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-   -   Kamen Rider Ghost Episode 2- "Shocking! The King of Inventions" Discussion (https://www.tokunation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74517)

Guyver Spawn 10-14-2015 06:29 PM
Enjoyable episode. The Dr. Wily looking guy was enjoyable and I really like the fight scenes too. I also like the moments of Takeru and Akari too. I still don't like how Ghost will be getting his Robin form so soon. I like a nice balance when Riders get their next form.

barnstenchfartface 10-14-2015 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP (Post 566435)
With the mugging, obnoxious side characters, puppet, silly old man and dancing cartoony ghost... hoodies, this really feels like it's aimed at a younger audience. Kamen Rider's always intended for children in a sizable respect, but this is approaching toddler-level entertainment.
Ok, I get that you're not enjoying it, but the argument "I don't like this, so it's for babies" doesn't really follow. The eccentric mentor is just an old character archetype, if perhaps cliche. And obnoxious characters aren't indicators of anything related to what the target audience is, it's just an indicator that you find the side characters obnoxious.

I suppose an argument could be made for Yurusen and the dancing parka ghosts, though imho at face value they're better than the sentient toy cars and even the fruit armor. Either way, I really don't think they're convincing as far as arguing that it's getting dumbed down goes.

SPLIT LIP 10-14-2015 07:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnstenchfartface (Post 566444)
Ok, I get that you're not enjoying it, but the argument "I don't like this, so it's for babies" doesn't really follow.
Probably because my arguement isn't "I don't like this, so it's for babies" it's "It looks like it's for babies, so it looks like it's for babies."

Like seriously, there's an actual hand puppet as a character.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnstenchfartface (Post 566444)
I suppose an argument could be made for Yurusen and the dancing parka ghosts, though imho at face value they're better than the sentient toy cars and even the fruit armor.
That's a weak-ass cover for a weak-ass jab at Gaim simply because you know I like it better. The fruit armour didn't talk or anything, nor was it actual fruit, but armour that looks like fruit. That's in no way comparable to dancing hoodie ghosts or talking toy cars. The armour was armour, used as armour and treated like armour. All Kamen Riders wear armour of some kind, they do not all have puppet companions or talking toys.

Matrixbeast 10-14-2015 07:35 PM
Kamen Rider always has a silly side to it. Just because it was armor doesn't change that it was designed after oranges and bananas. It's still a silly design choice.

Anyway, considering the direction Sentai has been heading in since Kyoryuger, it's not surprising that Kamen Rider would give it another try.
Fourze was incredibly juvenile with loud characters and stupid gimmicks, but many enjoyed it.

XW1n5t0nX 10-14-2015 07:49 PM
Honestly I don't really find anybody in Ghost to be as you put it "terrible people." What makes them terrible? Some being loud? That can be annoying, and certainly Onari is a loud one. But this doesn't make them terrible people. Personally I like Akari's stubbornness to accept the supernatural. It to me leads to some humor. It may grow older as the show goes on, but two episodes in it doesn't. To be frank you make it sound like that we know everything about the characters from the first two episodes of the series and that nothing will change. Maybe they won't change, but you can't be certain they won't.

SPLIT LIP 10-14-2015 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrixbeast (Post 566454)
Kamen Rider always has a silly side to it. Just because it was armor doesn't change that it was designed after oranges and bananas. It's still a silly design choice.
But "silly" I can understand. Granted I know it's typical Toku fan MO to frantically try to excuse anything and everything whenever given actual evidence of why it is, but you seem to think I hate every aspect of this show. The hoodies on the suits are obsurd and, frankly, stupid. But I like them. Like the fruit armour they incorperate unconventional motifs for cool and creative looks. Yeah having a lightbulb outline on his face is dumb, but it's good dumb because it makes the negative space resemble a cool visor. Mushashi's hoodie has a sword hilt on it's head which looks like those little buns samurai put their hair up into. That is ridiculous, but cool.

Cheap hand puppets are not cool. They're stupid. You can see where the arm of the puppeteer is lifting it's little cape. At least if it was CGI it'd be... not a puppet. How that's even a comparable level to silly (but cool) armour designs I can't comprehend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XW1n5t0nX (Post 566456)
Honestly I don't really find anybody in Ghost to be as you put it "terrible people." What makes them terrible? Some being loud? That can be annoying, and certainly Onari is a loud one. But this doesn't make them terrible people.
I don't mean "terrible people" as in no morals or something, but terrible as in they are terribly written, terribly acted, terribly chosen. They are people that are terrible to watch and experience. :lol

Guyver Spawn 10-14-2015 07:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP (Post 566435)
With the mugging, obnoxious side characters, puppet, silly old man and dancing cartoony ghost... hoodies, this really feels like it's aimed at a younger audience. Kamen Rider's always intended for children in a sizable respect, but this is approaching toddler-level entertainment.
It's not like Kamen Rider has been like that before. Fourze had the Foodroids, Wizard had those cute looking animals (PlaMonsters), Gaim had a lot of silly and campy moments at first and Drive had the shift cars (My friends would laugh their asses off when they show up on screen. No one took the shift cars seriously). So the dancing the ghost and the silly humor is fine by me.

Matrixbeast 10-14-2015 08:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP (Post 566458)
But "silly" I can understand. Granted I know it's typical Toku fan MO to frantically try to excuse anything and everything whenever given actual evidence of why it is, but you seem to think I hate every aspect of this show. The hoodies on the suits are obsurd and, frankly, stupid. But I like them. Like the fruit armour they incorperate unconventional motifs for cool and creative looks. Yeah having a lightbulb outline on his face is dumb, but it's good dumb because it makes the negative space resemble a cool visor. Mushashi's hoodie has a sword hilt on it's head which looks like those little buns samurai put their hair up into. That is ridiculous, but cool.

Cheap hand puppets are not cool. They're stupid. You can see where the arm of the puppeteer is lifting it's little cape. At least if it was CGI it'd be... not a puppet. How that's even a comparable level to silly (but cool) armour designs I can't comprehend.
I'm not saying you hate everything about the show. I'm in the same boat as you here. I think the ghost hoodies are hilariously stupid.

I can understand the issues with the puppet...
Yeah. It's all legit. I really don't know why they went that route when CG was an option. I guess they didn't want to end up in a Kivala situation of 3 episodes CG and then the remainder of the series being a toy dangled on a string (Seriously).

Concerning the characters, there really isn't anything I can say. It's clear they're trying to hammer in their personalities and quirks early on. Really, all I can do is just hope that once they feel the audience "Gets" them, they can tone them down and start developing them.
And pray that moment comes soon.

Diamondmatter 10-14-2015 08:51 PM
My thoughts on Ghost's silliness boils down to "it's the same as Fourze." Nothing about it seems new to the franchise.
It is kind of a shame, too, because it's "Ghost".

Also.

http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/...psudpj4eed.jpg

SPLIT LIP 10-14-2015 09:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyver Spawn (Post 566460)
It's not like Kamen Rider has been like that before. Fourze had the Foodroids, Wizard had those cute looking animals (PlaMonsters), Gaim had a lot of silly and campy moments at first and Drive had the shift cars (My friends would laugh their asses off when they show up on screen. No one took the shift cars seriously). So the dancing the ghost and the silly humor is fine by me.
The little CGI animal things did bug me, especially when W started treating them as actual animals and not just tools. That started a bad trend. But Gaim didn't have any gadget creatures at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamondmatter (Post 566471)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAbP5REW_Fc

barnstenchfartface 10-14-2015 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP (Post 566450)
Probably because my arguement isn't "I don't like this, so it's for babies" it's "It looks like it's for babies, so it looks like it's for babies."

Like seriously, there's an actual hand puppet as a character.
Your argument was half that you dislike the side characters/Sennin and half that you dislike Yurusen and the dancing parkas. I acknowledged that you could make the argument for the ghosts to say that it's more childish, but nothing about the characters has any real bearing on that. You dislike them, for a host of perfectly good reasons, but disliking the characters doesn't naturally lead to "this series is aimed at a younger audience."

And yes, I know one of the characters is an actual hand puppet.

Quote:
That's a weak-ass cover for a weak-ass jab at Gaim simply because you know I like it better. The fruit armour didn't talk or anything, nor was it actual fruit, but armour that looks like fruit. That's in no way comparable to dancing hoodie ghosts or talking toy cars. The armour was armour, used as armour and treated like armour. All Kamen Riders wear armour of some kind, they do not all have puppet companions or talking toys.
I mentioned both the Drive and Gaim things because they are the most recent, and only recent, Kamen Riders I've seen, it wasn't some attempt at a 'gotcha' because you like it or whatever (and it'd definitely be a pretty weak-ass one if it was since Gaim is my favorite too.) And it isn't a 'jab,' because I don't dislike any of those things.

It was just me expressing the opinion that a dancing ghost hoodie isn't necessarily any sillier than a giant metal banana falling on a dude's head during transformation. Because a giant metal banana falling on a dude's head during a transformation is silly, and actually kind of stupid. All Kamen Riders have armor, but not all have it delivered by head-fruits, just as not all of them have ghosts dancing around them while they're in the process of transforming. Different strokes or something like that.

Now, this is a weak-ass cover, but when I mentioned the shift cars I meant to compare those to Yurusen, and when I mentioned the armor I meant to compare those to the parkas. Not necessarily both to both, because they're pretty different things.

Either way, my point was merely that, as Diamondmatter said, nothing about Ghost's tone is new, so I don't get how one can say that it's aimed at a lower audience or toddlers or something.

It's a perfectly simple and unnecessary point to make, really, but I had to go and made a big deal out of it and waste all of our time, so, you know, bleh. :I

GoseiWonder 10-14-2015 09:55 PM
Am I the only one who likes Yurusen and doesn't care that (s)he's a hand puppet?

barnstenchfartface 10-14-2015 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoseiWonder (Post 566495)
Am I the only one who likes Yurusen and doesn't care that (s)he's a hand puppet?
I love Yurusen. Mostly for the voice, granted, but the voice is very important. Yuuki Aoi is just really good at her job.

catwhowalks 10-14-2015 10:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoseiWonder (Post 566495)
Am I the only one who likes Yurusen and doesn't care that (s)he's a hand puppet?
I'm not sure what I think of him as a character, but I don't mind his being a hand puppet. I really do appreciate the fact that he gets around the usual thing with the hero magically knowing how to use all his abilities and do everything. He's an exposition device, but one that only does so when it makes sense.

IXRollOutIX 10-14-2015 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP (Post 566458)
Cheap hand puppets are not cool. They're stupid. You can see where the arm of the puppeteer is lifting it's little cape. At least if it was CGI it'd be... not a puppet.
I can not disagree with this more. Why are you always so matter-of-fact with your judgments? I think Yurusen is great and I infinitely prefer that she's a physical prop instead of CGI. In my book, practical effects no matter how simple will always be better than computer generated ones.

Helios 10-14-2015 10:52 PM
I like that they brought back Kuuga's belt summoning in Ghost. I was hoping to see more of Edison. He only appeared to do a Dai Kagan and shoot the Ganma.

Dormamu 10-14-2015 11:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helios (Post 566523)
I like that they brought back Kuuga's belt summoning in Ghost. I was hoping to see more of Edison. He only appeared to do a Dai Kagan an shoot the Ganma.
All those quotes are truth.

So let's see, we've got a bit of Den-O mixed in with Kuuga, OOOs, and the powerups are reminiscent of Fourze. Edison reminded me of Altered States. So far I'm enjoying this new series. It's wacky in a way that makes it fun. The ghost ship lizard is just plain cool. Add to this that it's educational.

I really don't care about whether there's a puppet on hand (see what I did there), the character is literally there to call our hero a dumbass and to offer sarcasm support. I welcome him over the monk or the chick.

Kiryu 10-14-2015 11:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoseiWonder (Post 566495)
Am I the only one who likes Yurusen and doesn't care that (s)he's a hand puppet?
I like that about the character, it shows that they're still willing to use practical effects. It would've been soooo easy for them to have just CGIed everything.

SanoBaron 10-14-2015 11:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoseiWonder (Post 566495)
Am I the only one who likes Yurusen and doesn't care that (s)he's a hand puppet?
I like it.

I mean, a lot of times Ankh was just a fuckin' glove.
especially when Ryosuke Miura wasn't attached.

I like the practical effect. it's a nice touch.

GreenPsychoRanger 10-15-2015 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoseiWonder (Post 566495)
Am I the only one who likes Yurusen and doesn't care that (s)he's a hand puppet?
I love there character. My only gripe is the squeaky voice. A little too squeaky. Can't really explain what I'm thinking.

AkibaSilver 10-15-2015 12:58 PM
Iguana Ghost ship is awesome. That is all I care to say

ZeoRangerV 10-15-2015 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnstenchfartface (Post 566499)
I love Yurusen. Mostly for the voice, granted, but the voice is very important. Yuuki Aoi is just really good at her job.
Agreed. I do find the puppet oddly charming though, I want one.

MrHerofan 10-15-2015 02:12 PM
Meh, the glove at least made sense at least and he had a body usually so I ding mind Ankh. This though just, ugh and Ghost in general isn't "doing" it for me.

The puppet is just stupid, like I hope it goes away. The fight scenes are prettty meh, the suits are pretty cool, but the orange "skeleton" just takes it away the cool factor, because most of these colors don't blend well together.

The monster designs feel more like a sentai that rider and the characters are pretty annoying. The monk needs to shut up, and the girl needs to calm down. Takeru is just kind of there and a bit generic.

Again this show just doesn't quite feel like "rider" for me.

Dr Kain 10-15-2015 11:42 PM
Well I watched episode 2 and this show just isn't working for me. I haven't hated the beginning to a series this much since Den-O. The entire writing just feels like it is done by someone with ADD because there are way too many scene cuts and camera changes going on in too short of a time span. There were scenes that just didn't make any sense because they were far too quick. Not only that, but why does everyone have to shout and move around as if they are on drugs? The fights are way too flat and also quick. I just can not get into it and I absoultye hate the entire side cast. I'm not even sure I want to wait until episode 10 before I make a final decision on whether to continue or not.

KyoryuGreen 10-16-2015 04:46 AM
I'm in the habit of watching the episode twice a week, once by myself, once with my friends. Anyways I really enjoyed it a lot. I am loving Takeru's character and how much he enjoys life and to not take it for granted especially since he lost his. The opening theme is awesome, and his henshin sequence is amazing too. I also like that his Self's ghost was dancing when he was transforming. Akari actually was more tolerable and actually really likeable this episode, I enjoyed her believing in Takeru and her rapport with Onari is really hilarious. I like the Sage too he's mysterious and intriguing. I wouldn't be surprised if the guy with the villain turns out to be Necrom, he looks like a guy who should be used more but hey Chase didn't show up till episode 3 so who knows. I enjoyed the Edison ghost and the scientist they used that was a fun plot because of talking about infinite possibilities of life; also having a Tesla Ganma was hilarious too. I love Captain Ghost and the Iguana Ghostriker that was completely badass, the CGI has been looking better these last few years especially since Gaim. I am enjoying that it's been a few days this episode and hope the entire series doesn't take the entire 99 days. The Edison form looks awesome in motion as it did in pictures, it's one of my favorites, I hope it gets more of focus because it kind of only just destroyed the Ganma. I love that the Ganma can also use the Eyecons as well. Well I definitely can't wait for Robin Hood next week and more from this series.

Storm Luxray 10-16-2015 04:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoseiWonder (Post 565181)
Ereki Hirameki Hatsuemi-Oh!
somethingsomething Father of inspiration!

Storm Luxray 10-16-2015 04:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnstenchfartface (Post 566490)
Your argument was half that you dislike the side characters/Sennin and half that you dislike Yurusen and the dancing parkas. I acknowledged that you could make the argument for the ghosts to say that it's more childish, but nothing about the characters has any real bearing on that. You dislike them, for a host of perfectly good reasons, but disliking the characters doesn't naturally lead to "this series is aimed at a younger audience."

And yes, I know one of the characters is an actual hand puppet.



I mentioned both the Drive and Gaim things because they are the most recent, and only recent, Kamen Riders I've seen, it wasn't some attempt at a 'gotcha' because you like it or whatever (and it'd definitely be a pretty weak-ass one if it was since Gaim is my favorite too.) And it isn't a 'jab,' because I don't dislike any of those things.

It was just me expressing the opinion that a dancing ghost hoodie isn't necessarily any sillier than a giant metal banana falling on a dude's head during transformation. Because a giant metal banana falling on a dude's head during a transformation is silly, and actually kind of stupid. All Kamen Riders have armor, but not all have it delivered by head-fruits, just as not all of them have ghosts dancing around them while they're in the process of transforming. Different strokes or something like that.

Now, this is a weak-ass cover, but when I mentioned the shift cars I meant to compare those to Yurusen, and when I mentioned the armor I meant to compare those to the parkas. Not necessarily both to both, because they're pretty different things.

Either way, my point was merely that, as Diamondmatter said, nothing about Ghost's tone is new, so I don't get how one can say that it's aimed at a lower audience or toddlers or something.

It's a perfectly simple and unnecessary point to make, really, but I had to go and made a big deal out of it and waste all of our time, so, you know, bleh. :I
Do I hear a war............?

ZeoRangerV 10-16-2015 05:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Luxray (Post 566817)
Do I hear a war............?
What are you trying to say that was worth quoting that whole post for? :eyebrow

Also forgot to say - not a fan of the theme song at all. Might grow on me (wasn't a huge fan of Life is SHOWTIME at first but now its one of my absolute favourites), but I haven't felt this indifferent toward a Rider theme in quite a while.

ElConvoy 10-16-2015 06:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeoRangerV (Post 566827)
What are you trying to say that was worth quoting that whole post for? :eyebrow

Also forgot to say - not a fan of the theme song at all. Might grow on me (wasn't a huge fan of Life is SHOWTIME at first but now its one of my absolute favourites), but I haven't felt this indifferent toward a Rider theme in quite a while.
I dont think I have ever felt this indifferent about one :lol

Helios 10-16-2015 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Luxray (Post 566815)
somethingsomething Father of inspiration!
Actually it's, "Electric! Inspiration! King of Invention!"

Dormamu 10-16-2015 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helios (Post 566852)
Actually it's, "Electric! Inspiration! King of Invention!"
And here I thought it was saying "Don't Cross The Streams!"

:lol

kamen rider bara 10-17-2015 01:32 AM
ok does anyone else think the ganma look really cheap and bad, I mean they are cringeworthy if you ask me

kamen rider bara 10-17-2015 01:32 AM
Also I fear this might be like wizard with the crappy humour

TheTakoTank 10-17-2015 01:47 AM
Run of the mill early episode, nothing really special. I think we all need to remember that it's only the second episode of the show; things can change. Drive was slow at first, but a lot of people really liked towards the end.

Takeru's opening narration reminds me a bit of Asumu's from Hibiki. We're never getting an explanation for the Captain Ghost and Machine Ghostriker, are we. Why is it an iguana, anyway?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP (Post 566450)
All Kamen Riders wear armour of some kind
Not Kuuga. Or Agito. Or Gills. Or Hibiki. :p /Devil's Advocate

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP (Post 566458)
it's good dumb because it makes the negative space resemble a cool visor.
That's something I really like about Ghost's designs.

Quote:
Cheap hand puppets are not cool. They're stupid. You can see where the arm of the puppeteer is lifting it's little cape.
I think Yurusen being a painfully obvious hand puppet is part of the charm for me. It's just a normal puppet (a bit odd considering all the cgi in the show), and the cape issue you mentioned just makes kind of funny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helios (Post 566523)
I like that they brought back Kuuga's belt summoning in Ghost. I was hoping to see more of Edison. He only appeared to do a Dai Kagan and shoot the Ganma.
Kuuga belt summoning is cool, as is the logo over a blue sky background that Kuuga also used. Edison did feel a bit underused, especially considering we're getting Robin next week. I think the show will follow Gaim's example by introducing a lot of form changes/armors quickly and then moving into the story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeoRangerV (Post 566827)
Also forgot to say - not a fan of the theme song at all. Might grow on me (wasn't a huge fan of Life is SHOWTIME at first but now its one of my absolute favourites)
What? Someone actually likes something from Wizard? I thought we were all obligated to detest that show. :lol (For the record, I thought it was alright, and I liked Beast.)

I like the theme, not really a fan of the visuals. Why is Takeru flying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dormamu (Post 566874)
And here I thought it was saying "Don't Cross The Streams!"
Ghostbusters soul when?

Dr Kain 10-17-2015 09:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTakoTank (Post 567017)
Run of the mill early episode, nothing really special. I think we all need to remember that it's only the second episode of the show; things can change. Drive was slow at first, but a lot of people really liked towards the end.
That's just it though, I had no issue with the first 8 episodes to Drive. I thought they were great. Den-O was the last time I hated a show right from the get go and I never really ended up liking it at all. There were parts I liked, but it is one of my least favorite Kamen Rider shows ever.

SPLIT LIP 10-17-2015 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTakoTank (Post 567017)
Not Kuuga. Or Agito. Or Gills. Or Hibiki. :p /Devil's Advocate
What are you talking about? Of course they do. Do you not see that giant red piece of armour and Kuuga's torso and shoudlers? Or the gold chest and silver shoulder pads on Agito? Or all of Gills' green armour, or Hibiki's armour?

Kiwami 10-17-2015 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP (Post 567090)
What are you talking about? Of course they do. Do you not see that giant red piece of armour and Kuuga's torso and shoudlers? Or the gold chest and silver shoulder pads on Agito? Or all of Gills' green armour, or Hibiki's armour?
I think he means Kuuga and Agito don't wear armor because it is, like their belts, a part of them. Their body shifts into their Rider forms. I would still say he's wrong though, it's clearly armor.

Gills... he is organic, but since his Rider-form is basically an organic shell I would still say that he wears armor, just because his Rider-form seems to grow around his human form. Shin however isn’t wearing any armor, that really is his complete body transforming.

With Hibiki… it’s his true form as an Oni, right? It’s not armor.

SanoBaron 10-17-2015 01:50 PM
Technically, one could say that Gills' rider form is an exoskeleton.

Switchblade 10-17-2015 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwami (Post 567091)
With Hibiki… it’s his true form as an Oni, right? It’s not armor.
No, the Oni suits are very much armor. See all the scenes where they transform the helmets off.

SPLIT LIP 10-17-2015 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwami (Post 567091)
I think he means Kuuga and Agito don't wear armor because it is, like their belts, a part of them. Their body shifts into their Rider forms. I would still say he's wrong though, it's clearly armor.
But almost every rider is like that, though. They always make reference to their rider forms being their bodies.

Also, it is still armour. Armour and clothing are not synonymous.


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