That's some pretty messed up thinking. Kouta is the hero, the role model of the story. Regardless of the consequences, heroes don't play dirty. It would just make for bad television.

Besides there's already one person on the show who thinks like this, and that's Baron. But even Urobutcher sees Baron as wrong, as someone who learns his lesson later on.

I get that. I'm not a fan of heroes who kill, who play the game just as the villains do but this isn't a battle for the world, it's a petty child's squabble over dance mats. At least right now.

That is why I can't accept Kouta's moral highhorse. Baron's way of thinking makes him a genuine threat beyond that of the games themselves, Kurokage and Gridon were going to disable that threat in a non lethal way but Kouta decided his morals were too good for that, and he saved Baron.

This means now it either comes to the point that Baron does something that Kouta will always regret, or they will HAVE to kill him as they'll probably never get another opportunity like this. So he's an idiot.

As the Doctor said, "The best war, is one never started."

Man, this show is gonna run out of new merch to shill at the rate it's going. All these Riders and a new form next episode?

Anyway, I think Gridon and Kurokage might end up stealing the show for me. They're a bunch of stupid underdogs trying to prove they can make it in the big leagues, and I'm loving every second of it.

Also, and I say this as someone who will defend "Space Time!" to the death, I don't dig Ornac that much. Although I've been jokingly calling him Corn-A for weeks now, so I'm one to talk.

That may or may not be true. The only issue is why you have to insist he's an idiot for doing so. You have the perspective of an audience member, who with a knowledge of tropes, can somewhat predict how the story will flow. Especially considering the narrative tries to make both of them eternal rivals, with the Rider War and all that. But from Kouta's perspective, it is simply doing the right thing and nothing more.

There is nothing wrong or idiotic in trying to do the right thing. Kouta's not on a moral highhorse, he didn't go on some spiel about how he's better than anyone else. He's just doing what he thinks is right. Whether it will bite him later on or not does not factor into his decision because he wouldn't know what Baron would eventually become. Again, he doesn't have the audience's perspective. Isn't it a fair thing to give Baron the benefit of the doubt?

It may be a disastrous decision (we don't know yet), but it's not idiotic and regardless of whether it will bite him later or not, I applaud him for sticking to his principles.

Finally, the Doctor may have said, "The best war, is one never started" but he also said:

"Do I have the right? Simply touch one wire against the other and that's it. The Daleks cease to exist. Hundreds of millions of people, thousands of generations can live without fear, in peace, and never even know the word Dalek...But if I kill, wipe out a whole intelligent lifeform, then I become like them. I'd be no better than the Daleks."

Even if it would eventually result in his species' extinction and the death of countless lives, the Doctor kept to his principles.

Another great episode. I hope Bravo is a regular character and not just a semi-annual guest.

It would be really funny if Pierre mentions he has a relative that sells donuts in another city. :P

Kurokage & "Ornac" are somewhere between Team Rocket/ Bulk & Skull and they really work well together.

Baron doesn't want to "kill" the weak; its been established that he wants them to have a fair chance to be strong if they have the right ability. Kota also believes people deserve a chance to change themselves (which is the thing he wanted for himself before the series began) so it makes sense to me that he would try to help Kaito and also give him that chance to change.

But as I explained, this is not a question of life and death, it's only the disarming of the villain. In the civilised world, we take the weapons away from the Dictator, not their life. Kouta had no reason to be against disarming Baron. He's surely seen enough movies to know how this will end.

Kurokage and Gridon were ganging up on Kaito, it was an unfair match, and Kouta wasn't going to stand around and let that happen, just because he's a good guy, doesn't mean he's on a moral highhorse. He did what he thought was right, and it's pretty clear Kouta isn't the kind of guy to think about consequences.

Also, why does everyone seem to be thinking Kaito is just some ultimate bad guy stuck in a kid's game? For one thing, the people in the game pretty clearly don't think of it as a kid's game, only the people outside of it do, even if they're the ones who are more or less right. Which also helps to justify Kouta's reasoning, he doesn't think of their battle as just kids playing around, I mean they're using lethal weapons against each other. Another thing is, Kouta seems to realize that Kaito isn't actually that bad a guy, he's got a good heart.

Good hearts are all well and good, but when that good heart is wielding a weapon of mass destruction and beating you into the floor, you may need to look at a wider picture. Kouta is young, youth is coupled with naivety - I hope Kouta isn't punished for something which is beyond his control but with the writer that is at the helm, I think there's gonna be hell to pay. Possibly literally.

You assume Baron is a villain and a dictator. In Kouta's eyes, this is just an Invess game and Baron is just a contestant for now. An overly aggressive and competitive contestant, but one who has proven to at least play by their messed up rules.

Now, if Baron was a proven homicidal murderous maniac, then perhaps circumstances will necessitate disarming him. But now it just looks like playing dirty. Notice that Baron's Lock Seed didn't fly to Kurokage's or Gridon's hands when they defeated him, because it was not within the game rules and not "legal".

And also, this assumes that destroying the Sengoku Driver is a simple and painless affair. We don't know that, and most importantly, Kouta doesn't. The device is still attached to one of the most vulnerable parts of the body. It doesn't look harmless.

I will be the first to admit I was wrong.....I don't want Gridon and Kurokage to die.They bring so much entertainment to the series.After Baron,those 2 are def my favorites.

If Baron really was some kind of cruel villain and dictator, would he really have helped that kid get out of the tree back in episode 2, I think it was? No, he would have just ignored the kid and walked away, but he didn't. He's not the kind of person who would just kill the people he deems weak, that would be too cruel for him.

When did Baron ever beat anyone "into the floor"? There's Ryugen, but it was still considered within the confines of a match. Baron has not shown himself to be Zangetsu yet.

And you don't hope Kouta isn't punished because earlier you said:

You want him to be punished, at the expense of a character. That's...just cruel.

I wasn't trying to claim Baron a dictator, it was simply an analogy.

I less hope that Kouta is punished singularly, and more those kinds of heroes plurally. I find heroes who place their morals before all infuriating, I find it arrogant. It's true that research needs to be done before we go chopping off Drivers, I give you that, but I still believe if a threat exists it should be disabled, not lethally of course, but still disabled. Kouta just stopped the best opportunity to take Baron out of the equation, simply because of assumed moral superiority.

Why should heroes who think that way need to be punished? I disagree with Baron's ideology, but I don't hope for Zack and Peco to die cruelly just to prove a point.

Besides that is practically the norm for a majority of heroes. Rider itself is full of them, Fourze, W, Wizard, etc. Even Ryuki was a morally principled hero in a dark, dark world. It's not just a staple of Toku, it is a staple of everything involving a "hero" in pop culture. And it's a very popular line of thinking, "the ends do not justify the means". You may disagree, but Kouta is not arrogant for thinking that way, neither are most heroes, unless they use this reasoning to specifically be smug and superior.

The thing is Baron ISN'T a threat. I mean, yes he's a threat to their rankings, but he has not once shown himself to be a physical threat to anyone, except for their fights inside the ring, where he has shown that he follows the rules, and at the moment killing someone seems pretty against the rules, and Baron's own personal rules. He wouldn't try to kill them, honestly I imagine killing them would be something he would see as "weak". He consider his team members cheating to be weak, and this would be along a similar premise. In Kouta's eyes, Kurokage and Gridon are probably more of a threat, since they've already shown that they're willing to break the rules just to raise their teams places in the rankings.

Also, is it really placing your morals above all else to be helping out a guy who is being unfairly beaten down by a surprise attack from two people he had an alliance with?

What you're lacking here though is context. This attitude works in the right context. Gen's morals worked because of his context. Haruto's morals worked because of context. Kouta knows thanks to his run in with Zangetsu that there is more at stake, and in play here, than some child's game.

If Baron doesn't go from asshole to full on killer, then existing in this game still puts Baron in direct danger. The best thing for Baron is to not be in the game, as any player in this game can and could be killed at any minute. Keeping Baron in the game helps absolutely no one. And if one person should know that, it's Kouta.

Are there subs available yet? Good Drama has nothing.

That's one way of thinking. Some anti-heroes have that, and they're interesting characters in their own right.

Kouta would still not agree that the ends justify the means. He is not being idiotic for doing that. He is simply embodying a common hero archetype. He doesn't need to be punished for that. He might be, like the Doctor was, but that doesn't invalidate his point of view.

Aesirsubs has them.

Not looking at the bigger picture should be a crime. It's a crime when it isn't.

If every fictional show, especially these toku shows, had characters act with the idea of the ends justify the means, it'd be a boring show that ends 10 to 15 episodes in.

The idea of Baron being an asshole and the most powerful, only to be beaten by two weak subjects of his, and then to be saved by his "mortal enemy" in Gaim, only goes to foreshadow the eventual change that Baron will go through.

It is now surprise, simply through the show's intro, that the main four riders in this series are Gaim, Baron, Ryugen, and Zangetsu. It would appear that Kurokage, Guridon (is that the actual name? I see like 4 different verisons), and Bravo (or is it Durian?) are simply there to move stories forward and not the "main heroes for a final battle".

In fact, Bravo/Durian I could see becoming the mid-show big bad, basically coming at these children with a hardcore military background and a "rampage of destruction".

Either way - at some point in the close future, a greater evil has to be introduced, or the show is going to stagnate. You can only have "RIDERS ARE FIGHTING RIDERS BECAUSE OF DANCE STAGES!" plots before the show ends up going nowhere.

I'm not complaining or being a naysayer - I love the show and all of what we have gotten so far is absolutely beautiful - but I'm afraid of what will happen to the show if there's not something to unite these different warring factions together, or at least have them pick sides.

Oren Pierre Alfons..the most FABULOUS Kamen Rider ever:lol

Yes, just yes. I love Bravos design, looks like Lockdown from Animated, and Im guessing "Ornac" Gridon and Kurokage will be thrown away easily, as they appear to just be comic relief at the moment. DAMN IT THE EPISODE ENDED TOO SOON! :lol

I know…the episode promised us a rampage, damnit!

You know what Ornac Gridon is actually a fun name. :lol

I suspect you're right - Durian is gonna whoop ass, teach these kids to toughen up. He'll be disposed of somehow.


That big big baddy you want - thats gonna be Mitzu's brother and the Yggrassil corporation.

Well, this episode was a little strange. It's one of the first Kamen Rider episodes that's actually made me desperate to see what happens next, although that might just be a matter of timing.
I'm mixed on how I feel about Gridon and Kurokage becoming comic relief, at least for now. On one hand, I was expecting them to be a lot different, but on the other, the dynamic between them and the other riders is actually pretty funny (and Gridon's kinda cute, so I hope he survives).
I've slightly warmed up to Oren Pierre Alfonso after seeing him in action, but I feel as though his flamboyance is a bit... overplayed? It doesn't sit very well with me for some reason or another. Some things, like his kissing the Sengoku Driver and the random French felt off to me. I do like the idea of a military history though. I just wish he wasn't such a ridiculous caricature.
Also, Team Gaim's move in the beginning was pretty uncharacteristic of typical good guys. I'm liking how this show is being different without being overtly edgy.

Just watched it. Bravo is really not what I expected. He definitely looks like he'll be the character that turns this into a real battle. I wouldn't be surprised if he takes out Kurokage before his storyline is over.I don't think he'll be around for the long term, though. I think he's going to come in, dramatically raise the stakes, and then get defeated and either die or lose his belt.

In any case, I really like the Bravo suit. The Durian Arms look fantastic. They definitely appeal to the part of me that's a huge Roman Empire buff.

My big issue? Why're they back translating Guridon/Griddon's name into Ornac? Makes no sense. We've known for months that his name would be Griddon. If they're going to do that then why don't they translate Kurokage's name to Black Shadow since that's it's literal meaning? I just don't understand the point in translating a pronoun, a name, backward form it's literal spoken form.

As for Kurokage and Griddon, I think those two are going to wind up being our goofball pair for however long they hang in the game. Should be fun to see some slapstick back and forth from them. And Bravo, oh my god I love Bravo. The over the topness of his character, the costume, the military background. He's going to become a major player in this.

And next weak the melon armor!!

Especially since that's the really joke, that Kurokage gave himself a cool name, and gave Gridon a half-assed one.

Bravo is his name, Durian is his Lock Seed.

I really hope we get an AC figure of him, but considering how the chest transforms, I doubt it. There's no way it could fold in to the toy.

Kurokage and Griddon are amazing. I already liked their designs, but their characters seal the deal. This definitely locks in my intent to get both of their figuarts.

O.K. Barron being turned on like that, caught me off guard. - a little. :D

Bravo/Durian looks awesome. :thumb: It looks like Kaba-chan paved the way, for more gay cast members to be included in the Kamen Rider's series. :)

Why do I get the feeling that Bravo is going to be the first to die in this series. :(

Will he be so serious that he ends up killing Kurokage or Gridon? Thus forcing Gaim and the others to take it there also? Zangetsu looked like he wanted to finish off Gaim. :eyebrow

Did that blonde, red eye chick :D try to warn Bravo too?

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...omia_Deity.jpg

Because Kurokage's name doesn't have a joke revolving around it. The whole point of them translating Gridon to Ornac was because the joke would be completely lost on whoever didn't know Gridon was a half-assed anagram of whatever acorn is in Japanese.

I'm not a big fan of it either, but whatever. Like I repeatedly say it takes 30 seconds to change a sub track on an mkv if its that much of a bother to people.

Could you show us how to do that? :)

I don't think it's a big deal either. I prefer Gridon to Ornac. Actually I prefer Corna to Ornac but it's pretty hard to get the joke across in English anyway. But since it's easily changed it's fine.

I can't do screencaps as I'm currently without a laptop, but I'd be happy to explain :lol Maybe I'll do a pictorial guide once I have it back again.

You'll need the following two programs - Aegisub and mkvmerge

- Open up the episode in Aegisub, which will give you access to the script.
- Find the word you want to change, and simply retype it in to the box provided
- Save the new script (I think it saves as an .ass file)
- Open mkvmerge
- Add the episode, and untick the box for the old script
- Add the newly created script and tick the box so it's the default script
- Mux the two together, and it'll create a brand new file with them both combined

That sounds...really complicated when you type it out :lol But trust me when I say its dead easy. Muxing the new file takes about 30 seconds to a minute tops. I went through every Go-Busters file during the mecha name debacle and it took about 20-25 mins to do them all.

Now I'm a total newbie with this whole video thing, but does that re-encode the video?

I'm not really sure what it does in technical terms, other than that it completely reproduces the video with the new script :lol

While I get that it's a joke, I just don't see the point in localizing a joke for us at the cost of the characters name, especially when it's such a one note thing. Trying to make it more understandable has actually made it more confusing for me at least.

I agree, I did not get the Ornac reference. It wasn't really straightforward and keeping the name would have made no difference.

But again, it's no big deal. I just didn't think it worked.

From what I've read Bravo might turn into a big bad for a little while. Dude's seriously F'ed up.

Plus durians. Yuck.

Wow, you do not want to mess with Mister Dangerous.

Bravo looks fantastic, and Kurokage/Gridon are a brilliant little double act. Every time I have a moment of thinking this show has too many riders already something happens to reassure me the writers know exactly what they're doing.