Originally Posted by Locke (Post 209356)

A) Yeah but you're quoting fan theories and telling me the what, that still answers none of my questions. Same with the philosophers stone, I know what it does but I have no idea what it does in this show. That is my problem with this episode, this was supposed to be the everything comes together episode and yet nothing got answered.

Originally Posted by Kagezuno (Post 209508)

Fueki's a brilliant physicist, mastered magic, and the best name he could come up with for his Phantom was "Carbuncle?!"

Originally Posted by Den-O (Post 209512)

Why does it even have a name if he's Wiseman anyway?

Originally Posted by KamenRiderOOO (Post 209528)

Carbuncles in mythology are spirits with jewels or gemstones in their head. So it's more that he's that type of Phantom, rather than adopting the name

Originally Posted by KRX (Post 209477)

Originally Posted by Locke (Post 209593)

But that is the problem! It's so frustrating, this series takes so much unnecessary flack and I'm always jumping in to defend it. Then the one time I have a genuine, major concern with the series everyone is jumping in to defend the series and tell me how I'm wrong. This community is so nuts sometimes.

Originally Posted by KRX (Post 209597)

So you're basically asking for an explanation of magic? I don't know of any piece of fiction that has come up with an explanation of magic. Kamen Rider Wizard basically says that in order to perform magic, you need to have a Phantom inside of you. You also need a Driver and Wizard Rings.

Originally Posted by Locke (Post 209605)

Yes. Yes I am. I'm reading the Dresden Files alongside this which clearly defines what magic is, the set of rules and how it all works. Everything was explained in the latest Wizard episode with either the word 'magic', the word 'science' or the word 'Sabbat', you could make this into a hilarious word game pretty easily.

Originally Posted by baltmatrix (Post 209619)

Huh. This was a good ep. This was a very good ep. Good plot, good acting, good action. I'm impressed. And now with the news that Wizard is going to go for 53 eps they could easily make this a very strong finish.

Though I did have one complaint: I guessed that Koyomi was the p-stone way back when it was first mentioned. Wizard has NOT done a very good job of hiding it's story secretes .

Originally Posted by Locke (Post 209605)

Yes. Yes I am. I'm reading the Dresden Files alongside this which clearly defines what magic is, the set of rules and how it all works. Everything was explained in the latest Wizard episode with either the word 'magic', the word 'science' or the word 'Sabbat', you could make this into a hilarious word game pretty easily.

Originally Posted by KRX (Post 209622)

Here's everything I could find about magic in Kamen Rider Wizard:

*Magic Portals.
*Magic Stones.
*Gates.
*Phantom.

Basically, Gates are humans with magical potential. This potential is what allows them to create Phantoms when they fall into despair. If they are able to hold in the Phantom, they are able to use magic. To cast spells, a wizard needs a driver and a Wizard Ring. Wizard Rings are made from Magic Stones. There are many types of Magic Stones, each of which cast a different spell. When placed in front of a driver, a Wizard Ring opens a Magic Portal that casts the spell, be it a transformation spell or a general magical spell.

Phantoms are living organisms. Therefore, they contain DNA. Given the fact that Chimera exists, Phantoms have been around for centuries, so it is possible for Fueki to obtain the DNA of a Carbuncle Phantom, clone it in a laboratory, and implant it within himself to imbue magical potential into him.

The Philosopher's Stone is the most powerful type of Magic Stone. We don't know everything about it yet, but we do know is that it can reanimate the dead (though not their memories) and is used in the Sabbat. It needs a constant infusion of mana in order to function, mana which can only be provided by Wizards.

Originally Posted by Locke (Post 209624)

Once again. You're saying what, not how or why. As far as it goes, magic in this show involves suppressing a monster, putting a magic jewel in a ring and getting an annoying belt. Where do these stones come from? What is the belt, and how does it work? Why not turn those stones into bullets or something more practical? And yes, I am splitting hairs, but as I said a few posts above, magic is already a thing unlike homunculus medals or switches that control the universe or whatever, so there is no excuse for how little is explored or explained at all in this shows mythology. Exploration and playing with mythology is like the main thing I love about urban fantasy so I hate the lack of it here.

Hell for that matter, what is a Phantom, where does it come from? Why isn't everyone a Gate? These are the unique aspects of this shows lore, so at least explain these.

Originally Posted by KRX (Post 209629)

Phantoms are a species, with many subspecies populating their ranks. Why are some people Gates? I would think the same question can be asked for why some people have blonde hair or black hair or brown hair or purple hair with hot-pink polka dots. The belt is basically a magic wand. You could turn Magic Stones into bullets, but people just don't want to. Magic Stones come from Carbuncle Phantoms.

Most of our complaints are really nitpicks. I don't understand why you question a belt with a swappable hand buckle and how it works, and not a control panel that you shove switches into to gain power from a type of energy that doesn't exist in our universe.

Originally Posted by Den-O (Post 209628)

Why does any of that even matter? In this universe those things exist, why question how they exist or why they function? They simply do. Do people question why there's a time travelling train in Den-O? Sure, but the answer simply is there just is a time travelling train. No one questions why fangire exist in Kiva and have a hierarchy based on kings and queens. They just do, that's the nature of their race. Or how on Earth Kanzaki Shiro created high tech card decks and suits of armor for people to fight a rider war in Ryuki, when he was just a college student. He just did it, it was a basic premise of the series. Things like that don't always need ot be explained. You're looking way in depth for something that doesn't really need an explanation to be valid. That's just the way things are in Wizards' world.

Originally Posted by Locke (Post 209631)

You see, this all sounds really cool, if the show had explored all of this I probably would have enjoyed this episode way more. But yeah, this is the first major criticism I've had with the series really, for reasons I've explain multiple times and am going to explain to Den-O again.



Because magic is a thing. I can cut some slack for writers trying completely original ideas, but the whole magic and wizards thing has been fine tuned by authors for hundreds of years. When you're making it from the ground up, there is bound to be points where you literally can't answering everything and I wouldn't expect you too. But Wizard's writers, if ever stuck, only need to pop onto the nearest Wikipedia page for inspiration. There are like a billion magic types, and a billion more variations on the mythology, so how can everything in this show be so poorly realised? I understand space switches more than I understand the magic in this show, and there is a problem when that is a sentence you write with conviction.

Originally Posted by KRX (Post 209634)

I think you need to realize is that this is not a show meant to explore how magic works. This is a story about a guy who gets sucked into a whole world of trouble when a man tries to reanimate the dead. Yes, there are some very cool concepts in the show, but if you want explanations for them, you'll have to do some of the work on your own. Not even Lord of the Rings explained how magic works, and that is hailed as one of the greatest fantasies of all time. There not making the show from the ground up, they're tweaking elements from general fantasy. Instead of a magic wand and a spell, you have Wizard Rings and a Driver. Instead of mythical creature body parts to power the wand, you have Magic Stones to power the Wizard Rings. Instead of magical energy from an unknown source, you have mana from Phantoms. But in the end, the story is about the characters, not the concepts.

Originally Posted by Captain Marvelous (Post 209633)

Erm, Magic isn't supposed to make sense, that's why it's Magic. I'd expect Fourze to make be more logical since it's essentially Sci Fi but Wizard actually has more logic by comparison.

Originally Posted by Locke (Post 209593)

But that is the problem! It's so frustrating, this series takes so much unnecessary flack and I'm always jumping in to defend it. Then the one time I have a genuine, major concern with the series everyone is jumping in to defend the series and tell me how I'm wrong. This community is so nuts sometimes.

Originally Posted by Locke (Post 209636)

Yeah but why isn't it? Why isn't that the focus? He is called 'Wizard' this is the only Rider series to my knowledge that uses magic, the show constantly goes on about magic and Wizard's and yet any of Wizard's inner workings are something the show assumes expendable and brushes over.

The Wizard's themselves are far more interesting to me than anything else in this show, I'm still waiting to find out what Fueki meant when he called Beast an 'archetype', but I'm guessing it'll never come. I hope some point in the future they make a series that blends Blade's focus on the actual Rider's powers themselves and builds itself on an urban fantasy foundation like Wizard.

Originally Posted by Galvantula (Post 209638)

For the first time I think we're on the same page here, Locke. It's certainly been a strange ride overall with Wizard. People change their thoughts on it faster than any other Toku series and when it's all said and done I think we'll be able to fully and fairly judge it based on both its merits and quirks.

Originally Posted by KRX (Post 209639)

The Wizards may be interesting, but the show is about the people who are the Wizards, and not what makes the Wizards tick.



This isn't The Dresden Files. This is Kamen Rider. We have this:

http://www.kamen-rider.com/database/...fishhitler.jpg

Things were never meant to make sense.

Originally Posted by KRX (Post 209639)

This isn't The Dresden Files. This is Kamen Rider. We have this:

http://www.kamen-rider.com/database/...fishhitler.jpg

Things were never meant to make sense.

Originally Posted by Locke (Post 209642)

It really has, huh? Usually the table turns on the most bizarre things as well. I still remember that time I had a debate with Matrix, after his first enjoyed episode for ages was that one where the entire episode focused on a kid learning to ride a bike. And different strokes for different folks, but I could not fathom for the life of me how he could legitimately claim that a 'great' episode while so regularly shredding the show for everything else.

I will be interested to see what the sheep hivemind have to say about the series overall. I'm assuming going by current logic, if it has the most terrible finale out of Kamen Rider history, the hivemind will send out its drones to claim this the greatest Rider series of a generation.



I understand that this isn't the Dresden Files, but Magic can and most of the time does make sense. So that is no excuse for how little this show makes sense. But it's funny that people shred this series for the smallest, most pathetic shit and then when there is a genuine problem people are clambering in with the flimsiest arguments the can find to defend it. This is the most insane debate I think I've had here, I feel like I've fallen into this bizarro world where everyone loves Wizard but me. I dunno which universe I prefer, as in both I am alone.

Originally Posted by Galvantula (Post 209643)

That's true KRX, there's a lot that you have to accept when watching KR and for the most part I've been happy with its weirdness.

Wiz's weirdness just didn't click for me. I wish I could connect with the emotional impact of what just went down, but darn it I cannot.

I just wish the last few parts will go by smoothly and perhaps the show can at least have a strong finish.

Originally Posted by KRX (Post 209639)

The Wizards may be interesting, but the show is about the people who are the Wizards, and not what makes the Wizards tick.



This isn't The Dresden Files. This is Kamen Rider. We have this:

http://www.kamen-rider.com/database/...fishhitler.jpg

Things were never meant to make sense.

Originally Posted by KRX (Post 209658)

I never really had much of a problem with Wizard. Is it flawed? Undeniably. It doesn't use its side characters to their full potential, (R.I.P., Daimon Gunslinger,) it doesn't really focus on the larger, over-arching story as often as it should, I really don't like the color-scheme of the series, (everything is too saturated,) and it feels rushed at times. It is far from the best that Kamen Rider has produced, but when it does well, it does well, and when it fails, it's usually tolerable (for me, anyway). Besides, if you watch a few more seasons, Wizard actually offers a lot more explanations than some other seasons (Kamen Rider Kabuto, I love you, you have to understand that, but I just can't ignore the fact that the Perfect Zecter came out of nowhere).

Originally Posted by Den-O (Post 209454)

But Mayu's Mage suit isn't anything. Her costume is literally the same one that all the generic Mages in the Magic Land world and movie use. The only difference is that the Magic Land mages have capes to signify rank between captains and soldiers. Her costume got no love but Yuzuru and Yamamoto got special colors.