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- Tokusatsu Show Discussion
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- - What are you watching (Sentai edition)
(https://www.tokunation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119)
My biggest beef with Ohranger is that it is kind of boring. The ranger cast never grows and they are just handed an upgrade every time it is needed.
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I feel like we don't really need parodies anymore because modern entries in things tend to self-parody, either for comedic effect or just as a deconstruction of the genre to appear more realistic.
Anyways, watched episode 4 of Liveman the other day, about to watch episode 5. This is the first 3-member team show I've seen and honestly I think I prefer a smaller lineup. What else is there? Gekiranger? Hurricanger? The great Sun Vulcan? |
3 man teams are rare, and many of them don't stay at that number for long (I think Sun Vulcan is the only one that does).
Of your list, I think the only one you missed was Go-Onger and Gobusters. |
From the beginning Go-Onger was marketed as a f-member team though. Just like Zyuohger is even though the main gattai is a there-piece. The different changers and later acceptance of powers does set it apart though.
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But yeah, I know that they don't stay like that very long. Also, how could I forget those two :cry |
Why delay it? If you're so certain you're gonna love it, why not start it as soon as possible? :p
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I try not to watch too many series at once so I can focus more on the ones I am watching. Since I'm currently following Ninninger while going through Kamen Rider and Liveman as well as trying to finish off like 5 games, I'm not gonna start anything new until I can cross some of these things off my list.
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^I understand that. I usually watch the current season and two older seasons (until I have watched them all) in regards to sentai. Like right now, I am on GoGo-V and Carranger (episode 24 on both) and will probably be into Zyuohger when GoGo-V is finished being subbed, which is fine. After those two are done, I want to retackle Battle Fever J and Timeranger. I started and gave up on both a while ago.
When those are done, I have seen everything that is subbed...and that stinks lol But GUIS is doing Flash and Change, so that is neat. |
I usually don't do more than 1 series at a time, especially when I have video games to play. Right now I'm playing Witcher 3, which owns my soul and watching Power Rangers Turbo. After I finish Turbo I will play another round of catch up with Ninninger (left off at 41) and then after I finish Witcher I will start Megaranger.
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Baranoia was a hyper-credible threat for the first 8 episodes. Like, seriously, they basically destroy the whole world except for Japan. Then they become a total joke for the vast majority of the show, until... The finale arc, where they literally turn a whole city into a Baranoia stronghold. Once Kaiser Buldont joins the team, Baranoia wreaks mass destruction on a scale rarely seen in Sentai. If you calculate the number of deaths cause by Baranoia and compared them to almost any other sentai bad guys, they're probably close to the top of the list. Aside from a loooooooong stretch of banal goofy bullshit in the middle of the show where Baranoia are buffoonish losers, in the beginning and end they're a tremendous threat. Quote:
Also, way too much giant mecha one-on-one basketball training. Jesus, Ohranger is a strange show. It has some of the highest and lowest points in the whole franchise. |
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Without looking at an episode list, I'd advise watching the first 8, then any episode written by Sugimura, then the finale arc with Kaiser Buldont. That would give you basically everything you need to enjoy the show and understand the plot (what little there is). I'd have to get back to you if you wanted more detail. |
I finished watching Liveman today and I had tons of fun with that show. I liked the story and its overall themes. The three main heroes were incredibly likeable and I liked how well they played off of each other. The Villains were fun to watch too. Bias was your generic Sentai bad Guy and the two aliens were nothing special either. Kemp, Mazenda, Obler and Ashura were pretty cool though.
My biggest complain with the show are Black Bison and Green Sai. They are okay but they never got integrated into the show as well as I would have liked. |
Maskman episodes 37-41.
So episode 37... This sure felt rushed and a bit unnecessary. The basic gist of this one is the M.O.W. has a powder that hits Kenta and makes him a coward, too scared to fight. As far as idea go for villains, not a bad one. Don't actually have to kill the Maskmen, just put one or more out of commission, thus making it harder for the Team to function properly. Unfortunately this episode has some issues. First off lets start with the fact that Kenta is the main target. Now, Kenta is my favorite character in Maskman, but even I think he's had too many episodes focused on him, for better or for worse. By this point they should've picked someone else, perhaps Momo, since I can't recall any episode focused on her. My other issue is with a one off character, just a civilian that Kenta rescues near the beginning of the episode. My main issue is how they use him, which is that the guy wants to try and help Kenta over come his crippling fear. Okay, that's fine, I like the idea that some random guy would want to do good, especially for someone that rescued him. Too bad the guy doesn't really do much. All he does is attack Kenta with a Skillet, to "help" and spout about becoming the best chef in Japan and how dreams are important, to overcome obstacles etc. Again, not a bad idea, seen it done in Sentai before. But not here. This is incredibly forced. That's about all of have to say. This was by in large just a bland episode. Though if I am to give credit, Koichi Kusakari is intense as shit by the end of the episode, it's easily the best part seeing him go boarderline Ultimate Warrior. 38. Here's a simple tip for writing I've heard over and over again: Don't do time travel unless you want to set up rules for it. So, Tube has a monster that can open up portals in time. This seems like quite the oversight to not make use of a monster with cosmic level powers until now. Anyway, Igam and Fumin go back to kill Takeru when he was a kid. Of course if they did that, Takeru wouldn't become Red Mask, which means they wouldn't need to go back in time, but then Takeru would live, and this is what we call a Grandfather paradox. Yeah. Very easy to fuck up time travel plots. That aside. It was a better episode than the last one, but it really only serves to show that Takeru was lazy, sometimes a brat, and accident prone as a kid. He also liked pretending to be Kikaider, which was probably worth a watch alone. I just love cute little nods like that. Oh, and Young Takeru calls Haruka and Momoko 'Ugly Bitches', which Momoko later calls adult Takeru in retaliation. That's honestly kind of amazing for all the wrong reasons. 39. And finally we come to a big one, the one with X-1 Mask. And you know what? This was a pretty good episode. It was interesting seeing the prototype for the sixth ranger and how a lot of stuff that would be applied to early sixths applies to X1. He's rough around the edges, he has a tragic backstory involving the loss of a loved one, he's reluctant at being heroic, and is capable of pulling off some amazing stuff. He's handled well enough for it being a one episode appearance, as they do a decent enough job fleshing out his character for what we need in the given time frame. Really the biggest issue I have is that he doesn't stick around, even in a support manner, since I really feel there could have been a lot done with his character. As it stands, this was enjoyable. Maybe part of that has to do with it's interesting historical placement, but the episode was done quite well and a refreshing pace. 40. Oh boy. This episode features some background information on Commander Sanjuro Sugata, a character I've expressed an admiration for in the past for his firm yet still caring attitude towards the team. I was rather looking forward to this one because of my fondness. We've gotten some bits and pieces here and there, like in episode 39 when he was training X1. But this was full on background information. *sigh* We have a famous Pianist named Mayu Kozuki. She's returning to Japan after living in France for three years, reason being is she wants to find the man(who's face and name she doesn't know) who saved her when she was little and funded her studys abroad. Tube targets her, things happen and one of her hands turns to stone, rendering her incapable of playing the piano. Eventually we learn why Tube is targeting her, by none other than Sugata. Turns out that Kozuki and her family are actually from the underground empire, and they're capable of playing music that forces the mooks and monster of the empire to dance. Ten years ago, Kozuki's mother was killed by the empire as result of this power, and Kozuki only escaped the same fate as her mother because Sugata was in the right place at the right time. Now we come to the part that made not only this episode- but Sugata as a character- fall apart for me. Sugata mind wiped Kozuki's memories. She doesn't remember Tube, her parents, her mother's death, or Sugata. The only reason she even knows about the man the saved her is because of second hand information Nuns have said to her about it, since Sugata left her at a monastery after erasing her memories. Just... There is nothing about this that is right. I don't care if seeing her mother die in front of her was horrifying, that does not in anyway justify erasing all memories she ever had of her mother and everything else. This is some DC level bullshit. Any credit or aspects that were enjoyable or emotional in this episode are completely void by this. Sugata did something that was remarkably stupid and morally wrong. All it did was make Kozuki desperately want to know about her parents and the man who rescued her. And no, she never meets Sugata. Episode ends with her hoping he hears her music(while he looks on). Asshole. Now, to be perfectly fair, this doesn't necessarily completely ruin Sugata. I know this will probably never be brought up again in Maskman, but it undoubtedly puts a dark cloud over his character. No matter what, erasing a little girls memories is part of his back story because of this episode. 41. Oh boy, if you thought that last one made a character into an asshat, just you wait. This is our obligatory rangers go bad episode. I think these are usually pretty fun, since it's just an excuse to do a lot of crazy and goofy things that are hilariously out of place. And hey, it focuses on Haruka and Momoko, who haven't had an episode in a while. But lets get into the episode. This time we have Kiro with a needle shooting monster, which makes people become beserking thieves. The monster initially misses, hitting two bystanders(one of which pulls an Uzi out of nowhere :lol) Once they take care of the two, Haruka and Momoko notice the needles and figure they were meant to be the real targets, since the victims where directly in front of them. Cudos, I always like seeing competent heroes. They try to deduce where the shots would have been fired from, but end up getting hit just as they look towards the building. Then the ridiculous begins, and I mean that in a good way. Momo somehow got a freaking Thompson and Haruka has an Uzi. They go shooting up and robbing a jewellery store, dressed in sweet 80s "bad girl" clothing no less. They come into a confrontation with the rest of the Maskmen, leading to confusion and a short car chase, but it ends when Momo shoots at Akira, causing him and Kenta to wreck. Kiros and the MOW appear, trying to turn the rest, but failing. Kiros also reveals that he's specifically doing this to not only get the Masks out of the way, but also gather riches for Princess Ial. Because Kiros is a nutter. Barabara and Igam are displeased with Kiros' selfish misuse of the Doggler, though Anagmas and Zeba point out that he is getting results with two Maskmen no longer a threat to them. Meanwhile, Momo and Haruka rob a car which for some incredibly stupid reason is carrying several suit cases full of Gold Bars. I mean, I guess it's less obvious than an armored truck but...why? Anyway, crime wave montage with rockin' music, followed by a brief confrontation with the rest of the team once more. Momo intentionally leaves a map behind for them. Momo and Haruka meet with Jiros and lo and behold, while he's gawking,they pull their guns on him and announce that everything there is fake. Unfortunately Kiros manages to overcome the both of them and ties them up above a bed of spikes. He even openly admits that he's doing this because it's more fun than just killing them quickly. I'd argue that's stupid- and it is- but it fits with Kiros' theatrical personally. The others show up, rescue Haruka and Momo, and Jiros gets trapped in a cage since the girls had a plan B. Awesome. Haruka reveals that they never actually got hit with the needles, and that all the cars and shops robbed were part of the Light Force team. Honestly, that makes a lot of sense. The F-1 team functioned as an actual race team, but was still made up of the Maskman. So it stands to reason that there would be other subsidiaries to both be a cover and bring in cash for funding the entire operation behind the scenes. Sugata also chimes in and says they needed to be sure that Jiros wouldn't find out, so telling the other three was out of the question. Again, makes sense given that Jiros was close by on several occasions. This legitimately got me. I've seen episodes dealing with Rangers being mind controlled and stuff before, I've not seen a subversion of that episode. Of course, after all that is said, a cage can't hold a guy that escaped a demonic blackhole, so a fight breaks out. Momo and Haruka take on the MOW single handedly, just short of the Jet Cannon being called in anyway. They really get to shine in this episode. Kiros buggers off and the usual giant monster mech fight happens. Nothing too special. Now then, you may have noticed I talked about this episode in particular a lot, and that's largely because I enjoyed it. It has issues to be sure, but they're mostly minor ones and I had a lot of fun with this. I like how it surprised me near the end. But...I'm not done talking about the episode yet. There's still one more scene to discuss. One I did not expect or want. Momoko and Haruka see off the bystanders that were hit with needles earlier in the episode, just making sure they're safe and all. Suddenly they have guns pointed into their backs, followed by someone in a dark suit and sunglasses telling them to put their hands in the air. They do so. One of the three men tells them to take their clothes off, as his finger moves closer to the trigger. Close-up shot of Haruka unzipping her hoodie. The men turn out to be Akira, Takeru, and Kenta, saying that they're just kidding. Lets not bullshit here. They play a "prank" on their friends and team mates, by making them think they're probably about to be sexually assaulted and/or murdered by gangsters. This is disturbing to me. This somehow got approved. This was thought of as being okay by someone, by more than one person. This could easily be a series killer had something like this happened earlier on. I wanted to try and finally finish Maskman up since I was putting it off for so long. But, that scene was truly horrible and idiotic. I'm gonna go watch Stronger or something that hopefully won't make me feel icky. Goddamn man. What level of Goddamn insanity do you have to be on to write something like that? |
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1-8 19-22 26-28 32 (not because it is a story based episode, but becasue it is just a damn amazingly creepy episode) 33-35 37-41 45-48 Oh, and trust me, you do not want to watch episode 36 unless you love long fart jokes. |
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The ending of the show was good, but I felt like Bulldont just got weaker all of a sudden with no real explanation. Like he as able to cock slap the team and the world, then all of a sudden he was beaten. I don't know, Ohranger had its ups that were really up and it's downs that were embarrassingly low (as you said). The goofy filler were over-the-top goofy, but the plot driving episodes were very enjoyable. It was such a mixed bag; it felt like there were about 19 different main writers for the show that all did their own thing. Oh well, still glad I watched it. |
I may have mentioned this in my intro post a few weeks ago, but I'm pretty much brand new to watching Super Sentai. I started watching them last month, and now I've watched two complete series (Shinkenger and Gekiranger). I blogged about it here:
My early Super Sentai experience (apologies if this counts as self-promotion) I'm currently around the 30-episode mark in Dairanger (I've seen two or three episodes with the Four Deva Kings) and around the 15-episode mark in Boukenger. I like having two shows from two different eras to switch between, so I'll probably start another 90s series once I've finished Dairanger. Thinking Jetman. |
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Jetman was enjoyable to watch through, but I personally felt that the constant bickering between both the Jetmen and Vyram got tiresome. That isn't to say it isn't a great series though, it's definitely worth checking out. Also look into Liveman. I just started it and love it so far, and lots of people say it's the best series of the 80s. Also, other people post up their reviews of Sentai, so you should be fine. However, I'm not an expert on the rules here, nor am I any sort of authority figure on this site, so don't take my word as law. |
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I'm a little leery of going into the 80s, since I know it would represent a downgrade in special effects, and maybe also action and storytelling. I have no doubts that several of the 80s shows are good and have great characters, but... yeah I guess I'm just a little distrustful. I'll track down the first few episodes of Liveman and decide if it's for me. |
I watched Gaoranger and let me tell you, It's all about GaoSilver
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I can't really comment on the quality of 80's Sentai as I've only seen 2, Sun Vulcan and Liveman, and good god is Sun Vulcan a chore. So my opinion on 80's series is a solid 50/50 on good and bad.
Jetman is a decent series, but a lot of it's praises stem from about 7 episodes of it's 50 episode run, so keep that in mind. |
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It also has one of my favorite mech designs http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/...20140603023212 Give it a try whenever you feel like it and let me know what you think. I personally prefer old school Sentai to new school Sentai, so I hope you enjoy it, but if you don't I can't blame you. |
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A lot of the 80s shows are actually going to look better than the late-90s/early-00s shows. This is because the 80s series were mastered to 16mm film, while the late-90s/early-00s shows were mastered to extremely poor quality analog SD video tapes. Since you can get much higher "resolution" from 16mm film than the SD video of the late-90s, Toei had access to superior-quality sources for their DVD releases of the late-70s-through-early-90s shows. Because it was drawn from film, the DVD release of Maskman looks infinitely better than that of Megaranger, which-- despite being more modern and having better special effects-- was drawn from analog SD video. (The exceptions to this are Gorenja and Jetman, but that situation is more complicated than I'd like to get into right now.) As far as storytelling goes, from what I've seen of the 80s shows, there is a bit of a difference. The characters and stories are a bit more simplistic in the 80s, but unexpectedly, they're also darker, more violent, and less overtly childish. This has to do with the timeslot for the show being in the evenings back in the day, so the content was geared more toward the whole family, not just children. Today, Sentai's timeslot is Sunday mornings, so the content is targeted more directly at children; however, the storytelling is more varied and sophisticated. (Of course, I'm generalizing, there are exceptions to all of this.) As for action? The martial arts fights of the 80s are more brutal and intense. The 80s choreography is not quite as reliant on wire-work, so things are a bit more impactful and less fanciful. Comparing Changeman's fights to Kyoryuger's is kind of like comparing Sonny Chiba's The Streetfighter to Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Both are awesome, but they're pretty different stylistically. Basically, what I'm trying to say is, all eras of sentai have their merits. If you can overlook the age-related flaws of 90s sentai, I don't think it'd be a stretch to get into the stuff that came before. |
1980's Sentai may look kinda weird at first, but they actually can be very good. I definitely recommend Changeman, Flashman and Turboranger, as they have strong story telling elements and are great sentai in general. Maskman and Liveman also seem to be pretty good too.
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I coudn't make it beyond 10 episodes of Dynaman, but the show might be better subbed than raw. I also found Bioman, Maskman, and Turboranger to be quite boring. There just wasn't enough in there to make me go "WOW!" They might have been much better shows if you saw them in order compared to see the 90s stuff first. Liveman, on the other hand, was the first series from the 80s I saw, so that could be why my expectations are different. I have seen the first few episodes to Changeman and Flashman, but not enough to justify their shows. |
Turboranger may seem a little weird at first glance, from what I've seen I really liked it and it has some fun plots and the characters are HS students who actually feel and look like HS students, and we see some interactions with other students and stuff. It's a pretty fun series.
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Sure, Jetman doesn't start firing on all cylinders, but it's utterly reductive to say it's only praised for seven of its episodes. |
I think Jetman is definitely a good series, but I don't think it lives up the major hype people build for it. The characters never really develop a whole lot and the triangle can get really grating. For me at least it falls somewhere in the middle. It's nothing great, but it isn't terrible.
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Jetman doesn't have 7 praise worthy episodes. I'm just saying that most of Jetman's universal acclaim comes from Gai and Ryu's being at odds (When I was considering watching it, that's all anyone mentioned). After viewing it, they were never really at opposite ends unless the episode specifically called for it. Gai was aloof a lot, but unless the episode needed Gai to be a pissy bitch or Ryu to be a pushy ass, they were never really shown to be at ends. So when people try to recommend Jetman based on "Gai and Ryu," they're really only talking about 7 odd episodes where it actually comes up (There are probably more, but I'm trying my hardest to avoid ones that center on Kaori being a vapid, misleading bitch) When I first watched Jetman, I don't recall anyone mentioning Radiguet or Tran, the other Jetmen (Namely Raita), or any other storylines. |
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This brings up a good point. I find that a lot of toku fans are notoriously terrible at communicating why they actually like a thing. :lol *JETMAN SPOILERS FROM HERE ON* Sure, a big part of what makes Jetman great is the relationship between Ryu and Gai. Gai starts as a scoundrel, Ryu a boy scout. And over the course of the series, Ryu's influence allows Gai to realize that he doesn't have to be a callous loner all the time-- that he can be a good person and care about other people without sacrificing his "cool guy" image. Meanwhile, Gai challenges Ryu's strict and rigid moral code. Gai's growth as a hero teaches Ryu that he can embrace his own inner rogue without abandoning his sense of right & wrong, allowing Ryu to stop feeling so guilty and repressed about his perceived duty. By the end, these two heroes are able to understand each other in ways they absolutely couldn't at the start, and I don't know that I've ever seen a relationship as strong as theirs in Sentai. But Jetman's greatness is so much more than that. It's found in the intense interpersonal drama (our guys are put through the ringer), the moral shades of gray, the storytelling structure, the absurd comedy, the cliffhangers (oh, the cliffhangers!), and the lovable side characters (Raita, Ako, and Commander Aya primary among them). It's found in the way the bad guys and good guys trade the upper-hand every few episodes, giving the distinct feeling that the groups make each other stronger the more they fight each other (seriously, the heroes and villains feel like equals in a way I've never seen in another Sentai). It's found in the tragic arcs of Maria, Grey, and Gai. It's found in Radiguet's heartbreaking acts of villainy. It's found in the performances and the cast's chemistry and the music and the action and in so many other elements I can't hope to list them all. If it wasn't clear, I hold Jetman very close to my heart. I had such a strong emotional reaction to this series that it hurts to see all the cynical backlash directed at it (here and elsewhere). These days, it seems like "the cool thing" to dislike Jetman after people revered it for so long. Whether it's true or not, it feels like the newer toku fans are rebelling against the older ones by saying they don't like Jetman, and adhering to that opinion as a point of pride. I think that attitude does a disservice to what the show actually is and to what it represents to the franchise and its fans. Maybe I was unfairly applying the sentiment I've been noticing more and more to your post, Matrix. If so, sorry! |
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Aside from that, I did enjoy the dynamic relationships between all the characters. Obviously the highlight was Gai and Ryu, but the other characters had interesting relationships, especially across the two teams. Gai and Gray seemed to have a lot of respect for each other, even though they were enemies. The tension between Maria and Ryu was also interesting. Then once Tranza showed up, the villain dynamic became a bit more interesting. But all the bickering and everybody getting mad at each other got old really fast. |
I think Jetman's problem is just that people who enjoy it sell it too much on the few prime factors. Namely, Gai.
So newcomers expecting a Sentai with an aloof cool guy who doesn't always play nice as part of the starting team will only get that in small bursts throughout a 50 episode run, which can leave some dissatisfied. I don't think people are going "Anti-Jetman" to be needlessly contrary, but because expectations were raised to impossible to meet standards by fans who assume everyone can write off the many flaws due to strong positives. |
Jetman's a pretty good sentai, but I don't rate it as high as others.
Some of the ideas in the series however were presented very well, like for example Ryu's emotional change through out the series is quite extensive for a kids show let alone sentai, and it has the romance issues all over which makes it feel more mature in a sense. But they did have some great episodes where the villains and heroes would power over each other, and some very interesting episodes. The Teddy Bear one and the Poker one with Gai and Grey are some of my favorite Sentai Episodes, and the humanity feeling of most of the villains was a great idea. But sometimes I felt some episodes got kinda boring, such as the Tomato King episode which I really don't like and the scientist with Hiryuu/ChangeDragon's actor wasn't that good. But it really does feel like a blend of drama, Super Sentai and emotion into one. It also has one of the more emotional endings in a series. I think the two series after which used similar ideas(Megaranger, Abaranger) are better however. Well in Abaranger's case the villains are not even close to Jetman's goodness, but there are other things I like better. |
Been catching Ohranger for the first serious time this week. Up to episode 5 and really loving it so far. I know it takes a bit of a dive at the halfway point, but I really really do like it right now. It feels very original to me. While I know it's happened previously that shows have waited to fully introduce the main mecha, I appreciate that Ohranger hasn't even touched mecha for 5 episodes. Allowing you to see how badass the team can be against giant enemies on foot. Very good stuff.
It's nice to finally see more of this show than just clips wihtout subs for once. I'm glad I waited for the series to be finished before starting. I can power through all of it in one go. |
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