Between this and HG Final I'm really gonna have to fight you some day

I got unpopular opinions in my brain sometimes! I don't get to pick 'em! It doesn't bother me if people like the stuff I don't!

(But, like, come on. Cosmic States is one "crude drawing of Fourze on the chest" away from being a child's Halloween costume.)

I know this slighty off topic but what exactly do you not like about some final forms?

I really like simplicity in Kamen Rider suits. A couple colors, one motif. Like, one idea expressed in the suit. Drive is a car. Double is two people. Fourze is a space shuttle.

Upgrade suits tend to follow a Version Of X design philosophy, where the core motif gets tweaked, or enhanced, and it can sometimes lead to a messy visual. Drive Type Wild is a monster truck instead of just a car. Fourze Magnet States is a space shuttle EVA suit instead of just a space shuttle. I mean, I'm not against that. I get that, basically by definition, an upgrade suit has to add-on to what the base suit was doing. It just sometimes ends up lacking a clean design philosophy that I respond to.

Final Forms, they usually have to say This Is What Happened In The Series, all through the suit's design. For me, it can make for an overly-busy, cluttered design. There's a need for the suit to incorporate a dozen or more individual elements, and that can lead a designer to some very More Is Better looks.

These are not hard rules! Some series approach these problems better than others. Build Genius, for example, is maybe my favorite suit in the series. This is all very subjective! Sometimes it's as simple as not liking a design mandate. I am only human, and I got human biases.

(Cosmic States, though! I hate those chest buttons!)

I was thinking of saying I agree that simple is better for me to when it comes to suits, but my favourite final form might actually be Ex-Aid's Muteki Gamer, which is about as audacious as it gets, so I guess that just further makes the point that it's all gut feelings anyway!

Cosmic States' dashboard chest is kinda clumsy-looking though, but it's fun to imagine Fourze just rapidly and repeatedly tapping at his chest like a keyboard.

Yeah, and, like, I got into Kamen Rider through Ex-Aid, which makes my whole argument in favor of simplicity wildly hypocritical. (Although, my counter-argument would be that I like one idea, and the Ex-Aid one idea is All Things At Once.)

My decision-making on what I like in suit design is probably less of a flow-chart, and more of that thing that keeps lottery balls bouncing around until one randomly shoots out.

Oh man, you are going to have thoughts about Decade Complete.

For what it's worth, I generally agree with you. I'll happily take Blaster or Zero-Two over stuff like Infinity or Cosmic.

I'm pretty sure I saw it in the Decade/Double movie, and, uh... I do not remember being a fan.

2PM tomorrow. Round the back of your shop. Bring your Ryuki belt, Tatake, we're fighting

Just think how boring this fandom would be if everyone had the same opinions! These angry feelings are how you know you're alive! You are very welcome!

(I'm honestly a little afraid that my next random comment about my likes and dislikes is going to trigger, like, Burning Kurona.)

Sounds like someone's hating on Infinity, the best Wizard design, no I am not taking questions at this time.

Pfft, no way.



Shining's way cooler.

(I also adore Infinity Style.)

My hope was that we'd eventually get to Shining after Burning. Like, I'd say something about which Cross-Z design I like best and you'd get so furious that you'd become Burning Kurona. Then, the clouds would part, you'd remember that Kurona Is Kurona, and bam, Shining Kurona.

Then I'd be detonated for thinking wrong things.

No, I meant Ghost's final form. I had to look up what it's called and Google said "Infinity." The wiki apparently just calls it "Mugen Damashii," though, which feels very TV-Nihon. I legitimately cannot remember what the fansubs I watched called it.

I see your a woman of culture *high fives*

Sometimes, this thread is just the best.

The best.

I have a much more positive outlook on this subplot. The way I see it, there's two conflicting things the Takkun, Orphenoch! plotline needed to work.

A. There can't be any legitimate reason to be scared of Takumi, because that would inevitably justify his self-loathing, and undermine the entire point of the story being told.

B. There has to be a bigger thing to drive a wedge between Takumi and his friends, or else the plot risks either losing the heightened, melodramatic tension that characterizes the series, or, even worse, making the characters look completely heartless in an attempt to get the tone there anyway.

Now, the solution Inoue arrived at was naturally to give the characters a legitimate reason to be scared of Takumi, but make it a lie. There's no denying how heavy-handed this is, and if you're arguing from the perspective there was no need for any of this to begin with, fair enough. Inoue seems to enjoy writing himself into and out of corners so much his business card probably reads "Writer/Escape Artist". It's not a great habit, and there probably was a way to avoid getting into this scenario.

I still feel there's some worthwhile material in it though. It becomes less about how the audience perceives the information (I'd be shocked to find a child watching who wasn't just waiting for Takkun to be Faiz again), and more about how the characters themselves react. Showing Takumi being this willing to believe he murdered people, especially, is exploring his character in an interesting way, I think. The whole incident, it serves to flare up tensions that don't magically go away when the matter is resolved. Again, going back to Takumi, he still hasn't accepted himself even by the end of this episode, because this entire experience has driven him that much deeper into his belief he's destined to end up hurting people.

Is it forced and shaky? Definitely at least a little! But the worst possible thing happening at the worst possible time is Faiz's kind of storytelling, and I think at least much worked about this plotline as it didn't. I agree on the whole the Ryuusei School stuff is by far the least interesting material in the series, but good things come out of it sometimes, and this is one of them, in my opinion.

No, bad Die! Don't you dare go dissing Mari for this! Moments like these are why she's my favorite Rider heroine ever. The fact that she specifically tries using the Faiz Gear twice here knowing it won't work even before the first attempt is pure, reckless, irrational heroism, and I love it. How active she is. Yeah, there's no way that was going to end well, but there's also no way that'd stop her from trying.

Ah fairs, my brain just always parses them as "Infinity" for Wizard and "Mugen" for Ghost. It might mean the same, but there's probably reasons I could speculate on as to *why* the language difference is there. I think Over-Time used Infinite? The most recently I'll have seen that is probably one of the Heisei Generations films, and I wasn't watching those to pay attention to the transformation belts.

(Ghost Mugen... I'm not the biggest fan, but it's grown on me, design-wise.)

When talking about morals and acts like this, I sincerely hope to throw away all the subjectivity and look without any biases.

And I wish for any in-character reason like this to get acknowledged in discussions, without always labelling anything as plot armor to protagonists. Also talking about Mari surviving? She wasn't in the fight at all and just got into the scene after Kitazaki goes away. You meant Takumi? And for Murakami it's the good ol' other Riders arriving to fight him off, and please tell me that Murakami wasn't in trouble and just got away (I know Riders use double finishers, but finishers have been blocked before).

I agree about your questions here, about why Mari didn't remember (the memories returning can be excusable, but her forgetting), why Kusaka lied (he's a manipulator, but dunno what would he gain from this), every kid forgot. So far for those I can't explain anything here to correct. So it's not that the mystery genre is a bad one to you that it's the execution here? Or what... dunno I seem want to know about this, as previously you only tolerate if a mystery part is like this (ex: all questions having same answer and only in 1-2 episodes) which still kind of denying the genre. BTW at least for Takumi it's clear here, that is in the flashback there was more than 1 Orphnochs, there are the one killed by Takumi, Takumi himself, and Kitazaki. Takumi isn't OOC at all and tried to use his Orphnoch power to fight them off, but him being Orphnoch makes him feared by others and mistakenly assumed to be one of them.

Hey! Potential of Takumi living there and seeing more!

Which unfortunately got an infamy like in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqDMquGK91M
But yeah, this moment is just to show another proof of unfairness with females unable to henshin. But for this series, non-Orphnoch can't henshin. Like Keitaro too for Faiz. So it's not about gender but it's about which species you are. Though dunno what's wrong with Rina that she has worse showings as Delta than even Mihara (in previous episode, compared to Takumi). For Mari part it's nothing more than determination.

This franchise is pretty amazing!

It's just, I don't think they needed to invent a reason to be afraid of Takumi as an Orphnoch, because everything was right there. You've got a character like Sawada, who undermined the possibility that Orphnochs are universally looking for redemption. You've got a series worth of mostly viewing Orphnochs as monsters. You've got the easy, visceral, cruel reactions of Keitaro and Mari, stung by the way they found out and scared of what else they might not know about Takumi. You've got Takumi, ready to have the worst thought about him. You've got Kusaka in the wings, ready to fan the flames of suspicion and resentment. Like, it's all there. All of the melodrama was basically already generated!

It was already compelling, because all of the prejudices and assumptions have been baked into the show and now they're bearing fruit; and heightened, because the star of the show just turned into a wolfman. Having a murder mystery on top of that... I don't know that it increased the tension so much as it diffused the focus.

The way you equate "constantly injuring yourself" with "heroism" makes me suspect that you, too, are a graduate/survivor of the Ryusei School. It's all clear to me now, Fish.

She wasn't in the fight, but she was there at the cliffhanger. I never assumed that Kitazaki wouldn't take a shot at her afterwards. He's unpredictable!

It's definitely the execution here, for me. I think season-long mysteries are one of the toughest things to land in Kamen Rider, but it can be done. I think Build did a pretty good job with their season-long stuff, probably another series I can't remember right this second. It's hard, though. Real easy to have it become frustrating or just not feel worth the effort.

The Rina part is what bothered me. (The Mari part was pretty charming for its indefatigable heroism. Don't tell Fish Sandwich!) Every other Ryusei kid got to kick ass with the Delta Gear, and she got beat immediately. The show couldn't let her get in one good punch?!

I think this might be the core of the disagreement we're having on this? I really can't imagine any "what else they might not know" that would get Keitarou and especially Mari to react in a negative enough way to actively push Takumi away without making it look like they've just arbitrarily decided none of the previous 30+ episodes of Takumi being grumpy, but never shady counts. It wasn't too long before this that Mari was giving a relatively glowing evaluation of Takumi's fundamentally good nature to Yuuji. There's a lot of trust built up between them by this point, and it would logically take a lot to test it. Kusaka would have to be spinning s*** out of nothing, and since, as I've pointed out, he likes to work the truth into his lies, that isn't really his style. I feel like that approach would've taken an absurd amount of fine-tuning to not just end up feeling even more contrived than what we got.

Look, I'm just saying, it's a common theme! How much did I talk about Yuusuke getting horribly injured during my Kuuga write-ups? How often was Eiji sitting around in bandages during OOO? How many times did Sento give an inspirational speech while picking himself up off the ground after getting beaten up in Build? I'm not saying you have to repeatedly injure yourself to be a hero, I'm just saying that if you are a hero, it tends to happen a lot!

Yeah, I feel like it wouldn't have been a huge stretch. In general, if you've known someone for a while and they've hidden a massive secret from you, something that feeds into some of your fears and prejudices, I think it's easy to wonder what else they might be keeping from you. Everything about Takumi's reveal is played as WAIT WHAT HOW, and they aren't doing super great even before Mari shares her suspicions. (Keitaro in particular is barely holding it together, and that dude loves Takumi.)

Like, I think they could've leveraged some of Mari's feelings about Sawada to fill the gap of what the murder mystery contributed. She just got briefly killed by someone she trusted who was an Orphnoch. If they'd played with that idea for a little bit, rather than letting it sublimate into I'm Swallowing My Fear To Help Takumi (a plot point I really liked!), I think you could do a lot of the same stuff.

cool cool but they managed to turn on their belts at least once before that tho right

I think my problem there is that I don't think the situation with Sawada can be compared to Takumi in that manner. Mari got killed by Sawada after he spent several episodes actively expressing his desire to kill people and talking all about how stupid and dumb all his old friends are. Usually both at once. I guess maybe if once the truth was revealed, Takumi immediately started actively trying to push everyone away by pretending he felt that way? Which would then completely eliminate all the stuff you liked with him trying to do the exact opposite of that for once and being rejected anyway?

I just don't think there are a lot of easy answers to this one.

I guess I'm not comparing them so much as trying to link together two plotlines for efficiency's sake?

The Mari plotline with Sawada, she never really deals with it? Sawada turns on her, kills her, and then the next scene she has with him is all about trying to save Takumi. I feel like there's a middle section where she needs to process what happened to her, and while Takumi has been revealed to be an Orphnoch seems like a pretty dramatically fertile place to do that? Like, making Mari's trauma be about how she was betrayed and didn't deal with that, I think it's a two birds/one stone situation? Mari being screwed up while Takumi doesn't know how to deal with her being screwed up, that's the part of the story I thought worked, and I think they could manage that with what was already going on at the time.

I don't know, I don't mean to rewrite the show. This is just how my brain tries to deal with a couple simultaneous things that I thought the show could do better with.

And that's more than fair! I absolutely can't fault anyone for wanting a story with as much fat trimmed off it as possible.

KAMEN RIDER 555 EPISODE 40

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/faiz/faiz40a.png

--1--

I do like the new suit! As a Ryuki fan, I dig the silver chest plate over the red bodysuit. I’m a little surprised that they went with that color scheme the year after Ryuki aired, but maybe kids didn’t notice? Still, it’s a very cool look that has an energy to it that sells the concept of Unbridled Power or whatever. It’s a neat design!

And, shit, what an action sequence to debut it! If I was a kid in Japan watching this, I would be begging a parent to get me that toy. It’s strong enough to handle the deadliest Orphnochs, it’s got a giant sword, it’s got shoulder cannons, and it’s got a jetpack. It’s the coolest Rider that’s been on the show so far, and it cut a train car in half.

Incredibly fun opening for a show!

--2--

My favorite touch in the episode, though, was how the appearance of Faiz Blaster (yes?) affected Kitazaki. To explain why, I’m going to go slightly off-topic.

Let me talk about Orange Cassidy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td47Xp3q_ho
(I was at that event, it was phenomenal.)

Orange Cassidy is one of my favorite wrestlers right now. He’s in AEW, which is my favorite wrestling promotion right now. When AEW was set up at the C2E2 convention this past February, and we (me and my business partner) were there for one day to do a bunch of business stuff, we absolutely spent an hour of that precious time standing in line to get a photo with Orange Cassidy.

The thing with Orange Cassidy, though, is that he’s the most low-energy wrestler ever. That’s his gimmick. He slowly walks to the ring. He rolls in under the bottom rope. He wrestles with his hands in his pockets. His superkicks, normally aimed at an opponent’s head, connect weakly with their shins. It’s like watching someone wrestle in slow-motion.

And the crowd eats it up. Ever minor movement is treated with a roar, like it’s the most impressive physical display of all time. It’s hilarious. Being in the crowd for an Orange Cassidy match is electric.

But there’s a thing that happens in each match, where, out of nowhere, Orange Cassidy turns it on. He gets fired up, he starts sprinting around the ring, leaping through the air like an acrobat. The joke, said by the announcers, is that He’s Going To Try.

That’s pretty much what I thought about, as Kitazaki lost his shit after narrowly escaping Faiz Blaster. He’s a bored combatant, slacking off during fights because he doesn’t feel challenged. But now, now that he was whipped so soundly, He’s Going To Try.

I’m looking forward to it!

--3--

This episode, though! I mean, if you can tell by how much of this episode I just spent talking about a North American wrestler, this episode didn’t really land for me.

There’s ways I’m trying to talk myself into finding something positive, but I don’t love talking myself into liking something. I didn’t like this one, you guys.

It’s pretty much all because of how the show centers itself, and what Mari and Takumi are dealing with, on the Redemption Of Sawada.

Like, that is a gamble. That is a character that has earned basically zero sympathy, and he gets the sad death scene. That is the emotional crux of the episode, and the only way it works is if you feel Sawada’s death is something to avenge. And, I don’t?

It’s a very Kamen Rider thing, to take someone responsible for atrocities (Sawada has killed so many people) and say Well He Was Just Confused And Hurting. And, sure, Sawada didn’t ask to be made an Orphnoch. And Sawada was having a difficult time navigating his human emotions with his Orphnoch freedoms. But he killed so many people. He killed Mari. I don’t know that he ever apologized for any of that? Ever?

So that part of it, for me, completely didn’t land. I was not looking for the show to redeem Sawada, and its attempt made a whole lot of false assumptions about how that character made me feel. As a way of unifying Mari and Takumi’s story, though, it worked a little better, with a couple huge caveats.

Honestly, though, the scene of Mari and Takumi just talking in the church was doing all the work for me. If they hadn’t interrupted it for the fight, it would’ve made this episode a winner. I liked that it neatly closed off the storyline about acceptance by leaving it up to Takumi. Mari can accept him, but Takumi has to feel like he deserves that acceptance. He has to hear Mari say he’s her friend and a good person, and he needs to feel like those statements are valid. I think that scene gets 75% to where it needs to be in its truncated form.

The rest of that storyline concludes with Sawada’s death, and what Sawada trying to redeem himself means to them.

The big problem I have is that I barely understand why Mari is so desperate to see Sawada redeemed. If I squint, I can see it as similar to Takumi’s hopes for Sawada earlier in the series, that it proves something about Takumi that Mari needs him to know. But, still, he straight up murdered her! Unapologetically! And she’s still assuming he’ll turn a corner! WHAT DOES SOMEONE HAVE TO DO ON THIS SHOW TO GET MARI TO DROP THE -KUN HONORIFIC?! Having her show this much blind faith in terrible people who have abused her and her trust… I don’t see it as a laudable character trait!

But, the point Mari’s trying to make is a good one, that it’s within Takumi’s power to be human instead of a monster. It’s a choice he gets to make. Sawada wasn’t a monster because he was an Orphnoch, he was a monster AND he was an Orphnoch. Just being an Orphnoch doesn’t make becoming a monster inevitable. It’s all just choices.

Or, that’s what I want to take out of that death scene, because the alternative is that Mari was willing to forgive both a weeks-long killing spree and her own goddamn murder because a boy who had a crush on her back in school helped out a friend of hers once. God, I hope that wasn’t supposed to be what I got out of that scene.

--4--

Still, at least wasn’t as hilariously (hilariously) stupid as the Delta stuff with Mihara and Rina.

It… I cannot take a single thing that happened in this plotline seriously. It’s ridiculously overwrought and so ludicrously high-stakes (Rina gets hit by a truck to save the Delta Gear that Mihara threw into the street!) that it’s practically a parody of a Hero’s Journey story.

Rina’s speech to Mihara, about how they have to fight to make a home, is mercifully brief, but also totally bizarre. People keep saying that Mihara has to fight to build a home, but I’m not seeing any proof of that. When Kusaka was saying it, you could (reasonably!) write it off as manipulative bullshit. Because, y’know, Kusaka was saying it. Here… is Rina brain damaged? Is that the excuse? Because I’m pretty sure Mihara has a literal home to go to, and a job. Just let the man quit being a superhero already. The Delta Gear works for literally anyone. Let Mari wear it, for chrissakes. There are so many people in Japan who are allowed to live normal lives, let Mihara be one of them already.

I mean, I’m ranting about it, but it was gloriously stupid. Just jaw-droppingly ill-considered. My compliments!

--5--

This show is in… oof. It ain’t in a great place. There’re things that work great (all the Mari and Takumi stuff sings, the Kaido/Yuka skit at the orphanage was funny), but the show keeps adding layers to the Ryusei School story that compare unfavorably in my mind to Agito (that Rina speech is 100% the Agito theme and is totally misplaced on this show), and it keeps backgrounding strong characters (Yuuji is a no-show, there’s the one Kaido/Yuka scene, remember when Keitaro had stories about him) to clutter up with a plot that doesn’t have an emotional weight to it.

I feel like I’m watching a great concert with a killer setlist, and then two-thirds of the way through the band’s like Hey Let’s Just Jam For The Rest Of The Night. It’s real frustrating to feel like the wheels are coming off of this thing, you guys!

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/faiz/faiz40b.png

The end of episode 40 is probably one of the most memorable visuals of Faiz, having all three Riders in one place and standing side-by-side. It's also the moment Takumi truly comes back into being Faiz, doing his whole proper transformation pose for the first time in what, a months worth of episodes? It still sticks with me to this day, especially since they played the special version of the theme song to make you as hype as possible right before the episode end. These cliffhangers are too cruel!!

I'm not entirely fond of how we got to that point though. I already had some minor issues here and there with Takumi's crisis, but having the last step that pushes him all the way towards being a hero again being Sawada's 'tragic' death? Eeeeeh... If you're going to have that, maybe rearrange events so it doesn't feel like it was the clincher to this whole arc. Like, have Mari and Takumi's really sweet talk come after Sawada's death, and it would feel a lot more like both of them had come to a conclusion about themselves from the event. As it is, Sawada's death kinda overtakes the previous scenes and it almost gives the impression that Takumi is rushing into battle in honour of him.

Plus Mihara's reason to be there is not compelling and almost nonexistent. Plus plus in the back of my mind, I was still waiting for Kusaka to be confronted by Takumi (or anyone, really) over his mountain of misdeeds. What I'm getting at is that the big moment of 'All the riders are finally together to fight the bad guys!' even if it is just an isolated moment, has so many caveats. ...But I still get really hype about it!? Both the first time I saw it and even now. It makes you look forward to them wailing on Orange Kitasidy!

Faiz Blaster is cool. He gets a briefcase-shaped machine that unfolds into a big gun and sword. Eat your heart out, G3-X.

I just... I really like that it was Takumi's choice to become Faiz again. He didn't do it because he had to, and he didn't do it because he was allowed to. He did it because he finally believed he deserved to. I like how that gives him some emotional agency, if that makes sense.

Honestly, I get why Takumi doesn't confront Kusaka, and why he probably never will. Takumi is generally pretty okay with people having a bad opinion of him, and I don't think he's too busted up if Kusaka (who is a notorious asshole) tries to give him shit.

It's the Mari stuff that I find more mystifying. That lady... I was always thought she was the sensible one, you know? Real hard for me to get right with how the show has her acting in this episode.

I think the idea is just that she really does think of everyone from the Ryuusei School as family? Looking at it that way, I think it's at least a little understandable where she's coming from.

Honestly, I feel like you're being harsh on this episode? The way I see it, and I think the way it plays out supports this interpretation, the whole point is that Sawada was that awful. Right after the Faiz Blaster fight, Kusaka confronts Takumi, telling him he still can't be trusted because there's no telling when he'll completely become an Orphenoch like Sawada, which of course plays perfectly into Takumi's fears, and causes him to walk off again. The thought that even if he's a good person now, he could just cease to be that way, and end up like Sawada, it's exactly why he refuses to have any faith in himself.

So when Sawada, a guy who spent his entire run on the show actively trying to throw away his humanity, turns out to be incapable of fully doing that in the end, when he realizes talking to Mari that Sawada is going to fight Lucky Clover to save him, that's where everything finally becomes clear to Takumi. If a guy who sunk that low, and did that many awful things can still have even the slightest part of him that's still worth saving, maybe it's not that crazy for Takumi to believe in himself after all. And then he stands up.

The scene afterwards where Sawada actually dies, it's definitely kind of a bonus at that point, but I don't see it as some black mark on the episode. I don't see the takeaway as him needing to be "avenged", per se. I just explained Mari's reaction, and for Takumi, again, a lot of this is just about witnessing that part of Sawada that's still worth saving. And of course Takumi would be sad about failing to do that. That's what makes him Takumi, and why it was so irrational how scared he was of himself, something the show makes a point of with the "you're a victim here too" moment between him and Sawada earlier. If the show tried to get sappy and it didn't land for you, I guess that's that, but, I don't know, I feel the story being told here is perfectly solid.

...Aside from the stuff with Mihara, admittedly. I think you've gotten to a point in the show where I'm no longer coloring your opinion prematurely by pointing out that one of the big problems with Mihara's plotline is that it completely refuses to connect meaningfully with the other main characters. The fact that he debuted right as Takumi quit being Faiz and the status quo went down the drain means he's never really had time to develop meaningful relationships with most of the cast, and the show doesn't seem too interested in correcting that mistake. It'd rather just have him and Rina off in his own world, with only the occasional phone call from Kusaka dragging him back into the story, and, as much as I genuinely don't not like Mihara, man does it not work!

You deemed Sawada an irredeemable character not long after his introduction so I was curious to see how you would react to having your expectations subverted.

I don't think his death needs to be avenged. His killer was Kusaka after all who was in turn avenging Mari. He lived like a monster and earned the right to be killed as one. However, he died like a human, so I think he earned a little sympathy and a sad death scene as well. There was once a humanity to him. To Mari, it was a kindness, but to him, it was a weakness holding him back. No matter how many people he killed in cold blood, it still burdened him. Killing people didn't give him any satisfaction.

In the end, he couldn't throw away his humanity. He never wanted to become an Orphenoch in the first place. Just like so many of his Ryusei School friends, his backstory made him dysfunctional and impressionable. Smart Brain taught him how to be a monster, that he couldn't live as a human. Being a monster doesn't mean you have to act like one though, it's very relevant to the same problem Takumi is going through. While there are some, like Skateboard Guy, who were killing people without prompt, Smart Brain is most of the problem, coercing Orphenochs to kill when they don't have to or even want to.

Seeing Sawada hold on to his humanity, as he tried in vain to throw it away, was proof that Orphenochs aren't inherently bad people. Being one isn't a condemnation for Takumi, he's a human and a monster and he has the power inside him to choose who he wants to be. It's all about the sense of identity and self, which he's searching to understand. He defines himself by how others see him but here he learns that how he sees himself is also important. He might have no self-confidence, he might suck, but still....

He's Kamen Rider Faiz, a protector of dreams.

That's the thing about Mihara. He's always there, even if he is irrelevant.

I feel like it's not the idea behind the episode that I'm opposed to, it's the execution of it. Using Sawada's attempt at sacrifice as a way to tip Takumi back over into seeing himself as something less than a timebomb, I like that idea. If even the worst of them have some humanity, doesn't that allow Takumi to feel like he's able to be a good person?

It's just, I still feel like there's a part of the Mari/Sawada stuff that's missing, and it really taints his use in this story. I never, once, got a feeling like we saw Mari deal with being murdered. Because of that, her interactions with Sawada feel like they're drawn from a different series, one where he didn't murder her.

And, I guess the main thing is that, thematically, Sawada's story in this one is about how it impacts Takumi's story, but the minutiae is about Sawada's journey, Sawada's choices, Sawada's suffering, and... I don't have as much interest in that as maybe I'd need to? My interest is in Mari and Takumi, but the show is definitely asking me to consider what Sawada is going through.

Maybe that's my fault, and it's me being unfair. Maybe the show is telling a nuanced, empathetic story about Sawada and I'm just folding my arms, refusing to engage it on its own terms. I don't know. I hope not, and I'm sorry if I am.

You don't need to apologise for seeing something differently! Otherwise, I would have demanded an apology when you dissed Burning Form.

I basically had the same reaction myself though. The way the scenes are presented read to me like the emotional crux and focus was mainly on Sawada, since its only seconds after he dies when Takumi leaps back into action. For me personally, all it would take to make it work better is if right between Sawada's death and Takumi joining the fight was just a brief exchange where Mari goes 'i dont want that to happen to you too' and Takumi being like 'i wont', or even just Takumi giving a line in that spirit in response to Sawada's death. Yeah some subtlety would have been lost, but it would have put the focus in the right place right before moving to the final scene, I think.

Some of it is also about how heroic it is to have sympathy for Sawada. Not that he deserves it, or has earned it, but that Mari and Takumi (Takumi specifically) trying to redeem him shows their character.

And, I get it if people think that that's brave of them, generous of them, but I just have a tough time applying it to someone like Sawada. Some people are suffering, and they need someone to try and help them. Sometimes, it's after they've done something horrible, something regrettable. But sometimes people show you who they are, and you need to believe them. Sawada spent a ton of time being absolutely merciless. I know that we're supposed to view his activities as the result of trauma, as the result of horrible events, but he still did them. And, man, he never really tried to atone for them. At the end, there's a kind of negation he attempts, ridding the world of Sawada, a monster. I do lament his outcome, the path his life ended up taking. But, man, he killed a ton of people.

I don't know. I think the construction of Sawada's character, and the use of him as the example of If Even He Can Find Some Good Within Himself... I just couldn't get to where the show need me to be in order to see Mari's and Takumi's decisions as reasonable.

Honestly, as probably one of the bigger Mihara fans out there, I'd argue this is backwards. It's more like he's always irrelevant, even if he's there. :lol

Aw geez, I wasn't trying to make you feel like you have to apologize...

It's just... I don't know, I guess I just personally thought Sawada's plotline played out in a really clever and interesting way, especially with them planting that seed well before it becomes apparent it was kind of always commenting on Takumi's arc, and I really loved how it comes together in the end and leads into the completion of the holy trinity of quotable Takkun speeches. This is an episode I really like, so it's maybe disappointing to see you not feeling it so much yourself. I have a track record of buying into these villain "redemption" stories easier than I think you do, which is probably part of it, and I understand your point about Mari (although on the other hand, she does admit she understands now he's not the same person anymore when confronting him about the reunion in the previous episode, which I don't think is a minor moment), but...

Like I said, I don't know. I guess we'll always have Adel.

This is Faiz' final form Blaster Form..... what do you expect for it handling the deadliest Orphnoch? For me I would think the suit is what I like less about the form though, with the suit is nothing but just the same. Faiz suit that is re-coloured red (it probably makes more sense though with Faiz being the most technological one between the Riders so far), unless that you're already such a fan of Faiz suit (which is sizable) that you wish to keep it like that. And if you're already considering this one as cool af.... you're missing out! Yeah... the Faiz Blaster actually debuted in Paradise Lost, and the one in this episode is nothing compared to that. The shoulder cannons are Bloody Cannons... and the one displayed in this episode has much more impact than it does in various videogames.

So Kitazaki's the type who wants to be entertained, but goes apeshit at struggles and losses. Now what does he want? Eh then again he's a teenager who is exactly that, doesn't know what he wants.

I'm on board with you, as you've pointed out, Sawada still did them no matter what he has gone through. I got sick of people giving others (like various villainous characters) free pass because of bad backstory, pointing out "do you understand what they're going through?", and even treating them as not actually evil, just misunderstood or something because "they're only made that way due to that backstory", and of course ignoring everything bad they've done.

Though as others've explained, this serves as a drive for Takumi to gain some confidence in himself, and that actually works for him because how horrible Sawada has been lately. Takumi sees that even some of the worst kind of Orphnoch can have a sliver (a sliver, tiny!) of humanity left inside them, then Takumi shouldn't fear himself too much of going fully monstrous. Probably yeah with how his death scene played it expects to be a tragic loss for the cast with someone (formerly) close to him, Mari, standing and mourning besides him. But this episode has answered most of my confusion with him narrating what happened to every Ryusei School alumnis that they forgot what happened.

Speaking otherwise, the one I'm actually confused was not Mari being desperate to see Sawada redeemed, but in inverse, Takumi's hopes for Sawada, just because he's a friend of friend. Mari's desperation is more understandable that she sees him as a family like every Ryusei School alumnis (they're undoubtedly, the closest to each others), while not for Takumi who, you know, tried to distance himself from Ryusei School alumnis earlier.

Anyways, for "There’s ways I’m trying to talk myself into finding something positive, but I don’t love talking myself into liking something. I didn’t like this one, you guys.", what if something you don't like feels unfair to others, and that they want to talk about that in positive sense to correct that and gives more proper insight and understanding?

When Mihara's cowardice now actually is disastrous in this episode, to almost cost a dear friend's life. But yeah anyone can transform into Delta... but Delta has side effects. Some side effects include the user becoming mentally unstable and developing an addiction to using the Gear, as well as developing minor Orphnoch-like powers. Those with strong enough will or just dislike fighting in general, can use the Delta Gear without the mentioned side effects (Saya was able to use it properly but it may contributed to her illness).

How did Kaido get to volunteer for that orphanage anyway? Yuka obviously assists him. Also for Keitaro, soon you'll see in few next episodes.

The characters are generous to them, but doesn't mean the audience are expected to act the same because y'know, every people are different, either characters or real life person. The characters have different thoughts about that person because for example, strong bond Ryusei School students like Mari have with each other, but others wouldn't be exactly the same, like audience who are able to see things more objectively (or in inverse, tolerate them much more than you would irl) because of them being fictional characters. Though yeah with him having tragic death scene, it can certainly feel like that. But as I said I'm on board with you on this and everything's explained above.

Hey, here's the one where I apologize for making people uncomfortable by apologizing before! I hope I didn't come off as offended or thin-skinned. I get that these episodes can mean a lot to people, and as I said on my first day on these boards, that last thing I ever want to do is be unfair about a show. I try to be open to what a show is trying to say, and judge it on its own merits, and I was concerned that I wasn't doing that. As always, it is very cool with me if folks don't agree with what I'm saying! That's fun to read and respond to!

I guess my final thoughts on Sawada are that I liked him as a villain, but I wasn't able to find the sympathy the show wanted me to discover at the end of his story. As a villain, his motivation is inherently tragic. He was killed by a monster, and became a monster to protect himself. His humanity previously made him weak, made him a victim, gave him something to lose, so he tried to shed all of that and crush his humanity through murder. That villainy, where it's a sick form of psychological self-preservation, I think that's got a lot of narrative juice.

But, yeah, I couldn't quite get his story to square up with what Takumi and Mari's stories were doing. I see everyone's points, and I'm genuinely glad that other folks got more out of it, but Sawada's villainy was just too intense for me to make that story work the way the show intended.

Yeah, that's the part I struggled with. I can see the edges of what the show's going for (again, I think it's meant to be the bookend to Takumi's earlier hope that Sawada was good inside), and I think it happening just as Takumi's starting to think he might not have to be a monster is crucial, but it's definitely a story where I could see what they were trying to say without necessarily believing in it.

I mean, I definitely want to hear them out! If there's some detail I've overlooked or thematic link I've ignored, yeah, please, let me know.

That said, I'm not sure if my opinion of something is going to change due to that conversation. I definitely want to hear opinions that run counter to mine, but I'm not necessarily looking to be convinced. Honestly, I'm not trying to convince others, either? I don't look at these discussions as a way to prove a point or whatever. I like talking about what I got out of a piece of art, and I like hearing what other people got out of a piece of art. That's pretty much the whole thing.

He's a local hero! Plus, I gotta assume even Smart Brain-sponsored orphanages are okay if two folks volunteer candy and toys for underprivileged children.

No, no, it's pretty much the exact opposite. I'm so impressed by how open you are to the idea you might not be seeing a bigger picture it almost made me feel like a piece of s*** for even bothering to disagree in the first place. It's the Internet, right? Even though you've been at this for a while now, and I should really know better, I still sort of inherently expect negativity to be bull-headed and extreme. If you were in here going "sorry not sorry, Fish et al., but the Sawada plot is the WORST THING EVER, and you're all $@#@% for liking it. Also, I actually hate this show because it RUINED KAMEN RIDER FOREVER, even though I never liked Kamen Rider because it SUCKS AND IS OVERRATED", there's a part of me that wouldn't be surprised. It doesn't mean that's what I want! It's very admirable to be able to express opinions in a calm and collected manner!

oh my god

you're takumi

you've taken all this negativity and thought "yep, sounds about right"

oh no

fish

fish sandwich

you're a victim here too

KAMEN RIDER 555 EPISODE 41

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--1--

I absolutely recognized that stunning head of hair: it's Truegami, the "real” Shouichi Tsugami from Agito!

I wonder how it feels to be someone who worked on Agito, someone who might currently be looking for work, and see another Agito dude get a role on Faiz. I mean, Houjou, sure, of course. I'm not sure why that guy stopped getting cast on Kamen Riders. But Truegami? If you're one of the Akatsuki-gou mutants, I wonder if you're feeling a little resentful.

--2--

Man, this episode was a blast. A hundred percent back to where I like Faiz as a show. The happiness feels earned, and the tragedy feels inevitable. Everything feels organic, consequential. It's no longer weird outside forces pulling people apart or drawing them together, it's all character logic and emotional dilemmas.

I mean, a Yuka spotlight episode? That reaffirms that she's killed a whole bunch of people? That digs into whether or not she's fooling herself by embracing a human life? Hell yes.

I'm really into the idea of Lucky Clover recruiting Yuka. It was teased a million years ago, but since then it's mostly been left alone. Here, she's a natural choice after losing Sawada and having Kitazaki on the shelf. She's powerful, subtle, and notoriously conflicted. With the right push, she's someone who could do a lot for Lucky Clover.

And that right push is probably a full-on tactical assault, I guess? Jesus, it's a million cops who swarm her outside the park. It definitely feels like the type of impossible situation that's going to activate Yuka's well-known Fight Or Flight Or Massacre response, and that makes for a suitably tense conclusion to the episode.

It's just, how do the cops know about Orphnochs all of a sudden? I'm not sure if this is a plotpoint (as I'm hoping) or a plothole (as I fear). Nothing's been public about Orphnochs, as far as I can recall. It could be that the cops have known more about all this than Soeno was privy to, so a special team of Orphnoch hunters could make sense. Or it could all be a Smart Brain ruse, making Yuka feel like Lucky Clover is the only way to protect herself. I hope we find out soon, ‘cause that was something that stuck out to me. Otherwise, I'm really excited to see where this all goes.

--3--

Overall, though, man, this was a very sweet epilogue to all of the last arc's misery. Like I said, the happiness amongst the cast is so earned. Takumi is coming home, and he's going to stay this time.

It's heartwarming, you know? Emotionally, seeing characters you love exist in a state of perpetual gloom is... I mean, I don't love that with the world being the way it is right now. It's grueling, to feel that way. So this, them all healed and happy, it's great. I mean, shit, the look on Yuuji's face when Takumi calls and asks him if he needs any laundry done! Or when Yuuji's all I Knew You Could Do It and Takumi's all Aw Shucks I'm Still Not As Good As You... like, the chemistry on display! (Mari is such a third-wheel in that scene!) Astonishing. TAKKIBA FOREVER!

And, like, a big thumbs up to reigniting the romantic hijinks of the Keitaro/Kaido/Yuka story. It's all so goofy, but it's something this show has proven pretty adept at juggling. Plus, I think it's a necessary counterbalance to all of the Orphnoch shit that Yuka has to go through later in the story. I like seeing her trying to get a boy to like her, while letting another boy know that she doesn't like him. (The way she calls Keitaro a child for not wanting to eat onions! Fantastic!) It grounds her character for me, makes her real in a way that gives so much more gravity to her world collapsing later. She's a complicated character, and I love that this episode gave her so much to do.

Just, seriously, such a sweetly entertaining episode. Very thankful for it.

--4--

Also, look, credit where it's due? Kusaka was completely on his asshole game this episode.

First, he gets an AOE Snark Attack in on both Takumi and Mihara to kick off the episode. In one bit of dialogue he sarcastically thanks Takumi for finally finding the resolve to fight while staring Mihara dead in the eyes, then tells Takumi that his resolve is irrelevant because he's still an Orphnoch and he'll eventually betray them. I mean, come on. How am I supposed to be mad at someone who's that great at running people down verbally?

And then, and then, when everyone's at the park? It's just the six original members of Team Faiz and Team Orphnoch enjoying each other's company, but as soon as Yuuji and Takumi start flirting, THERE'S KUSAKA, tagging along just to tell people they suck. It's.. perfect? It's the best deployment yet of Kusaka's very particular set of skills, which is being the worst person alive.

I'm not saying I've, like, forgiven him or anything, but holy shit he's so remarkably awful in this episode that I was dying.

--5--

Real top-flight episode. Everything felt like it was pulling in the same direction: the fun hangout stuff, the cop stuff, the Lucky Clover stuff... even the Mihara/Rina scene basked in the warmth of everything working out for a minute.

It's just, it is such a relief to not be worrying about this show anymore. I never know if an episode not working for me is an episode not working for me, or if it's the first episode not working for me. This one was great, though! It was using all the right muscles to tell a very Faiz story, and I dug it. I'm glad I didn't lose faith in their ability to tell stories I'd like!

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