KAMEN RIDER HIBIKI - FINAL VOLUME - "A DREAM OF TOMORROW"

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/.../hibiki48a.png

"I'm wondering if I've already heard all the songs that'll mean something
And I'm wondering if I've already met all the people that'll mean something
But I find myself daydreaming of the places where we used to stay
We used to brush them away
St Kilda, Coolangatta, Bondi Beach and Coogee Bay
I like the sound of their names
And I wonder if you would wanna go there with me
When I'm finished over here
If you're not finished with me"

-Allo Darlin', "Tallulah"

There's an idea in this one that's such a perfect way to end the series that it made me cry.

It's about five minutes in, as we're catching up to how the whole cast has kept themselves busy in the year after the Oni suppressed Orochi. Asumu's been training to be a doctor, and he hasn't really spoken to Hibiki. And then, out of nowhere, Hibiki shows up outside the clinic that Asumu is volunteering at. He's all casual to Asumu, super-friendly, like a minute hasn't passed. He puts his arm around Asumu and is about to drag him out to eat, so they can catch up, and Asumu stops him. He's working right now. He can't leave with Hibiki. He's got a life, and it doesn't stop and start on Hibiki's schedule. He's grown up, and his life doesn't revolve around Hibiki.

And there's this hurt on Hibiki's face that flashes in an instant, and gets covered by his charming grin. He's like an imaginary friend that a child's outgrown. He had value, was loved, and now he's something to be left behind. Asumu can draw strength from the lessons Hibiki taught him, but it's time for Asumu to live without Hibiki. It's so bittersweet, so perfect.

Because that's Hibiki the man and Hibiki the character. This show is over. It's a show that was always about making the subtext text, and what better way to do that than to have Asumu put Hibiki away? To honor their friendship, cherish their time together... but for that time to be over.

There is something tragic and beautiful and necessary in that idea. A final lesson for children that, eventually, childhood ends. You will inevitably learn everything you can from these superheroes, and it's okay to let them go. (And then eventually rediscover them as an adult who is willing to dissect stories designed to sell toys to children.) Stories end. We grow up. It's natural. It's okay.

It's brave, y'know? To spend the final episode of a Kamen Rider series telling children that eventually they won't need Kamen Riders to show them how to be good people. I really love that, as a final statement from this series.

Literally everything else in this episode was an unmitigated failure.

Like, the last scene takes us back to a beach that's similar to the iconic one from the first Hibiki story. (I think it's a different one? It's shot super-similar, but I can't imagine Hibiki dragged an unconscious Asumu on a ferry ride just for nostalgia's sake. Although, this episode does a ton of other stupid things, so...) It's a hamfisted way of creating a bookend to Asumu and Hibiki's story, a sentimentality that this episode really doesn't earn. And the speech Asumu gives... I love that Asumu gets the final word, and I love everything he's saying... but then Hibiki's like I'll Be In Your Life Forever and now this episode is about nothing. They had a touching ending, and then they blinked. It's not an ending at all. It's just a final episode. And, god, on that level...

So much of the beginning is just poorly-written exposition. Characters are constantly telling each other things they should know by now. (I literally cannot believe that there's a line in the first two minutes where Todoroki has to mention that it's been a year since they stopped Orochi to four people who were all dealing with that problem in the previous year. It's the laziest writing.) No one's really doing anything weird, or interesting. There's nothing with Todoroki and Hinaka's relationship, which is baffling considering how much time their story got in the second phase of this series. Everything's just... whatever. Folks are living their lives, fighting monsters, nbd.

And then Hitomi gets kidnapped by a catman and this thing goes jaw-droppingly off the rails.

It's the stupidest plot I've maybe ever seen in Kamen Rider. It makes almost zero sense. Hitomi gets plucked out of the clear blue sky by Fancy-Dress Douji and Hime, something that smacks of so much narrative contrivance that it's insulting. She's going to get turned into a new servant, something that they've previously not needed to kidnap people for, and so they dump her in Garren's Tank Of Bad Decisions from Blade, along with tiny eels (?) and then she gets rescued and Kiriya can henshin now and there are fancier-dressed Douji and Hime and Asumu runs into an explosion. It's stupid. It is so stupid.

Like, not to call out one thing in that sequence as being dumber than the rest, they're all equally braindead, but Asumu runs to see Hibiki as Hibiki is detonating a monster. Why? Why is he running into an active battle? Why is he shouting out to Hibiki just as Hibiki is letting loose a wave of destructive energy? I mean, the answer is So He Can Wake Up In The Next Scene, which is a lazy-ass answer. It's emblematic of everything wrong in this episode, where stupid things occur so that they can set up the next stupid thing.

I always wondered what about the final Hibiki episode could've been so bad that the guy who played Hibiki resented the show for years. (Forever?) Quality-wise, it's a goddamn disaster. If I was the face of this episode, I'd never let them use my face again, either. Story-wise... god, there's that one perfect scene, and then an episode that can't honor it. Disappointing way to end this show.

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/.../hibiki48b.png

... yeah?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

I'd say that about sums it up too. I'm also not too fond of the idea of Asumu becoming a doctor (seems a bit out of nowhere, especially with how he's been going towards things that enrich peoples' lives rather than save them), but I guess I can see it and wouldn't blame anyone else including the showrunners from figuring that's where he'd go. Still weird to me mind.

Otherwise yeah this sure is a final episode. I'm sure both Switchblade and Androzani are about to jump in with some Production Fun Facts which will explain a lot so I won't steal their thunder, but needless to say it's not just the content of this episode that left Hibiki's actor so spurned. Though I wouldn't blame him for that either.

Its a shame that for a series like Kamen Rider, such poor writers were chosen for the second half of Hibiki. Like i get the first half wasnt budget friendly, but at least try to keep the writing. if you want to cutback, cutback, not frankstein together a completely new plot and royally demolish what the first half was aiming for. I loved the first half, the nuances and layered storytelling was exceptional, brought a level of humanity and realism to hibiki as people before masked heroes. If i were Shigeki Hosokawa, after this mess, i wouldnt want my name associated with Rider either.

I don't love them swerving from Asumu The Artist to Asumu The Doctor (so much better thematically if he wants to bring smiles!), but I think the episode hedges its bets by having AsuMum wonder out loud if Asumu's really that dedicated to medicine. He's always been an indecisive kid, so I don't think it'd be a huge shock for him to land in a completely different field. The only thing he says definitievely in the finale is that he won't be an Oni. I like to think he got back into a drama club in university, and then pivoted back to entertaining.

(Also, I wonder if the implication is that spending more time with the chronically-ill Naomi made Asumu want to study medicine?)

This finale is impossible to defend creatively, but I actually think there were a few smart choice in the second phase. I'll dig into the phase as a whole tomorrow, but there were some attempts at more conflict-oriented storytelling that I thought were solid. Mostly, it's Asumu's story that I think the show did a more-or-less good job at landing. The rest of it, uh... a little more problematic!

The more I think about it, I don't really hate that final scene in Episode 48. It's laying out the victory condition for Asumu, the main character of the show. He's telling Hibiki that he doesn't need his approval, but he'd like his support. It's an acknowledgement that Asumu is an adult now, and that he and Hibiki can be peers. It's a very sweet idea, even if I think there are ways it could've been better.

I am, yes. Thank you for your restraint.

So the second Hibiki finale...

You thought the episode was kind of a mess and that's because it is. At this point, the show's production had gone so far off the rails that they were literally writing the episode while it was filming it.

At least, that's the urban legend. My understanding is that it's more a case of they were re-writing it while they were filming.

The staff has multiple different ending ideas in play and there was some major waffling back and forth between ideas. The suit that Kiriya wears when he transforms? Not actually made for him. It's a kitbash of the original suit made for Kiriya with parts added from the one that would have been Asumu's. The idea that Asumu was going to end up as an Oni got so far along that they'd even begun making a suit for him.

As I always say, I view what happened to this show as a tragedy and this complete clusterfuck of a finale is kind of the perfect note for this era of the show to go out on: a bunch of dumb chaos desperately thrown together by people who had no vision for the show.

I don't... I'm not sure I can say that they had no vision for the show. There's a really solid throughline for Asumu, from Episode 1 to Episode 48, and that shit don't happen by accident. There are a ton of flaws in the second phase, I am thinking about them right this second as I'm writing the second phase Wrap-Up, but you will never convince me that Inoue didn't have something to say on this show.

Also, jesus, if some of this nonsense was due to them realizing that Asumu 1000% should not become an Oni in the final episode, it might've been worth it. I cannot tell you how much angrier I'd've been if that kid got in a costume for the finale.

And then he got cast in a the long ongoing toku series... ultraman. (though seeing an ultraman analog in a kamen rider show would be funny to me)

Speaking of urban legends, anyone know if this detail is true or not?

I recall reading somewhere that when they got Inoue to do the second half, all he had to work with for the longest time was the script of the very first episode.

No idea if that's actually true or not, but it'd certainly explain alot of things.

Kamen Rider J says hi.

I would honestly merely call the finale a mitigated failure, based on how I remember it, at least. Not that those memories are very reliable, because I've barely had a thing to say for like the entire last fifth of this show, which bummed me out a bit. I feel bad whenever I'm not actively contributing to these threads. But I do have thoughts about this episode, and I've gotta do my job as the site's resident contrarian.

Like I mentioned way back at the beginning of the thread, Hibiki was the last Heisei Rider show I ended up watching while playing catch-up after getting into the franchise, and frankly, that very last scene is one I love, and it's always had a special place in my heart. The retooled section of this series, as Die has captured so wonderfully, was uneven, to say the least. Even as someone who maybe didn't totally appreciate everything Hibiki was doing, I could tell a lot of that spark and purpose was gone, and the show was struggling to find new footing. There were things I still enjoyed, but huge swathes of it were failing to really *grab* me.

But right at the end there, despite all the other horrible decisions the plotting makes, I thought they nailed the final statement on Hibiki as well as Takatera's crew possibly could have, and people who have seen me get in on disowing this part of the show with Switchblade should understand I don't say that causally.

Hibiki telling Asumu being an Oni isn't the only way to be his apprentice, that is the absolute core of what the series was about to me. I've always been staunchly against the idea of Asumu becoming one, because it would horribly undermine the entire point of his role as an audience surrogate. Apparently the original crew was open to going either way depending on where the story ended up naturally leading them, but I just can't imagine them landing anywhere else. Die talks about how Asumu grew up by leaving Hibiki behind, but what I'd add is that the joke "rediscovering your heroes as an adult" bit is arguably part of the text of the episode. I see that final scene as basically saying that Asumu's decision to try and essentially throw Hibiki away was no more the answer than blindly mimicking him was. It's merely another step in the journey, and that the real endpoint is realizing it's okay to keep carrying Hibiki in his heart, along with all the lessons he learned from him, because it really did mean something.

It's... I'm getting rambly and I don't think I'm doing a great job describing it, but it's the perfect note for the show to end on, in my opinion. It's a rough ride getting there, but I forgot about all the stupid monster stuff in this one eventually. I never, ever forgot seeing that chat between Hibiki and Asumu with the sun on the horizon with Shounen Yo playing, and finally feeling like I was watching Hibiki again.

Plus, I learned in recent years the title of this one is derived from Asumu's name the same way the first was Hibiki's, and that really appeals to my love of good episode titles AND bookends. Again, hard to imagine that part being any better.

Well, he did end up becoming a Sentai Red. At least briefly.

I more meant an in show analog like the toku hero riku likes in Geed

Elaborate please if you have time.

Asumu actor played Neo DekaRed in Dekaranger 10 years after

I am so glad that I got to liking this scene minutes before you posted this, so I could rob you of the belief that you're destined to be a contrarian. We have the same feelings on this one.

(Also, there was a point in the Episode 48 write-up where I was going to take a shot at the first dozen episodes of Ghost, but I was like Man Don't Be Mean To Fish Like That. Consider it an early Christmas gift. Happy Holidays!)

It's a scene that does a great job in making Asumu and Hibiki into peers, two people that can support each other without needing to change or fix each other. It's an ending I'm really warming to, as I see it through the lens of What Asumu Wants. He never wanted Hibiki to leave, so it's okay to have Hibiki back as long as Asumu gets a say in how that happens. Like, there's a shot where Hibiki is standing over Asumu, and then he steps down to stand on Asumu's level. How am I gonna be mad at a choice like that?

See, everyone? Sometimes rewrites really are for the best! :p

Now that Die has finished the show there something I've been dying to ask ever since I first finished the show and haven't gotten an answer anywhere. What the hell happened to the 4 oni's in the 2nd opening? In the 2nd opening there a brief scene in which you see 11 Oni's standing together

https://i.redd.it/or0yzxs7z4z51.png


but only 7 actually showed up in the show. So what happned to the other 4? They made suits for these guys and even if they all share the same base body as Hibiki it couldn't be cheap. And wasn't Hibiki losing money at this point? So it's mind boggling they made 4 new suits and only use them for 1 second in the opening (Yes I timed it) and as far I'm aware were never used again in any other show, movie or stage show. So guys help me out here what happened to the other 4 and why did Toei even make them if Hibiki was already sinking ship at that point?

The extra Oni were brought on to give Sabaki a break, but were fired after he found out they were only working 23 hours a day.

Honestly, I have very few issues with the finale. My worst is that we don’t get any real final battle, given that this is just the epilogue. The lack of closure on the man and the woman (suddenly, they were another Douji and Hime under the control of the “real” man and woman) I can live with, since Dairanger did the same thing (with their main villain turning out to be a clay puppet created by the real one).

And I’ve already been beaten to the punch on the new Oni suit, so I’ll just mention that while it officially has no name, one of the stage shows has Kiriya dubbing himself “Kyoki” (Strong Demon) with nobody taking it seriously or accepting it.

And like I said last time, I have one last contribution to the “next time” lyrics. Which like the last one, are a bit obvious.

Kimi ga negau koto nara subete ga genjitsu ni naru n' darou
Erabareshi mono naraba
Bousou hajimete 'ru
sekai wo moto ni modosu ni wa mou
Jikan ga nai

MOVING FAST
Kokoro no tokei ni hashirase ashita no sono saki e

Kimi no tonari tatakau tabi umarekawaru
Me ni mieru SPEED koete 'ku MOTION
Ittai jibun igai dare no tsuyosa shinjirareru?
Kousoku no VISION minogasu na
Tsuite koreru nara...

https://youtube.com/watch?v=JoweJS6xhOE

I think that was the OOO section of Movie Wars Core. And it wasn’t even the whole script, just an incomplete first draft. I think the inconsistencies between the two halves are more due to the different producers and their styles (Taketera is someone who tries to plan things out ahead of time, while Shirakura basically admits he has his writers hold off on submitting ideas until it’s time to include them.

I believe these were the riders that were part of the original plan of the finale -- a bunch of Oni we've seen throughout the series like Danki, Sabaki, Eiki etc. getting in on the final battle as an Everyone Is Here sort of thing, including a bunch of newcomers to portray the scope of Takeshi.

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification!

Since Die couldn't answer this, maybe I can think of something instead.

I don't think Shounen was even aware he had complex feelings for Mochida until he thought she and Kiriya were dating. However, what you said about the possibility of him acting like Kaido definitely would have been a bad idea, since those are two very different characters. Something similar happened in Kyoryuger and it was painful. Regarding Mari's age though, it isn't really a significant problem in that culture since Japan's 13 is USA's 18.

I think it's important for characters to be written consistently, which is something that's a problem for writers like Yonemura Shoji, Sanjo Riku and Haganeya Jin, who don't really understand the concept that a character needs a catalyst for them to change. At least if Inoue writes a terrible character, he writes a consistently terrible character, who will only change for the better under the right circumstances, and vice versa for nice characters.

Something I noticed that I thought was strange though was how Shounen's relationship with Akira seemed to change offscreen. Like in the first half, it was "Akira-san" but in the second half, it's "Amami-san". It's the opposite of what happened in Faiz Paradise Lost with Mari calling Kusaka coldly as Masato without honorific except that change happened in Lost World as we know and her contempt was justified.

BTW, you can refer to me with male pronouns.

I think it's more like the introductory arc was about Todoroki trying to find his way as a new Oni after being forced to take over from Zanki unexpectedly and the concluding arc was about Todoroki solidifying himself in the role he gradually grew in to as an accumulation of his experience throughout the show and receiving Zanki's final blessing with his participation in the symbolic purifying of the battlefield to cleanse himself as well. I believe these two characters, despite the similarity of the aforementioned arcs, are ultimately in different places between the start and end of their development.

I think this plot would have been much earlier and better executed had the Orochi incident not derailed it. The brand new Douji and Hime showing up at the end is a typical Inoue-style cliffhanger, except this is a show where the villains are so vague that it's hard to care where that goes. We already knew their hierarchy was confusing so it doesn't mean anything other than showing just another link in the chain.

Why do you think Kiriya's henshin is stupid though? After training for a year, I think he earned that big moment and he even shows growth by acknowledging Shounen's merit. Don't ask me how his clothes survive the henshin though, I can't answer that.

Not sure if this was deliberate or just meta commentary on how you disliked this episode but kudos for using Hime in your finale screencaps. It's a fitting tribute to Ashina Sei, her recently deceased actress.

I like how triumphant Shounen sounds when he says "I'm not going to become an Oni." which is preceded immediately by his leitmotif. Out of context, that sentence sounds like surrender, but instead it's him firmly telling Hibiki that he's not going to become an Oni, cause he's not an Oni.

When Akira declared her resignation, it's cause she stopped wanting to be an Oni, but she still didn't know then what she really wanted to do. But Shounen's declaration is about how he found something he wants to do more, something that makes him feel validated!

Pacing-wise, it's frustrating to have the emotional climax of the series need to stop for a brand-new battle against the Makamou... when the show cuts away in the beginning from a battle against the Makamou. Worse, the only narrative reason to cut away from the opening battle is if there's some mystery to its conclusion, but here we're told immediately that it all worked out and everyone's fine. I don't love that opening!

The stuff with the Fanciest-Dress Douji and Hime isn't a dealbreaker, but it's a concept that adds nothing to what we've seen other than a twist for twist's sake. At best it's forgettable, and boy is that not what you should be aiming for in a finale.

I guess I just saw Todoroki being in a good place as an Oni, and with his relationship with Zanki... and then suddenly he's begging Zanki to fight with him and punch him and it all feels forced to me. The characters were doing well, until Todoroki started freaking out and feeling jealous. There's some specifics to what Zanki is doing (his sacrifice, his commitment to Todoroki) that were different enough to have some moving scenes, but the Todoroki part of the story just felt repetitious to me.

It's more that the episode treats it like A NEW SUIT and I'm like It's Kiriya Though, and the episode says A NEW ONI FOR A NEW GENERATION and I'm like It's Kiriya Though. Kiriya always works well for me as a supporting cast character, someone like Hinaka or Hitomi. When I'm supposed to celebrate his accomplishments as worth something in their own right, I just don't feel like it's worth the show's time? It felt very much like, since Asumu is definitely not going to Henshin in the finale, one of the kids needed to, so here's Kiriya as an Oni. It's not a terrible concept, but I don't think it needed so much time or emphasis in the finale.

Screencaps are 99% deliberate. I usually pull a bunch during an episode, think about what feelings the episode generated, and then pick a couple that can suit that mood.

I'd love to say it was a tribute to the actor, that last one, but it was coincidence. I really enjoyed her performance, though. Of the plots that could've meant more to the final couple episodes, I wish we'd gotten a better conclusion to the evolving Hime.

KAMEN RIDER HIBIKI 30-48 WRAP-UP

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/...ikiphase2a.png

"If the right side eludes you this time
There's another one standing in line
And the languages change in the dark
But on paper it makes perfect sense"

-Superchunk, "The Only Piece That You Get"

The best way I can think to compare the two phases of Hibiki is by comparing two sets of episodes: 17/18 and 34/35.

The first two are the Ibuki/Kasumi date episodes. It's all about how Kasumi views Ibuki as a boy, and can't quite see him as the man he's become. Once she gets to see him in his element, as an Oni, she respects him as a man. It's a stirring episode of discovery, a story of mutual respect and how we sometimes aren't able to see our friends' development. It's tender, and unexpected.

The second two are a story where Todoroki gives Hinaka a fish for her birthday, and she thinks she should break up with him. His lack of confidence in his lovelife causes him to be terrible in his professional life, leading to him making such good ramen that Hinaka sees him as a man worth loving. It's ridiculous, and untethered from reality.

The thing is, I think they both have their strengths. I don't think one is wrong. The first phase story is sweet, but lacks dynamism. It's deliberate, but can sometimes feel dull in stretches. The second phase story is a blast, but with a comedic edge that smothers its poignancy. It reduces characters to caricature, even as it makes those caricatures lovable and worth rooting for.

Tonally, these two things don't belong together. Separately... they have their merits?

I already wrote a bunch about the first phase, so let me get a few words in about the second phase, as a whole. (Normally, this'd be a post taking apart the entire series, but I just don't see the value in doing that this time. Doesn't seem like a fair way to approach things.)

The Asumu stuff works. It really does. The main thing the new team needed to do was keep the Asumu story heading in the right direction, and I really think they did. There're a couple weird turns, and some episodes where he felt abandoned, but it ain't like the first phase didn't have a couple bum episodes for that kid. The steady growth of Asumu, from apprentice to artist to doctor to man, I think they did a great job making that path feel as uncertain as Asumu always was, while resolving itself in a satisfying way. The series was originally about how to grow up well, and that part of the show was still a major emphasis for the second phase.

Kiriya is... I mean, not a great character. He's funny, and aggressively awful, but his character is like a play on that South Park joke: Step 1: Terrible > Step 2: ??? > Step 3: Oni. I liked some of how the show maneuvered him into that role, but it's still pretty rushed. He's a natural foil to Asumu's character, someone who's trained and confident and driven, all things that Asumu lacks, while being so catastrophically flawed on an emotional level that he's got the biggest hill to climb as an Oni apprentice. He mostly didn't feel believable as a human being (the stuff with his dad resonated with me, but that's it), despite being a pretty fun addition to the cast, which is probably why he's what I'll always think of when I think of the second phase of Hibiki.

Well, him or Todoroki, who seems like The New Pet for the writing team on the second phase. Todoroki gets WAY more of the spotlight in the second phase, for better or worse. I genuinely disliked the Zanki Dies story, specifically for how superfluous it felt for Todoroki's personal growth, but there's no denying that it was a big story for the show. Todoroki gets both the funniest episodes of the second phase (YMMV), as well as the most heart-rending. He's a lot wackier in this part of the show, which is a very Inoue thing, and it's not always to the show's benefit. I think the actor elevated everything he was given (I get why they wanted to write more comedic material for him), but not everything he was given was worth elevating.

Alongside Todoroki, Hinaka sure became the Main Sister, didn't she? Definitely graduated to the main cast. Kasumi barely gets a look in during the second phase, with Hinaka's relationship stories supplanting Kasumi's, and no more camping to get Kasumi out into the monster plots. Like Hitomi, Kasumi's a character that got dropped pretty hard in the second phase.

Ibuki's another one who, boy, not a lot going on. Ostensibly he's got something to do in the Akira Quits story, but the whole point of that one ends up being that he doesn't get a vote in what she decides, so, nope! (Also, oh my god, my least favorite part of that story is when Ibuki made it all about him.) He's a very pleasant, handsome boy in the second phase, and that ends up being the entirety of his arc.

Hibiki... I don't think he came off worse in the second phase, but... I think Hibiki is a problem that the show never really solved in either phase. There's a way to do a monster show that runs alongside a coming-of-age drama, but I don't think anyone on this show really figured out how to make it work in a longform way. Which is not to say that they didn't figure it out episode-by-episode! Because they did! It's just, Hibiki not really being able to substantially grow over this thing, to only be able to incrementally open himself up to being a friend to Asumu, it's a tough arc for a character. It mostly feels like he stays static, which is some faint praise. He doesn't worsen in the second phase, but he still feels as occasionally irrelevant as he could in the first phase. His basic character in the finale is the same as his character in the premiere, except now he has Asumu in his life. That's a big thing! But, it's one thing. I don't know. It's really hard to have a non-Rider be the main character of a Rider show, and I don't know if this series ever figured out the best way to deal with the Primary Rider.

It doesn't help that the monster stuff went from being dull to actively frustrating, though. If there's one thing I could've predicted in advance of watching these last 19 episodes, it's that Inoue would suck at doing an overarching monster plot. It's not like the season-long monster plots on Agito or Faiz were any great shakes. Agito's was relentlessly vague, while Faiz's had a real tough time switching into its endgame. (We may never know for sure why the previous team was let go, or why Inoue was put in charge of the writing, but it will never not be funny for me to think that the execs wanted a more action-focused show and they picked the guy who was the worst at crafting monster plots.) And here, he had a basically blank slate (there was precious little established by the previous creative team) and he still couldn't figure out a way to make it worth watching. The Oni storyline is a gigantic shrug, with a final battle that the show couldn't care enough about to actually show the victory. The most I could be on the side of the people who write-off the second phase is on the topic of the monster plots. They're at best nonsensical, when they're not infuriating. The worst writing on this show is as a result of the monster plots.

And yet, I wouldn't call the second phase bad. (Well, maybe 38 and 39...) I think it's sloppy, sure. It is trying to work at a higher temperature than the other phase, absolutely. But I think there are elements that continue to work (Asumu, mostly) that make it worth watching. I think there's care taken to try and honor what came before, while still working to different guidelines. There are some gems in here, buried. It's arguable if it's worth the time to sift for them, and I don't blame anyone who opts not to, but right now I'm leaning towards feeling like it was worth it for me.

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/...ikiphase2b.png

One think I didn't see anyone mentioning is that the last episode was constantly be redone and re-written, my understanding is that they were still changing their minds on it while they were writing it. They even had an Oni suit for Asumu made, which they then ripped apart and stuck bits of it to Kiriya's suit instead.

So, yeah the production of the episode was even messier than the episode itself.

I'm fairly confident that they got Inoue to do this second phase because Faiz was (I think) the most critically successful season of Rider by a large margin and they probably just said to him "Please just do what you did there".

All of that was mentioned actually, two pages ago, courtesy of Switchblade.

Funny (also sad) to think what kind of ideas were floating around yet they settled for 'extended epilogue where the bad guys try to perform an evil experiment on hitomi'.

I’m in much the same boat as you. The second half does have its ups and its downs, but I wouldn’t call it objectively terrible. That tweet I quoted a while back? He later said that Hibiki had become his favourite Heisei Rider series (displacing Kuuga) partially because of it.

By contrast, the next series, which is handled by the same writers and producer team as this second half, I’d put it in my top 5. I’ll go into why as you go through that watch along, but most of the time on that thread, I’ll be pointing out what past Rider every Rider in the show is a homage to and any (possible) similarities.

I just want to say this before the thread ends, but 38 and 39 were written by someone named Shōji Yonemura not Inoue. I'm not sure what circumstances lead to the episodes being so bad though. I don't have experience with his other writings. (He wrote Smile Precure though, so that's a thing)

There's a joking defense I like to make about the later part of Hibiki, which is that it's a lot better if you just pretend it's Inoue's Todoroki fan-fiction. I've been meaning to find some excuse to bring that up in here, and I guess you confirming for me I'm not just misremembering the (excessive?) amount of focus he gets is just that. It's not some particularly clever thing, but I love describing it that way because it straddles a fine line between sounding like genuine apologist talk ("you just need to adjust your expectations") and an outright condemnation ("it's about the quality you'd expect from your average fan-fic").

That ambiguity expresses my conflicted feelings on what happened to this show pretty much perfectly; I don't actually hate it anywhere near as much as I think a lot of people do, but even then, I wouldn't exactly say I'm fond of it on any significant level either. Except maybe those first two Inoue episodes, which, again, I legitimately mistook for part of the old era somehow.

Y'know, the funny thing is that I remember being very disappointed by Hibiki's second half. After rewatching the show, I've re-evaluated my opinion to mildly disappointed. I've seen Inoue do better, he wrote my favorite show, but I've also seen him do worse. I can tell he was at least trying to do something here. Maybe it didn't totally work but the stuff that worked was worth watching for.

But Kabuto? Used to be in my top 5 as well. It was the second Rider show I watched after Decade. Something changed though, when I rewatched it in 2016. I was aware of the stuff I disliked from the first time and maybe that diminished my enjoyment. I couldn't enjoy certain things cause I knew they would be ruined later. I won't be as active in the Kabuto thread since I'm not watching along this time (instead, I'm going to rewatch my 4th favorite Rider show, Kamen Rider Ghost!), but I do have a few things to say and fortunately, not all of them are complaints.

The main reason Inoue and Shirakura were brought into the 2nd half was because Agito,Ryuki and Faiz were all critical and commercial success. The higher up probably were thinking along the lines of these guys made us alot a cash a couple of years ago let them have Hibiki in order to get our ratings and sponsers back. Without thinking about how there style of writing and producing clashed with Taketera style.

Yeah, man, I can't even conceive of a stupider final story. It's almost worthy of praise, it's so jarring and pathetic.

It's Not As Awful As Its Reputation is probably the best way I can distill the second phase into one thought.

Yeah, that came up. The basic problem with those episodes is that they feature a couple characters acting wildly out-of-character, and the story tries to do way too much. It's about four episodes worth of ideas done over two.

There's a part of me that wonders if the show wouldn't have been... not better, but more successful in marrying the coming-of-age storytelling with the demands of the superhero genre if they'd made Todoroki the POV character for the whole series. He ends up going through a lot of the same tensions that Asumu does (confidence, independence, apprenticeship), but he's also an Oni, so he gets to apply those lessons directly to detonating a monster. I don't know that you'd get as much sweetness, but it'd probably make some of the writing easier.

For sure. I think the ending especially landed the themes of the series, which is maybe enough to say that the second phase is worth experiencing.

It's fun to think that Inoue took one look at the previous scripts and went But What If We Do More With The Kid Not Wanting To Be A Superhero Though.

I'm looking forward to doing Kabuto next. It's a show I generally remember liking, but at some point my brain decided that I didn't need it in my long-term memory. I recall bits and pieces of it, but it's going to be a lot of stuff that I've completely forgotten.

Kabuto is an experience. Which I think you're really really going to like.

THREAD END FOR KAMEN RIDER DIE

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/hibiki/sendoffa.png

"Our work is done
We sucked the life out of every living thing
Oh under the sun
And our work is done"

-Superchunk, "Our Work Is Done"

And that's it for me and this thread! A super weird experience, but a fulfilling one.

Thanks, as always, to everyone who came along on this ride with me. Getting to hear the trivia, the memories, the insights, the frustration, the elation... it's a real gift to choose to share that with me (and others!), and it's something I treasure. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!

Normally, I've got a new Figuart to open when I've closed out a series, but WOW am I not the type of fan who's willing to pay the current aftermarket price for a Seihou Hibiki. Instead, I spent the afternoon building this guy, and I am not feeling bad about that alternative:

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/hibiki/hibikifr.jpg

It's this year's Figure-Rise Hibiki, and he's a pretty fun build. Some of the stickers are a pain in the ass (the ones around his wrists and ankles are poorly designed), but I like him a lot. A worthy addition to my little trophy shelf.

Oh! And how about a Word Cloud?

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/...kiwordart.jpeg

Sure to be a few random phrases that can sum up our feelings about Hibiki. "Plot Need Love" fairly leaps out at you, right?

Other than that, I'm gonna make myself scarce for a bit. Decompression sounds like a real treat. I'll pop into this thread when I've got something to say, but don't be surprised if it's more radio silence than usual for the next couple weeks.

Unless something weird happens, expect to see "Kamen Rider Die watches Kamen Rider Kabuto" land on these boards on December 3rd. Until then, I hope you're able to live your life the way you want!

Thanks!

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/hibiki/sendoffb.png

"STORY EPISODE FEEL" sounds about right to me!

Grats on finishing Hibiki, Die. Take a well deserved rest.

"First Look Here" right in the center sounds weirdly like an instruction on how these pictures work.

"Still Care; Nice, Mostly" is maybe where Die's opinion on the retool ended up.

"Great Man" and "Real Kid" combine to encapsulate the show pretty well, if you ask me.

Maybe don't ask me, though. I have very weird opinions about Kamen Rider. But hey, that's all part of the fun around here, isn't it? This was a blast as always, Die. Enjoy the time off!

Completely missed that in my rush to skim through several pages of posting to see if anyone had mentioned that. My apologies.

Another feat done. :rock:
Can't wait to see the Kabuto reviews.

I've actually never seen the next rider series but from what I've heard(FAIZ 2.0) I wouldn't like it probably