All of this. At least, The Room is a pure stand-alone movie that takes place in its own little universe.

Last I checked, saying "Star Wars was killed by the prequels" was objectively wrong, considering it's still around, especially when you're acknowledging the popularity of Clone Wars right there. Just because you think it, doesn't make it "obvious". And George Lucas has been "milking" it since it began, there's a reason he took a cut of merchandise sales back from Star Wars. It's one of the reasons people saying Disney are making films "for the money" just makes me laugh - Star Wars has always been about making big toy bucks.

Ah yes, a piss poor film... with 91% on Rotten Tomatoes, 7.1 on Imdb, greatly enjoyed by many people that aren't you. Seems legit. And if you really think it adds nothing to the franchise, you obviously missed all the stuff with the Jedi backstory, or the evolution of Luke's character. Not to mention all the sequel characters who the movie's actually about.

Look, you can hate TLJ all you want, fine, for whatever reasons. But saying it killed Star Wars is just whining that because you didn't like it, no-one else is allowed to and anything else they make is just "money grabbing".

Not at first. George Lucas expected it to flop. He only got toy sales because Fox also expected it to flop so George was like why not keep the toy rights if Fox doesn't want them? And about killing franchises, just because something is still around doesn't mean it's a thriving entity. For example Voltron never truly went away. It's had many different toy and series incarnation from the original Japanese anime GoLion and Dairugger to it's most recent incarnation on Netflix. Its toy license has hopped around from Bandai to Mattel to Playmates. It peaked in 1984-1985 and quickly became overshaddowed by Transformers and later Power Rangers. It's effectively a dead franchise. Other examples include The Jetsons and The Flintstones. Two well known Hanna-Barbara properties (now owned by Warner Bros.) that have never left the public eye but are nevertheless dead franchises that don't appear anywhere in entertainment besides niche projects. Star Wars in terms of a narrative died with Attack of the Clones. The films financially have diminished since Solo. Toy sales are also down. If Disney doesn't do something the franchise could face obscurity. That's what death of a franchise means. It doesn't mean it disappears. It means it stops being a cash cow, so merchandising diminishes.



44% audience score. If the film in a franchise doesn't connect with audience then it fails to add to the franchise. Narratively it did nothing either.


I never said TLJ killed Star Wars. Again look at the first paragraph of this response to you. Again I state you are speaking purely based on emotions.

Yes because absolutely everyone who ever sees a movie immediately gets online and gives it a score.

Over a billion with a "B" dollars worldwide gross revenue though... yeah that's a clear indication it didn't connect with audiences.

(Also the only movie since Solo was Solo and they made the extremely stupid decision to release right after TLJ - which was still showing in a good number of theaters- and right up against Infinity War so that *may* have something to do with Solo's underperfomance, but that's just me.)

Cope.

People wanted to see the follow up to Force Awakens. It naturally was going to make a ton of money. That doesn’t mean it would be well received. The Transformers films makes money hand over fist yet gets terrible critic and audience reception. But there was one too many bad films in the franchise and people stopped caring. Same could happen to Star Wars.

Exactly.

I am thoroughly convinced that most children today think the Flintstones have only ever been cereal mascots like Tony the Tiger or Lucky the Leprechaun.

*Sees Mandalorian trailer*
Congratulations Mr. Mandalorian you now have my money. That said, unleash thy merch. :lolol

You may not, but others have, *plus* you seem to think Star Wars is somehow already dead. But go ahead, continue thinking you've destroyed me with "facts" and "logic".

Flintstones and Jetsons are nowhere near on the scale of Star Wars, it's a moot comparison. "In the public eye" is purely as something ancient. They're shows remembered mainly for nostalgia value, rather than having continuing relevence to the modern day. No-one under the age of about 40 treats the Flintstones as anything but quaint nostalgia (or maybe a Siivagunner joke or comic book) but Star Wars has always been popular. Same with Voltron, except it got brought back. Literally no-one my age was aware of Voltron except maybe mecha fans until the netflix show - even I only had a vague idea of what it was. I lived through the time you said Star Wars was "dead" as a teen, and I'm telling you that you're mistaken. Just because you don't like ROTS and the sequls, doesn't mean the films are narratively dead. Hell, I'm not even sure what you mean by that.

And if you really think Star Wars is going to head to obscurity... really? Ewan McGregor returning has gotten nothing but popular response, same with the Mandalorian. Cartoon fans are excited for Clone Wars Series 7. Star Wars toys are easily findable on toy shelves over here. The fact this threas is active again is proof of some popularity still existant (instad of it being full of people going "they're still making these, huh?) Again, just because you seem to dislike it doesn't mean it's dying. And as Tali said, TLJ made 1.3 billion dollars. That's not just "people wanted to see TFA2" money, because if it had sucked, people wouldn't have bothered seeing it (See Godzilla 2 for example).


Almost like certain groups of people are liable to spam something with dislikes if it features women and/or minorities. Plus, people are more likely to complain than praise on these websites.

Not dead but is dying. Toy sales are down. There's no denying that. If Disney isn't careful it could be completely dead after Rise of Skywalker debuts.


*sequels. I see. You are quite young. Probably not even an adult yet. I can see why you argue with emotion. I remember that phase. Narratively dead is when a franchise paints itself into a corner and doesn't know what story to tell or how to fit it into the overall narrative or when a story is so dull fans lose interest and things are retconned to what the audience might like. By that point you might as well reboot some if not the whole fictional universe.



Billy Dee Williams, Carrie Fisher, James Earl Jones in Empire Strikes Back. But Yeah keep telling yourself it's about "bigotry."

Yo, my guy, wrong fandom. The Vulcans are in Star Trek, you can drop the complete and utter condescension about emotions.
Especially when your whole argument is based around what you feel
and you’re ignoring literally any evidence to the contrary.
Which, I mean, not surprising. People who screech about “facts not feels” literally always do that.

Anyways Star Wars is still going strong, in basically all regards. I’m hyped for the next episode, and basically everything else that’s coming out soon.

How bout everyone stops arguing in circles here.

Sorry, but I had to step in...

I come from an era where RotJ was still a hit, and where people were hyped by a new Star Wars movie : TPM.

We were in awe when watching the Podracer race or the fight against Darth Maul...We also hated Jar Jar Binks and thought that Yoda looked like shit.

The prequels weren't all that good but they narratively told you a story.
Even if they were bad, merchs and goodies were going full speed because it was Star Wars, and you had Lucasart with the amazing Dark Force games.

The EU made Star Wars more than a story, it was a legend, a universe where you could be someone in this huge place, where awesome stories and awesome characters were created.

Disney killed all that because "meh"...Disney and Kat Kennedy killed it all because they wanted to create their own Extended Universe.

They did an Episode VII that was good with JJ Abrams but some people thought that something was wrong, people complained that it was too similar to A New Hope.

Episode VII was kind of telling you a story, Luke Skywalker was gone, the New Republic is now a resistance because the Nazis stroke again....

I defended the movie a lot because even if things were similar to A New Hope or the Phantom Menace, the movie told you something different.

But...Episode VIII was just utter trash, not because of Luke Skywalker, but how the movie was constructed, what Ryan Johnson with Kathleen Kennedy's approval was trying to do.

I can't believe that Johnson was a Star Wars fan with the way he butchered the universe.

Leia going full Mary Poppins is stupid.

The story with the fuel is stupid aswell, that pursuit dragged for nearly an hour and to what end? To see someone you know nothing about that acted like an asshole in front of the viewer sacrifice herself to save the resistance.
It was litteraly the BattleStar Galactica movie but in worse

I like some parts in this movie, like what happened in Canto Bight, the fight against the preatorian guard or even seeing Luke.

But GOSH, Luke HIMSELF was Out of Character! The guy saved someone that was well beyong saving by bringing back to the light, and a single touch of darkness in his Nephew and he goes batshit insane.
That's not how the Luke we knew from the EU acted.

I would have preferred to see Ben Solo being seduced by some Dark force that would explain why Luke would lose his renewed Jedi Order than turning partially to the Dark Side just because that kid was afraid of getting killed! ( like a Force Projection of Palpatine/Snoke or whatever, Marka Ragnos)

A lot of things are wrong in this movie and that's not because Luke died that I'm pissed at Lucasfilm/Disney.

Rogue One was good, how could they failed a numbered episode?

Episode 7 was a hit, whatever what people can say, because merchs and goodies sold out. But that's not the case starting with Episode 8.

You can still find old Black Series figures from Episode 8 at discount, and they are NOT selling, the Solo figures are barely selling aswell. And Tamashii Nations slowed down the releases of Star Wars figures.
They also have NO new prototype to present.

Medicom with the Mafex Line dropped the ball, they're not doing anymore Star Wars action figures.

The new extended Universe is barely keeping the franchise alive because only the Thrawn stories or even the Vader stories are working.

The Episode IX trailer had a false hype with that "Dark Rey" shit.
That goddamn trailer made you watch more than 1 minute of old episodes while telling you strictly NOTHING about the movie.

I'm holding my judgement about Episode IX but seeing that its foundation is Episode HATE it will need more than 2 hours to repair the damage done by that garbage.

I was a huge Star Wars fan, but knowing that it's Kat Kennedy at the head of Lucasfilm is not reassuring to me, she needs to be gone.
Having an Obi Wan Kenobi series? Great, people asked for it...riiight, but are you really interested to know what Kenobi did during Episode 3 and 4 while already knowing that he kills Maul for good? What's the point? We don't need to know or to be told everything or else you'll just hurt the original narrative.

You would have told me that there was a series like this years ago, I would have been happy, but nowadays I'm not.

The Mandalorian? Heh, I know nothing of it, but knowing that Favreau is behind it....Meh no thanks, I'll stick with Boba Fett still being alive by being clever.

Star Wars is at a semi dead state, and if Episode IX is as bad as VIII, it will kill Star Wars for good.

Sorry for this rant.


This was emotional, and we are all Star Wars fans, all of our opinion matters because they can elevate the level of the debate. But there are bound to be some walls when the Sequels didn't work for the oldies.

i GUARANTEE if we'd had the Internet in 1980 we'd be seeing the same sort of complaints about Empire that we see about The Last Jedi.

How.

Doubtful. Public forum still existed via print and word of mouth. Plus merchandise sales indicates it was well received. And if people truly objected to a tough woman and a black man in position of power (be it good or evil), then A New Hope would have bombed at the box office like Fox predicted. Outside the internet I run into tons of people that adore the original trilogy, young and old, but do not care for this Disney trilogy so far. A lot of that had to do with The Last Jedi.

Though I am not in favor of arguing by emotion, this is how someone should conduct themselves when arguing based on emotions. State what they like or dislike about how the franchise is being handled and why. They don't call anyone names or attempt to argue against facts with emotions, just states how they feel about the current situation with the franchise. Even if this person was arguing in favor of Disney I'd still respect it.

Toy Sales are going down across the board due to a bunch of factors. Rise of Skywalker would have to bomb completely to even harm Star Wars, and even then we'll still have the Disney+ shows guaranteed to keep momentum going for a while. But you could say that about any franchise.


Thanks Dexilay for already replying to this bit for me. But while I'm sure you think you sound like some kind of wise Jedi Master, you just come across as a condescending tool. Doesn't matter how young I am, that doesn't somehow make me less right than you.


Not a fair comparison to having Rey, Poe and Finn being front stage (especially when I can still remember "StOrMtRoOpErS aReNt BlAcK" discourse from 2015), plus a much wider diversity in background characters. Plus, this.

ALSO
http://www.acriticalhit.com/fans-rea...kes-back-1980/
Here's a source of some letters, including a fan review that proves Empire wasn't so beloved when it came out. So yes, we can basically guarantee that the same arguments would have happened.

Anyway, I'm done. There's no winning with this, so I'm just gonna go and be positive about a film instead of sulking.

TLJ actually had more of a reason to be exceedingly scrutinized thanks to having more legacy behind it than Empire.

Take Snoke for instance. You didn’t need to know about where the emperor came from because he was the emperor. That told you enough. You could theorycraft where he came from but with nothing shown about the rise of the empire yet, there’s nothing to really get wrong in writing him.

Snoke just exists with no explanation of where he was during the GCW beyond a couple JJ Mystery Box lines about being around possibly during it. And because we saw the GCW, we want to know what happened. We want to know who the heck this guy is. And then he just gets cut in half with no ceremony because apparently he doesn’t matter anymore and you shouldn’t care about killing the big bad two acts in to a three act story. Which is far as writing is concerned, is a complete Richard relocation. That is to say, a dick move.

I have so much hatred toward Ryan Johnson and Episode 8 that it’s difficult to be positive with Episode 9. JJ Abrams, that I respect a lot, said that 9 would answer all the questions we had... it’s coming from a guy who worked on Lost.

All in all I think it was a bad idea to have different directors for each episode...

I doubt it since The Empire Strikes Back was a huge hit and was well liked from the first movie from critics, fans and general movie goers.

Or at least a clear vision with competent direction.

Sadly, I think I've been at the point for many, many long years now where I just genuinely can't be hype up for Star Wars at all anymore. Star Wars is probably the biggest and most over saturated franchise for decades. After Episode III ended, I felt like the series was over, and I was done with the series. When I see something new Star Wars, I feel sick in my stomach.

I do want to be hype up for the Disney+ shows, but I have a feeling that they probably won't be good given how mediocre Disney has been in recent history. I didn't like TFA and TLJ because they both have poor stories in my opinion.

The OT could get away with making stuff up as they went along because it was the only plot to contend with. Even with all the crap in the prequels, Lucas knew what he wanted each part to do from the start, he had an end goal.

There is no end goal with the Disney sequels. AOTC sucks but you know by the end that the next film will be about Anakin’s disobedience that was exemplified with marrying Padmé and his anger management issues as seen with his massacre of innocent women and children over a deeply personal offense. No one has any clue what TROS will do because TLJ killed so many potential plot threads and left it with “Everyone you loved from the OT is dead except for the one person who probably should have died in this film given what happened IRL, the Empire functionally was never destroyed, the New Republic is dead save for a ship full of 20 people.” Effectively everything is back to square one. Not just any square one either, the square one from the end of Revenge of the Sith. The entire OT has been invalidated and the only possible fix would be even more freaking stupid, a complete retcon of the sequels.


Thanks Disney, you could’ve just adapted the Yuuzhan Vong War and saved us the trouble of all this crap.

Return of the Jedi is the one that had the closest thing to a negative reception of the original trilogy. Empire was very well-received when it came out and you can old reviews for it back in 1980 from newspapers.

As I thought.

Also a joke about the reception of ROTJ, “7/10, too many Ewoks.”

Hu, Episode 6 was badly received? ._.

Return of the Jedi did get mixed reviews at the time. Probably because it didn't live up to the first two movies at the time.

I don't think I could watch anything Disney puts out Star Wars related anymore. They've shown that they are incapable of handling the franchise properly. Honestly Disney should just trade Lucasfilm to Universal in exchange for the Incredible Hulk and Marvel theme park rights east of the Mississippi river. I am not sure if Universal Studios would be an improvement on Star Wars, but I feel they would understand the material better than Disney. Plus Marvel would be one step closer to being whole.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFpTYCfLiIs&t=0s
Disney just made the master politician schemer of Sheev Palpatine into an incompetent dolt who couldn’t run the empire without the help of some new character we never heard of.

Classy.

I just watched that this morning. Sickening. This and what I've read from Bob Iger about how Disney screwed over George Lucas has me never wanting to watch or consume any Star Wars related material so long as Disney is involved.

Wait, Tokunation has a Star Wars thread?!? My love for this site has increase.

Is that the comic thing?

Please see:

https://twitter.com/EsserZed/status/1179073960081838082

https://twitter.com/EsserZed/status/1179257900566482946

Yeah - of course a butthurt, diehard "classic" Star Wars-fan took things massively out of context to stir up fake outrage and generate clicks :rolleyes

I won’t lie, it’s always kinda hilarious to me when people do this and idiots eat it up. Cause yeah having read that issue, the tweets are right, not that video.

I mean, it worked, it got people mad here apparently. So mad they didn't bother to check context for themselves.

Final trailer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qn_spdM5Zg&t=29s

The trailer: "The Saga will End"
Me: If you say so movie. We all know that Disney will rush out Episode X soon.

Space horse cavalry with BB8 joining in the charge. Why.

Also it’s still really stupid that the Death Star II is going to be a location here. You know, since the thing was completely atomized.

Yeah, it's crap like this among other things is pretty much why I stop reading the novels of the Disney canon and will not watch anything in the franchise under them. I'm pretty much sticking with the six films, two Clone Wars cartoons (the 2003 series a bit more than the other), and the original EU.