I was looking forward to seeing your thoughts on the finale. It's probably the most controversial ending for a Rider series with the reset and all. It's at least the early Heisei version of Philip's fate from W in terms of love it/hate it reactions.

Can't wait to read your thoughts on the movie, where you finally get to meet my favorite non-Big Four Rider.

Ryuki's was the first time ever I saw a Reset Ending I believe, which at the time was a cool and novel idea to me. Over the years, I can totally see though how this sort of ending could act as a cop-out/get out of the jail free card writers use to do whatever the hell they want with the plot and characters, instead of picking between the tough choices of uncompromisingly bleak ending or unrealistically happy one.

I had an argument when someone told me "you loved that ending in Ryuki, which doesn't make sense that you hate similar kind of ending in [insert show/comic name here]", but yeah, context and execution matter. A couple others in this thread already conveyed how I feel about this ending really well, but I'll just add that it's just really nice to see Tezuka, Ren, Kitaoka (tho I guess he's still going to die soon in any case), and most importantly, a happy, not bleeding and not dying Shinji, going about their regular lives, to cap off the series. Sometimes it's just really about how invested you are in the characters.

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Just watched! Dinner's on the way, and then after that, uh... I got thoughts!

Yeah, I'm willing to forgive a lot in Ryuki because of how much I love these characters. Like, the knee-jerk of them all being alive is gratitude and relief. It's only after that where I started to dig into those feelings, try and figure out if there was more to it than caring so much that I wanted them back no matter what, and y'know, how that might've defeated the purpose of the series. It's complicated, but there's no denying that I'm happy they're all alive.

MASKED RIDER RYUKI - EPISODE FINAL MOVIE

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Femme's a pretty interesting character. She's a mix of a few different established characters (Kitaoka's cunning, Ren's dedication to saving a loved one, a decent chunk of the Knight costume and weaponry, Reiko's assertiveness), but she manages to feel wholly original and also like a missing piece from Ryuki.

Well, uh, here it is! Miho and Shinji have excellent chemistry, and their scenes are when the film's at its best. Her subtlety and deceptions play great off of his gullibility and quick temper. His kindness and generosity spark against her distrusting, guarded nature. They're total opposites, but some terrific acting makes their antagonism realistically melt into respect and romance.

I'm not sure Kamen Rider does a lot of real romances? There's definitely chaste crushes, and a hospital wing's worth of women suffering from Endangered Girlfriend Syndrome, but actual dates, sexual chemistry, that shit is largely ignored. Not by everyone, though. I feel like I could subconsciously tell when Inoue wrote an episode of Ryuki because the show got 23% more horny. Men started to get more aggressive, women started to get more flirty, everyone started acting like the young people they are. It's the same thing in this movie, where immediately Shinji is getting eyerolls from Reiko over how protective he gets about Miho. And, like, yes, gorgeous. But there's some really great chemistry between them. They cast great on Miho, because I completely got what the two of them saw in each other, and that is invaluable when you've got to make her death matter in under an hour.

And, yeah, she dies. Romances like Miho and Shinji may not be a staple, but Doomed Romances sure as shit are. As soon as she started to fall for Shinji, really care about him, the axe was going to fall on her. It's a shame, but this is a one-off story, so this was all she was going to get anyway. As it was, I was thrilled that so much of this story, ostensibly about concluding the Ryuki story in a movie, was given over to the Miho/Shinji stuff. I definitely wish it had just been that, it's the best part of this movie, but I still enjoyed it.

The rest of the movie, though...

It's a real weird idea, to hand the secondary writer the reins to the movie, to let them take a run at wrapping up Ryuki. If I were Kobayashi, I don't know how much I'd love that? I get that, for production reasons, it was probably necessary to have an A/B team for TV versus special projects, but letting someone else do something called Episode Final? Gotta be some complicated emotions for Kobayashi on that one.

What's in this movie... it's fine. It's a movie that lacks the infuriating lows of the TV ending, but misses out on the transcendent highs. It's all middle.

The big improvement is the Mirror World stuff. It's still not the best thing ever, but it's coherent in a way that the TV show wasn't. Having young Yui make a deal with a Mirror Yui for a second chance at life, it's a much stronger way into that story. It's got a dark fairytale feel to it, with a child escaping to a world of fun before having to make a deal with an otherworldly force to return home. It also makes Yui culpable, creating a less-victimized aspect to her performance, more guilty than terrified. She has a role beyond being a damsel, and her choices stay hers for the duration of the movie. It's a way stronger ending for Yui than the TV show allowed her.

Everything else manages to feel a little more thought through, with a variety of quick explanations covering the weird lapses in storytelling from the show. It's not a ton of time spent to bring it up to the level of This Isn't Frustrating, which actually makes the TV show's version more frustrating. It doesn't seem, based on this movie, that it would've taken so much work to get the Mirror World stuff working on the show. Super disappointing, in retrospect.

But, while they could drag the floor up, they also lowered the ceiling. Everything that happens in the story is fairly predictable, and plays like a less-imaginative version of Ryuki. Characters are slowly whittled down, an Evil Version of Shinji is one of the final bosses (mirrors!), and there's a focus on just Ren versus Shinji at the end. It's sort-of what you'd expect of a show about mirrors and monsters (the black version of Dragreder is called Dragblacker, though, which is so exquisitely dumb that I need to pay it homage), which means it doesn't have the nuance or idiostyncratic touches of the TV finale. Kitaoka just leaves to go to lunch with Reiko, despite his illness. Asakura's final battle is with Miho, and he's mostly a victim of the new Big Bad, Ryuga. The mirror version of Shinji, it's a cool visual that 100% doesn't thematically fit this show. Like, what is Ryuga supposed to represent about Shinji's story? He's just evil, and wants to win the Rider Battle. Why? What does that have to do with the themes of sacrifice, of self-examination? The stuff that gets changed about the ending to Ryuki, it's all plot, no heart. It's constructive without being illuminating.

And that makes the process of watching this movie very fun for stretches (RomKamen Rider!), but it's a largely hollow endeavor. It's a fun story that cleans up the messiness of the TV show, but that messiness is what made it memorable. This one? I'll remember Femme (although, Jesus, why not just call her Kamen Rider Girl and be done with it), and that's probably all.

Oh! I'll also remember this as a STEALTH MOVIE WAR WITH LEGEND RIDERS!

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Is that all of them? I think I got them all. When Shinji goes to that second restaurant to meet Miho, I thought the waiter might be Shouichi, and it was. And then Mana showed up! And all of Team G3! It was such a pleasant surprise!

Fun flick, and a nice dessert after the meal of Ryuki.

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Nope!

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Missed Gills! Sorry, Gills! Thank you, Wiki! I actually managed to catch all of the others on my own, yay me.

When I watched this I didn't quite catch Mana and Shouichi somehow; but I had to super double take at the G3 team, because I'd recognise them no matter what and I felt like I had to check my eyes. Funnily enough, I had the same reaction to Takeshi Hongou in Agito's movie! I'm sure if Kuuga had a movie he'd be not-teaming up with Kikaider and Momoranger.


As for the actual movie, uh... gestures vaguely to what you said and mumbles out a 'yeah'. That's about right. I'd agree with that generally. Liked Femme, pretty shit what happened to her; everything else definitely happened. It's one of those movies that left me with a big ol' feeling of nothing.

Oh yeah the weird actor cameos this was a thing for early Heisei movies. But my thoughts on the finale it's okay I guess I much prefer Episode Final events if I were to be totally honest. And It all comes down to the reset the show kept touting about how there could only be 1 Rider and you that if you don't fight you won't survive completely erasing it was just off. It feels unearned basically it comes out of nowhere and it undoes all the hardships and growth of everyone. Like everything else the atmosphere,the cinematography, and emotions are great but it ultimatly feels pointless. In compairson Episode Final felt tighther I will agree it dosen't hit as high as the show but it felt more natural, everything resolves with the tragedy of Yui death, Shiro defeat and all but Shinji and Ren being left and it looks like they don't have much time left as the monster begins to invade the real world. There a sense finality to it. Plus I personally headcanon that the version of Ryuki we see in future crossovers is the one from Episode Final. It just makes sensd to me since there a chance he does survive since he never got that wound and bleed death.

It's technically proficient, but sort-of soulless. Real weird outcome, considering this is an Inoue version of ending Ryuki, and I really expected it to be more insane?

That said, making Shinji's original sin in Yui's fate that he stayed inside one day when he was a kid, and that that choice haunts Shinji so much he'd let an evil Shinji possess him and win the Rider Battles... *chef's kiss*. That is prime cut Inoue.

Yeah, I feel like there's going to be a split on which is better, the movie ending or the TV ending. The movie's less frustrating, and that's going to be of (understandable!) value to a lot of fans.

One of the less well-known features of the Inoue Zone!

But yeah, Episode Final. Not a great movie! Also paradoxically high on my hypothetical list of favorite Rider films! Mostly due to nostalgia, I think. To this day, I love the direction of it. It's absolutely gorgeous. But the narrative, while thankfully not offensively bad, is never something I've really liked all that much. Whenever people say they prefer it over the TV ending, I almost do a double take as someone who values stories largely in terms of themes and raw emotions. The more literal improvements in stuff like how the Mirror World plot is handled don't do a whole lot for me when it feels like the movie is doing so little to provide meaningful closure to what the show was about. There's such a world of difference between Shinji and Ren's last conversation on TV, and the ending of the movie, you know? I also value structure and coherence, so I kind of get it, but if being messy is the price the TV show pays to be way more poignant, so be it.

Also, now that you're done with everything Ryuki, I have to ask: did it bother you the TV series didn't actually have 13 Riders?

Wh-- least known part?! I swear it's like his main thing! It makes up at least 90% of Kiva!

Huh, I... I honestly totally forgot Kiva existed while I was writing that somehow.

If only I could...

I don't know nothing about Kiva other than it's The Vampire One, and I should hope that The Vampire One is at least moderately sexy.

I'll probably touch on it in the series overview (tomorrow at this point, had to watch that Parks and Rec special which killed, those kids still got it), but, yeah. It's a letdown. For a variety of reasons: some plot deficiencies, some expectation-related. It's not a fatal flaw, but part of a larger trend of sloppiness.

Verde, Femme and Ryuga died on the way back to their home planet :(

It... this isn't something I'd put in the overview, since it references another series, but it's similar to how the amount of Zodiarts in Fourze wasn't paced super great. They gave themselves a hard number, plot-wise, in-show, and then they forgot how many episodes it would take to establish that number of characters onscreen. So you get, in Fourze, this rush of new lieutenants late in the run because there's only so many episodes left until the end of the series. You can almost feel the tension of the writing team to cram in some predetermined amount of characters.

Ryuki has a similar thing, where there's a middle section of real character-driven storytelling, an interest in doing more with the superb cast they've got, and then it's like Why Did You Keep Saying Thirteen If You Didn't Have Ideas For Thirteen.

Pacing out these season-long stories... it's got to be the hardest part of writing these shows. It's usually the most visible problem on less-good iterations.

I think it's especially weird to me because... while I just joked about it, the nature of the Rider Battle is such that you could easily say some other Riders died before Scissors, or maybe even by Asakura off-screen. It might come off as a little odd, especially when part of the excitement in the moment is seeing a lot of new Riders turn up... but you've made specials and movies for these guys! It's okay!

Though, like, admittedly; while Verde and Femme are isolated enough for that idea, it'd definitely stick out as pretty weird for "by the way, uh, Mirror World Evil Shinji is something that existed, and he's dead now". Frankly it's what made it especially weird for me when he turned up in the 13 Riders Special; he's treated as just another random Rider when like-- no! He's so clearly visually linked to Ryuki, that's- weird! You can't just not comment on it!


I do want to say though, just while it's on my mind and while I remember that I said earlier I wanted to talk about it later: Alternative not being classed officially as a Rider is fine to me because, well, in the context of his own series, that is very explicitly the case. In terms of other definitions including franchise-wide ones, scientist who creates his own system based on evil to fight for justice and the sake of the world? That's... uh... the plot of Build, actually, and I think Sento'd be pretty happy to talk things out with Kamen Rider Alternative. But by Ryuki's definition of what a Kamen Rider is, it makes sense to me that he's not considered one. ... even if he is one of three masked heroes that gets their own bike.

It's something I've thought a little about, because you have such a built-in solution of starting the series through Shinji's eyes, when the Rider Battles have already been running. We see Shinji get a Card Deck and form a Contract, but him and Asakura are the only ones. Everyone else, who knows how long they've been active, who they've fought? One line of dialogue of Shibaura saying he'd killed a few Riders, or Tezuka lamenting that he couldn't save X amount of other Riders, boom, sewn up. Super weird to have that sitting right there and never use it.

Yeah, I think Alternative and Tackle get to exist as Rider-adjacent because Toei knows how much doing so will infuriate fans, keep them engaged. I certainly enjoy riling people up on occasion, so I can't really fault them for it.

Miho is still possibly my favorite female Rider. It's a real toss-up between her and Marika. that's about 50% the strength of the character and 50% the small pool of competitors.

Anyway, now that you've gotten through everything, time to discuss the Great Unifying Ryuki Fan Theory. It's been a reasonably popular piece of fanon over the years that Episode Final and 13 Riders are in continuity with the TV show as two (or 2.5, counting the alternate ending of 13 Riders) of Shiro's previous failed attempts to save Yui that got Time Vented. The series itself is the latest attempt and Shiro's acceptance of Yui's death at the end means that the final time reset was, indeed, the final reset.

Good work as always. Now, OPEN YOUR EYES FOR THE NEXT FAIZ.

Sometimes I think about how my favourite female Rider and the one I felt got the most development and the most complete story arc was... Mayu using Mage in Wizard, and that kinda makes me contemplate a lot about female riders in this franchise.

Miho's great! I'm a sucker for con-artists who reform, I love those stories, so she's got a huge lead on everyone else.

I haven't watched enough shows to see other female Riders, so I can't speak to Valkyrie, and I didn't fully understand the context of Kiva-la in the Decade/Double movie.

Marika... I just really didn't like how so much of her character became about assisting the rise of powerful men. Her and Mai, their stories got real tricky for me in the end because of stuff like that.

I think my favorite female Rider's got to be Genius Gamer N herself, Ride-Player Nico. She's fantastic, as long as you can discount her brief dalliance with Denim Harry Potter. It's her few flaws that make her so heroic.

That's a neat theory! I'd have a hard time putting the movie as anything other the final round, though, since Shiro seems to pretty definitively die in the movie. He's a narrator for 13 Riders, and he opts out of the story in the TV show.

I mean, I don't have a need in my brain to get them to line up, I'm okay looking at them as three separate stories starring the same actors, but it's cool if other people need to chart it out. Fandoms are awesome!

Aw, thanks! I still got a series overview I want to do (this show definitely feels like it needs one) and a self-indulgent (what's the difference?) post-script. Then a few days off, then Faiz.

There have been times I've wanted to recommend Kamen Rider to friends, but they've got hard rules about stories needing to feature women in narratively useful ways (good rules!), and it's like... Amazons? Maybe? Fourze, to a decent if still non-major degree? (Like, Nadeshiko debuting to cutie-pie poses and butt bumps, what the hell Fourze.) It's a huge flaw in this franchise, the seeming reluctance to center stories on women's journeys. Like, if/when they announce a year-long Kamen Rider series with a woman as the primary Rider, I am going to lose my shit.

You really are just goin, like my god man, I wish I had this level of focus/dedication.



Oh man I can't agree with this more, at least we'll always have Nico (and Poppy?). I will never fully understand why kamen rider seems so afraid of women riders.

It's helpful to not have an OFF button in your brain for this stuff! It's also a huge problem!

Poppy's great, I love that actor, but even her story focuses on stereotypically maternal aspects (she's Kuroto's mom, after all) and her Rider combat is similar to Nadeshiko's. She's definitely the female character who worries about the boys.

Like, I don't want to harp on it, but even bad-ass trickster Miho had to have a scene where she's a good cook, a way of saying to the audience Don't Worry She'll Make A Good Wife. Just, gender roles! Gender expectations! Total blindspots for this franchise!

I actually got to watch Episode Final as a child too, because I saw a big DVD for it while going out once, and was like 'Huh?? Final Episode? But this has characters on the cover I've never seen before??'. I watched it and I'm certain I was more confused than anything else. I probably liked it!

Anyhow, the movie itself is a big point of nostalgia for me because of that, and Ryuki and Ryuga's fistfight at the end is a really memorable action sequence for me. I couldn't really speak on whether it is 'good' or not (probably isn't!), but it's a fun little higher-budget spectacle of the show, which I know describes all the Rider movies, but hey.

Gaim absolutely did dirty by Yoko, but I chose to remember the good times. I also just think that Minami Tsukui is awesome and that shades some of my views on the character.

I'll admit, I totally forgot about Nico. She's one of my favorite supporting characters on Ex-Aid, but I tend to think of her as a civilian first and foremost. Kamen Riding really isn't her main thing and even when she does it she's more of a... well, you'll know what Riotroopers are in about 4-5 weeks.

Ah, don't rush it. And yes, a overview is worth the time. This was a game-changer for the franchise by expanding on what little rider vs rider conflict we had in Agito and focusing on that. It was basically what if a baker baked a loaf of bread called Kamen Rider but mixed Highlander, Pokemon, Yugioh, and Battle Royale in the batter before putting it inside an oven.

That's awesome! I can't imagine what it would be like to find something like that in the wild, zero context for how it fits into the overall story. (As it is, this seems like an insane movie to release four months before the series ended.)

And it's worth noting that the fights are way cooler than the TV series. There's more movement to the camera, a lot more dimensionality. Most fights have way more combatants. And, yeah, this is similar to a lot of Rider movies, but this was probably one of the first A Whole Bunch Of Riders movies, so it's pretty special!

Like, she's still a boss for 90% of that show. I can see why she'd rank highly for you!

Yeah, boy, a lot of ingredients in this one. Just... not mixed super great? Also, there's one key ingredient to this show that I'm not sure I've seen people mention, and it's maybe a controversial one. (Like, I don't know if folks'll agree with me on it.) We'll see!

Also, me starting Faiz isn't feeling rushed, it's excitement. I need a few days to clear out the Ryuki, make room for the Faiz, but otherwise I just always want to be watching Kamen Rider.

I'm reviewing the episode 50 first, I don't give a fuck if it's too late! :p

It probably stems from your bias to Ryuki Survive to like Knight Survive's bike better.... I have to say I like Dragranzer better. His transformation is just more interesting where Dragranzer folds himself, somehow gaining a shape plausible for a bulky bike. Rather than Darkraider which motorcycle is just it's whole wingspan, with the back side of the wing/bike heightened a bit. Forgot to say this before, but Dragranzer's bike is based off on Honda X4. The only thing I truly hate for Ryuki Survive is the "whiskers", his body suit is also probably worse than base Ryuki's but it's not much of a big deal to me.

Yeah, this is the moment I talked about when I'm talking about how 13 Riders' use of handing Decks to others are consistent to the series, but I obviously didn't spoil to you about Goro doing it... (other than that, there's also Odin using many different puppets to henshin and fight for Shiro) so it still did surprise you right? :p Kitaoka's definitely responsible in ep. 28 in the war reset, and he wasn't only failed to finish Ouja, but also failed to date Reiko.

Talking about the battles, Zolda gets completely finished there, with both Goro and Magnugiga being killed. I guess Ouja's kick also matters even if the main attack is Genocider's vortex. And I guess being rammed by 510kg robot can kill you even if you're a Rider. And if you don't know, there's 1 card that Kitaoka never used in the series. Even if Goro is a good hand-to-hand combatant, he still didn't use that, probably so that he doesn't take away the deception. Some sources outside said that Goro lost to Ouja because he's not that experienced as Rider unlike Kitaoka, but he's a good fighter right? And Rider only gives you super powers alongside your fighting (also Zolda was shown better at direct hand-to-hand in this fight).
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Odin throwing Knight Survive around like usual, with him finally using 2 swords (did he summon one of them without cards?!). Odin already scans his Final Vent before Shiro forfeits the Rider War. Goldphoenix was never even used or seen before this part. And as you see here, Ren still wants to fight to cure Eri, not fighting against Shiro. There's also a debate if Ren died or not when he's at hospital. Though probably he is, he thinks about his friends before going to the hospital, accepting that even if he dies, he would reunite with his friends. He only wants Eri to be alive, not necessarily be together with her.

Regarding the Rider War, now ORE Journal finally made a publication about the Rider War and Mirror Monsters, though they do it in their usual way of publishing it, just adding more infos. I feel bad that ORE Journal would likely be dismissed again via this news (and Shinji also has died). Continuing from before, there's also Okubo stating that “In this battle, there is no justice.”, “All that’s left is a genuine wish.”, “Those who question whether it was right or wrong…” like how he gets people before. But still... unfortunately for ORE Journal.

A collection of death by irony here!

• Goro fakes his death when he becomes a fake Zolda (pretending). Here, he dies for real, if he becomes Zolda for real.
• Kitaoka becomes a Rider because of his illness. He also had to stop being a Rider because of his illness.
• Ouja finally got what he wanted since the start of the war: To fight and beat Zolda. Unfortunately, he killed Gorou, and not Kitaoka. Sickened and maddened by dissatisfaction, he purposely walks into a police ambush and dies without a fight - Also Ouja apparently surviving explosion and getting killed by usual gunshot... if the police show no mercy from the beginning, Asakura would likely be ended much faster.
• Having discovered that he already killed people long ago and having lost his truest friend, Knight finally throws away his hesitancy to fight and kill... And dies right before he can see Eri again.
• Odin's created for only 1 purpose, winning the Rider War and manipulating its outcome, but Odin self-destructs when the Rider War is eventually pointless at the end, giving Odin no reason to exist anymore.

Yup, Shiro's an invincible villain. He and Odin can never be defeated (He's an intangible ghost, and Odin can be killed, but he can be continuously replaced, reviving like a Phoenix), except by himself stopping what he did. But, no, his pain IS the one you can defeat; at the end, it's revealed that he isn't any better off than his victims. What he wants is something that will always be out of his reach.

Opinions on Mirror World story aside, gotta talk about what happened. I don't know and I can't talk about Shiro redeeming or not (I'm on your side of not wanting him to be let off easily), regardless of redemption or not, I just think that Shiro fully submits himself to Yui here, with him having to abide to everything she wants and wishes. Namely, by letting her die, rewinding time again, like he usually does to restart the war if the outcome isn't what he desired (Episode Final and 13 Riders are likely his previous takes of the war with the TV series as the final one), effectively revives all the Riders, and also all the other victims of the Rider War as well, and closing off the Mirror World (Shiro opened it as an adult), those being also what Yui wants as she hates and mourns for innocents suffering/get killed by the war. Lastly, eliminating Mirror Monsters for good by replacing their drawings of Mirror Monsters with what Yui suggests before, which is instead drawing pictures of various people happy and smiling (older Yui also draws Shinji and Ren).... They are not "their happiest memories", those are what they draw now, preventing Mirror Monsters' existence and making Mirror World a safe place. With Shiro letting Yui die when she was little this time, Shiro also chooses to die with her (if only to inform the "bad thing" happened to him), or specifically, existing in the Mirror World that likely isn't going to be opened again and no longer being a part of the land of the living, they’re effectively non-existent.

In short, I don't think Shiro's really redeemed, he still only cares about his sister like usual, but he shows his care in different way, from R̶e̶n̶'̶s̶ ̶w̶a̶y̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶S̶h̶i̶n̶j̶i̶'̶s̶ ̶w̶a̶y̶ doing what he thinks (using how scary death is what they're going through as an excuse) is best for her, to doing what truly is best for her. It's just that Yui's someone who overall wants the best for the world. If Shiro's gonna fulfill what she wants, he's gotta do something that good, regardless of his morality (to others). It's that Yui's wants that came to play, Shiro, with his vast powers, is just the means to achieve that.

Overall, the one fact every Ryuki fans seem to miss; Shinji won at the end. This is how he wins. He indirectly got what he wishes as a Rider (Tezuka as well), the war stopped, the people are safe. He manages to get the Riders to delay or even stop their fighting, delaying the war till the end of Yui's birthday, that the way they explain aside, the truth becomes forcefully uncovered, preventing Shiro from ever saving Yui at the cost of the lives of the Riders, and talking some sense into Shiro. Eventually, after many different timelines of having his idealism broken, Shinji finally wins in the end, with Shiro erasing the Rider War from existence. With Ren also getting his wish, as Eri was only hurt by Darkwing, a Mirror Monster, which no longer exists.

Yeah, it's a bittersweet ending, everyone's coming back, but not all things are good with the balance of fixing the world, which would mean every kind of humans will come back (like Asakura, or those who deserved to be eaten by Contract Monsters). Other than that, people's state are also unchanged, there's Kitaoka's probably still ill and will also die (him having Goro because Goro serves him to atone Kitaoka having incurable disease). Undoing character developments are also another part of its bittersweet. Ren and Shinji not knowing each other anymore also, with all the awkwardness. But I still think with Riders/Monsters not being a thing, all criminals are just ordinary humans who can be easily stopped, compared to all shenanigans Riders can pull. There are also Riders who does their most severe evil things only because the Rider War itself, like Toujou. The ending also somehow has Megumi already working at ORE Journal.... I mean they were talking about golden crayfish and Sakaura Company...

Wow, I really missed a lot over the last day. Anyway, I’ve been preparing for both of the recent points you’ve reached and now for my “probably not that interesting” section.

Ryuga is probably the quintessential Dark Rider, probably because of how he manages to feel like a real person with little screen time, but also because of how cool he manages to be. I think there’s a later show which calls him “the ultimate Dark Rider”. But then again, his competition the show gives him is these guys.

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And anyway, in a few days you’ll be moving on to the next show. I’d share an original trailer for it, but I lost the link sometime ago. Instead, I’ll simply share this figurine that recreates the final scene of said trailer. https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20200328010734

I don't think Die is going to recognise any of those guys! Anyhow, I don't feel good about immediately jumping on someone's opinion but... Ryuga? Feels like a real person? The guy who popped out of a mirror dimension, looks like our protagonist for no reason, and whose only goal is to merge with said protagonist and then kill people?

I'll give you quintessential dark rider if only because he's our first palette swap of a hero. I mean, I'd count G4 but he definitely wasn't as iconic as Ryuga.

I'll weigh in on the various Ryuki endings a bit here.

So, Ryuki is one of the best Rider shows with not one, but FOUR "meh" endings. For all the great character work, the actual plot like many of have already stated can be a bit sloppy. Maybe it's just my head-canon, but because the Rider Battle has occurred multiple times (With Ouja winning at least a few times if that SIC story is canon), I can see the Series, Movie, and both endings to the 13 Riders Special technically all being canon. Though the show I guess does the best job of wrapping things up, but I find all the endings pretty unsatisfying.

Having said that, Ryuki is still one of my favorite Rider series, and what occurred in 49 episodes wasn't ruined for me by what happened in the last 3rd of the 50th.

Also just want to say thank you to Die and everyone for all the great thoughts expressed/shared on this thread. It's been a real joy to read all of your opinions on Ryuki.

Here's hoping there are some Faiz fans who show up in the next one.

It's never too late! I could get notifications if people post to threads I wrapped up months ago, I'm happy to still talk about those. A day or so isn't a problem!

I'm inclined to agree with the Goro's Too Green explanation for his loss to Ouja. He's a good fighter, but Zolda's move-set is all guns and robots. With a little practice, he could probably have been able to give Asakura more of a challenge, but asking him to survive against one of the most dangerous Riders in his first ever battle... I think he knew he was outclassed.

Oh, I think he definitely dies at the hospital. Everything before the reset is The Most Tragic, and that means everybody dies. I wouldn't be surprised if they'd cut a scene where the Ore Journal offices explode and Atori gets swallowed in a sinkhole.

This is a really sweet interpretation. Thanks for sharing it!

I'll be honest, the Rider that Ryuga most reminded me off? Build Hazard. It's not just the light-up eyes and the black suit, it's all of the physicality, or lack thereof. Both Riders have their head hung low, they don't interact with their opponent, they just stand there... until they burst into action, brutalizing their adversary. Like, I can definitely see someone on the stunt team for Build going This Is How We Sell This As Scary.

I don't know that I'd describe him as a real person either, but I can see how someone could get there. Shinji's actor imbues him with some real menace, and the whole Ryuga thing is so evocative that your brain can't help but try to fill in the blanks.

Yeah, boy, for a show that really needed a definitive ending, they just served up a sampler of weak choices.

But, and I'll get into this later too, I don't know how much it matters. I'm a big believer in weak endings tainting stories, and Ryuki's definitely going to have a big ol' Even If on how much I enjoyed, but I still think the character work was strong enough to make the plot deficiencies feel less irritating.

I guess before you really post the overview, I gotta share the ridiculously complete Ryuki information I talk about for real now, in a separate post. I want people, especially fans of the series, to check that out. Much better than a wiki IMO. Oh and not only that, you can also read the similarly complete information of OOO there as well! I wish I'd find other ridiculously complete encyclopedia of a Rider series from a likely more obscure source, but those 2 is the one I can currently.

Zolda's Strike Vent though...

I'd just instead directly go with "Knight's abrasiveness" instead of "Reiko's assertiveness". She has a loose sense of morality. Both Ren and Miho are criminals outside Rider form, the former being a violent thug, and the latter being a con artist. Between all of them, obviously Femme resembles Knight the most, with Miho is also a foil to Ren. Both becomes close to Shinji. But while he's primarily black and blue, Miho's white and black. Similarly, while Ren's combat style revolves around down and dirty one on one combat, Miho's focuses on graceful illusions and crowd control. Their Rider form too, hers also being based on a winged animal while using a rapier Ride Vendor when not using a large bladed weapon like Knight.

I find Femme's Final Vent to be an another lackluster one though. It's just striking an airborne enemy with your Sword Vent. I also want to talk about her Guard Vent that seemingly gives much more than that... like feathers and teleportation powers...like Odin!

Shinji's constantly torn up between falling for her, or also being irritated by her who keeps using him. It's doomed anyway because this is a Rider War which everyone should kill each other. Though above all of that, Femme is about extracting revenge to Ouja. She also has a lesser hatred to Kitaoka due to him being Asakura's lawyer. And poor Kitaoka's the one trying to help her here and becomes the reason for him to retire. I have to wonder why she lets Asakura choke him after destroying his Deck, I mean a Rider is vastly stronger than regular humans.

Miho has a death by irony too. She tried to con Shinji, was saved by Ryuga and mistook him for Shinji thus falling in love with him, the she was saved by actual Shinji from Ryuga and fell in love with him for real... And then died from her wounds shortly after.

So you do get it for Inoue's stance of writing, and that includes Kitaoka to Reiko too. Applies to Kitaoka too. Most of the romantic implications between Kitaoka and Reiko are written by Inoue, and it’s a guarantee that Kitaoka will strike out, where Kobayashi has Kitaoka still showing respect to her when he’s been shot down.

I feel that you somehow gives more pass on a similar element that happened in the series (Mirror Yui, and possiby the monsters as well, also Ryuga below)? Because both events are her receiving the life of her Mirror World counterpart, with different circumstances (and that Yui's already special here, she was able to survive in the Mirror World without immediately disintegrating). Instead of disintegrating, however, Yui’s time limit meant she would die if she returned to the real world, and this is why she needed that life force. Fair enough that this gives a fairytale feel, but the TV series one has it being done in really desperate situation with no other way out. Yui died instead of just wanting to play, and both her and Shiro are stuck. So Mirror Yui gives her a life force, with the explosion freeing them from the room they're locked (and killing their parents) allowing them to resume life normally.

Yeah, the ending is stronger for sure, with her successfully killing herself, making sure no one can stop her. Though I think I don't really want to make her culpable? Unless you also think Shinji's being culpable here as well for breaking his promise at childhood, unwittingly started the Rider War and blaming himself for that. This is subjective but I think I want Yui to be actually completely innocent from everything bad that happened, other than self-blaming, just like, Shinji in this movie (if you think he's not culpable). I also want to know, yeah I talked about the wish vs reviving the dead before in the main series, and this is probably a change from a different writer. In this movie Femme wants to revive her big sister, so shouldn't Shiro be able to revive Yui after she committed suicide here as well (or no need to impose time limit)? Odin also doesn't appear here.

Ryuga is presented as Shinji's total opposite, Shinji is kind and compassionate, Ryuga is cruel, manipulative and utterly merciless. Yeah he's manipulative, that's what he does to Femme, he saves her, taking advantage of his similar looks to Ryuki (obviously!), then kill her when her guard is down. I̶ ̶t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶t̶ ̶D̶r̶a̶g̶b̶l̶a̶c̶k̶e̶r̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶c̶l̶e̶v̶e̶r̶ ̶r̶e̶n̶a̶m̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶.̶ Tie-in information (not a good move) for the movie reveals that after Yui failed to meet up with Shinji again, she created Ryuga just the same as the Mirror Monsters—her desire for a playmate (based on the boy she met) brought him into being, thanks to her Mirror World self. And he also got the human Mirror World properties, he could survive indefinitely in his own universe without any extra protection, but could only stay in the real world for a short time before he started to disintegrate, and can henshin without a mirror. His wish is to prevent that. By that, he's also similar to the Mirror Yui as well where near the end he merges with real Shinji. Ren though, when Ryuga merges with Shinji in front of him...

Ryuga got an ironic death as well, jis ultimate goal was to absorb Shinji and become one. He's lost forever when Shinji absorbs him. I want to know how does Ryuki manage to defeat Ryuga in the Final Vent clash though, Ryuki's AP is 6000, while Ryuga's is 7000. Ryuga, being an abnormal Rider, has the highest stats compared to other base Riders (but not Survives).

Ouja gets the biggest disadvantage over Genocider, that when it's killed while it's merged, Ouja instantly lost all his monster and reverts to pathetically weak Blank Form. I guess for this one, Kitaoka just retires sooner than he did on the TV series, with him still being able to move around more freely, but he did the same thing like TV series right, only one of them (date Reiko). I wonder if Kitaoka knows that Asakura already died here, and probably he does to retire sooner. And speaking of the ending... it's a potential downer ending (oh well, reset anyway)? With the barrier between Mirror World and real world destroyed, where Shinji and Ren can henshin without mirrors, and charge to possible deaths with the swarm of Hydragoons.

Build? It has Ryuga itself... Ryuga Banjou! :p

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/...ukifinale1.png

Ryuki's a fascinating show.

It succeeds because of the impeccable job done with casting, and the stellar character-focused writing. Any Kamen Rider would be lucky to have one or two characters like the Riders of this show, and Ryuki has a half-dozen. (Also Scissors.) It's a show that interrogated the very idea of being a Rider in a way that took nothing for granted. It's smart about motivation in ways that are almost showy, boastful. It's so smart about characters.

It fails because good lord is it dumb about plot. It starts with a clean, catchy premise: Rider versus Rider, to the death. Using that framework to explore concepts like sacrifice, survival, desire, cooperation, and heroism, it can lead to some outstanding stories. But this show constantly got in its own way, focusing on subplots that were distractions, piling on arbitrary and convoluted obstacles, and generally giving the impression that it wasn't clear who this show was supposed to be about.

It's a show that makes it equally easy to focus on what it's doing right as what it's doing wrong.

We've talked a lot already about the characters as the main strength of Ryuki in this thread. I wouldn't disagree with that, but the other aspect I thought was incredibly engaging was its thematic work.

I'll always respect a show that wanted to interrogate the concept of heroism, that refused to take it as a given. Kamen Riders aren't innately heroic, this show argued, but they choose heroism. Why? What does that mean to them? What's the nature of their heroism?

Ryuki's a show that valued argument, disagreement. Every character got to have a view on heroism, got to define the terms of being a hero. It allowed for different viewers to root for different characters. Some viewers could find heroism in Ren's desire to fight and kill to save Eri, while others could root for Shinji, a character who resolutely refused to end a life to save a life. Even Kitaoka got to represent a form of burgeoning heroism, the value in finding peace and deciding to step away from selfishness and vanity. There are a ton of takes on heroism in Ryuki, and they all feel equally valid. The goal wasn't to define heroism, it was to get people to define their own heroism.

That said, you can feel the show building out its own thesis on heroism as the final episodes rolled. It's in Shinji's dying appeal to Ren, that the Rider Battles cause too much suffering. A lot of Kamen Rider is about harnessing evil to fight for good. It's inherent in the premise of Ryuki, as Shinji and Ren (and everyone else) make a life-or-death contract with a monster to achieve their goals. But while the show agrees that evil can be used to fight for good, it draws the line at finding heroism in causing suffering. That any plan that allows or ignores suffering, at any level, isn't heroic. That there's no such thing as a justifiable sacrifice of others. That damning others is a fundamentally evil act. Heroism isn't about trading lives, or about saving someone at the cost of their happiness. It's about fighting to reduce suffering, to increase happiness, as much as possible. If there's a definition of heroism to be found in Ryuki, I think that's it.

That's the character and thematic stuff, which for me was the whole reason to watch Ryuki. I loved them. The plot and premise, though? Those parts were less of a success.

For its DNA, there are a bunch of different things it seems to be referencing. Trading card games, for sure. Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were already huge hits in Japan by the time Ryuki aired, so the idea of two people fighting through monsters, it's an easy way in to the show. Battle Royale was also a huge hit by this point, although (hopefully!) to an older audience than watched Kamen Rider. But you can see how the conflicts in that book/movie could sneak into this kids' show, a broad mix of characters with singular motivations and all the reasons in the world to distrust one another. There's also Highlander, with the prize at the end.

The thing that struck me most about Ryuki, when it worked, was that it seemed to be drawing not from any of those references, or from Kamen Rider as a franchise, but from the workplace drama. It feels as much in a line with Grey's Anatomy or Mad Men as it does Agito or Kuuga.

Ryuki's a show that has a lead actor, but not really a primary Rider. Shinji's not the originator of the story. At the end, it's not even a story really about him. He's not the most powerful. He's not really in charge of the other Riders, either through leadership or friendship. It's what you'd call a flat management structure. Everyone's ostensibly working towards a singular goal (winning the Rider Battles), and teamwork is more about moments when individual pursuits overlap. They aren't really friends of enemies, they're co-workers. Shiro isn't some all-powerful mastermind, he's a shitty, mercurial boss.

This was a show that seemed obsessed with workplaces as a drama generator. With the Rider Battles, there are three different workplaces, covering nearly all types of TV bosses. Atori has the motherly figure, ready to dispense wisdom and a wisecrack. Ore has the fatherly figure, pushing hard but only because he knows you can handle it. And the Rider Battles have the dick boss, someone who'd fire you in a heartbeat if he felt like it.

Still, three workplaces? It's too much. It's a glut of characters and concepts. The strength of Ryuki is how great its characters are. The weakness is that there are too damn many of them.

The biggest problem I had with the construction of this show is how rarely it seemed like everything in it was valuable. The Rider Battles alone could carry a show, but we still had Reiko's investigation, Ore Journal as a business, Atori as a cafe, Yui's story, Shiro's appearances, and however many Riders' personal lives. It's way too much to make relevant at one time, and too little of it overlapped regularly. Reiko's story was great, but it was usually just Reiko's story. Same with Yui's story, or whatever was going on at Atori. It rarely all felt tied together, and that led to this feeling of three different shows occupying the same episode sometimes.

And, man, the Mirror World story is total nonsense. It's hard to care about any action's consequences when Shiro could introduce a new stipulation, or change a rule, whenever he felt like it. It's hard to invest in a contest when the rules are arbitrary. We're constantly told that there need to be thirteen Riders, but we never see all thirteen on the show. We're told that there needs to be one Rider left at the end to fight Odin, but Asakura dies after Knight is declared the final fighter. There's no time limit, then suddenly there's a time limit. Shiro's actions could come off as whimsical or mysterious, but it mostly felt to me like the function of plot. He wasn't a character, he was how the producers interfered in the characters lives.

The problem spilled over, irrevocably, into the Yui and Shiro plots. A ton of the conclusion is about Shiro and Yui's relationship, and that story largely didn't work for me. Yui was rarely the most important character in any Yui plot, and the actor was given one or two notes to play for the entire series. And she's so funny in a few scenes when she's given the chance! But the character is sad all the time, and that's about it. Well, occasionally she's also confused. Those are the two emotions she gets to play for an entire series. It makes for an inert resolution to this series, where I'm asked to care about the two most underwritten and unsympathetic characters on the show. If this was where it was all leading, why didn't they work harder to make you care about them? Why pin your resolution on them, and not the raft of memorable characters in your cast?

But that cast! So great. Shinji is a new take on a Rider, tempering the sweetness of Shouichi with righteous anger. Ren is a brooding asshole who never stops being a brooding asshole, refusing to give up on his dim view of humanity even as he fights for the people he loves. Asakura is all rage, a fighter who sees the Rider Battles as their own reward. (My favorite Ryuki trope is the way Ouja rotates his neck after he Henshins. He relaxes after he Henshins. Perfect.) Toujou is heroism as an intellectual concept instead of an emotional one, a rigid worldview that feels antiquated. Professor is someone who sees sacrifice as regrettable, but never tries to see it as avoidable. Reiko is the ideal of journalism, a quest for answers that can't be stopped. Megumi is a hilarious ditz. Shimada is a judgmental genius. Kitaoka is perfect.

It's nuts. This cast was amazing, and a story about what heroism even means, it's brilliant. But the construction was sloppy, and it rarely felt like everything in an episode was pulling in the same direction. There's some excellent raw material here, but the sculpting needed a lot more attention.

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And that's a wrap on Masked Rider Ryuki! I've watched the show, and I've opened my Figuarts Ryuki to celebrate.

This was a fun show to watch, and a lifesaver to talk about. I've said before that this stuff is self-care for me, a way to get my head right after watching Kamen Rider and having thoughts. This time, with everything going on, it was also a sense of normalcy, a little bit of a refuge. So, as always, thank you for indulging me, and thanks so much for your thoughts and feedback. You are my Survive Card.

I'm going to need a couple few days to decompress before the next show, but I'm happy to keep talking about Ryuki for as long as you all want. This one maybe has more in it, possibly? I don't know. You tell me.

Otherwise, I'll be back in about a week with KAMEN RIDER DIE WATCHES KAMEN RIDER WIZARD!

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Oh, shit, sorry! I always get those two mixed up. I'll actually be back in about a week with KAMEN RIDER DIE WATCHES MASKED RIDER FAIZ. I hope you'll check it out!

OK... you have written your overview, though dunno if you're open to knowing more of it (especially as you're going to ditch it), as I haven't posted my review yet.

Also nothing to say about my latest reply?