Yes, never forget the glory that is Metal Yoshida, a.k.a. Oren!!!! :lol

Oren was one of the best parts in Gaim but the true star was Baron aka Kaito Kumon

I felt Kaito was actually one of the weakest points :lol
"Power power power power power"
*Goes on losing streak*
*Starts reminiscing with Mai*
From there, I thought Kaito would continue his growth, but...No. He just reverts back to episode 1 Kaito with an even larger chip on his shoulder.

A lot of people have brought up the characters on Gaim as one of it's strongest points, and while I do sorta agree, it's also one of the things I dislike about the show. Namely that the cast is so large, and the show never seemed to know what to do with them. It always bugged me that they had a ton of interesting characters just kinda pushed to the side instead of actually using them for something.
Here, take Bravo, for example, he was introduced as a credible threat to everyone, then after a few episodes was just kinda pushed aside unless they brought him back for a comedy bit with Gridon, or there was a big team up between all the riders.
And don't even get me started on Marika...

I remember the big thing about Bravo early on when he was introduced was that he had military experience, giving him a potiental leg up compared to other riders.

A person who likes Wizard over drive
I've seen everything


Beast had a more interesting storyline than wizard

And that right there sums the problem I have with most of Gaim's characters. They all give the illusion of development, but with a couple exceptions, most of them, including poor Kouta, just sort of stay right where they were at the start.

At least with Micchi his character arc is intentionally a boomerang.

The B-team of Bravo, Gridon and Knuckle in the back half of the show is the big exception, since they're all discernibly different (and way more badass!) people by the end.

Kouta wishes he were as cool as Zack.

My biggest complaint about KRG was the inclusion of Oren. My second biggest complaint about KRG was the fact that nobody murdered Oren. My third biggest complaint about KRG was what Oren did to Hideyasu Jonouchi. My fourth biggest complaint about KRG was what that no one murdered Hideyasu Jonouchi after what Oren did to him.

I can see a bit of hatred towards Oren

By the end of the series, Oren and Zack were the only characters worth rooting for anymore :lol

You're forgetting Chucky, the true hero of Gaim.

Who could ever forget his heroism! Like the time he did... that thing you know? Personally I thought Rat might have had an even more compelling character arc though. Nearly brought me to tears.

Chucky was a girl :p

And YOU are forgetting the late, great Kurokage Trooper #37!

http://img09.deviantart.net/31d5/i/2...th-d7m0lxp.jpg

We'll always miss you man. :cry

Where's my Chucky Gaiden dammit!:lol

And Chucky gets the standard Peach Lockseed and FINALLY a Ryugen-type plate that isn't used by Bitchy Micchy.

I have a bit of hatred for those who intentionally assault me with shopping carts because I am not moving fast enough for them even though I am stuck in line just like that bastard.

I have an entire galaxy's worth of hate for that freak named Oren.

Which was Zack? Was he the boxer based one?

Chucky was cheese.

For me, Kouta was a refreshing character to follow. He wan't your typical Shonen idiot hero, but he wasn't the smartest person around and that was fine. He couldn't tell that his best friend wanted his head, but really why would anyone suspect their best friend of that? We know because we're the audience and we see the death-glares Micchy shoots his way whenever his back is turned, but for Kouta all gets to see is that his friend's going through some weird time.

Some people have given Kouta crap for not magically finding a way to save Kaito at the end, but if he did then he'd just end up copying the end of Blade, since they were both Overlords at that point and Kouta would just be an Orange Kenzaki then. Some people say that Kouta didn't develop much by the end, but what else would you describe starting off just wanting to get a job, and then finding yourself the least asshole-ish person trying to keep humanity from going extinct (well, least asshole-ish and strong, as Zack isn't an asshole). When Sid tries to break him down, he stand by his morals and tells him to fuck off. When Yggdrasil would rather take the easy way out (as Ryouma's attitude makes it clear that he could save more of humanity if he wanted to, but he doesn't), he calls them out on it and destroys their city nuke, survives their attempts on him, and does what he can to keep the city worth coming back to when it's evacuated. The only way I can see Kouta having not developed as a character is if you treating him becoming a god as just him finally getting a job, ignoring how changed and distant he is once he claims that fruit.

Having characters like Zack actually becoming important later down the line was nice and refreshing, compared to the DBZ style of writing many shows, animes, and comics sadly follow of introducing characters that just fill the background or where useful before the writer's new favorites stole the scene (Rock Lee being pushed onto the bench, the until recently benching of non-existent Wally West, etc.). I've seen tons of people hate on Kanon for being useless, but at least in the Gaim, while you may hate the dance theme and activities in the show, at least the side characters had something to do, rather than just exist and take up a bed in Takeru's home.

As much as I love Gaim, it's not at the top of my list, but it definitely deserves the love it gets. The tie-ins, Taisens, and crossovers can be a bit much, but not enough for me think badly of the show.

Played by Kaido from Faiz?

You know, I've seen plenty of people give Kouta crap for that, and for all the problems I have with him, I've gotta agree with you here. Sure, it can be frustrating as a viewer, but it makes sense he'd trust Micchi so much given he only sees him when he's explicitly putting up an act. It also reinforces Kouta's inherent goodness, making him look that much more heroic.

While it would be repetitive, there are worse endings to copy. It doesn't help that in a lot of ways, he already was Orange Kenzaki. They're both really nice, idealistic main characters in a show filled with less consistently heroic Riders, and both spend a fair bit of time talking about fighting fate, which is why it's extremely annoying that Kouta never really does manage to change that much, and never seems to acknowledge that he doesn't.

Kenzaki's idea of fighting fate is to punch what amounts to God in whatever qualifies as the face for a weird 2001 monolith thing, and refuse to kill someone who's become his friend because he believes Hajime has a right to live a normal, human life, even if he isn't human.

Kouta's idea of fighting fate is to listen to whatever a guy who's basically the Devil tells him to do, except for the part about destroying the existing world. So I guess at the very least, he got that part right. But it's more Sagara's fault for thinking he would go along with that part when Kouta makes it crystal clear early on the whole reason he wants the Fruit is to stop that.

See, that's exactly what I meant when I said the characters give the illusion of development. You're describing the situations Kouta finds himself in and how different they are, but you're not saying anything about his personality. He never learns anything or makes any significant growth. Sticking to your beliefs even when things look bleak would be a form of arc, but the problem with that is that Kouta actually gives up on those ideals rather frequently.

Consider how he spends like 5 episodes believing the Overlords can be talked to, and then (admittedly pretty correctly) decides it isn't happening and just sort of decides to kill them like any other Invess, without ever showing a hint of regret that things turned out the way they did. That attitude culminates in him killing Kaito, who's a lot less of a lost cause than someone like Demushu, and while he's clearly sad it happened, he once again doesn't really seem to feel like it could've turned out some other way, which seems blatantly against both his character and the message the show seems to want to convey.

As a counterpoint, consider how Micchi ends up redeeming himself. Kouta shows an unwavering belief that Micchi is ultimately a good person and can change, to the point of letting himself get stabbed clean through the stomach just to rip the Yomotsuheguri Lockseed off his belt before it kills him. It ends up being explicitly because of that faith in him that Micchi realizes what an idiot he's been and start to atone for his actions.

It's a touching scene, and it feels way more in line with the central themes of the show than the actual ending.

Funnily enough, I actually feel Gaim had some of the better crossover stuff. It's not great, but something like Kamen Rider War is a big improvement on stuff the first two Superhero War movies.

It's not a crossover, but I also think the Gaim movie was pretty solid, and showed Kouta in a really good light, compared to a lot of the show.

A lot of Gaim fans treat Urobuchi as the One True Writer, but I think whenever other writers were handling the characters, they did just as good a job.

Gaim has problems. I enjoyed Gaim, let me say that first off. It's enjoyable. But then it became all Gods and Monsters and everyone had these extreme super-powers to stop missiles and travel through time and ... Gaim became Kabuto but without Riders existing solely to give Gaim weapons and no other reason. No, wait, there was that to. Oh and one point the entire series becomes trying to capture the girl as a trophy before and after the mad scientist kills her because plot! ... Despite this I did enjoy it. I promise I did.

You did? Because I don't like Gaim and I think that post sounded overly negative. Gaim's side Riders all have like, arcs, and stuff. Not always well executed ones, but everyone except Marika has something to do for the whole show.

The only one in Kabuto who feels like they have any reason to be in the show past their first couple episodes is Sasword, and he dies with about 10 episodes left in the show. At least when Kouta uses other Riders' weapons, he isn't literally stealing them right out of their hands with a big sword he just magically willed into existence with no explanation in one episode.

Side-note: Poor Marika. Even putting aside the implied sexism of having the sole female Rider in your show spend most of her time licking the ground other characters walk on, she just feels like such a waste of a character.

I kind of feel like, even if the plot requires her to not be around for the final episodes, they could've done that in a way that doesn't involve her dying pointlessly. If they had her maybe grow over the course of the last couple episodes, they could've had her maybe stand up to Kaito with everyone else, and maybe while they're at it have Kaito kill her himself to make it clear how far he's gone, or something. Anything.

At the very least, they could've had her be just injured from the fall she takes, which A, makes more sense than her somehow dying from what shouldn't be that dangerous an explosion while transformed, and B, allows her to stay out of the action while also allowing her to survive. I would not have minded seeing her with the other side characters in the epilogue episode.

Pretty much who my favorites of the series are. Also I enjoyed Jonouchi as well at the end too. Well also Takatora was great till they threw him in limbo.

I have to agree with you it had great ideas in the beginning but evolved into a mess. I think the execution could have been a lot better. I find myself writing better endings to the show every time I talk about it with my brother.

After a certain point in Kabuto, it really started to feel like Gatack should've been the main character. Like, he grows, he learns, and he struggles like a main character should.

I feel that was deliberate though. Like, Tendou is the guy the show's named after, and he gets to save the day all the time, but for all intents and purposes, Kagami is the main character.

There are plenty of shows where the protagonist isn't the most important person in the world, or the series is named after someone else. Gattack may not get to be the big hero, but the show spends as much time with him as it does with Tendou, and they're very clearly designed to compliment one another as characters, even before Kagami becomes a Rider.

Yeah Kagami definitely feels like the main character and part of the time the only reason I watched the show. Though Tendou was something else.

Tendou doesn't have to grow; he's already perfect. :p

They did try to break him during the whole Dark Kabuto story but nope, same ol Tendou.
But back to the topic at hand, Gaim was awesome and if Gaim was a person and I was mayor I would give it the key to the city. I will admit those collabo eps were mostly horrid minus the ToQger special.

I have had several seasons I was interested in spoiled for me, even older ones I was in the process of watching, because of a lot of this forum's (and other's to be fair) aversion to just marking or hiding their spoilers. I'm sorry if I like to not know critical plot details or twists ahead of time and want to see the show unfold naturally and that it is such an inconvenience for you to properly use tags or add in a couple extra lines of text warning of potential spoilers.

It is just common fucking courtesy, is that so damn hard?

And it isn't as simple as "avoiding places where you'll see spoilers". I've seen spoilers in threads about the toys, such as (Ghost Spoilers) that Necrom becomes a good guy in the thread revealing his Figuart release (wow, it really was soooo hard to use that spoiler tag). A lot of people do have that attitude where they just assume things are common knowledge or just don't care about not ruining things for other people. Having some arbitrary 30-day cutoff point is bs. If you are going to give away plot details or twists, just use a damn spoiler tag no matter if it is going all the way back to the original Kamen Rider or the newest episode of Ghost.

Just curious, how long would you expect people to wait before something isn't considered a spoiler? Should new Kamen Rider fans expect people to put every plot development in Kuuga, Amazon, or Agito in spoiler tags? Fourze? OOO? I'm not trying to start an argument, but there has to be some statute of limitations on spoilers.

If it is a major plot point or twist or something? Then no, there doesn't need to be one. It's literally just being considerate. A lot of people jump into the fandom with no prior knowledge and they should expect to not have things spoiled for them. It takes literally no effort to tag something major like that.

And in a franchise that does have a wide variety of seasons, the majority of which are like their own standalone show, each with its own theme that may catch someone's interest at any random point in time, they should feel welcome and safe within the community to discuss or talk about things without worrying about something getting ruined for them.

I'm sorry, I just don't see the point of having to hide plot events for shows that aired years, sometimes decades ago. By that logic, no spoiler ever could be discussed outside of spoiler tags because someone in the future may start watching it. Recent shows? Sure. But, it shouldn't be beholden for everyone to protect potential fans from information that is ridiculously out of date. Walking on eggshells to avoid spoiling a show that possibly aired before the user was even born? That's kind of bonkers.

A lot of these shows weren't even available to English speaking viewers until the past few years, though.
There isn't a set time table or grace period for when something should be marked as a spoiler, it all boils down to the poster's call.

You just have to make a judgment call, but also keep in mind certain facts.
For example, Ohranger was available to others, subbed for, about 9 months, and now it's completely unavailable until it's release by Shout Factory later this year.
Using the prime counter argument, 9 months was plenty of time to watch the series in full, so theoretically it's fully justified to post every little event that goes on in it because the series aired 20 years ago, and the subs were available for 3/4 of a year.
But is it fair to the people who didn't download it before all the subs were swiftly taken down, and now have to rely on streaming sites of lower quality and dubious nature?

One has to post spoilers at their own discretion because there is no golden rule.

But it's not like the elements of the plot were completely unknown until the subs appeared. People may not have been able to experience it personally, but the information was still out there. I still think holding back spoilers for shows older than the person interested in them is crazy coddling. Twenty years is a long time.

Shockingly, I don't know what goes down in Ohranger. Here's the crazy revelation: I'm not going around and learning every little bit of info on a show I'm intending to watch.
I can't tell you a single thing about any 80's Sentai, despite them being around for 30 years. I can't tell you what happens in any Rider series released before Kuuga for much of the same reasons.

What you see as coddling, I see as a common courtesy. Not everyone wants to know how Kuuga, Blade, Liveman, Jetman, or Winspector ends before they actually reach the ending. To justify it with "It's been out for 20 years" is rather weak.

There's a difference between having a clear conversation about a series, preemptively telling anyone that, yes, spoilers are going to be around (This threat being about Gaim makes it obvious to anyone that hasn't seen Gaim that spoilers will be posted).

But because this forum basically has 2 threads to discuss all of Sentai and Rider is a different story. Out of the blue, a post that intricately details the ending of, say, Blade without warning can appear.
The translations for a lot of these series have not been readily available over the past decade. We're still waiting for Kamen Rider, the 40 year old show, to be fully translated, and as a result, the synopses for it is barren since they're often written by fans going off the translations as a result.
The show has been out for 40 years, and most pages on Kamen Rider's individual episodes are basically "We'll let you know when we finally learn."

You get thirty days period. After that you will have to get over it or avoid. Keep on about it, I will make it until the next episode comes on or one week which ever comes first.

As for it being hard, Rangerboard uses the software as here but they provide a button to click. Here they make you type it out, I am a lot more inclined to do it over at Rangerboard.

At the risk of straying the thread further off-topic, is it really that crazy?

As someone who's not at all averse to being spoiled, that seems like a narrow-minded viewpoint. I personally feel that if a story can't be enjoyed knowing the outcome, it probably isn't a very good story. I've seen lots of shows knowing tons of major plot details ahead of time, and I find it's more to fun to pick up on bits of foreshadowing you might not notice than it is to be in suspense all the time.

I actually had Blade's ending spoiled on this very forum while I was in the middle of watching it a couple years ago, and that didn't stop it from being the best ending a Kamen Rider show has ever had.

But that's the thing, I personally don't mind. New people are being born literally every day, and a lot of those people like to go into stuff they get interested in without knowing every little detail. It's not their fault they were born two decades too late, or that they'd never heard of it until a year ago.

I don't think it's too much to ask you type two words in brackets before mentioning that Darth Vader is Luke's dad, is all.

Sorry but, yes, I find the concept of hiding any potential spoilers for all eternity because someone might be born two decades from now who could potentially watch a show over-the-top. You're effectively asking to censor conversation for people who may not ever even exist. It's an absolutely ridiculous extension of the special snowflake mentality where we have to coddle everyone and make sure no one goes home without an award. There is a reasonable expectation to avoid spoiling others and that is perfectly understandable. Spoiler tagging all spoilers for everything ever in perpetuity is far from reasonable, in my opinion.

But that the problem, it's not censorship. Like, not at all. It's a tiny amount of extra work to be considerate to other people's perspectives. All anyone who wants to see the words you typed has to do is mouse over them.

Like this: You seem a little self-centered.

I'm guessing you could still read that, right?