefly before to save Yui). Every single person related to the Rider War are pawns to Shiro. While Shinji is the only Rider besides Tezuka who refuses to play Kanzaki's game, and wants to stop the fighting and protect even his enemies (but Tezuka entrusts this destiny to Shinji). The Rider War is hopeless for everyone, where even after previously, Odin was distracted by Yui's scream (to see his sister complex to be his downfall...) and got Final Vented, he still insists Ren to fight Odin at the end. The fact is, no one will ever win the Rider War except Shiro, Odin is much stronger than everyone else, and even if you're lucky enough that he's distracted to kill him, he could just replace him with someone else. Not even Asakura, for he was the god of "Big Bad Wannabe" in TVTropes Pantheon, still largely Shiro's pawn.

A̶n̶d̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶i̶r̶s̶t̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶c̶e̶ ̶S̶h̶i̶n̶j̶i̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶a̶g̶r̶e̶e̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶Y̶u̶i̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶,̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶b̶o̶t̶h̶ ̶w̶a̶n̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶R̶i̶d̶e̶r̶ ̶W̶a̶r̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶e̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶t̶e̶c̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶n̶o̶c̶e̶n̶t̶s̶,̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶a̶c̶t̶ ̶b̶e̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶l̶y̶ ̶a̶ ̶d̶e̶f̶i̶n̶i̶t̶e̶ ̶w̶a̶y̶.̶ And he does in ep. 49, though also for Shiro being unhappy.

Not trying to make you change, but want to correct some. Their parents are simply horrible people (which is harshly.. realistic), what do you expect from abusive parents? They are obviously going to leave them to die, if they are cold and uncaring enough to lock them up in the attic permanently, and Shiro's pleas (about Yui being sick and dying)? Just ignored and lock them again, likely because they thought it was just their whining daughter and snivelling son going on again. Also actually it was their parents who were killed by that explosion (and also freeing them from the room they locked them into), which is caused by the first mirror-breach of Mirror Yui entering real world. Also why there are Mirror version of Kanzaki siblings? Because Yui and Shiro also draw themselves... like them drawing the monsters. Mirror version of Yui and Shiro exists the same way as all the Mirror/Contract Monsters do, and like humans in Mirror World, Mirror World humans also can only exist for so long in real world which is why she'll die at age 20.

Well, anyway, this scene is meant to tease the real way to stop the Mirror Monsters threatening humans, brought by Yui at the time of her disintegration, about the pictures. What differentiates Yui's performance here, compared to when she was "on the verge of tears" before? Also regarding "just misery until we die", nope, Shiro went under complete breakdown now, Yui disintegrates before her birthday, means he thinks she can still be saved, but he has completely lost it as the time left for her birthday is very short now, losing the echo on his voice. Probably intentionally made as it's "unconvincing" as he has gone insane. Shiro talking about there are no times left at the end of the episode? The time is exactly Yui's birthday at 19th Jan, the last day for his chance.

Literally episodes ago Toujou dies not in Rider battle but by a truck accident... And do you forget that Kitaoka is... incurable without winning the war? Kitaoka will also soon die, and like Toujou, Riders don't need to die via Rider battles, or them dying in Rider forms. Shiro only wants those Riders to die, and Kitaoka will also soon get that fate. Where do you get that Asakura conceded in the first place? OK, probably I have to explain the wish, the best one I can find, from the TVTropes page, and the reason why Shiro really wants the Riders to die (also, "Riders Can't Quit" is only to make sure any Riders that fight in his game dies, either by getting killed by other Riders or eaten by Contract Monsters)

The wish is created from the lives of 12 Kamen Riders (yeah, like collecting all the Dragon Balls, or in KR Ghost; collecting Eyecons, here you collect the lives of 12 Riders for the wish). That is why the Rider War exists, and why Shiro needs the other 12 people to fight and die. Everything that Shirou creates - all of the powers and magical abilities - is a phantom that only exists in (or in connection to) the Mirror World. To create a true "wish", he needs 12 people to die as Kamen Riders.

Finally Shinji also learns about Kitaoka's condition, from Shimada, and obviously, now it's all clear to Shinji, who sees the best in people, that it makes sense for Kitaoka to fight and become immortal, to save himself. Also it's official, Kitaoka has gained an important lesson, that is, his life's already been good enough, so now he only wants to fight as a Rider to settle things with Asakura, before finally dating Reiko, because he's also partially responsible of Asakura becoming a Rider (definitely when Shiro restarts the war at ep. 28). And good, now polices will show no mercy to Asakura. And no, what Shinji does will finally matter, the Mirror World stuff is connected to how Shinji's doing is relevant. No one, not even Shinji himself realize it.

Well yeah, all the time Shinji's not telling this stuff to Okubo, because he thinks Okubo would get mad... why would you think that? You are supposed to be a shortcut to what ORE's been looking, oh, and also Kagawa's notes. Ironically below you say that plans, process, it's not Shinji's specialty, but Okubo encourages him to be like that because he praises him to actually start thinking here. How do they finally

Yeah, the main character dies. This is actually the (quite petty) reason why people think Ren is the main protagonist, because Shinji dies and Ren is the one to face Odin. Also, even Shinji has a death by irony; All the other Riders berated Shinji for not having any desire, and Ren mockingly told him that he would die without finding one and that he didn't deserve to be a Rider. Somehow, Shinji survived long enough to become one of the last five Riders... And died after finally finding his desire to close the Mirror World. Even at the end, after all his character journey, his wish comes full circle, and you accept that? Though to be fair you get the difference (well, me too), now he has to make sacrifices like hurting other people by denying their wish, even if at first glance, it sounds like a dramatic rephrasing of "I want to stop the Rider War".

Other than that, how strong are the individual Raydragoons (the name of the monsters)? Seems like what they got is numbers (of course humans are still powerless to it), where even critically injured Shinji still wins the fight with them. Oh, no, not just that. Right after they stabbed Shinji, he easily swats away the monsters from him. He can't pose anymore for his base Ryuki Final Vent... just instantly kick.

I would like to know... that here she can get the Shiro's documents at the first place... Shiro didn't sic monsters on that person unlike what he did to the professor before? (except when she does naughty thing and just stole it). This is also related to ORE Journal which keeps following dead topics like this. Her question to Shinji being a Rider is confused and distant as if Shinji's a new person to her. Also (sorry) there's bookends:
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...426&height=475

I mean, that's one thing that could occur, sure. Or the writers could come up with some reason why she doesn't keep throwing herself off of a building for 40 straight episodes? I think they could manage that.

Like, and maybe this is going to come down to Agree To Disagree, I'm not really arguing the internal logic of some of the show. (at least, not this part right this second.) I'm arguing that I found it creatively unfulfilling.

Current plan is the final episode and the movie-or-whatever in the next day or two, then a series retrospective, then a little postscript. All done by the weekend, probably.

Honest to god, I don't have any. I don't process stories that way. I can only tell you what did or didn't work for me., or where I thought a story might be headed. It's way above my paygrade (in that my paygrade for this is nothing) to try and fix Kamen Rider stories, especially ones that came out 17 years ago. That sort of fan fic correcting, it's completely not my thing.

I'm not sure if I'd describe anything going on with Yui and Shiro's backstory as "simple". Maybe "cartoonish"? The level of evil from the parents is beyond ludicrous to me. Are they just torturing these children? That seems like a way bigger story element that this show built it up to be, not least of which because Yui And Shiro's Childhood is sort-of a moving target on this show. These kids were clearly sent to school, dressed, fed, but also neglected and imprisoned? They took family trips to the beach that Yui clings to and retreats to, but also that was all a lie they told themselves? They had family that took them in, but also family that was okay splitting up two horrifically abused children? Like, the abused backstory is.. it is incredibly problematic to use in such an offhand way. That is fraught thematic material and using it to paper over gaps in backstory is... I would not recommend it!

But why does any of that stuff work that way? A show, even a Kamen Rider show, can't just say stuff like that and move on. These two kids just drew a magic world of monsters and duplicates into existence? How? Are they magic? Is the mirror magic? Is the mansion magic? Did the Mirror World exist before they found it? Why was there only a duplicate of Yui? Why did the duplicate forget she was a duplicate? These things, they're so random at such a late stage that they're more distracting to me than they are insightful. It's like if I had an ice cream cone, and you asked me where I got it, and I said, "Oh, I got it as a prize from a trio of mermaids for demolishing an entire building with one punch." Like, I answered your question, but you are probably going to have so many more questions now.

This was a good time for her to cry! It is okay to cry when you are evaporating! Free pass!

Also, I just felt for her then. A death scene's tough, especially a special effect-y death scene like hers. It's tough to get to that primal emotion, and I thought the actor really delivered. Super subjective, but I thought the performance was aces.

I was mostly talking about the hero Riders, specifically Ren and Shinji. I, uh, I wasn't super into caring about how Shiro felt at that point. He's a monster, and I couldn't muster much sympathy for him then. (And I thought the actor botched his part of the Yui death scene, so double eff that dude.)

I don't remember Shiro handing out sick days before! Kitaoka's been dying this entire time (and been hospitalized before!) and there was never an indication that his participation was optional. And, yeah, Shiro needs them to die before he can end the Rider Battles, but neither Asakura nor Kitaoka are actually dead by the time Shiro declares Ren the final competitor. Even when Kitaoka was definitely still alive in the previous episode, Shiro was just like Three Is Enough. If the number doesn't even seem to matter, why have so many competitors chewing up the clock?

That's a neat take, but I don't recall a word of that actually being stated in an episode of Masked Rider Ryuki. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's nothing that's been on this show, so I can't really speak to it. I certainly don't feel like it's irrefutable proof of anything.

The bug guys, it seems like they're mostly just Strength In Numbers, plus an early edge from jumping Shinji. We'd already seen Asakura take on a legion of them solo, so it's not like they're super tough. I like that better, thematically. This is an episode all about an unstoppable wave of loss, about an unavoidable fate. That's better represented by a ceaseless onslaught of foes than one unbeatable bad-ass.

Now that we're so close to the end, I must ask you, Die... Which Rider would you most want to transform into? I purely mean when it comes to their suit, weapons and monster, not anything about their actual lives. (Imagine becoming Ouja and needing to drink eggs out of a glass.) Odin not counted but I assumed you wouldn't pick him anyway.

Tough answer, because my favorite suit/powers/monster gimmick is Ryuki, but my least favorite suit by a mile is Ryuki Survive.

I hate... basically everything about Ryuki Survive? I hate that he's got a gun, which takes the Charges Into Action character of Shinji and makes him a long-range combatant. I hate the whiskers on his helmet that become antenna. I hate the gigantic shoulders. I find it an enormous downgrade from the basic Ryuki suit.

And I love that suit! I can't believe Medieval Plugsuit was an aesthetic that someone came up with, and I can't believe it works so well. The red base suit is vibrant, the silver chestplate and helmet make it seem resilient and powerful, and the card slot on the forearm defines him as a fighter, a brawler. It's a great design.

That all said, my favorite Final Vent is probably Zolda's. Dude's contract monster is a Gundam, who launches a thousand missiles at his target. Is there anything cooler than that? If there is, it's probably not a manta ray. Sorry, Tezuka and Asakura!

For me, the worst part about Ryuki Survive is how his 'sword' is gripped, I can't stop thinking about how awkward it is for his wrist to swing it around. The best part however, is how his dragon turns into what might be my favourite bike in all of Kamen Rider.

I mean, it's hard to argue with turning a Contract Monster into a bike. Both Survives do it, and Alternative does it at one point. It's incredibly cool. I'll be honest, I still think I like Knight's Survive bike better. I think it's Knight's cape? Capes on bikes are totally impractical, which makes them awesome. It's like one better than a scarf, which is the minimum required neck attire for a motorcyclist.

This was all I had to say.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2jJ5A-geQo

Ryuki Survive I'm split on... but Dragranzer is genuinely one of the coolest designs I've ever seen. Of anything. It's just this huge mechanical dragon with bike parts and it owns that aesthetic; every time I see a picture of the SHF I adore it!

I've got to agree, I have the R&M series Knight Survive set from back in the day and it's still one of my favorite Ryuki pieces because of the bike.

Y'know, I like discussing the emotions and the meaning and just everything that's on a deeper level about Ryuki, but also can we just turn this into a "the upgrade form bikes are fucking sick" appreciation thread?

Things that turn into bikes are very cool, end of.

Also, time for me to come clean - I haven't seen Ryuki, but I love the designs for the Riders. "Knight plugsuits", as Die put it, is a great description, and they just look so sleek. So good. Ryuki, Alternative, Ouja, Verde, Femme all look so great in their simplicity.

Well, yeah, currently I would put "reasons why she doesn't keep throwing herself off of a building for 40 straight episodes?" on the same group with "what's an optimal way to stop the Rider War?".

Not simple as in the whole backstory, but regarding their parents only. Regarding some questions I see other asked about why their parents are that evil? The answers are that it's realistic, sometimes parents are just shitty people, no one has to love their kids and that this is a real thing that happens to children all over the world.

One thing for sure, just forget everything about "They took family trips to the beach that Yui clings to and retreats to". That's just a false memory Yui employs (due to her having a case of repressed memory) before Sanako finally reveals the truth, she clearly remarks how wrong she actually is in the return trip to Mirror Mansion. Besides why they draw Oarai Coast? Because, some pictures were recreation of something they saw around the house, like a photo of a ship on the Oarai Coast.

Pretty sure the "These kids were clearly sent to school, dressed, fed" part comes from Sanako (if you talk about how Yui's teased by classmates for seeing monsters, that should happen after the parents abuse because she can see the monsters, means she has merged with her Mirror self), she took Shiro for a while until he recovered, they aren't instantly separated.

Yeah for the pictures duplicating to existence, this is the one I can't fully explain, this is the problem I have with Mirror World story, but other parts likely isn't as much where I would explain if there are wrong takes. At least 13 Riders. Probably for the mirror being magic yeah, with Shiro becoming a scientist then studying and experimenting it to harness its power (would also include... the Rider Decks) for his needs, ends with him opening it too. I don't think so for the mansion as it's simply just Shiro's choice of base, the "magic" part there all comes from the stack of mirrors Shiro set up there (like in Room 401).

I'm just pointing out that they draw themselves too because there are people who are confused about Mirror Yui and Shiro appearing, but somehow not about Mirror Monsters appearing. Just have to remind that they also draw themselves in addition to the monsters (and for "why there's only duplicate of Yui?", the only humans they draw are themselves, they drew no other humans, as Yui pointed out in her disintegration scene, that time they only created a world for both of them with monsters as their protectors - to cope with their parents abuse). I'd say for "the Mirror World exist before they found it?", Mirror World is just the existing fantasy place in a setting, like Game World in Ex-Aid, Planet Blood in Build, or Helheim Forest on Gaim. For her forgetting, Yui has a case of repressed memory, which according to a source, means "a condition where a specific memory has been unconsciously blocked by an individual due to the high level of stress or trauma (all parts of their abuse, definitely, the duplicate merging with her also happens at that time of their life) contained in that memory."

Yeah though this is someone who, prefers to die herself rather than innocents getting that. Shiro even explains how scary death is to her to convince her to accept his method, which she admits it is, but also adds up other people dying is even worse, which would mean other people's death is just as devastating to her own death for her. "̶D̶e̶a̶t̶h̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶i̶r̶o̶n̶y̶"̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶e̶x̶e̶m̶p̶t̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶Y̶u̶i̶.̶ ̶

Of course I'm not talking about giving sympathy to him, he doesn't deserve it (and pleeeease don't, some people have been giving sympathy to villains just because they have bad backstory and/or allegedly good motivation, and thus ignoring their atrocities. Shiro has those 2, dunno if people give him sympathy based on that but there are number of other villains considered good/misguided because of having those 2 traits). I mean Shinji literally opposes him right after the scene, carrying Yui on. That should be enough indication not to side with him. But just want to explain from your mistake, that you thought the war is eternal and "no one can be saved", but Yui's disintegration here, happened before her birthday, so Shiro thinks there's still enough time to save her, but he's running out of time to do that, so he loses his shit (and the echo in his voice) completely. I̶f̶ ̶i̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶t̶r̶u̶l̶y̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶e̶n̶d̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶Y̶u̶i̶,̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶s̶a̶v̶e̶d̶, ̶T̶i̶m̶e̶ ̶V̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶r̶e̶s̶t̶a̶r̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶w̶a̶r̶.̶

I would just guess that, the person just have to participate in the fight as a Rider at one point of their life, but they can die by any way. Kitaoka's been dying, so there's no need for Shiro to make sure he dies; Three Is Enough = Three of them killing each other, Kitaoka dying soon on his own terms. For Shiro egging Kitaoka to participate before by reminding him about his illness... probably because like you said "Dude's a fan of Rider Battles" and he wants a potential double/more kill at once (Kitaoka killing other Riders, then inevitably die by his illness later, getting 2/more bodycounts at once)? And surely, Shiro changes now, he prematurely sends Odin to fight even if there are still other Riders, canceling his plan to fight only 1 last Rider, because of course time's running out, starting with Knight. Shiro still expects the other 2 (Zolda and Ouja) to fight. Also I can't talk further about this due to spoilers, the next final episode will surprise you for sure with this one.

Yeah there's a recurring Show, Don't Tell element from Kobayashi.

̶F̶r̶e̶s̶h̶ ̶O̶u̶j̶a̶ ̶t̶a̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶ ̶l̶e̶g̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶m̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶l̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶i̶m̶p̶r̶e̶s̶s̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶n̶ ̶c̶r̶i̶t̶i̶c̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶i̶n̶j̶u̶r̶e̶d̶ ̶R̶y̶u̶k̶i̶-̶w̶h̶o̶-̶c̶a̶n̶'̶t̶-̶p̶o̶s̶e̶-̶f̶o̶r̶-̶F̶i̶n̶a̶l̶-̶V̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶d̶o̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶.̶ Means it's a total onslaught on humans, but not on Riders. This brings up Mirror World discussion again but it seems that, some Mirror Monsters can reappear after they are killed (probably cases like Raydragoons here is 1 Mirror Monster duplicated over and over), which by itself, an unavoidable fate.

There are moments where I'll get deep in the weeds, excavating weird feelings about the lighting in a scene or the arc of a four-episode character, and I'll think What If You Talked About The Superhero Suits And Toyetic Worldbuilding For Like Five Goddamn Seconds.

I mean, it's just now, at Episode 49, that I'm like Ryuki Survive Is Gross. How long has that suit been around for? Twenty episodes? More?

It's weird, you guys. Thank you for indulging me.

Also, one of my all-time favorite Riders in anything is Lazer, whose own upgrade form is a bike, so, yes, very into acknowledging how awesome bike upgrades are.

These are all definitely explanations!

The parents' villainy... that's what I mean by them being cartoonishly evil. They are monstrous for completely unexplained reasons, and to such an absurd degree, that it's difficult to take seriously. (Are they seriously keeping these kids alive, and then when one of them drops dead they're just like Stop Making So Much Noise?!) I can't get on board with the backstory of the abusive parents, dramatically.

The other problem is that making Yui an unreliable narrator, it's tough to give a shit about her story if it's all lies in the end. What in the hell is she supposed to be protecting? Fighting for? Why should her disappearing be a loss? That's the "moving target" thing I was talking about. Depending on where you are in the series, Yui's either someone whose life is a complicated string of disappointments, desperate to return to the safety of childhood and her family... or she's a survivor of intense, fatal trauma who has a comparatively idyllic existence. It's not that a show can't reframe a backstory, Kamen Rider does it every single series, but the way they did it with Yui makes her either delusional or manipulated, or both. Fun choices!

MASKED RIDER RYUKI EPISODE 50

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ryuki/ryuki50a.png

Here's the moment I lost it.

Goro's revealed as Zolda, fighting Ouja in Kitaoka's place. Goro has to fight, because Kitaoka has died, unable to finish the last piece of business he had in the Rider Battles. He felt responsible for making Asakura a Rider, and wanted to end that rivalry for good. But he's dead, laid to rest on his couch, holding a white rose.

The same type of white rose that's on the table in the restaurant where Reiko waits for Kitaoka, a snowstorm outside. She waits, and notices that one of Kitaoka's knives is askew. He'd hate that. So she turns it, straightens it, makes it perfect for him. A small gesture. He'd never know she did it. But she thought of him, and fixed it.

That moment destroyed me. Even reading that last paragraph, I tear up.

It's a sad episode. Everyone dies. But it's a bittersweet episode, where a year's worth of character development blooms like a flower, creating something beautiful.

So much of this episode, grounded in character, creates moments, indelible moments, of grace and catharsis. Lives get lived, and eventually they end. Nothing can last forever. The point isn't to keep it, the point is to appreciate it, treasure it.

It's something Shiro finally realizes, as he watches the sacrifices of all of the Riders, the catastrophic damage the Rider Battles have wrought, and realizes that it doesn't matter. Yui will come back, but she won't live like that. She'd never allow it. And he could use Time Vent, spinning it all back and trying again, but it still wouldn't matter. She'd never be happy with Shiro's choices. But he needs to save her, like everyone in the show fought for their hopes and dreams. That friction, of needing something so badly that you're blinded to the consequences, it's at the heart of this show.

In the end, in keeping with the deaths of everyone we've followed over the series, it's about letting go. It's about being able to take that hurt and find some way to keep it from destroying you, find some way to appreciate what you have. Shiro can't keep Yui with him, but the memory of what they had, the literal and figurative ghost of her, maybe that can be a solace. Maybe it's okay if things end. Maybe fighting to keep them, at the cost of your soul, is ruining why they mattered.

It's hard to talk about the specifics of an episode like this. The first third is a dirge, everything you love ending. The middle third is the mastermind realizing the futility of his plan, abandoning the final confrontation. And then the final third is optimism, a second chance, a new world for our heroes and villains alike.

The first third worked like gangbusters for me. The silence of Asakura's charge into oblivion. The inevitability of Goro's reveal as Zolda, his death to honor Kitaoka's last wishes. (I never for a second thought Zolda was Kitaoka, but that doesn't rob that sequence of an ounce of power.) Reiko moving that cutlery, a brief moment of consideration for a man who infuriated her. It's all so considered. There's a poetry to this part, tragic demises and missed connections.

The middle third... I can see why they wanted to make the ending of this story focus on Shiro realizing his mistake. Shiro's power and pain isn't something you can defeat. But the acceptance he has, the reward he receives in that acceptance... That rehabilitation doesn't work great for me. It's a monster who realized far too late that he was a monster, and allows himself to be loved. I don't want good things for Shiro, no matter how sad he was. He ruined too many lives.

But then, in that final third, maybe he didn't? Maybe he could make it so the Rider Battles never happened, where Mirror Yui never occurred, where everyone gets a second chance. I don't completely know how I feel about this part yet. It's nice, certainly. It's great to see Tezuka again, unhelpful as always. The sequence of Shinji pushing his scooter through the entire cast of the show, only to end up at Atori for tea, it's a victory lap of a scene. I just... I wonder if it undercuts the hard-earned melancholy of the first part of the episode, and the thematic point of Shiro's letting go. For a climax that hinges on Shiro being okay with how things turned out, to stop forcing them to be what he needs, what does it mean if he brings everyone back? Does that choice contradict his growth? It's a nice ending, but is it too nice?

I don't know just yet. But Ryuki's a show about asking questions, about trying to understand what you want, and I'm okay mulling it over for a while.

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ryuki/ryuki50c.png

I'm sure you're going to find yourself met with all sorts of posts about the ending, probably even some suggestions on how you should feel about it. If it helps, it took me nearly a decade before I solidified my own feelings about Ryuki's ending.

I was expecting you to dislike it mostly because the ending comes down to Shiro letting Yui and himself disappear, which also has the side-effect of undoing all the harm he's done. The story ends on the note of the Kanzaki's tragic story being allowed to end, and I knew you didn't care at all for them, or at least not for Shiro.

I'm not really invested in the Kanzaki family and their weirdness myself, but... I do get it. All the other characters reach the end of their story, and the show decided it was not their place to see this whole Rider War to the end, but the man who started it all. I think that's fair, even if a more conventional ending of either Shinji or Ren being the ones to put the end to it would have personally made me happier.

Most people's gripes with the ending is just that it rewinds everything like nothing has happened, but I don't see it that way. Like I said, that everyone gets a second chance to live is just a side-effect of Shiro's decision, that he wouldn't burden anyone's lives anymore. I honestly think if everyone stayed dead, it wouldn't make much difference to the narrative, other than being sadder.

That all said, I still don't care that much for Shiro. He was certainly cool as a villain, at times appearing like an antagonistic force of nature, and seeming utterly untouchable whenever our heroes tried to physically confront him. But I wasn't interested in his story. It was Shinji, Ren, Kitaoka, and all the other participants of this battle for survival, and all of their tragic ends that leave me with fond memories of Ryuki. If you don't end up ever coming around to the Mirror World and Kanzaki parts of the show, then I hope all the Rider vs Rider stuff outshines all that whenever you think back to this show.

Thank you for that! Yeah, I'm interested in what people thought of the ending. It's definitely got some ups and downs to it, relative to what people wanted from Ryuki as a story.

I'll probably touch on this in a series overview post, but I don't think Kanzaki story worked that well dramatically. There're a lot of reasons, more than I want to get into right this second. Some of them are super-subjective, I can't lie. But overall, I was not that invested in Shiro's redemption. And it's not an I Didn't Want To See The Villain Redeemed complaint, because I really loved Ghost's (real) ending, with The Hug That Ended A War. I just didn't care about this villain getting this redemption. That said, it's imagined inventively, with both versions of Shiro and Yui surrounded by their happiest memory, working together to devise a refuge from the world. That's a great visual to end their story on. A+ set design.

But, no, it's the character stuff that's most rewarding to me in this show. It's a testament to how great the character stuff is that my dislike of the Mirror World story couldn't overshadow how invested I was in these people.

Bringing everyone back... still not sure about that. It's an incredibly bleak ending, for sure, if they all stay dead. I'm not super worried about the stakes argument, that none of it mattered since it was all undone. I mean, "mattered"... what the hell does that even mean? It's a story. Them making it so a new story can be told instead... did they delete my copies of the first 49 and a half episodes of Ryuki? No? Then I'm not mad about that part. But everyone coming back, even if it's just a by-product of him never leaving that room when Shiro and Yui were kids, I'm not sure what it says about Shiro learning his lesson. I worry that it undos some of that character development, even incidentally.

Like, I'm not mad about that final third. I wouldn't argue that it's a mistake. But it feels weird to me. It's a weird choice.

I have other thoughts that I may or may not give later - depends on if I know how to put it into words - but one thing I wanna put out there is that I don't think "world reset, everyone back alive again" is necessarily bad. Like any narrative tool it all depends on how you use it, what the context is, how well it fits your themes and messages etc etc.

And in Ryuki's case, I think it mostly succeeds. For me at least, it gives the whole series a framing of "this is how things could be if we're like this, and society does that", and I find that really interesting. Like a... I don't want to say a warning, because that sounds very authoritative and superior which completely goes against a lot of the show's messages, and it doesn't feel like that. More like a peek into how things could be, into a very different very violent alternate world; to make you question what sort of world you want. Like I said before, Ryuki was a series that ultimately I feel is not for me; but on reflection I think has so much going for it and so many positives I can speak of it. And I genuinely think the way they used the world reset is one of them.


One more thing I'd like to say is that while I don't necessarily agree with all your reasoning on it (abuse can... abuse can just be really whack like that. There's rarely a logic or consistency to it because it isn't a logical or consistent thing to do), I do overall agree that the Mirror World lore and backstory and all the rest of it is a big negative of the series. It just had me asking questions and frankly not the ones I think they wanted me to ask, and not ones that lead to any positive answers. The whole thing does feel very poorly thought out and very "this-is-my-second-draft-at-3AM-with-all-my-disconnected-thoughts-I'll-figure-out-how-it-all-actually-works-later". I sort of understand what they're going for, but that's despite how it's communicated rather than because of it.

This is going to sound like I'm ragging on Shiro but I don't think he cared much about anyone other than himself and Yui at the end. His decision was just about letting himself move on, accepting that what he's doing is pointless. Everyone else getting to live because of that decision was probably way at the back of his mind, if it even ever occurred to him at all.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

The parental abuse story elements... I don't want it to sound like there needs to be a strict, logical reason to abuse two children. (The fact that I had to write that sentence at all is not my proudest moment.) That's something that by its nature is inexplicable. It's more that that level of abuse is not the sort of thing you just toss in at the end of a superhero show for children. That is a gigantic premise that is almost insulting to use as thematic mortar. I think they're playing with fire, narratively.

The idea of the reset being a better version of these characters, I can see it a little bit... but then Asakura's there, being a violent asshole? It's like everyone's back, but no one's really better? They'll be safer, for sure (well, again: Asakura), but that's the only real advantage they have. It's mildly optimistic, a second chance for characters who doomed themselves, but that's at best implied, at worst inferred.

And I don't dislike the use of a story reset at the end of a story. I mean, Build! Build used it perfectly! Here, it doesn't really feel grown out of the story they were telling. It feels... incongruent? It feels like an emotional choice that they're struggling to rationalize.

Or maybe that's just me!

I guess that's the heart of why I dislike Shiro's happy ending. He doesn't acknowledge his mistakes, exactly, he just admits the futility of them. He tries a different way to get what he wants, without ever really valuing anything other than getting what he wants. It's a sympathetic ending for someone who never really deserved the audience's sympathy.

Oh, for sure. I think that's actually the reason why I didn't like Adel's ending in Ghost. With Shiro here though, I at least didn't get the impression that the show was telling me that I should feel sympathy for him. The scenes sold to me that what we were seeing was just sort of a natural conclusion of his story, rather than trying to make me sad for him. ...I was a little sad all the same though. Just a little.

Also if Ryuki's ending happened today, I would probably cynically say it was for the sake of the next Winter crossover movie! Unless the next season after was Ghost, then Takeru could meet Shinji's spirit and... Yeah, anyway, can't wait for you to get to the movie. ...The Ryuki movie, not this hypothetical crossover.

Aaah, now I think I get you better! Yeah, that's fair; that makes sense. It's the whole idea of it being something super significant that they just sort of said and swept to the side... I can get that. Think I agree with you honestly.

See, I think that's to its benefit as well! It's not an overwhelmingly positive new start; there's still terrible things there; and there's no guarantee things will go better.

Which... good. Ryuki's a series that plays with very realistic settings (alongside a guy in a green jumpsuit summoning his robot minotaur of death but, y'know. Relative terms.), realistic stakes, and realistic characters. It's not going to pretend that if The Big Very Bad Thing didn't happen then everything would go all right, and everyone would make the right choices, and that there wouldn't be monsters out there doing very real very terrible things. And to me that gives a few positive outcomes here:-

A) Once again, it asks the viewer what sort of world they want. This isn't a new perfect world made just for you where everything will go well: this is your second chance. This is asking the viewer to do things right, considering all the conflict and circumstances they've just seen in the series and how it relates to the real world.

B) It makes the viewer much more aware of how these people could exist in real life; how real their struggles are and how they exist beyond the realms of how they interact with a fantasy world where they're trying to kill monsters.

C) ... The idea of "Even without catastrophe, the world was never perfect or without its evils to defeat" is. An extremely mature and brave message to put out there for a series that was made as a response to 9/11.




That's basically where I'm at with the ending. It's not trying to say "now that the mirror world stuff is gone, everything is okay!". It's instead saying "now that the mirror world stuff is gone, what have you learned, what else is out there and what can you do to make the world a better place?"

After all, that's kind of what Shinji was all about. While definitely one of the most naive and more foolhardy main Riders, he wasn't exactly thinking that the world was perfect before he ran into his first Mirror Monster. He was a journalist; albeit a rookie and an assistant in his field, but he was still seeing every day what other terrible shit was happening in the world and even if he was doing it one minor step at a time, he was always trying to do what he felt was the best way to help people. He was always a hero trying to do his best in this world; Rider Deck or not.

I guess the Ghost/Adel thing works better for me because everything Adel experiences leads up to that moment, and everything Takeru experiences leads up to that moment. It's the hero of the series reaching out to the villain of the series, defeating his plans with empathy. It's the culmination of everything the series was about.

With Shiro's ending, it's thematically sound but dramatically inert. The only character who pushes him to change is Yui. Shinji and Ren, the two ostensible leads in the show, don't even factor in to Shiro's decision-making. And, really, he makes that decision by himself, in isolation, days after Yui's plea for him to see reason. There's no feeling of the heroes' actions having any bearing on the villain's redemption.

Look, if people could just start referring to Ghost as "Ryuki, but better", I'd really appreciate it, thanks.

(Ghost is not Ryuki but better! I'm just stirring shit!)

Pretty soon! Probably later today! I just wanted to give the final episode some space, both in my brain and in this thread.

I think that's a really nice way to look at the ending. Great insight!

Man, I am really glad I don't even need to try arguing this point while I'm still hip-deep in writing about Kuuga. I don't think I would've had the endurance for it. :lol

Legitimately, though? You say you need some time to process this one, but I think you're already a lot further on your way there than you might think. I'm not too sure what I really have to add right now, and I'll probably just save it for after you do your wrapup post.

I do want to say some stuff about Shirou though. I'm probably wading into unpopular opinion territory again, so let's see how this goes.

The Mirror World stuff, it's not great. It could be a lot tighter and a lot simpler. Yui, honestly, one of my least favorite Rider heroines ever, which I've avoided saying this whole time to avoid being too blunt about it. She's a little too static, underdeveloped, and pushed out of her own story way too much. I've played devil's advocate on those points here and there, but at the end of the day I also don't disagree too much with most of what you've said about her. And Kanzaki? Yeah, he's a great mirror ghost dude and it's funny when he tells people to fight, but the idea of there being more to him than that? It's a tough sell. And he legitimately didn't know what to do with his hands in that scene where Yui disappears! That was very awkward!

But in the end? That last episode? I seriously think it all comes together in a way where I don't find myself too upset about the journey getting there. The resolution to Shirou's character is pretty much perfect, both for how much it fits the show, and for how it kinda reframes him and makes everything click into place. He's not like some A+ villain, I guess, but something about the idea of this person that really isn't even a person anymore. This guy who seems to not even register the world around him as something that exists, blind to everything except his desire to save the only person he ever loved, who's become a total shell in his relentless pursuit of that goal. A ghost in more ways than one.

I don't know, something about that jives with me, and him kind of finding just enough humanity in himself at the very end to realize he doesn't belong, I think that works great.

As for whether or not his big lesson is undone by everyone coming back, I mean, I think he wouldn't have been learning his lesson if they didn't? You can probably tell how much more sympathetic I am to him when I say this, but I've always viewed the Riders getting their lives back at part of his penance, pretty much. It's not just a happy byproduct of letting Yui go, it's the trade-off. He never, ever had a right to mess with these people's lives the way he did, and because of that, it just makes way more sense for them to get those second chances when he gives up on having one for himself and Yui. It's not about their lives being better or worse. At all. It's just about them having less Shirou.

Or at least I think I think all of these things? I feel like I'm not making sense again, but hopefully something in there was at least some food for thought. I might be willing to throw this entire show under the bus to get you to say more nice things about Ghost, who knows? :p

Takeru hugging Adel to end the apocalypse is one of my all-time favorite Kamen Rider endings (and it was the ending to Ghost) and I'll stump for it at the drop of a hat.

Thanks for the feedback on the ending! I'm finding it fascinating how people process the timeline reset, and you've got a neat take on it. I don't know how much I'm ever going to believe Shiro regretted his actions, but I definitely like to keep it as a possibility.

Also, man, are we ever going to talk about Shiro's hair? I have a not-entirely-joking theory that the same head of hair that makes him seem otherworldly and unreachable keeps him from being sympathetic and human enough to deliver the show's intended ending.

"Regret" might be a strong word for the way I see it? I used the wording "just enough humanity" for a reason. I think Shirou is far too broken to have proper, conscious thoughts about anything not relating directly to Yui. Even that final decision is largely pushed by the usual binary "Yui happy=good", "Yui not happy=bad" logic he applies to everything. The only difference being he stops trying to decide for Yui what makes her happy.

But I'd like to think, somewhere deep down, he did realize, at least a little, how much he f***ed up beyond that. And even if he didn't, all the people Shirou made unhappy was one of the things making Yui unhappy, so it'd still fit in there somewhere.