Aaaah, you went ahead and spoiled it! I was gonna wait until the end of the series to tell him that :p

Either way, yeah, that's something I learned recently too and lead me to massively recontextualise everything I felt about Ryuki and everything I thought I knew about it. It's why even though it didn't do much for me, I now have reams of respect for what it was trying to do and how it went about it, and what I said in the post just above is part of that.

And just to connect it to something else in your post: knowing all this now actually made me feel super guilty about what I said about it being a show made before Kobayashi really nailed down her 'touch', and what made her writing special. Like, first of all the general direction and conclusion of the show were not even majorly up to hers, for starters; but second of all the context of the time really does do a lot to show why particular writers wanted to tell a particular type of story.

All the stuff I loved about OOO and Toqger and Shinkenger and Den-O, about knowing what the right thing is but struggling to do that and struggling to live up to an ideal? Of the flaws associated with being a self-sacrificial saint; of falling into darkness when striving for the light; of losing everything important to you despite desperately trying to hold on... but still being able to come through the end of the tunnel just fine, with your altruism and your dedication to your loved ones holding strong against everything that tries to do it in? A lot of that is still present within Ryuki -- and the parts of it that aren't present, the parts that I felt were most important, aren't missing because Kobayashi hadn't figured it out yet; they're missing because they wouldn't be appropriate for this type of story.

It's like... it still hasn't changed my opinion of what Ryuki means to me on a personal level. It's good to know why I feel that way - a story about different ideals of justice clashing and questioning what is truly right works well for a 9/11 fallout and the type of things they want kids to think about, but naturally that means it won't resonate well with me in the type of world I currently live in and the problems the modern day has presented me with. But what it has changed is that I now entirely get where Ryuki was coming from, and it gives me a hell of a lot more respect for it and everyone involved!

The 9/11 thing is really interesting. I don't know that I'd've been able to pick that out (it's been so long that I don't immediately think of it has having an effect on art), but I can see it a bit. I mostly think the idea of taking kids who are confused or scared about living in a post-9/11 world, of not understanding what adults are talking about, and deciding the lesson they should learn is that The World Is A Complicated Place And Everyone Considers Their Actions To Be Just, like, goddamn.

It's interesting to me that, in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, folks wanted clear-cut stories of heroism, might makes right and villains are punished. But, just past the immediate aftermath, there was a lot of art exploring things like the chaos of warfare, liberty versus safety, ideological conflict, etc. Ryuki's maybe ahead of the curve for that? Feels like they got there a little early, at least compared to American art.

But, yeah, I can see those post-9/11 themes now if I'm looking for them. (I'm expecting some Sentai-ish themes to develop later, like The Power Of Teamwork and Our Diversity Is Our Strength and whatnot, I got ideas that I can't fully articulate that seem like they might come into play, I don't know, I don't watch Sentai, maybe all that stuff'll be unique to Ryuki if it comes to pass.)

To add on to the 9/11 connection to Ryuki here a article in english talking about it. https://tokusatsunetwork.com/2018/08...ction-to-9-11/
Growing up in post 9/11 world it kinda facinating seeing the before and after affect it had on Rider of all things.

My bad! :p

It's probably not a bad thing to have in mind while watching the series, either though.

Ahh, it's all coming back to me now! I think that exact article is where I first heard that. What that article doesn't mention that I find most fascinating is that apparently Shirakura is the one who decided teaching kids about justice meant doing something morally complex and challenging. The guy gets a lot of flack for things that are probably entirely deserved sometimes, but I think refusing to do a show that professes justice to a be a singular, unquestionable thing proves he has a good grasp on what the core values of the franchise are.

Winding it back to the Showa era with more historical trivia I only learned recently, the original Kamen Rider generally avoided being described as fighting simply for the nebulous concept of justice, but rather the specific cause of human freedom. This, too, was apparently a conscious decision since even the Nazis, whose fascistic dogma was of course a huge inspiration for bad guy groups like Shocker, would tell you they're in the right.

This uh- this conversation ended up getting pretty deep all of a sudden, huh? Man, hard to believe we're barely past Raia's introduction. Sorry if I'm making things a little heavy!

This also called back to in the epilouge of Wizard had Tsukasa proclaming that "someone" said that Kamen Riders aren't fighting for justice but rather humanities freedom. So this ideal is still carried over in the new shows as well

I know there are lots of comments before, but not to be attention-seeking, can you also check my replies before?

Shinji one is the precursor of something like Sento's dilemma. And Tezuka managed to memorize the symbol of Knight to draw it to predict him. Can we also talk on how the way Ren "consoles" Shinji? He didn't try to ignore him or something but he did ignore Shinji's ideals by just stating that Riders are meant to die. But Ren immediately notices what's going on when Shinji talks about how he didn't want Zolda to die, but saying Kitaoka mourns over "Zolda"'s death. And Ren...you say there's rare for someone as scummy as Kitaoka, but did you forget Scissors?? “He may be a fool, but he may be a better man than you or I.”

All because of the phone signal's fault. But can we also talk on how Goro, despite serving as Kitaoka's contrast before in morality, agreeing with him to do morally questionable things here to ruin someone's life?

Probably you think that the resolution is too easy for the characters? Like it's too simple that they just have Shinji bump to Kitaoka in some place, therefore seeing Kitaoka as the actual Zolda and Goro being alive. The character part is really conveyed well here tho.

Kitaoka plans to defeat other Riders isn't directly fighting him, which adds a variety on how to defeat Riders besides good-ol TATAKAE. This plan is foiled by Yui who shields him when Dragreder tried to eat him. Don't you think this moment is quite bizzare (will be important later, but as for now with no spoilers) that her presence can repel monsters?

Well yeah, the reason Ren ran away from previous episode, being a Rider in this series means detaching your humanity. And true Ren didn't technically kill Scissors but Volcancer did. Tezuka wants to crack that facade of Ren. And the end of episode showed that side of him somewhat with him not running away again. What do you mean by "Yui and Shinji’s version of him"? But I also have to ask, battle wise (I REALLY want to know about this!!), how did Knight's Final Vent to Raia went out? Did it miss, did it only scrape Raia? etc.? And even if it hit him, how did Raia survive? Is it due to Ren not being able to kill someone that he unconsciously holds back his Final Vent too like Raia?? (but his Final Vent penetrates someone's full body...)

I find it satisfying that Reiko vandalizes Kitaoka's photo....and him being totally in rage :p

Sorry! I have been reading everything, even if I don't reply to everything. Shit is... things are hectic. I'm trying to steer a business into new waters, and it's got some stresses associated with it. A ton of extra work, in very weird ways. I got good moments and bad moments. Sometimes, if it's a page of replies since I've logged on, I can manage a sort-of Reply All post, and that's about it. I do love the participation, though! It's a bright spot right now!

I don't know if I'd describe Goro that way? I think of Goro in a very traditional, There's Someone For Everyone way. Like, I think Goro sees something in Kitaoka that no one else sees, and that's why he's dedicated to him. I think he understands that Kitaoka is... let's just say not a perfect person. I think he's okay with doing something bad if Kitaoka asks him to. There're limits, but I don't think for a second that Goro would choose Shinji's mental well-being/possible monster devourment over Kitaoka's need to eliminate his Rider competition. That seems like an easy choice for Goro. Plus, like, tricking Shinji was hilarious.

I actually thought the resolution was the strongest part of the story. It all really came together in that lobby.

I mean, her having untapped monster powers is a pretty easy guess, so, no, I didn't find it hard to handle. Yui's abilities (when the show remembers to spotlight them!) are so nebulous that I'd be more shocked if the show explicitly stated she couldn't do something at this point.

The Yui and Shinji thing, it's about how they see Ren versus how he wants them to see him. Ren wants everyone to know that he's a killer, that he's going to do whatever it takes, brood brood brood MOTORCYCLE. But, like, Shinji and Yui don't really buy that? Yui thinks he's better than that, and Shinji wants to see him as someone who just needs a friend to show them a better way. I think they want to treat him as Not A Killer, so he'll stop thinking of himself as A Killer.

For Knight's Final Vent, I think you're right, in that I don't think Ren really wanted to kill Quarter. He's just not that guy, which is what a lot of this last story was about to me. I think he held off, didn't really give it his all. Maybe there's more to it than that, but that's how I read it.

There's shades to that, though. I think some of it is personal offense (HOW DARE THEY, etc.) and some of it is that his scheme blew up in his face, but I think there's more going on. You could read more into it, if you want. I think there's an element of them all teaming up against him that hurts him, that he doesn't really like to see people be kind, since that means (by default) he's being unkind. I don't think Kitaoka sees himself as some sort of manipulative asshole. He just thinks of himself as playing the game better than these naive dopes. When cunning people like Reiko and In It To Win It types like Ren are telling him he screwed up, I think that's going to hurt.

Or maybe I just like thinking more about Kitaoka? Could be!

I want to discuss not only the outer part of the episode (like a short opinion about some new characters), but the inner parts too, the trivias that are easily overlooked. I want not only you, but probably also others to read and know those inner parts of those episodes too, the easily overlooked minor informations. I want to share a review of Ryuki by someone else that follows that principle later, I think that's a masterpiece of review, anything someone misses or misunderstand like about Ryuki, that person may catch, but can only be done when your series here is done.

Goro did the right thing when Kitaoka did the wrong thing like to Yukari by comforting her, and then even "babysitting" her until Kitaoka sees that he's being a super dick, not super lawyer. He also later does things against his wish a bit like bringing Yukari again (you cannot bring child to his house) and not immediately coming home when he asks to (forcing Kitaoka to join Goro/Yukari at table). And later Goro stands up to Kitaoka for something less morally questionable than this one.

Oh wait...forgot that she's not normal previously where she can see and sense monsters before, the latter which came handy here where someone else's plan involve direct monster attacks.

Oh about what they think of Ren. He knows deep inside that he's still humane, he's softer than he thinks and cannot kill someone, and that will prevent him from winning the Rider War (which involves killing all other Riders). Knowing that he puts a psychopathic killer act to try detaching the humane side of him until he truly becomes like that. Especially more if it involves about another Rider like Shinji, that if Ren become friends with him he cannot lose and kill him. He may be nice to Yui from the start, if only that using her (monster sense and relation with Shiro) may help him win the Rider War. And Tezuka also doesn't buy that either and also wants to treat him as a not killer, obviously he's a Rider too like Shinji and thus Ren gives the killer vibe to him, but he tries to force himself to open up his true nature, in an attempt to stop the Rider War. A̶n̶d̶ ̶c̶o̶i̶n̶c̶i̶d̶e̶n̶t̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶h̶o̶s̶e̶ ̶3̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶m̶i̶n̶d̶s̶e̶t̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶R̶e̶n̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶w̶'̶s̶ ̶k̶i̶n̶d̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶p̶u̶r̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶r̶a̶c̶t̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶w̶h̶o̶ ̶w̶a̶n̶t̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶i̶g̶h̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶s̶t̶o̶p̶.̶

If you talk about Ren holding back, so that somehow he can hold himself in his Final Vent attack so that the tip of his Sword Vent won't impale his opponent? (Keep in mind his Final Vent is him wrapping himself in Darkwing who transforms into a drill, and using his Sword Vent as a tip to pry them open).

Like my paragraph above, something I wanna see in the discussion is like this; looking deeper into a seemingly minor moment and making sure other people to know about these topics too. I think he does see himself as an asshole where he gloats to Shinji about his abilities and how he frees an evildoer when letting him ride his car in ep. 7 and him mocking Ren in ep. 10 where he thinks his purpose is naive while gloating about caring only for yourself (a common scumbag trait) and be stronger because of that. Also Ren outright calls him an asshole multiple times and he brushes it off, also pointing out him being asshole is none of Ren's business. Like you say for Ren viewing himself as a killer before, Kitaoka also adopts that mindset being a Rider (do whatever it takes, etc.), to an even nastier degree that Ren is sick of him. For the photo though, it's simply Kitaoka not taking rejection well, he's is truly in love with Reiko btw.

I guess I don't know how much Super Lawyer Kitaoka is, like, a coping mechanism Kitaoka created. It's the old "no one thinks they're the villain of the story" aphorism, how folks can justify their own awfulness because they assume that they're good people, so their choices aren't so bad. (Like, Houjou in Agito, that's a dude who sees his actions as natural and correct, so people who disagree with him, or want to punch him in his goddamn face, are inevitably just misguided.) I feel like Kitaoka doesn't love it when a bunch of people are judging him, and while he can derive some joy in feeling superior, there's a core human being inside that maybe feels piled on at the end of that episode. Or, once again, maybe I'm assigning deeper emotions to Kitaoka because I think he's fascinating. A more evidence-supported inference is also totally cool.

As always, thanks for the fun thoughts! Sorry I couldn't give more, but I am top to bottom burned out today. A million shipping and payment questions from subscribers at work, and aborted effort on a new Point Of Sale system. Pretty much need to play Animal Crossing for a hot minute and then collapse into bed.

MASKED RIDER RYUKI EPISODE 15

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ryuki/ryuki15a.png

This one was... fine? Didn't totally click with me, and I'm not sure why that is. Didn't do anything wrong, but, I don't know. Just wasn't feeling this one.

(Also, hey, sorry it's been a second. My stores are closed to the public, which means we've got to do a lot more online orders for shipping and delivery, which is basically a 24/7 job right now. Orders come in at weird hours, everyone's got questions, the whole comics industry is in upheaval, it's a lot. It's a lot. The last few days have been, like, double work. Not a lot of time to even look at the boards.)

The stuff that I thought worked great, that did totally click with me, it's all of the Knight/Quarter stuff. I just, I really like how they're playing Ren's part in the story, as a guy who's trying so hard to be a friendless bad-ass that he's going to get himself killed for no good reason. That thing where he's just picking fights with anyone so that he can turn off the part of his brain that wants to be kind, that wants to have friends, to isolate and punish himself into becoming the person who can kill other Riders, I love that story. It's moody without being bleak, it's playing around with the Dark Hero trope, and it creates a very unpredictable version of Ren. I kind-of love how you can't tell what dumb/weird/mean/sad thing he's going to do next.

It helps that Tezuka's a big part of Ren's story. I love how he's, like, Ren's sponsor, trying to get him to quit being Kamen Rider I'm A Loner Dottie A Rebel and start being a healthy person who might actually survive these Rider battles. And it's, man, it's not like Tezuka has to be that clever! Ren sincerely just needs someone to talk to, and Tezuka's a guy who gets the stakes of what's going on, works in the same field as Ren (murdering monsters, an essential business), and has an insistence that never becomes too forceful. It's like water, smoothing stone over time. Tezuka just needs to keep letting Ren know that someone cares about him, and sees the lies he's telling himself, and it feels like a nicely humane solution to Ren's... just his whole Being Ren thing. (Dude is just a bundle of self-destructive tendencies and unprocessed grief.) I like it, all of the Knight/Quarter stuff. It's a richly dramatic storyline.

The main Ryuki one for this episode, though, yeah, just not feeling it. And, y'know, I love me some Ex-Aid, so a bunch of gamers getting killed thanks to the machinations of Kamen Rider Poor Man's Genm, seems like it should be right up my alley. Especially with the whole text of their battles being This Is Just Like What's Happening With The Masked Riders. (Thank you, Yui! Figured that one out on my own!) On paper, it all works. It's thematically resonant, and it echoes one of my favorite Kamen Rider series. But I thought it was fine, nothing more. Not bad, not at all, but I didn't really care much about what was happening, the case Shinji and Yui were investigating. (Also, Yui gets a job at ORE, because this show has two workplaces when it should really only have one. Clunky storytelling, but at least Yui's more in the mix.) The smarmy gamer assholes don't make much more of an impression than the beginning of this sentence, so I didn't really care why they were killing themselves. It's cool that there's a new Rider, and the fight between Ryuki and Poor Man's Genm was neat (I love that Poor Man's Genm has his driver in his shoulder, that's super unique), but the escalation in this story didn't feel that solid to me. I guess I mostly didn't care if a bunch of nerds want to have a Mortal Kombat fight club or whatever. The stakes, I didn't really feel into them. It was an alright story but, beyond that final fight with Ryuki and Poor Man's Genm, I was mostly checked out of it.

It's really the Ren/Tezuka stuff that popped this time out. They've got an undeniably compelling dynamic. More of them, please!

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ryuki/ryuki15b.png